Sod Harry's Book - Read this!

[1966_and_all_that]

My wife was copied into this statement, which was posted on Facebook anonymously by an A&E doctor:

"Im writing this because I’m angry. Actually more than that, I’m fu*king livid.
I’m an A&E reg with 9+ years experience in A&E both here and overseas. This morning was the first time EVER that I cried in my car after a shift.
I was on nights over this New Years period, but New Year was not the issue, every shift is like this now.
Where 5 years ago we had 50 patients in the department on handover at night, we now have 180. It used to be around 20 patients to see with a 1-2 hour wait for clinician, it’s now 60-70 with a 10 hour wait.
People used to lose their minds if patients were coming up to 4 hour breaches. Last night 60% of the patients in A&E had been there for more than 12 hours, some for more than 40. Many I saw the night before, still in the same place when I came on.
No triage or obs after 2 hours of arrival, no bloods or ECGs or gas for 4 hours. Regularly finding people in the waiting room after 4 hours with initial gases showing hyperkalamia or severe acidosis or hypoglycaemia.
87 year olds coming in after falls sitting on chairs for 18 hours. Other elderly patients lying in their own urine for hours because there’s no staff, or even room to change them into something dry. As the reg in charge of the shift, Ive had (on multiple occasions) to help the sole nurse in the area change patients by holding a sheet around the bed because we have to do it in the middle of a corridor. People lying on the floor because there’s no chairs left, trolleys parked literally wherever we can put them.

"Things have been getting even worse for the last 3 months. 5 weeks I came home raging to my wife that people are sitting in their own piss for hours and it’s so inhumane. Now we’ve got to the point where people are actually dying. People who’ve been in A&E for 2-3 days,
The media and public might blame the A&E nurses and doctors for this, but honestly what the fu*k are we meant to do with 180 people in a department built for 50. With 8 nurses rather than the MINIMUM staffing of 12. 1 or 2 nurses per area, giving meds, doing obs, trying to provide basic cares to 25-30 people, an absolute impossibility. And there’s less nurses every week, because honestly why would you put yourself through this day after day?
Resus patients are quickly assessed and stepped down to make room for the next pre-alert, going to the area with those same poor nurses, already overstretched, now inheriting an severely unwell patient.

"We need to accept the truth, the NHS isn’t breaking, it’s broken. And the same bastards who broke it are doing reality TV shows and writing books about how they saved the NHS whilst refusing to increase nursing pay. We try and shovel shit with spoons whilst they pour it in with dump trucks
The NHS as we knew it is dead, and it breaks my heart, because it’s a beautiful system. It shouldn’t be like this, and those of us who have been around for longer than 5 years know it wasn’t always like this.
The public have no idea, they don’t really know how dangerous this all is. When they come in they’re horrified, but most of the population don’t know how bad it is. This could be their mum on a trolley for 17 hours, or their wife or son or daughter.
I genuinely feel it’s now our responsibility to speak out. We don’t for fear that it will make our hospital look bad or harm our careers. But it’s not a hospital problem, it’s a national problem, and it’s a problem brought about by the politics of the people in power.
We need to shine a light on what they’ve done, make the public so angry that they demand a change. Massive recruitment of nurses through a proper wage/paid uni/free parking/free Nando’s if that’s what it takes would be a start.

"If anyone has any idea how we could coordinate some kind of campaign to show the state of emergency departments in the UK right now please write a response, because I can’t work in this much longer, and more importantly I’m not sure the patients can survive it."

 

[glasshalffull]

My wife was copied into this statement, which was posted on Facebook anonymously by an A&E doctor:

"Im writing this because I’m angry. Actually more than that, I’m fu*king livid.
I’m an A&E reg with 9+ years experience in A&E both here and overseas. This morning was the first time EVER that I cried in my car after a shift.
I was on nights over this New Years period, but New Year was not the issue, every shift is like this now.
Where 5 years ago we had 50 patients in the department on handover at night, we now have 180. It used to be around 20 patients to see with a 1-2 hour wait for clinician, it’s now 60-70 with a 10 hour wait.
People used to lose their minds if patients were coming up to 4 hour breaches. Last night 60% of the patients in A&E had been there for more than 12 hours, some for more than 40. Many I saw the night before, still in the same place when I came on.
No triage or obs after 2 hours of arrival, no bloods or ECGs or gas for 4 hours. Regularly finding people in the waiting room after 4 hours with initial gases showing hyperkalamia or severe acidosis or hypoglycaemia.
87 year olds coming in after falls sitting on chairs for 18 hours. Other elderly patients lying in their own urine for hours because there’s no staff, or even room to change them into something dry. As the reg in charge of the shift, Ive had (on multiple occasions) to help the sole nurse in the area change patients by holding a sheet around the bed because we have to do it in the middle of a corridor. People lying on the floor because there’s no chairs left, trolleys parked literally wherever we can put them.

