The Penny Finally Drops On Borders

Travellers to the UK from 30 high-risk countries who lie about where they have come from will face £10,000 fines or up to 10 years in jail.

Ministers are concerned that people will fail to declare where they have come from on passenger locator forms in a bid to avoid 11 days of hotel quarantine.

Matt Hancock, the health secretary, announced that those who lie on their forms will face £10,000 fines and face prosecution for forgery, which carries a jail term of 10 years.

The health secretary also set out the first details of the hotel quarantine scheme for those travelling to the UK from 33 “red-list” countries where potentially vaccine-resistant strains of coronavirus are prevalent.

The scheme is being implemented on Monday and the government is attempting to secure 28,000 hotel rooms to accommodate 1,425 passengers a day. However, Hancock announced that the government has only secured 5,600 rooms in 16 hotels.

People will be charged £1,750 11 days quarantine to cover the cost of transport to hotels, their room and their food. They will be required to book their room in advance on a government website, which is due to be launched later this week. Those who fail to go into hotel quarantine will face £10,000 fines.
The government has also announced a new testing regime for all other travellers. They will be required to get a PCR test on day two and day eight of their stay, which they will be expected to pay for themselves.
Those who fail to do so will face a £1,000 fine for the first missed test and a £2,000 fine for their second. Their quarantine period will automatically be extended to 14 days if they fail to take a test.
Announcing the changes in the Commons, Hancock said he made “no apology” for the harshness of the new penalties which he said were “mission critical” to easing the UK’s lockdown.

“We’re dealing with one of the strongest threats to our public health that we’ve faced as a nation,” he said.
“We must protect this hard won progress by making sure we secure the nation against new variants of coronavirus.”
He added: “These new enforcement powers will make sure that the hard work and sacrifice isn’t undermined by a small minority who don’t want to follow the rules.”
Matt Hancock was due to give details of the new package of measures to deal with travel from high risk countries today

Matt Hancock was due to give details of the new package of measures to deal with travel from high risk countries today

Asked whether the new controls were being imposed too late, Mr Eustice said: “I don’t really accept that. I think, ever since December when we started to see these other strains arriving, we have been incrementally strengthening our approach to the border.”
The extra testing burden — with the cost expected to fall on travellers — has added to concerns in the travel industry.
Paul Charles, from The PC Agency travel consultants and the Quash Quarantine campaign, told Today: “It’s quite clear we have entered a much tougher new phase where the government wants to squeeze border entry and exit completely by adding these layers of complexity.”
He added that if passengers had to pay for three tests — including one pre-departure — that would “obviously kill off travel, that will stop anybody really, even if they have to make an essential trip”.
He suggested that the furlough scheme would have to be extended to protect the travel industry.
Derek Jones, chief executive of the luxury travel company Kuoni, welcomed the plan to test arriving travellers but called for it to coincide with an easing of mandatory self-isolation requirements.
“A robust testing regime is the way to open up travel again but it has to replace or at least shorten quarantine,” he said.
“That’s the way to get travel moving again.”
 
Only taken 11 months

AKA the situation has changed.

Roughly speaking, back in Feb/March we were getting 50 or so cases per day imported from overseas, meanwhile we had 50,000 - 100,000 domestic infections per day.

50/100,000 = 0.05%, ...................... yeah, that's gonna make all the difference.
 
AKA the situation has changed.

Roughly speaking, back in Feb/March we were getting 50 or so cases per day imported from overseas, meanwhile we had 50,000 - 100,000 domestic infections per day.

50/100,000 = 0.05%, ...................... yeah, that's gonna make all the difference.
It’s that level of casual acceptance of how unprepared we were which lies at the heart of what went wrong. Others have even gone so far as to say we were unlucky in order to deflect from the failure to prepare the necessary protocols for an emergent pandemic.
What is worrying is hearing Kate Bingham still having to spell it out to the Select Comittee on Science and Technology that the civil service and Whitehall do not have the technical competences to prepare the resilience required to prevent another pandemic. We were inadequately prepared for this one. The protocols required to close borders when it counted were not there. It was too late by the time your 100000 had it. It mattered before that.
 
It’s that level of casual acceptance of how unprepared we were which lies at the heart of what went wrong. Others have even gone so far as to say we were unlucky in order to deflect from the failure to prepare the necessary protocols for an emergent pandemic.

That's your point of view, here's what was being said at the time: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-...-coronavirus-pandemic-sophisticated-analysis/

In the wake of the 2014 Ebola outbreak, the UK was at the leading edge of efforts to improve the global system to prevent, detect and respond to epidemic threats.

