The Summer Transfer Thread - Part 2.

fcblackpool said:
Interesting.

I agree btw, but where does a fee stop being value for a reasonable return. At 2m I can't see us getting massive money even if he does well. Of course there is the cship to change that, but no guarantees of getting then staying there.

I'd say 500k is the max where a good return is practically possible.
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Didn't we pay about a million for Joseph?
 
fcblackpool said:
Interesting.

I agree btw, but where does a fee stop being value for a reasonable return. At 2m I can't see us getting massive money even if he does well. Of course there is the cship to change that, but no guarantees of getting then staying there.

I'd say 500k is the max where a good return is practically possible.
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What do you mean by a 'return'? For a football club that must mean wins, improved performances, bums on seats and promotion. If those things happen then you've got your return.
 
fcblackpool said:
Interesting.

I agree btw, but where does a fee stop being value for a reasonable return. At 2m I can't see us getting massive money even if he does well. Of course there is the cship to change that, but no guarantees of getting then staying there.

I'd say 500k is the max where a good return is practically possible.
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As a club that doesn't have the resources (or the size of fanbase) to spend huge fees, I would have to agree. 500k is probably a bit conservative, but from my point of view laying out £2m on Taylor would be idiotic from a business point of view.

As fans, it would be brilliant of course, but in terms of value for money and getting out of this league, 700k each for 3 players represents a far more realistic and effective tactic surely.
 
Seasider99 said:
As a club that doesn't have the resources (or the size of fanbase) to spend huge fees, I would have to agree. 500k is probably a bit conservative, but from my point of view laying out £2m on Taylor would be idiotic from a business point of view.

As fans, it would be brilliant of course, but in terms of value for money and getting out of this league, 700k each for 3 players represents a far more realistic and effective tactic surely.
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Agree entirely. Too many fans have ridiculous expectations on fees.
 
Seasider99 said:
As a club that doesn't have the resources (or the size of fanbase) to spend huge fees, I would have to agree. 500k is probably a bit conservative, but from my point of view laying out £2m on Taylor would be idiotic from a business point of view.

As fans, it would be brilliant of course, but in terms of value for money and getting out of this league, 700k each for 3 players represents a far more realistic and effective tactic surely.
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It depends on the quality of player you could get for 700k. You might as well say, why pay £90 million for a Christiano Ronaldo when for that same money you could buy 3 Rashfords.
 
Albert Ross said:
It depends on the quality of player you could get for 700k. You might as well say, why pay £90 million for a Christiano Ronaldo when for that same money you could buy 3 Rashfords.
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That's very true. But in securing Brown for a rumoured 400k and Ennis for 300kish it's clearly more than possible to get quality for that price. Just the case of looking in the right place and doing our homework.
 
Seasider99 said:
As a club that doesn't have the resources (or the size of fanbase) to spend huge fees, I would have to agree. 500k is probably a bit conservative, but from my point of view laying out £2m on Taylor would be idiotic from a business point of view.

As fans, it would be brilliant of course, but in terms of value for money and getting out of this league, 700k each for 3 players represents a far more realistic and effective tactic surely.
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That may be generally true, but we have had some windfalls lately and getting a goalscoring forward, who is ready for this league will always be difficult and expensive for us.
It’s a calculated gamble and if the wages aren’t too high there should be a very good chance of recouping this money and more.
SB probably won’t be here for long and he will want to have a very good season.
AND there’s a very good chance it’s only a false rumour anyway.
 
Seasider99 said:
That's very true. But in securing Brown for a rumoured 400k and Ennis for 300kish it's clearly more than possible to get quality for that price. Just the case of looking in the right place and doing our homework.
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Why are you so worried about Sadler paying 2 million for a player? It's app to him and if he has the money from the sale of Apter and still money in the transfer budget why not? If every club stuck to your mantra all clubs would be sniffing around the up to £500k mark and no more. We don't know what financial condition Simon is in either. Just because he closed his hedge fund business doesn't mean he's sat there feeling sorry for himself and just taking the interest on his funds We don't know, but I expect he is out there in some new venture or ventures and he could be raking it in. He may also be accumulating a squad to gain promotion and then may look to sell. I bet you he isn't poorer than when he took over the club and I expect he is a lot wealthier.
 
