Sarah Everard - Shocking murder

I read that earlier 😯 does this crazy woman think about what she is saying ? The maddest thing is she was actually being serious 😁
There was someone talking on the radio about how male attitudes to women have to change if we are to stop this. I’m certainly not going to belittle the horrific crimes that some men commit against women, but I also think it’s naive to think you can ‘stop’ something happening. Most men don’t think about attacking women, those that do aren’t stopped by length of prison sentence or ‘what society thinks’.
 
There was someone talking on the radio about how male attitudes to women have to change if we are to stop this. I’m certainly not going to belittle the horrific crimes that some men commit against women, but I also think it’s naive to think you can ‘stop’ something happening. Most men don’t think about attacking women, those that do aren’t stopped by length of prison sentence or ‘what society thinks’.
Something to think about the next time someone on here tells a joke belittling women, makes an offhand comment about a woman’s place etc or tells the avftt community how they’d love to ‘give ‘her’ one’.

at least no-one has said that about Sarah Everard. That’s something, I guess 😔
 
Unfortunately there are people in all walks, occupations etc who will commit crimes even, as in this dreadful case, murders in the hope/belief that they will get away with it.
Thankfully the majority of our police Forces eventually get the culprit, as in this case.
It's awful that any life should be snatched away like this poor woman.
I feel for her from the bottom of my heart.
 
Attitudes have changed massively towards women these last 50 years. Some good / some bad. Obviously it’s the bad traits that should be the target of concern and improvement through education from a young age.
 
Looks like the rozzer has tried to commit suicide now, rushed to hospital with serious head injuries.
 
Like every other story at the moment, the issue is fast becoming hysteria. Curfew on men after 6pm, woman told to be extra careful outside and given advice about when, where and what to carry, men told to learn how to behave etc.

To put it into perspective, in the year up to March 2020, 17% of all women killed were outside, 51% of men were killed outside.
 
You can’t legislate for psychopaths but the fact this copper had an allegation of indecent exposure (caught on CCTV) levelled at him, four days before the poor woman’s disappearance and nothing was done is a sad reflection of policing in this Country.

In fairness to the Police though they have been mad busy, they were probably stopping two different households travelling over 2 miles to get a Costa or breaking up some lads having a drink in their mates garage, you know the real hard hitting serious stuff. Be interesting how this all plays out, already the propaganda seems to be against men in general and not the police who have some real wrong-uns in their forces.

Don’t worry though people “he wasn’t on duty at the time”... pfffft.

How horrible for the woman and her family. Tragic.
 
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I think the police investigation into whatever happened in the incident prior to this poor girls murder is a separate issue to the one being levelled at men in general.
Correct, you cannot legislate for psychopaths. You cannot impose restrictions on all men because of the crimes of one or two.
These evil beings are anomalies of society, not the norm, and you can’t pre-empt their crimes by suppressing the activities of other men.
 
I'm afraid the whole thing is now being politicised, with the call for street vigils by 'Reclaim The Streets', and I feel for the family of this poor woman. Let her rest in peace and her family grieve in as normal a way as possible. I can't imagine what it is like for them and hope never to be in their terrible situation.
 
I think the police investigation into whatever happened in the incident prior to this poor girls murder is a separate issue to the one being levelled at men in general.
Correct, you cannot legislate for psychopaths. You cannot impose restrictions on all men because of the crimes of one or two.
These evil beings are anomalies of society, not the norm, and you can’t pre-empt their crimes by suppressing the activities of other men.
There will be a huge backlash against the police in London over this earlier indecency incident when it’s found that if they had acted quicker and arrested one of their own this tragedy wouldn’t have happened and this poor lady would still be with us.
 
Are there any Met officers who aren't bad apples? Seems to happen time and time again.

Not considering this case, when it comes to the police I like to ask the question like the old Spitting Image sketch, are there a few bad apples or is it a rotten orchard ?

Bad apple is nowhere near it when it comes to this chap.
 
Like every other story at the moment, the issue is fast becoming hysteria. Curfew on men after 6pm, woman told to be extra careful outside and given advice about when, where and what to carry, men told to learn how to behave etc.

