The reality of Reform being in positions of power

Jaffa_The_Hut said:
I wonder if Reform would ever do a monumental U turn like the present Government just have on benefits.

Embarrassing.
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You're wondering if Reform would try and push through a bill without full support......?
Even though EVERY party had problems with it and it would have been killed off no matter what?

All you have seen is democracy in action.......The Government now have to alter and extend the bill so it doesn't affect people currently receiving PiP
It will get through with some changes, and it will shave £20b off the benefits budget.....I thought you right wingers would love that?
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
You're wondering if Reform would try and push through a bill without full support......?
Even though EVERY party had problems with it and it would have been killed off no matter what?

All you have seen is democracy in action.......The Government now have to alter and extend the bill so it doesn't affect people currently receiving PiP
It will get through with some changes, and it will shave £20b off the benefits budget.....I thought you right wingers would love that?
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Thing is I agree with Starmer 100% on this.

Far too many benefit cheats in this country which is costing millions and it needs addressing.

Shame these 120 odd MP’s don’t see it that way and are happy to spunk away millions of public money.
 
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gjr said:
After a while coming on here with a fixed view on every topic either left wing or right wing becomes tedious and futile.
Be a lot more interesting if people were open minded and varied it a bit.
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indeed. The Tories ended up being corrupt and self serving the rich, Labour have made a disastrous start and are Reform really ready and able to make any sort of impression on the many issues and problems this country has? I doubt it.

But it's the Labour lefty luvvies on here that seem to be in denial about how bad a job Starmer is doing. He promised so much with his hard line stance and it's now coming back to bite him on pretty much every single policy he's tried to adopt.
 
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20togo said:
in

indeed. The Tories ended up being corrupt and self serving the rich, Labour have made a disastrous start and are Reform really ready and able to make any sort of impression on the many issues and problems this country has? I doubt it.

But it's the Labour lefty luvvies on here that seem to be in denial about how bad a job Starmer is doing. He promised so much with his hard line stance and it's now coming back to bite him on pretty much every single policy he's tried to adopt.
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The main problem with Starmer he has no great vision for the UK, add to that his lack of charisma with the demeanor of an accounts department manager and you are left with a lame duck, uninspiring PM.
Seems to me he is in power for the sake of it, going through the motions. He's picked up some free suits and glasses but what is his plan to make life better for the majority?
Don't want to particularly single him out as he follows on from some absolute shockers with the threat of a narcissistic control freak leading a party of amateurs waiting in the wings!
If i could i would seriously consider leaving the country along with all the wealthy people that JJ says have done a runner!!
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
Time and time again, there's clear evidence that the stuff you post is either flat-out wrong or so heavily skewed in favour of Reform, it might as well have a picture of Nigel Farage stamped on it.

Now you're saying: "Prove it. All I've found says no info released... If you made it up, just say so."

How about applying that same standard to your own posts?
Maybe try and question the sources you blindly parrot before expecting everyone else to jump through hoops.
A link to GB News or some half-baked X post isn’t “proof” — it’s just right wing propaganda dressed up as facts.
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He said it but I couldn't find anything about it.

I often post links to where the news has come from, that'll involve x and others but come from a news source generally, or journalists who happen to be posting on social media.

Not sure if you're aware, but that's how the world works now, you dont just day oh i read it in a paper, you problbie the link, either adjust or stop moaning about it.

If you don't like the sources I and others use like gb news, which is perfectly valid, that's your problem.
 
It's probably Godwin's Law.......
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

We could call it JJ's Law
"As an AVFTT discussion descends into Far Right Propaganda, the probability of JJ posting a GB News or an X video is guaranteed to happen.
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
It's probably Godwin's Law.......
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

We could call it JJ's Law
"As an AVFTT discussion descends into Far Right Propaganda, the probability of JJ posting a GB News or an X video is guaranteed to happen.
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There you go with your far right labels, you clearly haven't got a clue what far right is.

According to you it's people with views now shared by many millions and by the most popular party in the UK.

You're clearly a woke lunatic, who TF are you to be trying to label people like that.
 
JJpool said:
There you go with your far right labels, you clearly haven't got a clue what far right is.

According to you it's people with views now shared by many millions and by the most popular party in the UK.