Today, as Covid-19 rapidly spreads, it is one of the countries best prepared to manage this public health risk, but real gaps remain that could limit its ability to respond effectively to this or future outbreaks.............

..........Thanks to this important work, the UK scores number two, after the US, in the Global Health Security Index



The "real gaps" mostly concerned an ageing and highly urbanised population.
 
A woman on tv this morning saying she had travelled from South Africa and was waved straight through customs without any questioning.
Also, a government minister acknowledging that no hotels as yet signed up for the isolation program as yet.
Sorry, but I’ve not much faith in this at all.
 
The UK got it massively wrong....

I got slated by some for saying Singapore got it right.

Every step the UK government makes, is a similar step the Singapore government made a year ago 👍👍👍

Case rates by continent:

1612880710317.png

Your "oh so clever" response to the pandemic was in fact simply a matter of luck and geography.

Btw, when you look closely, the UK did almost the same things as Singapore at the same time, but being next to Europe rather than on the other side of the world made them much less effective.
 
Case rates by continent:

View attachment 4763

Your "oh so clever" response to the pandemic was in fact simply a matter of luck and geography.

Btw, when you look closely, the UK did almost the same things as Singapore at the same time, but being next to Europe rather than on the other side of the world made them much less effective.
Yes, because being next to China made it much safer.
 
That's your point of view
Er no.... it’s Kate Bingham’s otherwise she wouldn’t have said it under oath. And given the way her team set about achieving what they have, I think her views deserve respect.
It’s also what many of us who have been involved in work with the Centre for Protection of National Infrastructure think too.
The authors of an academic survey in 2014 have been shown to be wanting too.
 
Wonder if this lady forms part of the Govt stats on the impact of foreign arrivals ?


It’s the case mentioned above

How the hell is stuff like this happening and this is after we’ve just toughened up border controls

It’s an absolute shambles
 
I think what needs to be considered here is.... had the UK government locked borders back in March, would some on here have accepted it with open arms or called out HMG for its “ little Englander” politics ....given the information at the time? Answers without the benefit of hindsight please😁
 
I think what needs to be considered here is.... had the UK government locked borders back in March, would some on here have accepted it with open arms or called out HMG for its “ little Englander” politics ....given the information at the time? Answers without the benefit of hindsight please😁
Does this comment come with a free pointy hat with bells on and a pig’s bladder on a stick
 
Wonder if this lady forms part of the Govt stats on the impact of foreign arrivals ?


It’s the case mentioned above

How the hell is stuff like this happening and this is after we’ve just toughened up border controls

It’s an absolute shambles

Hmmmmmm, freelance journalist, most of her writing seems to be celeb stuff for the Mirror and work seems to have dried up over the last 11 months.

Anyone wondering if this might be staged?
 
Case rates by continent:

View attachment 4763

Your "oh so clever" response to the pandemic was in fact simply a matter of luck and geography.

Btw, when you look closely, the UK did almost the same things as Singapore at the same time, but being next to Europe rather than on the other side of the world made them much less effective.
Singapore closed the borders straight away and introduced mandatory quarantine.

The UK has still not done that.

...please explain your nearly point more, as I have no idea what you are on about!!!!

ps I nearly won the lottery once 😂😂😂👍
 
Perversely yes, the reasons why Asia seems to be largely immune aren't clear, but the numbers are.
Because there is an acceptance of wearing face masks, far more stringent lockdown rules and closure of borders for starters.

None of the above were brought in here until the virus was well established, if at all

Yet some claim there's no correlation.

Cue benefit of hindsight claims...
 
Hmmmmmm, freelance journalist, most of her writing seems to be celeb stuff for the Mirror and work seems to have dried up over the last 11 months.

Anyone wondering if this might be staged?
How could it be staged if she's telling the truth - if there was effective security it couldn't happen
 
As TAM eludes too, why on earth has it taken over a year into a global pandemic for some strong action on movement in and out of the country.

We are an island for crying out loud, if we can’t get control of our borders what hope do we have really.
 
It’s one massive joke. What’s the point?
Why are/were people allowed to travel in and out of the country for other than essential travel.
This should have been implemented a year ago.
This preaching to us mere mortals to stay home to save the NHS when you have the preachers doing the opposite is just laughable.
 
How did you cope without being able to import food and medicine for months on end?


I'll give you a serious response later.
EEErrrrrr - we have had no shortages of either!

I can (and could) get Boddingtons and Warburtons Orange Toastie delivered at request - all part of a stable diet, with as much Italian wine as one could possibly consume.

Marks and Sparks Bacon and Sausages always go/went down well too 👍
 
Singapore closed the borders straight away and introduced mandatory quarantine.