To put it into perspective, in the year up to March 2020, 17% of all women killed were outside, 51% of men were killed outside.

51% of men probably weren't terrorised, battered and sexually assaulted while they were "outside". What on earth do you think that "statistic" proves?
 
I'm afraid the whole thing is now being politicised, with the call for street vigils by 'Reclaim The Streets', and I feel for the family of this poor woman. Let her rest in peace and her family grieve in as normal a way as possible. I can't imagine what it is like for them and hope never to be in their terrible situation.

Absolutely.

Without wishing to politicise it further myself, I am sick of folk saying women shouldn't go out on their own, women shouldn't do this, etc, etc.

It goes without saying that they should be careful but the bottom line is that they should be able to do what they want, whenever they want without having to worry about wrong 'uns and it's those wrong 'uns who are wrong every single time and not their victims.
 
Absolutely.

Without wishing to politicise it further myself, I am sick of folk saying women shouldn't go out on their own, women shouldn't do this, etc, etc.

It goes without saying that they should be careful but the bottom line is that they should be able to do what they want, whenever they want without having to worry about wrong 'uns and it's those wrong 'uns who are wrong every single time and not their victims.
When I was a student in the 70s there was the Reclaim the night movement whereby women marched to show they weren't going to be intimidated into not going out. You would have hoped society would have moved on by now.

Spot on with your comment on wrong uns.
 
We'll all be fine and dandy when men are banned from being out after 6pm, or will we?

Perhaps men should put on leads and not let alone.

Then, there is the problem of domestic violence, all houses should fitted with manacles and leg irons to keep we males in check.

Or, maybe that silly Baroness should be retired and put in a home for the gently confused.
 
You can't accommodate for nutters and oddballs, no amount of awareness raising or vigils will ever, ever stop attacks such as the one that sadly occurred.
This is simply the latest politicised "campaign" being launched off the back of an awful tragedy, and it certainly won't be the last.

The fact that all men are being targeted as potential aggressors is simply staggering.
 
We'll all be fine and dandy when men are banned from being out after 6pm, or will we?

Perhaps men should put on leads and not let alone.

Then, there is the problem of domestic violence, all houses should fitted with manacles and leg irons to keep we males in check.

Or, maybe that silly Baroness should be retired and put in a home for the gently confused.

Seems that this could become labour party policy: https://order-order.com/2021/03/12/watch-drakeford-considers-temporary-curfew-for-men/
 
You can't accommodate for nutters and oddballs, no amount of awareness raising or vigils will ever, ever stop attacks such as the one that sadly occurred.
This is simply the latest politicised "campaign" being launched off the back of an awful tragedy, and it certainly won't be the last.

The fact that all men are being targeted as potential aggressors is simply staggering.

It's the messaging that's at fault here, effectively pissing off decent people who are appalled by such horrific and depraved attacks and fully agree that the perpetrators should receive lengthy and punitive sentences. There's a similarity to some of the more direct 'agree or you're just as much to blame' messages linked to MeToo or BLM. It's not the case that I might think about committing such crimes, but then social education, common decency or thinking about my female relatives stops me; the thoughts never enter my head. As is the same with billions of men all over the world.

But there are some things that men can think about that would also help women feel more comfortable. If it's late at night (or dark) and you're walking closely to a woman on her own, could you cross the street to give her the space to know she's not being followed or harassed? I know I've been walking behind a woman and she's stopped and let me walk in front of her. Inwardly, I might have got a little offended by the insinuation, but if I stop being precious about it, I can understand that if i felt vulnerable in a situation I'd feel more relieved and at ease if people around me made it clear they are not a threat. Similar to wearing a mask to show respect for others (rather than to protect yourself) we could make decisions that ease someone's fears and anxieties rather then heighten them.
 
It's the messaging that's at fault here, effectively pissing off decent people who are appalled by such horrific and depraved attacks and fully agree that the perpetrators should receive lengthy and punitive sentences. There's a similarity to some of the more direct 'agree or you're just as much to blame' messages linked to MeToo or BLM. It's not the case that I might think about committing such crimes, but then social education, common decency or thinking about my female relatives stops me; the thoughts never enter my head. As is the same with billions of men all over the world.

