Should Starmer resign?

Media is now suggesting that Starmer will make an announcement at 4pm today to the effect that if he receives a FPN he will resign.

A good counter attack and again puts the PM in a bad light. Johnson likely to receive another FPN before Starmer gets to know his fate.

Apparently Conservative ministers and MPs were told not to demand Starmer's resignation in the media today.
 
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Good politics is all this.

With the news KS will quit if a FPN is given, he has gained the high ground whatever the outcome.

If no FPN comes, he maintains resigning would be the right thing to do for any senior politician. How can BJ respond? ukraine is his only real hope.

If he does get a FPN he resigns and maintains politicians aren't above the law.

I suspect he knows that no FPN will be issued, but will gain a lot of people's support for the way he's approached the end game.
 
fcblackpool said:
Good politics is all this.

With the news KS will quit if a FPN is given, he has gained the high ground whatever the outcome.

If no FPN comes, he maintains resigning would be the right thing to do for any senior politician. How can BJ respond? ukraine is his only real hope.

If he does get a FPN he resigns and maintains politicians aren't above the law.

I suspect he knows that no FPN will be issued, but will gain a lot of people's support for the way he's approached the end game.
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He is just rolling the dice knowing he is in a corner!!
 
fcblackpool said:
Good politics is all this.

With the news KS will quit if a FPN is given, he has gained the high ground whatever the outcome.

If no FPN comes, he maintains resigning would be the right thing to do for any senior politician. How can BJ respond? ukraine is his only real hope.

If he does get a FPN he resigns and maintains politicians aren't above the law.

I suspect he knows that no FPN will be issued, but will gain a lot of people's support for the way he's approached the end game.
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It's interesting. The Conservatives along with their servile journalists have been banging away at this story for the last few months. They finally got some traction with it and for a short while had Starmer on the ropes.
However Starmer has now, in all likelihood enhanced his reputation and has highlighted the difference between himself and the PM.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
It's interesting. The Conservatives along with their servile journalists have been banging away at this story for the last few months. They finally got some traction with it and for a short while had Starmer on the ropes.
However Starmer has now, in all likelihood enhanced his reputation and has highlighted the difference between himself and the PM.
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The Mail editor must be looking up the stash of Megan stories they have for tomorrows front page.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
There is no real grey area.
If he doesn't get a FPN then he hasn't done anything wrong. Case closed.
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@fcblackpool as well as I don't know how the multiple quote works.

That's not correct though.

The police didn't fine everyone in breach - for example they didn't fine Dominic Cummings.

They investigated the trip, concluding there may have been a "minor breach", but did not take any further action.

That's the grey area I am talking about.
 
Starmer is taking a bit of a risk, a high stakes gamble. Would you trust the Chief Constable of the Durham constabulary with your career? The same Durham constabulary which refused to issue a FPN to Cummings for his 200 mile drive while suffering with Covid and his ā€œeyesight testā€ drive to Barnard Castle on his wifeā€™s birthday. No doubt all under instruction from No.10 ?

But if they do clear him, as they did a year ago, and fairness would seem to indicate they should then Starmerā€™s tank is sitting on Bozoā€™s front lawn (inappropriate pun intended).

A takeaway curry with one small bottle of beer (ā€œquaffedā€ according to the Sun !) with fellow workers after a long dayā€™s campaigning in Hartlepool does not compare with the multiple piss-up parties held in No.10, with drunks breaking a childā€™s swing and falling into flower beds, or crowded into the top floor flat dancing to ABBA. 50 FPNs have already been issued to No.10 people, so guilty as proven. The photos exist and we will all get to see them in due course, I expect.

Itā€™s interesting from the police perspective too. Do they interfere in politics by changing their mind and issuing the FPN, now knowing it will lead to the resignation of the Leader of HMQā€™s Loyal Opposition ? I am sure some police would love to. But how do they explain their U-turn after last yearā€™s decision and their past justification of not penalising ā€œhistoric offencesā€ (including Cummings).

Might the police be seen to be caving in to Bozo and Toriesā€™ wishes as fomented by the tabloid press ? The tabloid press really are the dregs of the media being lickspittles to the hard right Tory MPā€™s faction, and the police would lose their reputation for impartiality.

As for the delay for Durham policeā€™s announcement until after the local elections, isnā€™t that the reason why the Met has been stringing out their investigations into further fines to Bozo, Carrie and their staff in No.10 ?
 