"Things have been getting even worse for the last 3 months. 5 weeks I came home raging to my wife that people are sitting in their own piss for hours and it’s so inhumane. Now we’ve got to the point where people are actually dying. People who’ve been in A&E for 2-3 days,
The media and public might blame the A&E nurses and doctors for this, but honestly what the fu*k are we meant to do with 180 people in a department built for 50. With 8 nurses rather than the MINIMUM staffing of 12. 1 or 2 nurses per area, giving meds, doing obs, trying to provide basic cares to 25-30 people, an absolute impossibility. And there’s less nurses every week, because honestly why would you put yourself through this day after day?
Resus patients are quickly assessed and stepped down to make room for the next pre-alert, going to the area with those same poor nurses, already overstretched, now inheriting an severely unwell patient.

"We need to accept the truth, the NHS isn’t breaking, it’s broken. And the same bastards who broke it are doing reality TV shows and writing books about how they saved the NHS whilst refusing to increase nursing pay. We try and shovel shit with spoons whilst they pour it in with dump trucks
The NHS as we knew it is dead, and it breaks my heart, because it’s a beautiful system. It shouldn’t be like this, and those of us who have been around for longer than 5 years know it wasn’t always like this.
The public have no idea, they don’t really know how dangerous this all is. When they come in they’re horrified, but most of the population don’t know how bad it is. This could be their mum on a trolley for 17 hours, or their wife or son or daughter.
I genuinely feel it’s now our responsibility to speak out. We don’t for fear that it will make our hospital look bad or harm our careers. But it’s not a hospital problem, it’s a national problem, and it’s a problem brought about by the politics of the people in power.
We need to shine a light on what they’ve done, make the public so angry that they demand a change. Massive recruitment of nurses through a proper wage/paid uni/free parking/free Nando’s if that’s what it takes would be a start.

"If anyone has any idea how we could coordinate some kind of campaign to show the state of emergency departments in the UK right now please write a response, because I can’t work in this much longer, and more importantly I’m not sure the patients can survive it."

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

I don’t want to be a ‘’Contrary Mary’, but ‘Facebook’ and ‘Anonymous’ ? My bullshit detector alarm is already ringing in the background!!

To my mind this is more likely to be a planted and ‘made up’ story (albeit with truth thrown in), but likely designed Toni fluency public opinion and pressurise the government and influence the outcome of pay talks!!

Of course, both sides will be at the same thing, but it’s important to be aware and maybe not buy too heavily into the ‘personal’ accounts.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

I don’t want to be a ‘’Contrary Mary’, but ‘Facebook’ and ‘Anonymous’ ? My bullshit detector alarm is already ringing in the background!!

To my mind this is more likely to be a planted and ‘made up’ story (albeit with truth thrown in), but likely designed Toni fluency public opinion and pressurise the government and influence the outcome of pay talks!!

Of course, both sides will be at the same thing, but it’s important to be aware and maybe not buy too heavily into the ‘personal’ accounts.

Your comments are noted.

 

[CAGU]

I wouldn’t have thought it was too far from the truth having spent much of the Christmas period in A & E with my wife and daughter.
This was at Addenbrookes, one of the top hospitals in the UK and there was a long queue outside the entrance to A & E.
It was 7 hours before my wife ( severe stomach pains) was sent home with advise to take codine and go to bed with a hot water bottle. That doesn’t sound too long compared with other hospitals.
The poor NHS staff are unfortunately chasing their tails and I don’t really know how they stay so positive.

 

[Wizaard]

I don’t want to be a ‘’Contrary Mary’, but ‘Facebook’ and ‘Anonymous’ ? My bullshit detector alarm is already ringing in the background!!

To my mind this is more likely to be a planted and ‘made up’ story (albeit with truth thrown in), but likely designed Toni fluency public opinion and pressurise the government and influence the outcome of pay talks!!

Of course, both sides will be at the same thing, but it’s important to be aware and maybe not buy too heavily into the ‘personal’ accounts.

While I fully sympathise with the comments, I'm also conscious that Facebook is full of robots planting influential stuff on both sides. I've seen plenty of stuff saying that nurses sit about drinking tea all day, chatting.

 

[Ollygon]

We should all have faith in our Government.

Our great Prime Minister is registered with a GP, and he's fully aware what's going on.

It's all the fault of those bolshie nurses and paramedics.

 

[Archibald Knox]

If you have doubts, read George Monbiot, who has at least researched thoroughly all the facts and figures he quotes. Monbiot does not make things up. This Government, since the Tories took over in 2010, have eliminated the resources the NHS and Community Social Care needs. And the Lib Dems were complicit in the coalition years.