But there are some things that men can think about that would also help women feel more comfortable. If it's late at night (or dark) and you're walking closely to a woman on her own, could you cross the street to give her the space to know she's not being followed or harassed? I know I've been walking behind a woman and she's stopped and let me walk in front of her. Inwardly, I might have got a little offended by the insinuation, but if I stop being precious about it, I can understand that if i felt vulnerable in a situation I'd feel more relieved and at ease if people around me made it clear they are not a threat. Similar to wearing a mask to show respect for others (rather than to protect yourself) we could make decisions that ease someone's fears and anxieties rather then heighten them.

Totally agree with your last paragraph, but fear not enough people give a toss about other people nowadays.
The ones that do probably already think as you suggest.
 
Totally agree with your last paragraph, but fear not enough people give a toss about other people nowadays.
The ones that do probably already think as you suggest.
I agree too with the point being made in the second paragraph, however, it will make women only feel safer about a situation that was never actually going to happen anyway, because the average bloke in the street is simply minding his own business and nipping to the shop for a pint of milk.
How much of the fear women feel comes from far more other factors than just men walking too close behind them (for example).
This very incident that has occured has made women feel even more unsafe which is fueling their terror.
This runs far deeper than asking men to think twice before doing something which in the eyes of 99.9% of men is purely innocent and yet is viewed as being threatening.


No amount of decent/normal/average blokes crossing the road to make a woman feel safer is going to stop the horrendous attacks that actually do happen.
 
I agree too with the point being made in the second paragraph, however, it will make women only feel safer about a situation that was never actually going to happen anyway, because the average bloke in the street is simply minding his own business and nipping to the shop for a pint of milk.
How much of the fear women feel comes from far more other factors than just men walking too close behind them (for example).
This very incident that has occured has made women feel even more unsafe which is fueling their terror.
This runs far deeper than asking men to think twice before doing something which in the eyes of 99.9% of men is purely innocent and yet is viewed as being threatening.


No amount of decent/normal/average blokes crossing the road to make a woman feel safer is going to stop the horrendous attacks that actually do happen.

No disagreement Finest, those who commit such crimes will still commit them. Same as knowing murder is wrong doesn't stop people from murdering. However, I would say to you that if you thought about the things I raised in the second paragraph, why wouldn't you do it, if you knew it put the other person at their ease? No reason not to, is there?
 
No disagreement Finest, those who commit such crimes will still commit them. Same as knowing murder is wrong doesn't stop people from murdering. However, I would say to you that if you thought about the things I raised in the second paragraph, why wouldn't you do it, if you knew it put the other person at their ease? No reason not to, is there?
No I do agree with that too, and if there is one good thing that comes out of this horrible situation it is that men do try and work to ease fears of women then it may be of the slightest of comfort to her loved ones.

My point, which I appreciate you have said you agree with, is that the changed behaviour of people like you, me and (hopefully) everyone else on this board still wouldn't have saved Sarah Everard.
 
No I do agree with that too, and if there is one good thing that comes out of this horrible situation it is that men do try and work to ease fears of women then it may be of the slightest of comfort to her loved ones.

My point, which I appreciate you have said you agree with, is that the changed behaviour of people like you, me and (hopefully) everyone else on this board still wouldn't have saved Sarah Everard.
Yep - and that's the point i was making with the first paragraph. Get the messaging wrong and those of us who are onside, immediately feel like we're being accused of being part of the problem. That's not a good way of building support.
 
I think the police investigation into whatever happened in the incident prior to this poor girls murder is a separate issue to the one being levelled at men in general.
Correct, you cannot legislate for psychopaths. You cannot impose restrictions on all men because of the crimes of one or two.
These evil beings are anomalies of society, not the norm, and you can’t pre-empt their crimes by suppressing the activities of other men.
My partner used to live in London and she was attacked twice by random men in London in daylight, busy road, people about and she constantly had men rubbing up against her on the tube trains and she says all her friends had the same happen. So it may not end up like it has for this poor girl but it is far more prevalent than most of you would imagine. Women should be able to walk around whenever they want to and so should men, but sadly, in this society there are a lot of men who think they can do what they want and that is just not right. So please don't think there is over reaction, there is a societal problem that needs to be addressed somehow.
 