hertfordseasider said:
Why are you so worried about Sadler paying 2 million for a player? It's app to him and if he has the money from the sale of Apter and still money in the transfer budget why not? If every club stuck to your mantra all clubs would be sniffing around the up to £500k mark and no more. We don't know what financial condition Simon is in either. Just because he closed his hedge fund business doesn't mean he's sat there feeling sorry for himself and just taking the interest on his funds We don't know, but I expect he is out there in some new venture or ventures and he could be raking it in. He may also be accumulating a squad to gain promotion and then may look to sell. I bet you he isn't poorer than when he took over the club and I expect he is a lot wealthier.
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I'm not worried about him spending that amount whatsoever, but it's highly unlikely he will, and the reason why (as I've said) is because it doesn't represent an effective strategy for a side like us.

The most we've spent on a fee so far this summer is 400k, and we've brought in some quality additions. You really think Sadler is going to pay 5-6 times that on 1 player? And nor do we need to (as the quality of those signings proves).

Several quality additions at lower (but still fairly significant) prices is the way to go at this level. When we're in the Championship, maybe that strategy makes more sense, as it should then become somewhat easier to hold onto our valuable players in the long term anyway.

You can also guarantee that if we spend say £2m on Taylor (which would undoubtedly blow the entire budget we have left) and he does his ACL next week, everybody saying we should be signing him would then be complaining that we've blown all the budget on 1 player, and then expecting us to go and fork out more money on a replacement.

Spending £2m on 1 player at this level for a club of our size just isn't logical, simple as. And similar to what we've all said regarding Charlton signing Apter this week, it's potential you're paying for and it represents a huge gamble. I don't want to gamble, I want to get out of this crap league. Give me 3-4 signings of proven quality League 1 players over 1 wow signing any day of the week.
 
glasshalffull said:
That may be generally true, but we have had some windfalls lately and getting a goalscoring forward, who is ready for this league will always be difficult and expensive for us.
It’s a calculated gamble and if the wages aren’t too high there should be a very good chance of recouping this money and more.
SB probably won’t be here for long and he will want to have a very good season.
AND there’s a very good chance it’s only a false rumour anyway.
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I do take that point, but to risk reiterating something that has been spoke about on here a lot, on that basis give me Jerry over Taylor any day of the week. He's proven at this level, we all know he would score 20 with his eyes shut.

Yes Taylor is clearly an excellent player and has a far higher ceiling than Jerry does, but until we get out of this league it's not about bringing potential in or players for the future, it's about bringing those in who will give us success in the here and now.

The signings we've made this summer compared to previous seasons clearly show that Sadler is thinking along those lines also. Proven quality brought in as a general rule, not gambles.
 
Seasider99 said:
I'm not worried about him spending that amount whatsoever, but it's highly unlikely he will, and the reason why (as I've said) is because it doesn't represent an effective strategy for a side like us.

The most we've spent on a fee so far this summer is 400k, and we've brought in some quality additions. You really think Sadler is going to pay 5-6 times that on 1 player? And nor do we need to (as the quality of those signings proves).

Several quality additions at lower (but still fairly significant) prices is the way to go at this level. When we're in the Championship, maybe that strategy makes more sense, as it should then become somewhat easier to hold onto our valuable players in the long term anyway.

You can also guarantee that if we spend say £2m on Taylor (which would undoubtedly blow the entire budget we have left) and he does his ACL next week, everybody saying we should be signing him would then be complaining that we've blown all the budget on 1 player, and then expecting us to go and fork out more money on a replacement.

Spending £2m on 1 player at this level for a club of our size just isn't logical, simple as. And similar to what we've all said regarding Charlton signing Apter this week, it's potential you're paying for and it represents a huge gamble. I don't want to gamble, I want to get out of this crap league. Give me 3-4 signings of proven quality League 1 players over 1 wow signing any day of the week.
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How do you know there isn't the budget there for 4 more players in the range you say and the 2 million?. Any player could do an ACL, even one who is 100 million or if they are free, that's a ridiculous comment. All this "Club of our size"; it's as big as SS can afford or is prepared to spend. If he wants to spend 2 million then that's up to him. He may not, but to call us a club of our size is just the sort of thing we shouldn't be thinking.
 
Seasider99 said:
I do take that point, but to risk reiterating something that has been spoke about on here a lot, on that basis give me Jerry over Taylor any day of the week. He's proven at this level, we all know he would score 20 with his eyes shut.