You're clearly a woke lunatic, who TF are you to be trying to label people like that.
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Not a hint of irony in the sentence

"You're clearly a woke lunatic, who TF are you to be trying to label people like that."
 
Wizaard said:
Not a hint of irony in the sentence

"You're clearly a woke lunatic, who TF are you to be trying to label people like that."
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Except I'm just responding to his attacks at me. I don't just go out and call people names based on what they post. Bit of a difference between a woke lunatic and dangerous far right labels.
 
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JJpool said:
There you go with your far right labels, you clearly haven't got a clue what far right is.

According to you it's people with views now shared by many millions and by the most popular party in the UK.

You're clearly a woke lunatic, who TF are you to be trying to label people like that.
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JJ, seriously, you have posted Yaxley-Lennon videos, you have spouted far right dog whistle nonsense and your entire argument seems to be… “immigrants out”

If we’re in America, you would be wearing a MAGA hat and demanding that anyone who voted for Karmela or can’t list 6 generations of European ancestors be deported back to where they came from…

But JJ, Im not bothered by your politics, you are 100% entitled to believe in Reform, Yaxley-Lennon and space aliens….come back with facts, real reason “why’ and you WILL convince people

I’m only trying to reply with a bit of funny sarcasm, you’re an excellent poster on here…if you were like some of the angry little man brigade, I would have stuck you on ignore long ago.

As for being “Far Left”…..or even “Left”….not really…anti-reform, anti-MAGA…anti-any political parties that are telling you they would like to be this country’s next dictator.
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
JJ, seriously, you have posted Yaxley-Lennon videos, you have spouted far right dog whistle nonsense and your entire argument seems to be… “immigrants out”

If we’re in America, you would be wearing a MAGA hat and demanding that anyone who voted for Karmela or can’t list 6 generations of European ancestors be deported back to where they came from…

But JJ, Im not bothered by your politics, you are 100% entitled to believe in Reform, Yaxley-Lennon and space aliens….come back with facts, real reason “why’ and you WILL convince people

I’m only trying to reply with a bit of funny sarcasm, you’re an excellent poster on here…if you were like some of the angry little man brigade, I would have stuck you on ignore long ago.

As for being “Far Left”…..or even “Left”….not really…anti-reform, anti-MAGA…anti-any political parties that are telling you they would like to be this country’s next dictator.
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I'd say some of the "angry little man brigade" are very much on the "left" side of the debate. The question is do you see that or because you are to the "left" yourself you don't want to see it that way. Let's face, rightly or wrongly there were a lot of angry people posting on here when the Tories were in power.

Just an observation and making a valid point.
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
JJ, seriously, you have posted Yaxley-Lennon videos, you have spouted far right dog whistle nonsense and your entire argument seems to be… “immigrants out”

If we’re in America, you would be wearing a MAGA hat and demanding that anyone who voted for Karmela or can’t list 6 generations of European ancestors be deported back to where they came from…

But JJ, Im not bothered by your politics, you are 100% entitled to believe in Reform, Yaxley-Lennon and space aliens….come back with facts, real reason “why’ and you WILL convince people

I’m only trying to reply with a bit of funny sarcasm, you’re an excellent poster on here…if you were like some of the angry little man brigade, I would have stuck you on ignore long ago.

As for being “Far Left”…..or even “Left”….not really…anti-reform, anti-MAGA…anti-any political parties that are telling you they would like to be this country’s next dictator.
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And? Its been relevant give the grooming gangs. He's not the monster the media made him out to be. He actually had to fend off the genuine far right is his early days.

No you just made that up with your warped view of me. Illegal immigrants yes, as they're...Illegal.

Legal we shouldn't be having so many, but I have always said a lower number, high skilled system can be beneficial. That's what we were promised with yhe points based system. There wasn't really an issue in the past.

No I wouldn't.

Anyway. Should just be able to say agree to disagree without coming out with insults.

This far right nonesense, the real far right is small but there, normal people watching gb news and voting reform aren't them, they're just normal people.
 
I see Uncle Rupert has just launched his new political party (which isn’t a political party) and has the backing of Elon.

And Uncle Ben has done the same.