The damage the austerity cuts have made has accumulated over years and now we have reached a tipping point due to staff leaving and recruiting falling. Covid was simply the last burden that collapsed a fragile system. Please be bothered to read it, it should shock you, if you at all have a conscience.
———————————————————————

“You have to see it to believe it. A few days after Christmas, I hit my head on a scaffolding bolt. There was lots of blood and pain down the right side of my face and into my neck. I thought I could live with it, but the following day I noticed a black floater in my right eye. When, after several hours, it had failed to clear, I phoned 111. They told me to travel immediately to the emergency department at my local hospital. They booked me in for 9pm, my expected arrival time.

I naively imagined I would be seen then. But when I arrived, there were 16 ambulances waiting to offload their patients. The waiting room was a vision of hell. All the chairs were occupied. Sick people leaned against the walls. Many of the patients, from babies to the extremely aged, looked dangerously unwell. And yet, for all of us, the wait went on and on.

I was seen by a doctor at 3am. During those six hours, I witnessed two things that distressed me more than my own injury. A man with what appeared to be cardiac symptoms collapsed on to the floor, possibly from a heart attack. A toddler was screaming “it hurts, it hurts!” for almost three hours without a break. It was devastating to hear.

When I was called by a nurse, halfway through my wait, I asked whether this was an especially busy night. “Oh no,” she told me, “this is quite a quiet one. Most nights recently have been worse.” Nothing I saw was the fault of the staff, who were working at a frantic pace to manage an impossible load. They looked exhausted. What I witnessed were the extraordinary but now normal effects of 13 years of austerity. Hospitals across the country appear to be approaching a tipping point.

Last week I spoke to an accident and emergency consultant at a London teaching hospital. She told me that several of the nurses there are now dependent on food banks. Junior doctors with massive student debts are paid £14 an hour. Yet every day they must carry unbearable loads and make morally corrosive decisions, as they decide whom to prioritise among people with immediate needs. Very long waits ensure that “frustrated and frightened patients are being seen by exhausted, demoralised health workers”. Verbal and physical aggression is commonplace. Unsurprisingly, staff are leaving in droves, and she can’t fill the vacant places.

There must come a point at which those who remain can no longer cope, and will be forced out as the mental, physical and moral pressure becomes too great. What happens then? Don’t ask the government. It denies the very existence of the crisis.

A recent study suggests that the death rate rises by 8% among people who have to wait more than six hours for transfer from emergency departments. One estimate suggests that delays in emergency care are killing between 300 and 500 people a week in England. This is to say nothing of the millions of lost hours and the infections circulating in tightly packed waiting rooms. The government’s NHS “savings” are the mother of all false economies.

With one breath, the government claims to have vanquished Covid so effectively that it no longer needs to publish the infection rate. With the next, it blames the Covid pandemic for the pressure on the NHS. While it’s true that Covid and flu are aggravating factors, the real cause runs much deeper: years of systemic underfunding.

The cumulative NHS funding gap since 2010 is more than £200bn. What this means, as the recent book NHS Under Siege by John Lister and Jacky Davis explains, is the difference between the money the service would have received if funding levels prior to 2010 had been sustained, and the money it has received since. For all New Labour’s flaws, it followed the globally accepted rule that to keep pace with an ageing population and technological change a modern health system requires an annual 4% real terms increase in funding. When the Tories reject the idea of “endlessly putting in more and more money”, they reject the idea of sustaining a functional service.

Since 2010, almost 9,000 general and acute beds have been lost in England. Of these, 5,000 were closed in March 2020 for the sake of social distancing and infection control. They have never reopened, because the NHS does not have the money required to reorganise its buildings. While the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) average is five beds per 1,000 people, the UK has 2.4. In September 2021, the Royal College of Emergency Medicine warned that the NHS had a deficit of 15,000 beds for emergency care. But nothing was done.

The beds crisis is compounded by a parallel disaster: the privatisation and defunding of social care that began under the Tories in the 1990s. Because the social care system is now in permanent crisis, lacking funding, staff and places, an average of 13,000 NHS beds are occupied by patients who could otherwise leave.

Amid all the reorganisations, deorganisations, swerves and U-turns, there have been two consistent policies across the past 13 years: underfunding of the NHS and overfunding of the private sector.

In the same month that the government closed 5,000 NHS beds, it block-booked all 8,000 beds in England’s private hospitals, and covered their entire operating costs. In return, these hospitals were required to do … nothing. It was free money. Rather than relieving the pandemic pressure, the 187 private hospitals treated, between them, a grand total of eight Covid patients a day. And, perhaps because they were now being paid merely for existing, they greatly reduced the other NHS-funded procedures they handled.

In 2021, through a scarcely noticed policy that seems to me just as scandalous as its corrupt PPE deals, the government extended these payments for doing nothing for a further four years, with a new “framework contract” for private hospitals. The expected cost is £10bn.

Even when they do treat patients, transferring NHS services to private hospitals does not increase capacity. It diverts the money that would have been spent in the public sector to a less efficient and more costly service. Private hospitals don’t train their own doctors and nurses. They cannot offer more services without sucking staff out of the NHS.

