Rubbish
Thread about the English Channel Tragedy
- Thread starter 1966_and_all_that
- Start date
BigHandsOliverKahn
Well-known member
Did people who voted for Brexit not realise the UK would lose its right to return immigrants to EU countries? Did they not realise that going it alone meant dealing with immigration problems has to be done by the UK on its own? Did this not get repeadly mentioned and got shot down as Project Fear?This is why we can’t put them on ferries and send them back. From the House of Commons library.
Brexit: the end of the Dublin III Regulation in the UK - House of Commons Library
The Dublin III Regulation enabled the UK to return some asylum seekers to EU Member States without considering their asylum claims. It also provided a legal route for reuniting separated asylum-seeking family members in the UK. The Regulation will no longer apply in the UK from the end of this year.commonslibrary.parliament.uk
It's yet another set of chickens coming home to roost. The UK is on its own now. It has to deal with this on its own and stop blaming other countries.
Last edited:
Chunkylad
Well-known member
This only lends credence to the argument that you hear rolled out, that people arrive here for the benefits, housing and free education/medical care.
If on arrival we don’t provide all the above then desperation will lead to crime and unspeakable acts.
Only option the country has is to process quickly - provide all the benefits needed and hope the Neely arrived migrants can find employment ASAP to contribute back to the economy and become part of our society.
Sitting them in a ‘system’ for years just causes more misery and more desperate acts.
I’ve no expertise in this area - do the UK government even consider the skills of the migrants and try to join them up with regions that need those skills? Farming regions need hands etc
Always tangerine
Well-known member
We are short of labour in all areas , thousands of vacancies for nurses , care assts plus all the other areas we know about. 60 per cent plus are granted refugee status but are kept waiting in the system often , if not always , for over a year. Net immigration was around 50k in the last year , down. from much higher. I'm sure we could use many of these refugees which would allow them to contribute. Schools may also be under less pressure of places now with many EU migrants having left.
RUSTY_2_STANDS
Well-known member
Show us the legislation that says a country can't return immigrants
Jaffa_The_Hut
Well-known member
BigHandsOliverKahn
Well-known member
The UK has no agreements in place with France to do so. Just a reminder of what the UK public voted to give up:
---
The Dublin III Regulation enabled the UK to return some asylum seekers to EU Member States without considering their asylum claims.
The 'Dublin III Regulation’ and all other aspects of the Common European Asylum System will no longer apply to the UK from January 2021.
The UK lost access to EU funding for asylum and immigration initiatives. This has been used, for example, to support Home Office activities related to asylum, refugee resettlement, immigration enforcement, and to provide funding for some NGO-led projects focusing on integration.
---
The UK is on its own now. Deal with it.
Jaffa_The_Hut
Well-known member
If we just dumped them back on the French beaches then it becomes a French problem.
There you go it’s dealt with why all the fuss?
catinstalbans
Well-known member
So what is your considered and intelligently developed argument to support such an opinion?
Jaffa_The_Hut
Well-known member
His opinion is he’s anti UK.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
The Refugee Convention 1951
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
No he didn’t. Look at post 68 and the attachment taken from the House of Commons library.
Jaffa_The_Hut
Well-known member
The Frogs don’t even invite us t
Listen the Frogs don’t even bother inviting us to meetings on immigration anymore and it’s do with us more than anyone else so stuff them and stuff post 68 and it’s attachments simples.
Listen the Frogs don’t even bother inviting us to meetings on immigration anymore and it’s do with us more than anyone else so stuff them and stuff post 68 and it’s attachments simples.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
I sense this may not be the best time for a reasoned and in depth intellectual debate.The Frogs don’t even invite us t
Listen the Frogs don’t even bother inviting us to meetings on immigration anymore and it’s do with us more than anyone else so stuff them and stuff post 68 and it’s attachments simples.
Jaffa_The_Hut
Well-known member
We’ll I’ve not been drinking if you mean
that but no probably not.
Disappointed with a few things that’s happened today.
Tangerinenick
Well-known member
Terrible tragedy.
RUSTY_2_STANDS
Well-known member
Cut and paste again from the master of bullshit
Cheesyleps
Well-known member
Yet people on here routinely express the same sentiments about those who choose not to get the covid jab.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Not BS I’m afraid.
It’s a matter of fact that, as part of the EU, we could return asylum seekers to the EU under the terms of the Dublin agreement. When we left the EU we lost that right.
That’s why Johnson is now asking Macron to agree to a U.K./France bilateral returns agreement. He states it quite clearly in the letter he leaked. The atmosphere being what it is I can’t see Macron being very receptive.
I’ve posted the attached from the House of Commons library already. Unpalatable as it may be the truth is undeniable.
Brexit: the end of the Dublin III Regulation in the UK - House of Commons Library
The Dublin III Regulation enabled the UK to return some asylum seekers to EU Member States without considering their asylum claims. It also provided a legal route for reuniting separated asylum-seeking family members in the UK. The Regulation will no longer apply in the UK from the end of this year.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk
Chunkylad
Well-known member
Does that mean I can move to France and they can’t stop me?
I like this new rule.
BigHandsOliverKahn
Well-known member
Good question actually. We don't tend to hear about people illegally moving in the opposite direction. There will be some for sure that go under the radar the other way. Try it out and let us know how you get on!
Chunkylad
Well-known member
I like the idea that someone in a hovel in Preston or Govan can rock up in St Tropez and demand asylum
catinstalbans
Well-known member
Read this
Until I left Prague for the UK on the kindertransport in June 1939, I lived in Prague with my parents.