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seasideone said:
@fcblackpool as well as I don't know how the multiple quote works.

That's not correct though.

The police didn't fine everyone in breach - for example they didn't fine Dominic Cummings.

They investigated the trip, concluding there may have been a "minor breach", but did not take any further action.

That's the grey area I am talking about.
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Much harder to spin the grey area (if exists) than the yes or no.

I don't know what form the police will issue a FPN, or rather say there isn't a need for one. Will they hand over the final documents from the investigation to KS? If they do and he and others were shown to be busy other than the time around the photos then I'm sure he'll tell us.
 
I don't know who is more deluded. Keith for thinking his shit doesn't stink or the incredibly naive individuals who agree.
 
fcblackpool said:
Much harder to spin the grey area (if exists) than the yes or no.

I don't know what form the police will issue a FPN, or rather say there isn't a need for one. Will they hand over the final documents from the investigation to KS? If they do and he and others were shown to be busy other than the time around the photos then I'm sure he'll tell us.
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I don't know why but I read that in the voice of Rod Roddy from the hilarious comedy Soap!

"Confused? You won't be, after this week's episode of...Soap."

If it comes back grey he has major issues!
 
seasideone said:
I don't know why but I read that in the voice of Rod Roddy from the hilarious comedy Soap!

"Confused? You won't be, after this week's episode of...Soap."

If it comes back grey he has major issues!
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I can only see the police coming back and saying they were unable to access all the information so had no choice but not to give a FPN as something that could be grey. But is that in their remit?

Hopefully we'll find out soon either way.

How the tories respond will be interesting.
 
We are all overlooking the one salient point. Starmerā€™s call for Bozo to resign is totally based upon the accusation that Bozo knowingly lied to the House of Commons at the Dispatch Box (several times) and so has broken the ministerial code. The FPN is just the policeā€™s considered evidence that he lied. Starmer has not misled the Commons at any point.
 
fcblackpool said:
I can only see the police coming back and saying they were unable to access all the information so had no choice but not to give a FPN as something that could be grey. But is that in their remit?

Hopefully we'll find out soon either way.

How the tories respond will be interesting.
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Who knows - but as you say it will be interesting šŸ‘
 
I cant See the Met police giving him a FPN. They are the wokest of woke these days. Well played Keith, massive pressure on the police.
 
seasideone said:
It's the grey area of no FPN but the police saying some breach, which could back fire here.
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The grey area of what the Mail prints, no basis in law, do you mean? Unlike the FPNs the PM will undoubtedly have, never mind the outcome of the Sue Grey report which won't have the same balance of proof required in law, but equally damning.
 
Not sure what the Met police have got to do with this issue, but, anyway, an honourable man vs an incompetent lying tosspot? I know who I would prefer as PM!
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I think it was in the bit about the loaves and fishes and went a bit like ā€œAnd lo, after the miracle Jesus called upon his friend Tommy Two Chariots to distribute the bounty to all those present. And Tommy did complyā€.
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Doubting Thomas indeed.
 
IF he's found guilty and fined, it looks like he will have been hoisted by his own petard.


A bit naĆÆve for such an intelligent man!
 
If Starmer goes, Burnham must replace him. He's got a bit of energy. He can talk off the cuff. He has a bit of a personality.

Starmer is a minister not a leader. Nowt particularly against Starmer but he's trying to do a Blair tribute act without having the charisma of Blair.
 
It's a bold strategy by Starmer and puts a lot of political pressure on the Durham police. In fact, I would say it's almost impossible for them to issue a FPN knowing the outcome. I suspect if the PM had said the same thing the Met would also have found a way out.

I'm just not sure the public is that bothered about 'Partygate' or Starmer's actions. The election results of last week seemed to bear that out and it's not obvious that this is the hill Starmer needs to die on. It's also seems that those who encourage him to die on his sword are those who might just give him a gentle push.

High risk strategy. But that can come with high-risk reward so maybe he's got this one right.
 
I
Kip said:
It's a bold strategy by Starmer and puts a lot of political pressure on the Durham police. In fact, I would say it's almost impossible for them to issue a FPN knowing the outcome. I suspect if the PM had said the same thing the Met would also have found a way out.

I'm just not sure the public is that bothered about 'Partygate' or Starmer's actions. The election results of last week seemed to bear that out and it's not obvious that this is the hill Starmer needs to die on. It's also seems that those who encourage him to die on his sword are those who might just give him a gentle push.