Okay, serious response, here's what Wikipedia says:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Singapore#International_relations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_government_response_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic
(quotes are from these links unless otherwise provided)

One of the earliest recorded travel advisory on travelling to or from Singapore issued by other countries was by United Kingdom on 24 January 2020

(UK on 24 January) Travellers from Hubei province in China, including the capital Wuhan, were advised to self-isolate, "stay at home, not go to work, school or public places, not use public transport or taxis; ask friends, family members or delivery services to do errands",[25]

Singapore began to restrict travellers from entering from 29 January in a progressive manner as a response to localised outbreaks. Travelers from Hubei were banned from entering Singapore on 29 January


28 January

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51288672
The Foreign Office is warning Britons not to travel to mainland China, unless their journey is essential..........The FCO had already warned against all travel to Hubei Province.


7 February
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/06/third-person-in-uk-confirmed-as-having-coronavirus
The UK’s four chief medical officers called on travellers from a list of countries popular with Britons or with higher numbers of cases to self-isolate when they return – guidance that had been confined to arrivals from China.........new guidance told those who had travelled to the UK in the last 14 days from mainland China, Thailand, Japan, Republic of Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia or Macau


26 February
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51625733
The Foreign Office has now updated its travel advice, warning against all but essential travel to 11 quarantined towns in Italy.
The government said anyone returning from those towns must self-isolate.
And those who have travelled north of Pisa are asked to stay at home for 14 days if they develop flu-like symptoms. (This is of course before the asymptomatic transmission issue was known).


9 March
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-09...ial-travel-to-italy-amid-coronavirus-lockdown
British nationals are being warned against all but essential travel to coronavirus-stricken Italy in updated advice issued by the Government.


14 March
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fco-statement-on-spain-travel-advice
We advise against all but essential travel to the whole of mainland Spain, the Balearic Islands and the Canary Islands.


16 March
Prime Minister Boris Johnson advised everyone in the UK against "non-essential" travel and contact with others, as well as suggesting people should avoid pubs, clubs and theatres, and work from home if possible. Pregnant women, people over 70 and those with certain health conditions were urged to consider the advice "particularly important", and would be asked to self-isolate within days.


17 March
Singapore required all visitors who had travelled 14 days prior to ASEAN countries, Japan, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom to be served with a 14-day Stay Home Notice, with ASEAN travellers required to seek approval before entering Singapore. However, this requirement was waived for Singapore's sea and land crossings with Malaysia as it was deemed too disruptive to the 200,000 people who utilise the crossings on a daily basis. This exemption was short-lived as the Malaysian government would soon implement a movement control order that would take effect from 18 March, preventing Malaysians from leaving and most foreigners from entering the country.


18 March
The UK announced schools would close at the end of Friday 20 March.


20 March
The government announced the closure of public venues, such as pubs, restaurants, gyms, leisure centres, nightclubs, theatres and cinemas


23 March
Singapore banned all short-term visitors arriving or transiting through Singapore from 23 March onwards, with only people in essential services like healthcare and transport allowed entry during this time.

Boris Johnson announced in a television broadcast that measures to mitigate the virus were to be tightened to protect the NHS, with wide-ranging restrictions on freedom of movement, enforceable in law,[17] under a stay-at-home order which would last for at least three weeks.


10 May
Prime Minister Johnson asked those who could not work from home to go to work, avoiding public transport if possible; and encouraged the taking of "unlimited amounts" of outdoor exercise, and allowing driving to outdoor destinations within England.


So no, Singapore did not close it's borders straight away (or indeed at all), it imposed restrictions on China after the UK did so and wider restrictions on foreign travellers just at the point that the UK was entering a 7 week long total national lockdown, had we mirrored exactly what Singapore did it would've made no difference whatsoever.
 
EEErrrrrr - we have had no shortages of either!

I can (and could) get Boddingtons and Warburtons Orange Toastie delivered at request - all part of a stable diet, with as much Italian wine as one could possibly consume.

Marks and Sparks Bacon and Sausages always go/went down well too 👍

So you didn't really close the border did you?

Close the borders in fact is a handy phrase to make it look like Singapore was taking decisive action when the reality was that the restrictions were pretty much the same as anywhere else.
 