This should split the Reform vote very nicely.
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
JJ, seriously, you have posted Yaxley-Lennon videos, you have spouted far right dog whistle nonsense and your entire argument seems to be… “immigrants out”

If we’re in America, you would be wearing a MAGA hat and demanding that anyone who voted for Karmela or can’t list 6 generations of European ancestors be deported back to where they came from…

But JJ, Im not bothered by your politics, you are 100% entitled to believe in Reform, Yaxley-Lennon and space aliens….come back with facts, real reason “why’ and you WILL convince people

I’m only trying to reply with a bit of funny sarcasm, you’re an excellent poster on here…if you were like some of the angry little man brigade, I would have stuck you on ignore long ago.

As for being “Far Left”…..or even “Left”….not really…anti-reform, anti-MAGA…anti-any political parties that are telling you they would like to be this country’s next dictator.
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If Trump forces through his latest heritage right to vote, his own kids by Ivana would miss out.

The man is a complete idiot.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I see Uncle Rupert has just launched his new political party (which isn’t a political party) and has the backing of Elon.

And Uncle Ben has done the same.

This should split the Reform vote very nicely.
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"Deputy Leader of Reform until July 2024, Ben Habib has announced Advance UK with the aim of building “a proud, independent, and prosperous UK” whilst standing for “nation, freedom, democracy, and equality under the law”. Thin on the ground in terms of policy as you would expect, Advance’s new website has a leading mission statement pleading to “help us mend broken Britain”.


Meanwhile, Rupert Lowe, MP for Great Yarmouth, was one of five Reform MPs elected this time last year. However, after allegations of bullying and an ongoing public spat with Nigel Farage, fuelled by Elon Musk, Lowe was suspended from the party in March. With an axe to grind and a far-right support base to tap into - he has launched Restore Britain advocating “low tax, small state, slash immigration, protect British culture, restore Christian principles, carpet-bomb the cancer of wokery, fight lawfare, empower individual enterprise, and plenty more”.

Seemingly even further to the right than Reform and Advance, Restore how outlined its belief in ‘net negative migration’, including the deportation of legal foreign nationals “who cannot speak English”. Alongside this, deportation of all illegal immigrants, banning of the burqa, and the restoration of the death penalty are the only four policies of the party so far. Despite this lack of detail - it appears to be enough to have earned the support of Elon…"

Poor old Nige has lost Elon's support, where wil his next million come from?

So who are the right to support now, Reform, Advance UK or Restore Britain?
 
Tangerinemoss said:
"Deputy Leader of Reform until July 2024, Ben Habib has announced Advance UK with the aim of building “a proud, independent, and prosperous UK” whilst standing for “nation, freedom, democracy, and equality under the law”. Thin on the ground in terms of policy as you would expect, Advance’s new website has a leading mission statement pleading to “help us mend broken Britain”.


Meanwhile, Rupert Lowe, MP for Great Yarmouth, was one of five Reform MPs elected this time last year. However, after allegations of bullying and an ongoing public spat with Nigel Farage, fuelled by Elon Musk, Lowe was suspended from the party in March. With an axe to grind and a far-right support base to tap into - he has launched Restore Britain advocating “low tax, small state, slash immigration, protect British culture, restore Christian principles, carpet-bomb the cancer of wokery, fight lawfare, empower individual enterprise, and plenty more”.

Seemingly even further to the right than Reform and Advance, Restore how outlined its belief in ‘net negative migration’, including the deportation of legal foreign nationals “who cannot speak English”. Alongside this, deportation of all illegal immigrants, banning of the burqa, and the restoration of the death penalty are the only four policies of the party so far. Despite this lack of detail - it appears to be enough to have earned the support of Elon…"

Poor old Nige has lost Elon's support, where wil his next million come from?

So who are the right to support now, Reform, Advance UK or Restore Britain?
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I dunno Mossy.

It’s a right old melon scratcher that’s for sure.
 
JJpool said:
It might grab 0.3% or so.
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Source for the 0.3% figure please.

And does it factor in the impact of Restore Britain receiving loads of dosh from Elon?

And the flood of activists thinking of leaving Reform for Restore?

Elon by the way is getting feisty again. Attacking Uncle Nige’s mate over his Big Beautiful bill that’ll add trillions to US debt.