The NHS is bleeding out in the government’s waiting room, hoping for a call that never comes.”

A few hours as a patient in A&E confirmed it to me – the Tories are bleeding out the NHS | George Monbiot

During my time at a local hospital, I witnessed the devastation of 13 years of government underfunding of emergency care, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot

www.theguardian.com

For Christ’s sake, we need a general election now.
And bring the big red bus back! That absolute whopper of a lie of an extra £350 million per week to the NHS must be shoved back down their throats.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

If you have doubts, read George Monbiot, who has at least researched thoroughly all the facts and figures he quotes. Monbiot does not make things up. This Government, since the Tories took over in 2010, have eliminated the resources the NHS and Community Social Care needs. And the Lib Dems were complicit in the coalition years.

The damage the austerity cuts have made have accumulated over years and now we have reached a tipping point due to staff leaving and recruiting falling. Covid was simply the last burden that collapsed a fragile system. Please be bothered to read it, it should shock you, if you at all have a conscience.
———————————————————————

“You have to see it to believe it. A few days after Christmas, I hit my head on a scaffolding bolt. There was lots of blood and pain down the right side of my face and into my neck. I thought I could live with it, but the following day I noticed a black floater in my right eye. When, after several hours, it had failed to clear, I phoned 111. They told me to travel immediately to the emergency department at my local hospital. They booked me in for 9pm, my expected arrival time.

I naively imagined I would be seen then. But when I arrived, there were 16 ambulances waiting to offload their patients. The waiting room was a vision of hell. All the chairs were occupied. Sick people leaned against the walls. Many of the patients, from babies to the extremely aged, looked dangerously unwell. And yet, for all of us, the wait went on and on.

I was seen by a doctor at 3am. During those six hours, I witnessed two things that distressed me more than my own injury. A man with what appeared to be cardiac symptoms collapsed on to the floor, possibly from a heart attack. A toddler was screaming “it hurts, it hurts!” for almost three hours without a break. It was devastating to hear.

When I was called by a nurse, halfway through my wait, I asked whether this was an especially busy night. “Oh no,” she told me, “this is quite a quiet one. Most nights recently have been worse.” Nothing I saw was the fault of the staff, who were working at a frantic pace to manage an impossible load. They looked exhausted. What I witnessed were the extraordinary but now normal effects of 13 years of austerity. Hospitals across the country appear to be approaching a tipping point.

Last week I spoke to an accident and emergency consultant at a London teaching hospital. She told me that several of the nurses there are now dependent on food banks. Junior doctors with massive student debts are paid £14 an hour. Yet every day they must carry unbearable loads and make morally corrosive decisions, as they decide whom to prioritise among people with immediate needs. Very long waits ensure that “frustrated and frightened patients are being seen by exhausted, demoralised health workers”. Verbal and physical aggression is commonplace. Unsurprisingly, staff are leaving in droves, and she can’t fill the vacant places.

There must come a point at which those who remain can no longer cope, and will be forced out as the mental, physical and moral pressure becomes too great. What happens then? Don’t ask the government. It denies the very existence of the crisis.

A recent study suggests that the death rate rises by 8% among people who have to wait more than six hours for transfer from emergency departments. One estimate suggests that delays in emergency care are killing between 300 and 500 people a week in England. This is to say nothing of the millions of lost hours and the infections circulating in tightly packed waiting rooms. The government’s NHS “savings” are the mother of all false economies.

With one breath, the government claims to have vanquished Covid so effectively that it no longer needs to publish the infection rate. With the next, it blames the Covid pandemic for the pressure on the NHS. While it’s true that Covid and flu are aggravating factors, the real cause runs much deeper: years of systemic underfunding.

The cumulative NHS funding gap since 2010 is more than £200bn. What this means, as the recent book NHS Under Siege by John Lister and Jacky Davis explains, is the difference between the money the service would have received if funding levels prior to 2010 had been sustained, and the money it has received since. For all New Labour’s flaws, it followed the globally accepted rule that to keep pace with an ageing population and technological change a modern health system requires an annual 4% real terms increase in funding. When the Tories reject the idea of “endlessly putting in more and more money”, they reject the idea of sustaining a functional service.

Since 2010, almost 9,000 general and acute beds have been lost in England. Of these, 5,000 were closed in March 2020 for the sake of social distancing and infection control. They have never reopened, because the NHS does not have the money required to reorganise its buildings. While the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) average is five beds per 1,000 people, the UK has 2.4. In September 2021, the Royal College of Emergency Medicine warned that the NHS had a deficit of 15,000 beds for emergency care. But nothing was done.

The beds crisis is compounded by a parallel disaster: the privatisation and defunding of social care that began under the Tories in the 1990s. Because the social care system is now in permanent crisis, lacking funding, staff and places, an average of 13,000 NHS beds are occupied by patients who could otherwise leave.