Okay, serious response, here's what Wikipedia says:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Singapore#International_relations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_government_response_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic
(quotes are from these links unless otherwise provided)

One of the earliest recorded travel advisory on travelling to or from Singapore issued by other countries was by United Kingdom on 24 January 2020

(UK on 24 January) Travellers from Hubei province in China, including the capital Wuhan, were advised to self-isolate, "stay at home, not go to work, school or public places, not use public transport or taxis; ask friends, family members or delivery services to do errands",[25]

Singapore began to restrict travellers from entering from 29 January in a progressive manner as a response to localised outbreaks. Travelers from Hubei were banned from entering Singapore on 29 January


28 January
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51288672
The Foreign Office is warning Britons not to travel to mainland China, unless their journey is essential..........The FCO had already warned against all travel to Hubei Province.


7 February
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/06/third-person-in-uk-confirmed-as-having-coronavirus
The UK’s four chief medical officers called on travellers from a list of countries popular with Britons or with higher numbers of cases to self-isolate when they return – guidance that had been confined to arrivals from China.........new guidance told those who had travelled to the UK in the last 14 days from mainland China, Thailand, Japan, Republic of Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia or Macau


26 February
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51625733
The Foreign Office has now updated its travel advice, warning against all but essential travel to 11 quarantined towns in Italy.
The government said anyone returning from those towns must self-isolate.
And those who have travelled north of Pisa are asked to stay at home for 14 days if they develop flu-like symptoms. (This is of course before the asymptomatic transmission issue was known).


9 March
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-09...ial-travel-to-italy-amid-coronavirus-lockdown
British nationals are being warned against all but essential travel to coronavirus-stricken Italy in updated advice issued by the Government.


14 March
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fco-statement-on-spain-travel-advice
We advise against all but essential travel to the whole of mainland Spain, the Balearic Islands and the Canary Islands.


16 March
Prime Minister Boris Johnson advised everyone in the UK against "non-essential" travel and contact with others, as well as suggesting people should avoid pubs, clubs and theatres, and work from home if possible. Pregnant women, people over 70 and those with certain health conditions were urged to consider the advice "particularly important", and would be asked to self-isolate within days.


17 March
Singapore required all visitors who had travelled 14 days prior to ASEAN countries, Japan, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom to be served with a 14-day Stay Home Notice, with ASEAN travellers required to seek approval before entering Singapore. However, this requirement was waived for Singapore's sea and land crossings with Malaysia as it was deemed too disruptive to the 200,000 people who utilise the crossings on a daily basis. This exemption was short-lived as the Malaysian government would soon implement a movement control order that would take effect from 18 March, preventing Malaysians from leaving and most foreigners from entering the country.


18 March
The UK announced schools would close at the end of Friday 20 March.


20 March
The government announced the closure of public venues, such as pubs, restaurants, gyms, leisure centres, nightclubs, theatres and cinemas


23 March
Singapore banned all short-term visitors arriving or transiting through Singapore from 23 March onwards, with only people in essential services like healthcare and transport allowed entry during this time.

Boris Johnson announced in a television broadcast that measures to mitigate the virus were to be tightened to protect the NHS, with wide-ranging restrictions on freedom of movement, enforceable in law,[17] under a stay-at-home order which would last for at least three weeks.


10 May
Prime Minister Johnson asked those who could not work from home to go to work, avoiding public transport if possible; and encouraged the taking of "unlimited amounts" of outdoor exercise, and allowing driving to outdoor destinations within England.



So no, Singapore did not close it's borders straight away (or indeed at all), it imposed restrictions on China after the UK did so and wider restrictions on foreign travellers just at the point that the UK was entering a 7 week long total national lockdown, had we mirrored exactly what Singapore did it would've made no difference whatsoever.
From your quote they instituted a stay at home policy. Weve never had that.
 
So you didn't really close the border did you?

Close the borders in fact is a handy phrase to make it look like Singapore was taking decisive action when the reality was that the restrictions were pretty much the same as anywhere else.
You really do not have a clue!

Virtually all travellers are required to do a SHN in government quarantine, and the very few that do not are electronically tagged so they cannot leave their property.

Which is how it should be - the UK have never done any of this!!!

The Singapore policy was simple....

1 Stop the virus coming in
2 Quarantine in government facilities ALL people who have it - mostly in hospitals initially and then special built facilities.
3 Lock down the country so it burns out - actually enforce mask wearing and the lockdown!!!
4 Keep the borders locked so it does not come in (locked means quarantine)
5 I have been out for beers an a curry tonight as Covid is not around 👍
 
The trouble is, variants can still be imported, even with the restrictions announced. We have vehicles bringing goods etc from the continent for example. You only need one person to bring something in and interact the wrong way with other people whilst here.
 
From your quote they instituted a stay at home policy. Weve never had that.

Is that the 14 day stay at home notice?

I'm fairly sure that arrivals from non-exempt countries were required by law to do exactly that so the only difference appears to be a piece of paper.
 
