The Chancellor's pre-Budget speech

[tommytwojags]

Yes, it's hard to believe but the Chancellor's pre-Budget speech started with classic golden oldies such as

"Years of economic mismanagement"
"a £22bn black hole"
" It's the fault of Liz Truss"
"High levels of Tory debt"
"Ill-conceived Brexit"
"We had the fastest growth in the G7 last year at 1%",
"We pledged to get debt down, get NHS waiting lists down, get costs of living down and we are on track to achieve this"
"We will build 1.5 million new homes in this Parliament"
"Global economic challenges mean that it's not our fault if we fail to achieve our economic goals"

For those who remained awake through the offloading of blame for Labour's failed policies, the Chancellor introduced some new classics, such as

"This is about being honest"
"This government has achieved stability, investment and reform"
"We are cutting national debt and the cost of borrowing"
"Our compliance with the fiscal rules is iron-clad"

So, all the pledges about no further tax rises during the current Parliament look to be more false promises. Reeves had the opportunity today to put minds at ease. Will she hit pensions in the Budget? If not, then why not say so as millions cash in their pensions and leave themselves without funds during retirement. Will she continue to attack businesses? Then make it clear because she has already brought recruitment to a halt and reduced business investment due to uncertainty.

In summary, a continuing embarrassing exhibition of how not to run United Kingdom plc.

 

[bollieboy]

The speech was pretty much for the bond markets. Seems to have done its job as bond yields have subsequently dropped a little.

 

[B_Side_The_C_Side]

I wonder what Liz Truss is up to nowadays?

 

[fcblackpool]

I wonder what Liz Truss is up to nowadays?

In hiding.

Anyone care about Farage's U turn on tax cuts citing the state of public finances? No, didn't think so.

 

[Lost Seasider]

The speech was pretty much for the bond markets. Seems to have done its job as bond yields have subsequently dropped a little.

The speech was to soften us all up for her breaking even more of her manifesto commitments.

 

[Macseasider]

The speech was to soften us all up for her breaking even more of her manifesto commitments.

So you think tax rises are not necessary then?

Manifestos: Are they ever kept to? Like all the hospitals to be built in the penultimate one?

 

[Lost Seasider]

So you think tax rises are not necessary then?

Manifestos: Are they ever kept to? Like all the hospitals to be built in the penultimate one?

She created this mess by going on a massive spending spree in the last budget, now she's choosing to do more of the same rather than exercise the sort of restraint that's sorely needed.

Plus, I think we're already past the inflection point of the Laffer curve, so any tax rises she does pass are likely to be counterproductive in the mid to long term.

 

[Delfino]

So you think tax rises are not necessary then?

Manifestos: Are they ever kept to? Like all the hospitals to be built in the penultimate one?

Our Chancellor thought they were unnecessary a few months ago.....

 

[Wizaard]

The speech was to soften us all up for her breaking even more of her manifesto commitments.

Like Farage. But we don't talk about that.

 

[Wizaard]

Yes, it's hard to believe but the Chancellor's pre-Budget speech started with classic golden oldies such as

"Years of economic mismanagement"
"a £22bn black hole"
" It's the fault of Liz Truss"
"High levels of Tory debt"
"Ill-conceived Brexit"
"We had the fastest growth in the G7 last year at 1%",
"We pledged to get debt down, get NHS waiting lists down, get costs of living down and we are on track to achieve this"
"We will build 1.5 million new homes in this Parliament"
"Global economic challenges mean that it's not our fault if we fail to achieve our economic goals"

For those who remained awake through the offloading of blame for Labour's failed policies, the Chancellor introduced some new classics, such as

"This is about being honest"
"This government has achieved stability, investment and reform"
"We are cutting national debt and the cost of borrowing"
"Our compliance with the fiscal rules is iron-clad"

So, all the pledges about no further tax rises during the current Parliament look to be more false promises. Reeves had the opportunity today to put minds at ease. Will she hit pensions in the Budget? If not, then why not say so as millions cash in their pensions and leave themselves without funds during retirement. Will she continue to attack businesses? Then make it clear because she has already brought recruitment to a halt and reduced business investment due to uncertainty.