Riveting stuff and evidence, if it’s needed, that the Far Right (apologies for the hurty words) really couldn’t run a bath.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Source for the 0.3% figure please.

And does it factor in the impact of Restore Britain receiving loads of dosh from Elon?

And the flood of activists thinking of leaving Reform for Restore?

Elon by the way is getting feisty again. Attacking Uncle Nige’s mate over his Big Beautiful bill that’ll add trillions to US debt.

Riveting stuff and evidence, if it’s needed, that the Far Right (apologies for the hurty words) really couldn’t run a bath.
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It's a guess... maybe read it again.

BTW they're more radical than Reform so it'll just make Reform seem like the sensible choice to many. But whoknows maybe it'll be good.

But if they build up a movement and it means they hold reform to some things then no issue.

It took a long time to build up the presence of reform with Nigel and his previous parties tying into it all.

But you're right hopefully it continues to shift that overton window.
 
Reform won a ton of Councillors across the country- and that’s democracy in action. But the same thing happened with UKIP - going from very few to working majorities in a flash - and it crumbled almost as quickly because those entering local politics had no insight into what the role would require, no appetite from process, no willingness to tow the line and in many cases hasn’t been vetted. Many (not all) jumped on board for as a protest, to be part of a movement, act on conviction etc but they essentially won by accident.

I work in policy within local government. Last week I had to brief our Council leader on one of a dozen or so agenda items for one or a dozen or so meetings he will have attended that week. The papers for that single meeting were 900 pages long. Can you imagine having that dropped on your desk, over and over again? With stakes decisions to be made with budget implications, various competing pressures etc. Stating the obvious it’s a serious business trying to run a town/city/region with a tight budget, angry residents and multiple competing priorities and - whatever you think of politicians - it requires people who at the very least know what they have signed up for.

So when the political newbie Warwickshire leader quits after five weeks and people start asking questions, I’d suggest they are the right questions to ask. It is a massive job and not something to play around with because you are vexed/frustrated with huge National/international issues which can’t remotely be addressed without doubling everyone’s income tax, NICs and Council tax, having influence in the Commons and the backing of big business. Labour are clearly struggling on many fronts but there’s no denying they have received a hospital pass - an demanding populous in a country that can no longer afford its own standard of living- and every subsequent govt will have the same issue, regardless of where they sit on the political spectrum.

Some of the new Reform councillors will be serious politicians who will do the hard yards to make democracy work- good luck then. None of them will be able to ‘stop the boats’ or ‘take the country back’. The inevitable FU responses to this will be along the lines of cut red tape, bureaucracy etc, give them time to learn etc but bins need to be collected, roads kept free of gridlock, schools kept open and social care provided for our vulnerable friends and family members. It’s tough work

Your choice is Brucey vs. Mad Mick. Or a season ticket holder who travels away vs. a big game occasional who gets pissed and misses kick-off. Handing over the country to the good lads down the pub might offer some light relief for 5 minutes but when the reality sets in, nobody is going to be grateful for that particular vote of confidence, including the poor sods now responsible for keeping the lights on, protecting your kids and making sure everyone can vote in a free and fair local/regional/national election
 
poolko said:
Reform won a ton of Councillors across the country- and that’s democracy in action. But the same thing happened with UKIP - going from very few to working majorities in a flash - and it crumbled almost as quickly because those entering local politics had no insight into what the role would require, no appetite from process, no willingness to tow the line and in many cases hasn’t been vetted. Many (not all) jumped on board for as a protest, to be part of a movement, act on conviction etc but they essentially won by accident.

I work in policy within local government. Last week I had to brief our Council leader on one of a dozen or so agenda items for one or a dozen or so meetings he will have attended that week. The papers for that single meeting were 900 pages long. Can you imagine having that dropped on your desk, over and over again? With stakes decisions to be made with budget implications, various competing pressures etc. Stating the obvious it’s a serious business trying to run a town/city/region with a tight budget, angry residents and multiple competing priorities and - whatever you think of politicians - it requires people who at the very least know what they have signed up for.