Amid all the reorganisations, deorganisations, swerves and U-turns, there have been two consistent policies across the past 13 years: underfunding of the NHS and overfunding of the private sector.

In the same month that the government closed 5,000 NHS beds, it block-booked all 8,000 beds in England’s private hospitals, and covered their entire operating costs. In return, these hospitals were required to do … nothing. It was free money. Rather than relieving the pandemic pressure, the 187 private hospitals treated, between them, a grand total of eight Covid patients a day. And, perhaps because they were now being paid merely for existing, they greatly reduced the other NHS-funded procedures they handled.

In 2021, through a scarcely noticed policy that seems to me just as scandalous as its corrupt PPE deals, the government extended these payments for doing nothing for a further four years, with a new “framework contract” for private hospitals. The expected cost is £10bn.

Even when they do treat patients, transferring NHS services to private hospitals does not increase capacity. It diverts the money that would have been spent in the public sector to a less efficient and more costly service. Private hospitals don’t train their own doctors and nurses. They cannot offer more services without sucking staff out of the NHS.

The NHS is bleeding out in the government’s waiting room, hoping for a call that never comes.”

A few hours as a patient in A&E confirmed it to me – the Tories are bleeding out the NHS | George Monbiot

During my time at a local hospital, I witnessed the devastation of 13 years of government underfunding of emergency care, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot

www.theguardian.com

For Christ’s sake, we need a general election now.

George Mobiot is an excellent journalist. Then again, his article might only contain 'some truth' and might have been written by a bot - eh x3?

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

George Mobiot is an excellent journalist. Then again, his article might only contain 'some truth' and might have been written by a bot - eh x3?

George has a tendency towards his own political bias, but he’s a decent writer. I read ‘Feral’ a book he wrote about rewilding a couple of years ago… He’s not too popular with the local Farmers in South Wales

I don’t think anyone can dispute that the NHS is struggling. It’s been struggling for as long as I can remember, but the Pandemic, Brexit and general lack of investment (combined) with a desperate need to restructure has really forced it to its knees.

I’m not sure what the solution is really… I suppose that often depends which side of the political fence you sit on…

 

[Memphisboy]

Perhaps the thousands of managers on six figure salaries could pull their fingers out and get things organised, NHS has never been so heavily bankrolled yet the Govt get the stick and they all get a free pass.And we’ve all seen the job adverts for ridiculous roles (equality and diversity) so spare me the no money excuses

 

[Sooty59]

It needs funding or it’ll be lost gradually until it’s of little use at all. Can people not see & be outraged about a vital service being underfunded & probably miss managed. This lot clinging to power need running out of town RIGHT NOW. The least they should be doing is to resolve all the public sector workers pay & conditions awards. But no they continue to play games whilst people die, people can’t travel, people can’t get proper care, people can’t get a proper education. How ** much does that cost in “real terms”
It makes me so angry

 

[Stony Hill]

My eldest sister-in-law has been a hospital nurse for the best part of 35yrs.
Therefore, I believe her.
Her opinion is that the system is creaking beyond belief. Yes, the NHS desperately needs more nurses (but there will be a time lag whilst they train). Of course, you probably already know that.
What really gets under her fingernails is the use of “agency“ nurses. Astonishingly, they are on higher rates of pay! No, they are not better at the job and when their shift is done, they simply disappear. Committed? No. To be fair, she does say that there are some good ones that will hang on until relief arrives.
The answer: better recruitment, hours and pay. (PS Yes, there other aspects.)
Sorry if you’ve seen all this before.

 

[Archibald Knox]

Perhaps the thousands of managers on six figure salaries could pull their fingers out and get things organised, NHS has never been so heavily bankrolled yet the Govt get the stick and they all get a free pass.And we’ve all seen the job adverts for ridiculous roles (equality and diversity) so spare me the no money excuses

A classic example of “Whataboutery” while ignoring the crucial conditions that 99.9% of NHS staff have to deal with.
Obvious and crass deflection tactics. Best to ignore.

Even the Tories’ own Daily Telegraph reports that there are 105,000 staff vacancies in the NHS of which they can find only errrrrrr... 17 (seventeen) advertised positions for “equality and diversity managers”. And none close to a “six figure salary”. Most less than half that.

NHS hires diversity managers on £77,000 a year despite ‘war on wokery’

A government review had suggested the roles should be cut back

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[1966_and_all_that]

George has a tendency towards his own political bias, but he’s a decent writer. I read ‘Feral’ a book he wrote about rewilding a couple of years ago… He’s not too popular with the local Farmers in South Wales

I don’t think anyone can dispute that the NHS is struggling. It’s been struggling for as long as I can remember, but the Pandemic, Brexit and general lack of investment (combined) with a desperate need to restructure has really forced it to its knees.