High risk strategy. But that can come with high-risk reward so maybe he's got this one right.
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Kip said:
It's a bold strategy by Starmer and puts a lot of political pressure on the Durham police. In fact, I would say it's almost impossible for them to issue a FPN knowing the outcome. I suspect if the PM had said the same thing the Met would also have found a way out.

I'm just not sure the public is that bothered about 'Partygate' or Starmer's actions. The election results of last week seemed to bear that out and it's not obvious that this is the hill Starmer needs to die on. It's also seems that those who encourage him to die on his sword are those who might just give him a gentle push.

High risk strategy. But that can come with high-risk reward so maybe he's got this one right.
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I literally couldn't give a fuck.

Cost of living, cost of transport, state of NHS, underfunding of education,widening gap between rich and poor, excess profits of energy companies etc etc etc.

Labour are doing exactly what the democrats did with trump. Picking a piss weak 'reasonable' figure and hoping that they can trip up the 'nasty' opposition instead of really engaging with the issues.

I have absolutely no idea what Labour's stance is on anything other than saying Boris is a jolly terrible sort.
 
This could play right into Labours hands, I wonder if they want Keith out as heā€™s useless.
 
td53 said:
I


I literally couldn't give a fuck.

Cost of living, cost of transport, state of NHS, underfunding of education,widening gap between rich and poor, excess profits of energy companies etc etc etc.

Labour are doing exactly what the democrats did with trump. Picking a piss weak 'reasonable' figure and hoping that they can trip up the 'nasty' opposition instead of really engaging with the issues.

I have absolutely no idea what Labour's stance is on anything other than saying Boris is a jolly terrible sort.
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It all seems a bit 'Westminster Bubble' to me.

I know I followed the lockdowns until the moment I didn't want to and then I didn't give it a second thought so I'm in no position to demand anything off anybody. I assume all those talking about the 'moral high ground' on here were scrupulous in their lockdown activity.

If anything, both Johnson's and Starmer's problems show up the rules for the dog's dinner they were. Rather than endless political point-scoring, a cross-party declaration to never govern like this ever again might go down better.
 
Wizaard said:
The grey area of what the Mail prints, no basis in law, do you mean? Unlike the FPNs the PM will undoubtedly have, never mind the outcome of the Sue Grey report which won't have the same balance of proof required in law, but equally damning.
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It's not about the mail, Sue Grey or the Torys for that matter / and for what it's worth I don't think Boris should resign, he should be fired, taken to the tower (not Blackpool), found guilty of treason and then dealt with accordingly.

There are grey areas in this - just look at the findings of the Dominic Cummings trip.

If Durham police come back with the same as they did with that - Kier is in a very grey area.
 
southshorepool said:
He's said he'll resign if given a FPN. What more do you want him to do?
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Indeed.

Too many people post about politics backwards. By which I mean, they start with the answer that they want, and then perform extraordinary mental gymnastics to make the facts fit their chosen narrative.

Starmer is indeed taking a very big personal risk. But in doing so he is calling the Durham Police's bluff and staking a claim for the moral high ground.

If he does pay for this with his job, at least he will have the satisfaction of making it very plain what an unprincipled charlatan we have as Prime Minister. If he doesn't, he gives the Tory backbenchers a template to follow when they are forced to judge their own man when the inevitable further fines for breach come rolling in.

They must hoist petards differently these days.
 
Kip said:
It all seems a bit 'Westminster Bubble' to me.

I know I followed the lockdowns until the moment I didn't want to and then I didn't give it a second thought so I'm in no position to demand anything off anybody. I assume all those talking about the 'moral high ground' on here were scrupulous in their lockdown activity.

If anything, both Johnson's and Starmer's problems show up the rules for the dog's dinner they were. Rather than endless political point-scoring, a cross-party declaration to never govern like this ever again might go down better.
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I was scrupulous but only because I don't like people.
 
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You donā€™t ā€œhoistā€ a petard; itā€™s not like a flag.

Itā€™s an explosive charge designed to crack castle walls, with a very short fuse. A short fuse because, when the attackers retreated from the lit fuse, the defenders used to jump out and try to defuse it and spike it. So the besiegers shortened the fuse as far as they dare, and occasionally went too far. Hence, ā€œhoist with his own petardā€ (Hamlet, Act 3 Scene 4) i.e. blown up. But I guess you knew that.
 
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