In summary, a continuing embarrassing exhibition of how not to run United Kingdom plc.

Which of those statements are incorrect?

Even Farage says the economy is in a dire state and he's abandoning the huge tax cuts he promised, but he's allowed to break those because he's incapable of telling the truth.

 

[20togo]

Like Farage. But we don't talk about that.

I think you and others talk about Farage a lot. You could say it's an obsession or a deflection or both.

 

[Wizaard]

I think you and others talk about Farage a lot. You could say it's an obsession or a deflection or both.

He sits on the sidelines doing down the country and lying about what he will do to solve it.

He needs calling out on it. If you're saying Rachel is a liar for going back on the pre election manifesto, then he is for promising massive tax cuts that he now says are not possible.

 

[20togo]

He sits on the sidelines doing down the country and lying about what he will do to solve it.

He needs calling out on it. If you're saying Rachel is a liar for going back on the pre election manifesto, then he is for promising massive tax cuts that he now says are not possible.

like i said, i've no time for Farage and would never vote for him. He's probably just relying on the protest vote. That's not to say i don't share some of the concerns that both he and the rest of the country have. Something that you appear to think is not a problem.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

The speech was to soften us all up for her breaking even more of her manifesto commitments.

That's one way of looking at it. And why not? Each to their own, I say. Have a lovely day.

 

[Wizaard]

like i said, i've no time for Farage and would never vote for him. He's probably just relying on the protest vote. That's not to say i don't share some of the concerns that both he and the rest of the country have. Something that you appear to think is not a problem.

Farage

How would you boost the economy? Stop the boats.

How would you improve the NHS? Stop the boats

How would you make tax cuts? Stop the boats.

Simplistic solutions to problems he caused through Brexit.

 

[20togo]

Farage

How would you boost the economy? Stop the boats.

How would you improve the NHS? Stop the boats

How would you make tax cuts? Stop the boats.

Simplistic solutions to problems he caused through Brexit.

what are you telling me that's new? Like i said it seems to be all about one issue. And as i said it's an issue that the whole country has concerns about and why it's a regular topic on news channels and social media. Something you seem to struggle with acknowledging. And more or less saying it isn't an issue. So who is really out of kilter? You or the rest of the country? So this point you like to throw at me, about always thinking i'm right? Well i'm not sure this stands you in a good stead.

 

[bill40]

Taxes are going up as was always inevitable, it's payback time for bank largesse and Covid. The taxes rises were always going to happen, it's the stupidity that happened before that grinds my gears. There was Starmer with a massive poll lead just before an election he was bound to win. Then he let's himself be trapped into promising no main tax rises when he simply didn't have to because he can't help himself, he really is a plank.

The other main problem he has is that he and his entire cabinet come across as a bunch of cyborgs except with less personality and humour. Oh well it's not Reform at least.

 

[Matesrates]

It looks like they’re going to use the argument that it’s all the previous governments fault right through this parliament. Not unusual of course, most governments have already done the same, but the difference is, nobody believes them now.

None of them tackle the problem of multi layers of civil servants; overloaded with layers of highly paid executives, holding meetings, producing minutiae ready for the next meaningless meeting.

 

[Lost Seasider]

Taxes are going up as was always inevitable, it's payback time for bank largesse and Covid. The taxes rises were always going to happen, it's the stupidity that happened before that grinds my gears.

Those were one off events in past, there's no particular reason why they should lead to tax rises now.

Taxes are going up because Reeves wants to keep spending like there's no tomorrow, and the PLP won't tolerate even the slightest attempt at restraint.

 

[fcblackpool]

As an aside, am I alone in thinking that Kemi Badknock needs putting down? She's absolutely awful and is the perfect advertisement for Reform.