Yes Taylor is clearly an excellent player and has a far higher ceiling than Jerry does, but until we get out of this league it's not about bringing potential in or players for the future, it's about bringing those in who will give us success in the here and now.

The signings we've made this summer compared to previous seasons clearly show that Sadler is thinking along those lines also. Proven quality brought in as a general rule, not gambles.
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We need a mix of experience and potentially great young players, we have only bought experienced in so far apart from Imray, who is on loan, we need to get some younger players in now and your comments about Yates is pure speculation, what if he did his ACL in the first game? 😎
 
hertfordseasider said:
How do you know there isn't the budget there for 4 more players in the range you say and the 2 million?. Any player could do an ACL, even one who is 100 million or if they are free, that's a ridiculous comment. All this "Club of our size"; it's as big as SS can afford or is prepared to spend. If he wants to spend 2 million then that's up to him. He may not, but to call us a club of our size is just the sort of thing we shouldn't be thinking.
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Because quite clearly there isn't the budget for those things.

And it's not a ridiculous comment whatsoever when interpreted in context. Yes anybody can do an ACL, but if your star player that you've spent £2m on suffers it (and you've skimped on spending elsewhere because you've spent so much on him), clearly that will have a much larger impact on our season than having brought 3-4 in of a similar ability (but still better than what we have now) and one of them suffers the same injury.

In terms of "club of our size", it's basic economics. We can only spend within our means. The fact of the matter is we aren't a Bolton or a Cardiff who could potentially get 20,000 fans in each week, we will barely get half that, and our spending will always reflect that.
 
Seasider99 said:
Because quite clearly there isn't the budget for those things.

And it's not a ridiculous comment whatsoever when interpreted in context. Yes anybody can do an ACL, but if your star player that you've spent £2m on suffers it (and you've skimped on spending elsewhere because you've spent so much on him), clearly that will have a much larger impact on our season than having brought 3-4 in of a similar ability (but still better than what we have now) and one of them suffers the same injury.

In terms of "club of our size", it's basic economics. We can only spend within our means. The fact of the matter is we aren't a Bolton or a Cardiff who could potentially get 20,000 fans in each week, we will barely get half that, and our spending will always reflect that.
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We can only spend what Sadler is prepared to spend

So you would be happier if we spent £800k on Yates plus a large signing on fee and wages that would take the deal to as must as the Taylore price and has no resale value whatsoever than a 21 year old who, if he has a couple of good seasons could be worth considerably more than he was bought for.
 
hertfordseasider said:
We need a mix of experience and potentially great young players, we have only bought experienced in so far apart from Imray, who is on loan, we need to get some younger players in now and your comments about Yates is pure speculation, what if he did his ACL in the first game?
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It would make less difference to us, as his cost would be far lower than that of Taylor, meaning players of a similar quality can also be brought through the door, rather than relying on 1 player.

I get the point you're trying to make, but anyone who genuinely thinks we will be spending £2m on Taylor when we still need another 3/4 quality players is living on a different planet quite frankly.
 
Seasider99 said:
It would make less difference to us, as his cost would be far lower than that of Taylor, meaning players of a similar quality can also be brought through the door, rather than relying on 1 player.

I get the point you're trying to make, but anyone who genuinely thinks we will be spending £2m on Taylor when we still need another 3/4 quality players is living on a different planet quite frankly.
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You want quality young players like Taylor you need to pay up if you want top 2
 
Seasider99 said:
I do take that point, but to risk reiterating something that has been spoke about on here a lot, on that basis give me Jerry over Taylor any day of the week. He's proven at this level, we all know he would score 20 with his eyes shut.

Yes Taylor is clearly an excellent player and has a far higher ceiling than Jerry does, but until we get out of this league it's not about bringing potential in or players for the future, it's about bringing those in who will give us success in the here and now.

The signings we've made this summer compared to previous seasons clearly show that Sadler is thinking along those lines also. Proven quality brought in as a general rule, not gambles.
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Not sure either will be signed in the end to be honest, but I think they are probably both likely to deliver at this level, Taylor likely to improve on last season and JY if all is well with him could be on fire in this set up.
Happy with either, but we all know the more they are rumoured and discussed on here, especially if there is a long delay, then these type of players will have options and then we just have to be realistic about our place in the food chain.
 
glasshalffull said:
Not sure either will be signed in the end to be honest, but I think they are probably both likely to deliver at this level, Taylor likely to improve on last season and JY if all is well with him could be on fire in this set up.
Happy with either, but we all know the more they are rumoured and discussed on here, especially if there is a long delay, then these type of players will have options and then we just have to be realistic about our place in the food chain.
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I’m aware that Taylor is virtually sealed. Season loan.
 