I’m not sure what the solution is really… I suppose that often depends which side of the political fence you sit on…

OK, I put it out there for you to sniff out but really, your reply is a reasonable one. I take issue with your final point though. I don't think it does depend which side of the political fence you sit on. At least, not within the Parliamentary consensus that we mostly follow in this country. If we are to have a National Health Service and if that NHS is to have the full remit of keeping the country healthy, then not even general public Tories would support what has been allowed to happen to it over the past 12 years.

I would go further and suggest that with the huge growth in elderly people caused by rising life expectancy we need to make a new social pact with ourselves as to what this should mean for NHS funding. I'm not talking about the cross party yaa-boo £billions here, £billions there showmanship. I'm taking about an understanding that all employed people and businesses be required to contribute 50% of their gross income in taxation, aimed at a fundamentally strong core of social services: Intensive & community health & welfare, youth, tertiary, further and higher education, civil policing, prisons and the judiciary and defence. I mean a complete overhaul that makes our towns, cities and rural communities safe, green and prosperous; with a society at peace with itself across race, ethnicity, gender and age. A society in which the race for personal gain and wealth at the expense of others is seen as antiquated and out of touch.

 

[poolseasider]

George has a tendency towards his own political bias, but he’s a decent writer. I read ‘Feral’ a book he wrote about rewilding a couple of years ago… He’s not too popular with the local Farmers in South Wales

I don’t think anyone can dispute that the NHS is struggling. It’s been struggling for as long as I can remember, but the Pandemic, Brexit and general lack of investment (combined) with a desperate need to restructure has really forced it to its knees.

I’m not sure what the solution is really… I suppose that often depends which side of the political fence you sit on…

Simple take it out of politics then you've a decent base to start from.

OK, I put it out there for you to sniff out but really, your reply is a reasonable one. I take issue with your final point though. I don't think it does depend which side of the political fence you sit on. At least, not within the Parliamentary consensus that we mostly follow in this country. If we are to have a National Health Service and if that NHS is to have the full remit of keeping the country healthy, then not even general public Tories would support what has been allowed to happen to it over the past 12 years.

I would go further and suggest that with the huge growth in elderly people caused by rising life expectancy we need to make a new social pact with ourselves as to what this should mean for NHS funding. I'm not talking about the cross party yaa-boo £billions here, £billions there showmanship. I'm taking about an understanding that all employed people and businesses be required to contribute 50% of their gross income in taxation, aimed at a fundamentally strong core of social services: Intensive & community health & welfare, youth, tertiary, further and higher education, civil policing, prisons and the judiciary and defence. I mean a complete overhaul that makes our towns, cities and rural communities safe, green and prosperous; with a society at peace with itself across race, ethnicity, gender and age. A society in which the race for personal gain and wealth at the expense of others is seen as antiquated and out of touch.

Our population has grown by ten million in 30 years so it ain't just the elderly living longer which has stuffed our system this has been a ticking time bomb for years.

We need a massive rethink but whilst it's a political hot potato doesn't matter who is running the NHS nothing is going to change.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Simple take it out of politics then you've a decent base to start from.

Our population has grown by ten million in 30 years so it ain't just the elderly living longer which has stuffed our system this has been a ticking time bomb for years.

We need a massive rethink but whilst it's a political hot potato doesn't matter who is running the NHS nothing is going to change.

Simple take it out of politics then you've a decent base to start from.

Our population has grown by ten million in 30 years so it ain't just the elderly living longer which has stuffed our system this has been a ticking time bomb for years.

We need a massive rethink but whilst it's a political hot potato doesn't matter who is running the NHS nothing is going to change.

I know what you mean but I'm hopeful that this time, Labour under Starmer, with the good selection of senior MPs he has, and given a fair wind by international relations, the country may start to make progress towards a new society. I'm hanging my hat on that and, yes, whilst it's easy to be cynical, what other options do we have?

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

OK, I put it out there for you to sniff out but really, your reply is a reasonable one. I take issue with your final point though. I don't think it does depend which side of the political fence you sit on. At least, not within the Parliamentary consensus that we mostly follow in this country. If we are to have a National Health Service and if that NHS is to have the full remit of keeping the country healthy, then not even general public Tories would support what has been allowed to happen to it over the past 12 years.

I would go further and suggest that with the huge growth in elderly people caused by rising life expectancy we need to make a new social pact with ourselves as to what this should mean for NHS funding. I'm not talking about the cross party yaa-boo £billions here, £billions there showmanship. I'm taking about an understanding that all employed people and businesses be required to contribute 50% of their gross income in taxation, aimed at a fundamentally strong core of social services: Intensive & community health & welfare, youth, tertiary, further and higher education, civil policing, prisons and the judiciary and defence. I mean a complete overhaul that makes our towns, cities and rural communities safe, green and prosperous; with a society at peace with itself across race, ethnicity, gender and age. A society in which the race for personal gain and wealth at the expense of others is seen as antiquated and out of touch.