So when the political newbie Warwickshire leader quits after five weeks and people start asking questions, I’d suggest they are the right questions to ask. It is a massive job and not something to play around with because you are vexed/frustrated with huge National/international issues which can’t remotely be addressed without doubling everyone’s income tax, NICs and Council tax, having influence in the Commons and the backing of big business. Labour are clearly struggling on many fronts but there’s no denying they have received a hospital pass - an demanding populous in a country that can no longer afford its own standard of living- and every subsequent govt will have the same issue, regardless of where they sit on the political spectrum.

Some of the new Reform councillors will be serious politicians who will do the hard yards to make democracy work- good luck then. None of them will be able to ‘stop the boats’ or ‘take the country back’. The inevitable FU responses to this will be along the lines of cut red tape, bureaucracy etc, give them time to learn etc but bins need to be collected, roads kept free of gridlock, schools kept open and social care provided for our vulnerable friends and family members. It’s tough work

Your choice is Brucey vs. Mad Mick. Or a season ticket holder who travels away vs. a big game occasional who gets pissed and misses kick-off. Handing over the country to the good lads down the pub might offer some light relief for 5 minutes but when the reality sets in, nobody is going to be grateful for that particular vote of confidence, including the poor sods now responsible for keeping the lights on, protecting your kids and making sure everyone can vote in a free and fair local/regional/national election
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I see the Chief Executive of Warwickshire CC refused to remove the Pride flag during Pride Month.

One policy and they couldnt manage that. Nigel has called for her to be sacked.

She has responded with , There is no current council policy that says flags are to be removed. Have a vote if you’re that bothered. Reform are the largest party but don't have a majority.

Democracy. It’s a faff.
 
Wizaard said:
I see the Chief Executive of Warwickshire CC refused to remove the Pride flag during Pride Month.

One policy and they couldnt manage that. Nigel has called for her to be sacked.

She has responded with , There is no current council policy that says flags are to be removed. Have a vote if you’re that bothered. Reform are the largest party but don't have a majority.

Democracy. It’s a faff.
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How's that their fault?

It showed that these unelected people think they can overrule the elected and that won't go down well.

Let's see how they deal with it. Right now they're only showing people what the barries to change really are.
 
JJpool said:
How's that their fault?

It showed that these unelected people think they can overrule the elected and that won't go down well.

Let's see how they deal with it. Right now they're only showing people what the barries to change really are.
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No. It shows that Reform don't understand you need a vote to make changes.

And if you think flying a flag is a barrier to change, isn't that a bit snowflakey?

It's not Presidential decree.
 
Wizaard said:
No. It shows that Reform don't understand you need a vote to make changes.

And if you think flying a flag is a barrier to change, isn't that a bit snowflakey?

It's not Presidential decree.
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It shows they have woke people with warped priorities going against what people who voted want.

I'm sure they'll sort it.
 
JJpool said:
How's that their fault?

It showed that these unelected people think they can overrule the elected and that won't go down well.

Let's see how they deal with it. Right now they're only showing people what the barries to change really are.
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The CEO’s job is to implement policy. As has been said, there’s currently no policy on the removal of flags in that area. If Reform want a policy they should arrange for a vote on the issue and if it’s passed then it becomes policy. You don’t create a policy just by the leader of one party calling for it. We’re not a dictatorship.

And maybe the local residents prefer councillors to spend time dealing with matters that actually impact on their lives? Rather than debating, and voting, on flags? Maybe that’s why Reform are not pressing for a vote? Because it’s not very important to locals and they know a vote would backfire even if they won?
 
Mexboroseasider said:
The CEO’s job is to implement policy. As has been said, there’s currently no policy on the removal of flags in that area. If Reform want a policy they should arrange for a vote on the issue and if it’s passed then it becomes policy. You don’t create a policy just by the leader of one party calling for it. We’re not a dictatorship.

And maybe the local residents prefer councillors to spend time dealing with matters that actually impact on their lives? Rather than debating, and voting, on flags? Maybe that’s why Reform are not pressing for a vote? Because it’s not very important to locals and they know a vote would backfire even if they won?
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She probably implementing her own agenda.

Why would it backfire? This was one of their policies and they won.
 
JJpool said:
She probably implementing her own agenda.

Why would it backfire? This was one of their policies and they won.
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Probably...

Or sticking to current Council policy which is to fly appropriate flags to a set time frame.
 