Back on track....tax rises were always going to happen. The problem with politicians is they think, perhaps hope and project they can be avoided, until of course they can't. And the problem with economic forecasting (manifesto pledges) if that they are taken at a moment in time and assume almost set variable influences. Clearly that can never happen, as is the case here.

One thing for sure is Labour need some personality in No 10 and No 11. they seriously lack even a sprinkle of that.

 

[bill40]

Those were one off events in past, there's no particular reason why they should lead to tax rises now.

Taxes are going up because Reeves wants to keep spending like there's no tomorrow, and the PLP won't tolerate even the slightest attempt at restraint.

We have a glut of bonds to push through the system which is why we are struggling with yields, that is the crisis in a nutshell. Labour should have whacked up taxes from the off for four years and then reduced them. Of course, as my comment made perfectly clear, they effed it up big style. A sidenote, during Covid the BoE could have sold 100 year bonds (yes 100 year) at a rate close to zero but didn't.

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

I would actually respect her for doing this (if she does) but I suppose she had no real alternative given the mess that they have inherited. Of course a lot of people will be very angry but it is the correct course of action given the circumstances and they were very foolish to promise no tax rises before the election. If she hadn't plugged the hole we could have been facing a Liz Truss type scenario when the markets stop thinking that the government spending is credible.
However, if they are serious about governing they need to get a handle on the welfare budget, their first attempt at this failed and they need to come back and try again. I wouldn't be against, for instance, limiting most benefits only to British citizens.
Another thing that is not being addressed is the youth who are on long term sickness with mental health problems - why not massively improve mental health services and get them to work. There seems to be no strategy to deal with this and if somebody doesn't develop a work habit when they are young they often rarely work during the rest of their life.
Hopefully we will see a recovery over the next few years, there are a few good signs, inflation falling, wages rising, interest rates falling and a bit of growth. Government spending should also generate some growth and revenue. But they need to be bolder - why not for instance rejoin the customs union with the EU which would guarantee an almost immediate stimulus to the economy.

 

[Wizaard]

what are you telling me that's new? Like i said it seems to be all about one issue. And as i said it's an issue that the whole country has concerns about and why it's a regular topic on news channels and social media. Something you seem to struggle with acknowledging. And more or less saying it isn't an issue. So who is really out of kilter? You or the rest of the country? So this point you like to throw at me, about always thinking i'm right? Well i'm not sure this stands you in a good stead.

And I keep telling you it's not that big an issue, but when, for whatever reason, Reform keep getting constant media coverage, it's at the forefront while they try and sneak in scrapping the free NHS, reduce wages and get out of the ECHR. The country isn't being swamped as a cursory look at the migration stats would tell you, but we're being fed a false narrative.

There are far more serious matters need attending to.

I don't care if I'm out of kilter because in the long term, I'm on the right side and am comfortable with it.

 

[20togo]

And I keep telling you it's not that big an issue, but when, for whatever reason, Reform keep getting constant media coverage, it's at the forefront while they try and sneak in scrapping the free NHS, reduce wages and get out of the ECHR. The country isn't being swamped as a cursory look at the migration stats would tell you, but we're being fed a false narrative.

There are far more serious matters need attending to.

I don't care if I'm out of kilter because in the long term, I'm on the right side and am comfortable with it.

there you go believing you are always right again. You're telling us it's not a big issue but very few people agree with you.

I'm glad you brought up the false narrative. Bit like all the guff with the BBC and their Hamas bias. And you believed it.

 

[Wizaard]

there you go believing you are always right again. You're telling us it's not a big issue but very few people agree with you.

I'm glad you brought up the false narrative. Bit like all the guff with the BBC and their Hamas bias. And you believed it.

Very few?

Really? Where's your evidence?

Net migration down 450,000 since Labour got in power, hotels being closed down.

Guff with the BBC. That's right, according to you, no one except Hamas members have been killed.

Every poll has the NHS and the economy as voters' biggest concerns. Fact.

 

[20togo]

Very few?