Great idea, and lovely sentiment, but cold reality it doesn’t pass the sniff test and simply won’t work…

It’s not as simple as throwing cash at it and higher taxation isn’t a solution to raising the finance in any case…. It just fucks over the economy.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Great idea, and lovely sentiment, but cold reality it doesn’t pass the sniff test and simply won’t work…

It’s not as simple as throwing cash at it and higher taxation isn’t a solution to raising the finance in any case…. It just fucks over the economy.

I was hoping for better from you x3. That is precisely NOT what I'm saying. I am not seeing a future of just throwing cash at stuff. I'm talking about a new societal consensus. One in which public service overtakes private wealth as an end in itself. A kinder and more thoughtful society. It won't take 5 years, it'll take 20 years but if it is given a chance, bit by bit, it is possible.

 

[Memphisboy]

I know what you mean but I'm hopeful that this time, Labour under Starmer, with the good selection of senior MPs he has, and given a fair wind by international relations, the country may start to make progress towards a new society. I'm hanging my hat on that and, yes, whilst it's easy to be cynical, what other options do we have?

Good selection of senior MPs

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Good selection of senior MPs

yes. Now tell me why I'm wrong.

 

[poolseasider]

I know what you mean but I'm hopeful that this time, Labour under Starmer, with the good selection of senior MPs he has, and given a fair wind by international relations, the country may start to make progress towards a new society. I'm hanging my hat on that and, yes, whilst it's easy to be cynical, what other options do we have?

Whilst I'll probably vote Labour(not aligned to one party) at the next GE I just want the NHS taken out of politics.
My wife works at Victoria hospital and I could bore you to death with the stories she tells me the place top to bottom is badly run presume that's the same in a lot of trusts.
Then that comes with a poor performance of some of the staff.
Choosing my words carefully.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Whilst I'll probably vote Labour(not aligned to one party) at the next GE I just want the NHS taken out of politics.
My wife works at Victoria hospital and I could bore you to death with the stories she tells me the place top to bottom is badly run presume that's the same in a lot of trusts.
Then that comes with a poor performance of some of the staff.
Choosing my words carefully.

The NHS will never be taken out of politics. It's whole concept is grounded in political thought. For what it's worth here's my brief story.
I did 32 years as a civil servant. Some of it made sense and was invigorating. Most of it was a waste of time. My last few years in the DWP were mired in the centrality of process, process, process and the holy grail of 'change'. Change for what? Well, bugger all but those who made money out of 'Change' made sure it never stopped. I took early retirement. Then, to keep my brain from ceasing up I took a zero hours, low admin role in the NHS. I did two years (my choice). The people I worked with were brilliant, up for it and committed to their jobs. It was like chalk and cheese. I worked at the Vic, during COVID, and was made up with how great the people were. Of course, doing basic work and not being involved in Management meant that I just let all of the stress and backbiting wash over me. Even so, I'll defend the NHS workers through and through.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

I was hoping for better from you x3. That is precisely NOT what I'm saying. I am not seeing a future of just throwing cash at stuff. I'm talking about a new societal consensus. One in which public service overtakes private wealth as an end in itself. A kinder and more thoughtful society. It won't take 5 years, it'll take 20 years but if it is given a chance, bit by bit, it is possible.

Have you been listening to John Lennon - Imagine earlier today by any chance ?

As I say, it simply won’t happen… Human nature doesn’t work that way.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Have you been listening to John Lennon - Imagine earlier today by any chance ?

As I say, it simply won’t happen… Human nature doesn’t work that way.

Human nature? Did human nature start the NHS? Did human nature send men to the moon? It won't work because people don't think that way - bollocks!

PS. I've probably forgotten more about John Lennon than you'll ever know.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Human nature? Did human nature start the NHS? Did human nature send men to the moon? It won't work because people don't think that way - bollocks!

PS. I've probably forgotten more about John Lennon than you'll ever know.

I realise what humans are capable of… Their / our capability is not in question.

What is in question is the necessary societal ingredients to facilitate the achievement of certain goals.

And yes, Human Nature… The thing that allows you to talk about a caring sharing society, whilst your ego is simultaneously seeking to dominate and force your own ideology as opposed to engaging or seeking any input, beyond that which suits you.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

I realise what humans are capable of… Their / our capability is not in question.

What is in question is the necessary societal ingredients to facilitate the achievement of certain goals.

And yes, Human Nature… The thing that allows you to talk about a caring sharing society, whilst your ego is simultaneously seeking to dominate and force your own ideology as opposed to engaging or seeking any input, beyond that which suits you.

Right, he's off on one. Pull down the blinds Marge.

 

[poolseasider]

Even so, I'll defend the NHS workers through and through.