In JJ's defence, many of the reform councillors have no experience in our arcane systems. They'll learn quick enough what is possible and what is not.

You do have to give them 6 months or so to learn the rules and identify what can be achieved and what needs collaboration. Ask someone like Lost how long it takes to appreciate these nuances
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Source for the 0.3% figure please.

And does it factor in the impact of Restore Britain receiving loads of dosh from Elon?

And the flood of activists thinking of leaving Reform for Restore?

Elon by the way is getting feisty again. Attacking Uncle Nige’s mate over his Big Beautiful bill that’ll add trillions to US debt.

Riveting stuff and evidence, if it’s needed, that the Far Right (apologies for the hurty words) really couldn’t run a bath.
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Trump is considering deporting Musk, which would be an interesting call.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
"Deputy Leader of Reform until July 2024, Ben Habib has announced Advance UK with the aim of building “a proud, independent, and prosperous UK” whilst standing for “nation, freedom, democracy, and equality under the law”. Thin on the ground in terms of policy as you would expect, Advance’s new website has a leading mission statement pleading to “help us mend broken Britain”.


Meanwhile, Rupert Lowe, MP for Great Yarmouth, was one of five Reform MPs elected this time last year. However, after allegations of bullying and an ongoing public spat with Nigel Farage, fuelled by Elon Musk, Lowe was suspended from the party in March. With an axe to grind and a far-right support base to tap into - he has launched Restore Britain advocating “low tax, small state, slash immigration, protect British culture, restore Christian principles, carpet-bomb the cancer of wokery, fight lawfare, empower individual enterprise, and plenty more”.

Seemingly even further to the right than Reform and Advance, Restore how outlined its belief in ‘net negative migration’, including the deportation of legal foreign nationals “who cannot speak English”. Alongside this, deportation of all illegal immigrants, banning of the burqa, and the restoration of the death penalty are the only four policies of the party so far. Despite this lack of detail - it appears to be enough to have earned the support of Elon…"

Poor old Nige has lost Elon's support, where wil his next million come from?

So who are the right to support now, Reform, Advance UK or Restore Britain?
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Labour are a vote for the right aren't they

Screwing the disabled and making old people freeze

Hardly left wing policy that
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Quite possibly, but as a moderate leftie, some of their policies are quite extreme. Some posters on here who say they are going top vote Green may not be aware of their manifesto.

Currently politically homeless
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Wonder if Reform will stick to their promise of bringing in PR should they get elected?
The Greens believe the same but can't see them ever getting in power.

So like the last GE voting for Webb knowing too well we'd get the stench of Starmer my vote would go to Reform, otherwise put me in the politically homeless camp also.
 
So if the council need to have a debate/vote to decide to not display a certain flag am I right in thinking they had a debate/vote in the first place to decide they could display it? They are great value for money these civil servants aren’t they 👍
 
Killingmesoftly said:
So if the council need to have a debate/vote to decide to not display a certain flag am I right in thinking they had a debate/vote in the first place to decide they could display it? They are great value for money these civil servants aren’t they
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It's called democracy, pain, isn't it?
 
Killingmesoftly said:
So if the council need to have a debate/vote to decide to not display a certain flag am I right in thinking they had a debate/vote in the first place to decide they could display it? They are great value for money these civil servants aren’t they
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No idea but if there was I imagine it didn’t involve “civil servants” and went something like this.

After a long 3 or 4 hour council meeting (after the day job) the councillors get to “any other business”.

Someone says

“It’s Pride week next week. Should we fly the rainbow flag?”

“That’s a nice idea.”

“Is that a proposal?”

“Err yes”

“Vote. Those in favour. Passed unanimously. I appreciate it’s almost 10pm but is anyone staying for tea and biscuits?”
 
Killingmesoftly said:
So if the council need to have a debate/vote to decide to not display a certain flag am I right in thinking they had a debate/vote in the first place to decide they could display it? They are great value for money these civil servants aren’t they
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Councillors are not civil servants.

Basic politics.
 
Killingmesoftly said:
So if the council need to have a debate/vote to decide to not display a certain flag am I right in thinking they had a debate/vote in the first place to decide they could display it? They are great value for money these civil servants aren’t they
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Scruge of the country and money drain
 
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