Is that the 14 day stay at home notice?

I'm fairly sure that arrivals from non-exempt countries were required by law to do exactly that so the only difference appears to be a piece of paper.
And what % do we think complied ?

We can only guess as we haven't a Scooby doo
 
3 Lock down the country so it burns out - actually enforce mask wearing and the lockdown!!!

Explain how this differs to the UK's 7 week lockdown when we were allowed to leave the house once a day to shop for essential supplies or for exercise alone?

Masks are marginal at best, possibly counterproductive.


As to the rest, this was all implemented after the UK had gone into lockdown and thus was redundant for the UK.
 
Singapore closed the borders straight away and introduced mandatory quarantine.

The UK has still not done that.

...please explain your nearly point more, as I have no idea what you are on about!!!!

ps I nearly won the lottery once 😂😂😂👍
Only once? I've been dead close loads of times, were it not for those other 5 numbers....
 
Explain how this differs to the UK's 7 week lockdown when we were allowed to leave the house once a day to shop for essential supplies or for exercise alone?

Masks are marginal at best, possibly counterproductive.


As to the rest, this was all implemented after the UK had gone into lockdown and thus was redundant for the UK.
We were allowed to leave the house once a day. Theres the difference, right there. Stop at home elsewhere means stop at home.

Even on lockdown people on here were saying they'd walked the dog a couple of times at least, nipped to the paper shop for the in laws, and that was all before they went for the 'essential' shopping. I've said all along that lockdown has been nothing of the sort.

In other countries people have stopped inside for a fortnight.
 
Even on lockdown people on here were saying they'd walked the dog a couple of times at least, nipped to the paper shop for the in laws, and that was all before they went for the 'essential' shopping. I've said all along that lockdown has been nothing of the sort.

You have evidence for that?


In other countries people have stopped inside for a fortnight.

Last time I checked 7 weeks was longer than a fortnight.


Anyway Pumpkin time, see you tomorrow.
 
You have evidence for that?




Last time I checked 7 weeks was longer than a fortnight.


Anyway Pumpkin time, see you tomorrow.
Talking to someone who was in lockdown in Spain I would suggest that this isn’t really lockdown. There’s street parties ( with social distancing) going on, the parks are packed, I’ve never seen so many people exercise. In Spain you could literally only go to the shop for essentials and the Garda and civics were policing it very strictly, you had to show your receipt or you were arrested or sent back the way you came. Some in this country are following the rules and lots are not. We’re too soft and we won’t be told.

Agreed. The in-laws live in France, and they are amazed by how lenient it is here compared to France. You can go out (with a paper saying why) but you can only really exercise to the end of the road and for shopping. The Gendarmes are on you within a few minutes of leaving your property, with 135 euro fines for non compliance.
It's not changed too much for me and Mrs Dave, we can still walk the dog on the beach without using the car to get there.
These are from last April.
 
Yet our lockdown was just as affective as both France and Spain without all of the unnecessary bureaucracy.

I think that goes to show that there’s a whole lot of nonsense talked about ‘lockdown’ and a great deal of unnecessary stuff (particularly outdoor activities) that really doesn’t affect infection rates at all.

I mean the idiots in Spain have people walking around outdoors wearing masks, driving cars (alone) wearing masks etc... All completely and utterly pointless.

There’s no need whatsoever to be overly oppressive. Right now in the U.K. infection rates have been plummeting since New Year without all the bullshit that you might associate with France and Spain and despite a more transmissible variant...

I think people attribute a lot more sophistication to the ability to control this virus than actually exists.

Asian countries have simply not had to deal with the same issue as many others. That’s not down to any action taken... Something else has prevented them being affected...
 
Yet our lockdown was just as affective as both France and Spain without all of the unnecessary bureaucracy.

I think that goes to show that there’s a whole lot of nonsense talked about ‘lockdown’ and a great deal of unnecessary stuff (particularly outdoor activities) that really doesn’t affect infection rates at all.

I mean the idiots in Spain have people walking around outdoors wearing masks, driving cars (alone) wearing masks etc... All completely and utterly pointless.

There’s no need whatsoever to be overly oppressive. Right now in the U.K. infection rates have been plummeting since New Year without all the bullshit that you might associate with France and Spain and despite a more transmissible variant...

I think people attribute a lot more sophistication to the ability to control this virus than actually exists.

Asian countries have simply not had to deal with the same issue as many others. That’s not down to any action taken... Something else has prevented them being affected...
Yes - Asian countries acted more quickly and harder.

....but you will not accept this even though it’s obvious.
 
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