You shouldn't there are bad apples in every organisation(poison plot,patient mistreatment) stories at the VIc last few years.
The Police force get constant pelters how bad they are and that comes from being badly run NHS workers shouldn't get a free pass.

 

[Kurtan]

Perhaps the thousands of managers on six figure salaries could pull their fingers out and get things organised, NHS has never been so heavily bankrolled yet the Govt get the stick and they all get a free pass.And we’ve all seen the job adverts for ridiculous roles (equality and diversity) so spare me the no money excuses

“the NHS has never been so heavily bankrolled”

All governments increase the amount of funding( I assume you know why this is). It’s the rate of growth to the funding that matters. Since 2010 that rate of growth has decreased

 

[1966_and_all_that]

You shouldn't there are bad apples in every organisation(poison plot,patient mistreatment) stories at the VIc last few years.
The Police force get constant pelters how bad they are and that comes from being badly run NHS workers shouldn't get a free pass.

I'm talking about the generality, not the bad apples.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Right, he's off on one. Pull down the blinds Marge.

You get the point though… In practice we simply don’t function that way.

So society itself needs to create the required conditions / environment which whilst imperfect will best enable us to thrive.

We do need to find a way to rebuild communities… We do need a health system that delivers good quality health care for all.

How we get there I’m not entirely sure and I’m not convinced either political party has a monopoly on it really…

I do wonder whether something as important as the NHS should be taken out of the political sphere altogether and a cross party, long term plan agreed, where funding is guaranteed regardless of political party. …. I don’t think the inconsistency and flip /flopping is helpful.

 

[Bloodtangerine]

While I fully sympathise with the comments, I'm also conscious that Facebook is full of robots planting influential stuff on both sides. I've seen plenty of stuff saying that nurses sit about drinking tea all day, chatting.

Not all day surely?

 

[1966_and_all_that]

You get the point though… In practice we simply don’t function that way.

So society itself needs to create the required conditions / environment which whilst imperfect will best enable us to thrive.

We do need to find a way to rebuild communities… We do need a health system that delivers good quality health care for all.

How we get there I’m not entirely sure and I’m not convinced either political party has a monopoly on it really…

I do wonder whether something as important as the NHS should be taken out of the political sphere altogether and a cross party, long term plan agreed, where funding is guaranteed regardless of political party. …. I don’t think the inconsistency and flip /flopping is helpful.

But it will take politics to get us to a position where there can be a consensus around what the NHS is for, how we need to fund it and where that leaves all citizens in terms of disposable private wealth. Which is where I came in.

 

[Wizaard]

Not all day surely?

That's what's been said.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

But it will take politics to get us to a position where there can be a consensus around what the NHS is for, how we need to fund it and where that leaves all citizens in terms of disposable private wealth. Which is where I came in.

I agree “It will take politics” … I don’t agree that burdening people with massive tax bills is the way forward.

Beyond that… I’m not convinced the blame force where we are can be attributed to one political party and I’ve got no idea what the solution is.

I’ve nothing more to add really…

Apart from I think I’d quite like to see Wales completely turned over to rewilding

 

[Wizaard]

I agree “It will take politics” … I don’t agree that burdening people with massive tax bills is the way forward.

Beyond that… I’m not convinced the blame force where we are can be attributed to one political party and I’ve got no idea what the solution is.

I’ve nothing more to add really…

Apart from I think I’d quite like to see Wales completely turned over to rewilding

This Government have imposed the highest tax bill on us in decades. Got us nowhere.

 

[Killingmesoftly]

People are eating better and living much longer is the reality …my mums 77 and active as most 40 somethings..she’s an older sister whose just gone in a rest home in her early 90s where her 96 year old husband is living…

 

[Fargo99]

What happened to Boris's extra £350m a week?

 

[glasshalffull]

What happened to Boris's extra £350m a week?

And his 40 new hospitals?

 

[Archibald Knox]

It would help if those multi-billionaires and corporations paid their fair share of tax instead of paying huge amounts to accountants for tax avoidance. Companies like Amazon who are incorporated in Luxembourg pay only 1% in tax on their entire European profits, through a clever scheme of remitting virtually all of their profits to the Lux company as “licence fees”.

And what about all these “non-domiciled” people, often nationals of other countries or dual nationals, such as Sunak’s wife who was paid £100s millions in dividends from India, and enjoyed the full benefits of residency in the UK for decades, yet paid only a flat fee of £30k pa for that privilege? And paid no other taxes to their country of origin either? Now, that’s just taking the piss out of everyone.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

“the NHS has never been so heavily bankrolled”

All governments increase the amount of funding( I assume you know why this is). It’s the rate of growth to the funding that matters. Since 2010 that rate of growth has decreased

I feel like screaming when I see Govt Ministers on the telly saying that there's more money going into the health service than there's ever been. Yes, and if I give you a fiver towards it that'll be even more money than there's ever been.