When I was a student in the 70s there was the Reclaim the night movement whereby women marched to show they weren't going to be intimidated into not going out. You would have hoped society would have moved on by now.

Spot on with your comment on wrong uns.
I too was a student in the late 70s when we had the Yorkshire Ripper manhunt. And that went on for about five years until he was finally caught. Many women students formed support groups, protested and generally just looked after each other. A significant problem they thought though was the presence of some “creepy blokes” who would attach themselves to the womens’ groups ostensibly to “support”, so events did become women-only which was understandable for those times but somewhat irregular.

I can still recall the relief the night when he was caught, it was like a great release of held breath. Phew. And things returned to “normal” fairly soon after that. That is the difference here - this alleged killer was caught quickly. And we have to accept that is down to the modern surveillance society imposed with widespread CCTV and car number plate recognition. I now think that most detective work on street crime is done by watching CCTV tapes these days.
 
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What have I missed about this murder that has created such a large reaction that some people are seriously considering banning men off the streets at 6pm?

There were 241 women murdered in the UK in 2019, there is always a personal story and it's always desperately sad, but this has gone way more than that.

Is it because it is a police officer who appears to have done it?

I genuinely don't understand.
 
What have I missed about this murder that has created such a large reaction that some people are seriously considering banning men off the streets at 6pm?

There were 241 women murdered in the UK in 2019, there is always a personal story and it's always desperately sad, but this has gone way more than that.

Is it because it is a police officer who appears to have done it?

I genuinely don't understand.

Possibly because we haven't seen anything like it for quite a long time, partly a result of Covid, in fact I can't remember the last similar case.
 
Possibly because we haven't seen anything like it for quite a long time, partly a result of Covid, in fact I can't remember the last similar case.
Maybe.

I was wondering whether it's because she's pretty and white and blonde but even that wouldn't really create this level of public involvement.

Desperately sad.
 
Time for the death penalty and life with hard labour for the woman who aided and abetted whatever happens to their offspring they will have to deal with it
Every sympathy with the innocent victims family and friends
 
Time for the death penalty and life with hard labour for the woman who aided and abetted whatever happens to their offspring they will have to deal with it

We don't know what if any help she may have offered to the offender, nor if she was aware that an offence has been committed, for all we know she may have done nothing at all and is just an innocent party caught up in this.

Perhaps wait for the trial before passing the sentance.
 
Fair enough innocent till proved guilty but if proved guilty then death to the murdering scum and life with hard labour for her if she aided and abetted
By the way if one of yours had been murdered you would be happy to wait would you ?
 
He's been charged with her murder, tried to kill himself again and failed miserably. He has only been a Police Officer for just over 2 years, and it has to be asked how the fuck did he get the job he did on a specialist unit, he was barely out of his probation period. In the old days you had to cut your teeth as a Bobby on the beat for 2 years and then through to area car driver until you had about 6 years in the job and then you would be considered for a specialist role. Not any more, can't discriminate, everyone should have an equal chance, not that that would have stopped him. I thought he must have had a military background, he was in the territorial army so not a full time soldier.

So in 2 yeas he has been a flasher and now a kidnapper and murderer and god knows what else in his disguise as a police officer. It seems pretty clear why he joined the police and I can't believe he hasn't only just started these thoughts, he will have had them for years. He certainly seems to have slipped the net and they need to go over his recruitment process and background checks with a fine tooth comb.

I feel there will be more victims identified as the investigation continues. What a truly horrific human being.
 
Apparently he was in the Kent Police for about 6 years before he transferred to the Met.
He was also in the Civil Nuclear Constabulary, who are armed police, guarding Dungeness B nuclear power station. I must have walked past him a few times on my many visits on site.
 