Really? Where's your evidence?

Net migration down 450,000 since Labour got in power, hotels being closed down.

Guff with the BBC. That's right, according to you, no one except Hamas members have been killed.

well it's clearly a subject that the whole country is interested in no matter how much you try to play it down.

Hotels being closed down? So loads more empty buildings. How about using them for our homeless?

BBC bias. You believe everyone killed was by an Israeli.

 

[Lost Seasider]

We have a glut of bonds to push through the system which is why we are struggling with yields, that is the crisis in a nutshell. Labour should have whacked up taxes from the off for four years and then reduced them. Of course, as my comment made perfectly clear, they effed it up big style. A sidenote, during Covid the BoE could have sold 100 year bonds (yes 100 year) at a rate close to zero but didn't.

We're struggling with yields because inflation is above target and the markets don't believe Labour can control spending, which is why our yields are higher than the likes of France/Italy, despite a much smaller stock of debt relative to GDP.

 

[Wizaard]

well it's clearly a subject that the whole country is interested in no matter how much you try to play it down.

Hotels being closed down? So loads more empty buildings. How about using them for our homeless?

BBC bias. You believe everyone killed was by an Israeli.

The overwhelming majority have been.

 

[20togo]

The overwhelming majority have been.

i think that is stating the obvious but well done.

 

[poolseasider]

Very few?

Really? Where's your evidence?

Net migration down 450,000 since Labour got in power, hotels being closed down.

Guff with the BBC. That's right, according to you, no one except Hamas members have been killed.

Every poll has the NHS and the economy as voters' biggest concerns. Fact.

There you go again with that migration 450,000 figure.

That's for 2024 which the Tories were in power for half of it and it's totally meaningless as the comparisons are post COVID which migration was bound to increase before levelling off.

Change the record.

 

[Wizaard]

There you go again with that migration 450,000 figure.

That's for 2024 which the Tories were in power for half of it and it's totally meaningless as the comparisons are post COVID which migration was bound to increase before levelling off.

Change the record.

Nope. Up to April 2025. The trend continues.

 

[bill40]

We're struggling with yields because inflation is above target and the markets don't believe Labour can control spending, which is why our yields are higher than the likes of France/Italy, despite a much smaller stock of debt relative to GDP.

Please don't tell me you think the debt problems of Italy and France are greater than ours. The only country hit harder than us by the banking crisis was the US and the rules are different there. Italy and France hide behind the fast shrinking German shield. Leaving the bonds on the banks' books would save billions which needs to be done. Taxes must rise as they have been kept bizarrely low for decades. And the best thing? I don't pay taxes anymore, I worked during Covid in appalling conditions so suck it up.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

what are you telling me that's new? Like i said it seems to be all about one issue. And as i said it's an issue that the whole country has concerns about and why it's a regular topic on news channels and social media. Something you seem to struggle with acknowledging. And more or less saying it isn't an issue. So who is really out of kilter? You or the rest of the country? So this point you like to throw at me, about always thinking i'm right? Well i'm not sure this stands you in a good stead.

You reply to a post that talks about:
the economy
The NHS
Tax cuts

And you say it's only about one issue. You don't take in what you read. You concentrate solely on what you want to read and what you want to reply to.

 

[20togo]

You reply to a post that talks about:
the economy
The NHS
Tax cuts

And you say it's only about one issue. You don't take in what you read. You concentrate solely on what you want to read and what you want to reply to.

think it's you who is misunderstanding. I don't say it's about one issue at all. I'm saying that's what Farage says and he's relying on this protest vote about it.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

think it's you who is misunderstanding. I don't say it's about one issue at all. I'm saying that's what Farage says and he's relying on this protest vote about it.

"what are you telling me that's new? Like i said it seems to be all about one issue."

Courtesy of Mr contradiction himself.... @20togo

 

[20togo]

"what are you telling me that's new? Like i said it seems to be all about one issue."