Not sure we’ll end up with another LB or RB, nor do I think we really need one (at least I think it’s a distant 5-6th on the list).

LW (x2), striker, RW for depth - 4 in. 2 loans and 2 permanent.

Another CB - I’d rather play Husband at LB in a 4 than st CB.
 
Seasider99 said:
Because quite clearly there isn't the budget for those things.

And it's not a ridiculous comment whatsoever when interpreted in context. Yes anybody can do an ACL, but if your star player that you've spent £2m on suffers it (and you've skimped on spending elsewhere because you've spent so much on him), clearly that will have a much larger impact on our season than having brought 3-4 in of a similar ability (but still better than what we have now) and one of them suffers the same injury.

In terms of "club of our size", it's basic economics. We can only spend within our means. The fact of the matter is we aren't a Bolton or a Cardiff who could potentially get 20,000 fans in each week, we will barely get half that, and our spending will always reflect that.
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We can spend as much as we want

There‘s plenty of small fan based Clubs ‚spending above their means‘ allegedly
 
Camberwell1 said:
We can spend as much as we want

There‘s plenty of small fan based Clubs ‚spending above their means‘ allegedly
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No there aren't. I literally cannot think of a single example other than Wrexham, which will no doubt end in the owners pulling out when they lose interest.

Other than that you've got the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth who are on paper smaller clubs than us, but the amount of Premier League money they're receiving through broadcasting rights and player sales means they've now become self sufficient at that level, therefore not spending above their means.

There are very few/no examples to what you're referring to, for good reason.
 
Seasider99 said:
No there aren't. I literally cannot think of a single example other than Wrexham, which will no doubt end in the owners pulling out when they lose interest.

Other than that you've got the likes of Brentford and Bournemouth who are on paper smaller clubs than us, but the amount of Premier League money they're receiving through broadcasting rights and player sales means they've now become self sufficient at that level, therefore not spending above their means.

There are very few/no examples to what you're referring to, for good reason.
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Oh thanks you Mr Football
 
Although everyone gets excited about the possibility of new signings I would like to know if Bruce hopes some of the fringe players step up and become regulars.
He has given them the incentive of training with the first team where they can learn and be judged against first team regulars. Not all loans, in are better than what we have, e.g Dom Ballard and Silvera
 
tangysider said:
Although everyone gets excited about the possibility of new signings I would like to know if Bruce hopes some of the fringe players step up and become regulars.
He has given them the incentive of training with the first team where they can learn and be judged against first team regulars. Not all loans, in are better than what we have, e.g Dom Ballard and Silvera
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Can you name any fringe players who could make an impact ?? I’m genuinely struggling
 
tangysider said:
Although everyone gets excited about the possibility of new signings I would like to know if Bruce hopes some of the fringe players step up and become regulars.
He has given them the incentive of training with the first team where they can learn and be judged against first team regulars. Not all loans, in are better than what we have, e.g Dom Ballard and Silvera
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I think SB has realised that and it’s all about getting the prime quality cuts on loan as we wouldn’t normally have a chance to get them permanently.
Either that type or the ones we might consider buying if the loan spell does them good (Peacock).
We must have quite a bit left considering, as when SB joined he said that he was going to be backed financially (so said the rumours too) and since then we’ve sold 2 players for over 5 million and lost a few high earners.
I think the quality has to continue otherwise there’ll be that scenario we have had the last two seasons:-
Some prime wagyu beef sitting next to corned beef.
 
TowerPower75 said:
Can you name any fringe players who could make an impact ?? I’m genuinely struggling
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I would say the young lads who were involved yesterday should be kept in and around the squad and be given the odd 10 minutes here and there, just to give them experience (Bondo, Knight, Richardson and Upton). I’m not saying all at once but keep a place in the match day squad open for them . The other fringe players, Zac Ashworth and Ryan Finnegan are two players I think could have a big future at The Pool. This however is only my opinion!
 
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