You can’t stop living your life because you might be unfortunate enough to run into someone who means you harm. I’m a bloke and even I always keep aware of who’s around me when I’m out at night, it’s just common sense. Tragic as this Is, she’d still be alive if she hadn’t broken lockdown rules by visiting a friend, and she’d taken a taxi, instead of walking, in the dark, and across a dark common.
 
You can’t stop living your life because you might be unfortunate enough to run into someone who means you harm. I’m a bloke and even I always keep aware of who’s around me when I’m out at night, it’s just common sense. Tragic as this Is, she’d still be alive if she hadn’t broken lockdown rules by visiting a friend, and she’d taken a taxi, instead of walking, in the dark, and across a dark common.
Yes. It’s her fault.
 
Yes. It’s her fault.
Not what I’m saying, 999 times out of 1,000, she’d have been fine, this time she wasn’t. 999 times out of a1,000, I take care when I’m crossing the road, and the one time I don’t, I’ll probably be ok. It’s just unlucky she encountered this evil person. I stick by my points, she shouldn’t have been visiting and she could have found over ways of getting home.
 
You can’t stop living your life because you might be unfortunate enough to run into someone who means you harm. I’m a bloke and even I always keep aware of who’s around me when I’m out at night, it’s just common sense. Tragic as this Is, she’d still be alive if she hadn’t broken lockdown rules by visiting a friend, and she’d taken a taxi, instead of walking, in the dark, and across a dark common.
I think that’s a bit low Mates.
And even though it’s barely relevant how do you know her friend wasn’t her support group if she lived alone .
She shouldn’t have to get a taxi, and it looks like he may have lured her into his car, possibly under false pretences as he had just finished work and was more than likely in his uniform.
She would have expected to have been safer with a copper than a cabbie probably. Although clearly she wasn’t.
 
I’m not saying it’s her fault, I don’t know if her friend was in her support group, although I somehow doubt it. She chose to visit her friend in lockdown, if she hadn’t, she’d still be alive. The media have hyped this up, but don’t bother about the several other women and men who have been murdered since, apart from a nominal report.
 
I’m not saying it’s her fault, I don’t know if her friend was in her support group, although I somehow doubt it. She chose to visit her friend in lockdown, if she hadn’t, she’d still be alive. The media have hyped this up, but don’t bother about the several other women and men who have been murdered since, apart from a nominal report.
Pretty, middle class white woman in a part of London many in the media will think is safe and suburban. And the alleged perpetrator is in the Met. Not hard to see why it’s in the news more than other cases.

And you’re still indirectly blaming her for the situation. If she’d have followed lockdown rules she’d be alive. If she’d got a cab she’d be alive. We can use that sort of reasoning for any crime where there was an innocent victim who deserved better.
 
Pretty, middle class white woman in a part of London many in the media will think is safe and suburban. And the alleged perpetrator is in the Met. Not hard to see why it’s in the news more than other cases.

And you’re still indirectly blaming her for the situation. If she’d have followed lockdown rules she’d be alive. If she’d got a cab she’d be alive. We can use that sort of reasoning for any crime where there was an innocent victim who deserved better.
Agreed.
 
I see the Copper in custody has got 'head injuries' today.
Bet the bastard self inflicted, to try and get sympathy?
Or is he trying to blame the guards where he is kept.
He's a crafty devil, and as a serving Cop he knows exactly what he is doing.
 
Fair enough innocent till proved guilty but if proved guilty then death to the murdering scum and life with hard labour for her if she aided and abetted

You know that she's been bailed?


By the way if one of yours had been murdered you would be happy to wait would you ?

No, I'd want them put to death and I'd want it to be cruel and unusual, that's why it's probably a good idea that the victims family don't have a say in the process.
 
Bailed ? So that means she is innocent does it ?
That’s the problem the victims family don’t get a say in any offenders punishment which is a shame
 
I’m not saying it’s her fault, I don’t know if her friend was in her support group, although I somehow doubt it. She chose to visit her friend in lockdown, if she hadn’t, she’d still be alive. The media have hyped this up, but don’t bother about the several other women and men who have been murdered since, apart from a nominal report.
STOP DIGGING!!!!!!
 
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