Courtesy of Mr contradiction himself.... @20togo

again misunderstanding my point there. Farage is all about one issue not, Wiz!

 

[Lost Seasider]

Please don't tell me you think the debt problems of Italy and France are greater than ours. The only country hit harder than us by the banking crisis was the US and the rules are different there. Italy and France hide behind the fast shrinking German shield. Leaving the bonds on the banks' books would save billions which needs to be done.

Please check your facts before posting, and stop prattling on about the banks when it was 15 years ago and didn't result in any meaningful debt in the long run.

Bond yields by country
Debt to GDP Ratio by Country 2025
Greece: 162%
Italy: 135%
France: 111%
Canada: 108%
UK: 97.6%

And all of them have substantially lower yields than the UK.

Taxes must rise as they have been kept bizarrely low for decades. And the best thing? I don't pay taxes anymore, I worked during Covid in appalling conditions so suck it up.

So, reading between the lines, "I'm alright jack,so everyone else can suck it up for me".

What a nice man you are, oh, and has it occurred to you that plenty of other people also worked in "appalling conditions", and still have to pay the taxes.

 

[poolseasider]

Please check your facts before posting, and stop prattling on about the banks when it was 15 years ago and didn't result in any meaningful debt in the long run.

Bond yields by country
Debt to GDP Ratio by Country 2025
Greece: 162%
Italy: 135%
France: 111%
Canada: 108%
UK: 97.6%

And all of them have substantially lower yields than the UK.



So, reading between the lines, "I'm alright jack,so everyone else can suck it up for me".

What a nice man you are, oh, and has it occurred to you that plenty of other people also worked in "appalling conditions", and still have to pay the taxes.

He's chatting shite he'll get taxed on his private pension unless he never took out one and is living off the state!

 

[bill40]

Please check your facts before posting, and stop prattling on about the banks when it was 15 years ago and didn't result in any meaningful debt in the long run.

Bond yields by country
Debt to GDP Ratio by Country 2025
Greece: 162%
Italy: 135%
France: 111%
Canada: 108%
UK: 97.6%

And all of them have substantially lower yields than the UK.



So, reading between the lines, "I'm alright jack,so everyone else can suck it up for me".

What a nice man you are, oh, and has it occurred to you that plenty of other people also worked in "appalling conditions", and still have to pay the taxes.

You have no idea what you've just posted have you. That wasn't a question.

 

[Chunkylad]

Can I just confirm a point for clarity?

Current government should not blame previous government for being shit?

Is there a limit on the length of time the government and supporters can blame the last lot?

 

[Chunkylad]

Setting aside our difference of opinion on that matter, what has changed since the election?

AFAIK, there haven't been any major surprises, so if they're abandoning their manifesto commitments after one year, that's entirely upon them.

Agree. (Made me giggle too on the use of bold there, as we indeed disagree as I felt more betrayed by the last Govt than I do this shower).

It's going to be hard for Reform if they get in, and can't blame Labour for being useless.

 

[Wizaard]

Setting aside our difference of opinion on that matter, what has changed since the election?

AFAIK, there haven't been any major surprises, so if they're abandoning their manifesto commitments after one year, that's entirely upon them.

Trump's tariffs? Given we discarded our closest trading bloc in favour of, amomg others, the USA?

 

[bill40]

Another bet like you asked Jaffa.
See you Saturday

That bet remains. You won't see me Saturday I'll be indoors tucked up. Up yours tosser.

 

[poolseasider]

That bet remains. You won't see me Saturday I'll be indoors tucked up. Up yours tosser.

Still confused what the bet is.
Keyboard warrior.

 

[bill40]

Still confused what the bet is.
Keyboard warrior.

Define the bet. Reform would fck everything up which won't happen because they'll never be elected, that was the bet. So you're Jaffa's alter ego, yes?

 

[poolseasider]

Define the bet. Reform would fck everything up which won't happen because they'll never be elected, that was the bet. So you're Jaffa's alter ego, yes?

Go.to bed.