The Germans occupied Prague in March 1939. My father, who was Jewish, left immediately for the UK. In June, my mother, having been refused permission to leave, put me on a kindertransport train with a knapsack of food for the journey – which I forgot to open. I can still clearly see my mother in my mind standing on the platform waving me off, surrounded by German soldiers in uniforms and swastikas. Of course for many of the parents waving their children off that day, it was the last time they ever saw them.
We travelled in carriages of 6-8. We had hard wooden seats to sit and sleep on. It was no great hardship for us – we were children and didn’t mind sleeping on the benches. Children fleeing war today face much greater hardship than we did back in 1939.
It took us one and a half days to get to the Dutch border by train and two days to get to Liverpool Street. Although the journey seemed interminably long to me, there is no comparison with the journey being undertaken by thousands of children today. For many of them the journey can take years and is fraught with danger, uncertainty and the threat of abduction, or worse.
When we reached the Dutch border I remember the older children on the train cheering – I didn’t know why – I was one of the youngest, if not the youngest child on the train and was looking out for windmills and wooden shoes, which was all I knew about Holland. Only afterwards did I understand that they were cheering because we had reached safety from the Nazis.
From the border the train took us to the Hook of Holland and from there we took a boat to Harwich and then came via train to Liverpool Street.
We all had dog tags to identify us and we were allocated family or foster parents to meet us at Liverpool Street Station. I was lucky in so many ways; my father was waiting for me, I had a roof over my head and a society that welcomed and supported me on my arrival. I was able to enroll in a school to learn English, and my mother was later also able to escape and join us. She arrived in London the day before the war broke out.
Fleeing Prague caused us to lose almost everything of the life we’d had. We left behind our home, almost all our possessions and our extended family and friends, most of whom later perished in the camps. Only a handful of photos came with us on that journey and very little else. But crucially, though ‘torn from home’, we had hope. What we lost was replaced by new opportunities given to us by the new life we were able to forge.
It is a lack of hope which so appalls me about the plight of refugees today. Having visited several camps, in France, in Greece and latterly in Jordan, I have found desperate people, including many lone children, who have no prospect of finding a new life. They may have survived the terrible experiences that led them to flee, but just surviving has become their lot. As we remember the terrible events of the Second World War it is my hope that we will also remember the humanity that was shown to children like me – and honour that humanity by standing together and once again welcoming those persecuted by war so they too can have hope for the future.
Not someone who hates Britain at all, just a decent human being who values all human life.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
It's fortunate that the Mods have left this thread open long enough to enable Cat to contribute his important post #126.
Unfortunately, some of the posts leading up to it had started to become personal and confrontational...AGAIN!
Can we not find it within us to self-moderate and keep the discussion sensible and intelligent?
Unfortunately, some of the posts leading up to it had started to become personal and confrontational...AGAIN!
Can we not find it within us to self-moderate and keep the discussion sensible and intelligent?
Jaffa_The_Hut
Well-known member
Me too.
So your driven out of Prague by the Nazis and you have a BHOK username?
Or is it one the school masters class room guess the person time?
catinstalbans
Well-known member
See post 101 about Alf Dubs. Not anti British as you claim him to be.Me too.
So your driven out of Prague by the Nazis and you have a BHOK username?
Or is it one the school masters class room guess the person time?
20togo
Well-known member
Perhaps you consider personal abuse and non stop criticism of everything about this country "sensible and intelligent". Just a thought.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
No, of course not. What ever the views let's just be a bit more restrained in our posts.
RUSTY_2_STANDS
Well-known member
Why not try it yourself? I'm sure you'd be far happier living in the EU
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
Rusty, see mine at #135. It's good to be civil, honest.
RUSTY_2_STANDS
Well-known member
I take your point 1966 and I agree about being civil. But I don't think my post was abusive to be honest.
BHOK spends so much time criticising just about everything about the UK and praising just about everything
about the EU, particularly his beloved Germany.
According to him, we've got everything wrong in this pandemic and the EU has got everything right.
The reality is both sides have got things right and wrong
In the recent spat between us and France, it was all the UK's fault.
Again in reality both sides have been wrong.
It wasn't a 'why don't you fcuk off and live there' post. It was a genuine question as he does seem so
miserable with everything here in the UK.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
Fair point, well made.
Jaffa_The_Hut
Well-known member
Matesrates
Well-known member
French minister has said the U.K. government has to be more responsible and make it less attractive for migrants to want to come here. How?
The Dutch have agreed with the U.K. that migrants should be returned to the first safe country they arrived in.
The Dutch have agreed with the U.K. that migrants should be returned to the first safe country they arrived in.
Whitstabletangerine
Well-known member
The "first safe country they arrive in" quote is often raised and I am not sure any of us know exactly where that happens to be.
For example I have read that those coming from Iran, Iraq and Syria fly to Instanbul in Turkey which is outside of the EU and then what?
Do they walk the 2,000 miles to Calais? even at 20 miles a day that would take some doing bearing in mind that amongst them are unaccompanied children (some several hundred arrive each month in Kent ), what do they live on and then on reaching Calias they have to pay several thousand euros to the gangs to get them on an inflatable.
I have read reports that those arriving in Turkey pay the gangs to ride in the back of trucks for the three day journey to Calais, via Bulgaria,Romania and the trucks are obviously not checked as they enter the EU, just waved through.
Those coming in from the Sudan and Somalia I understand make for the Gulf states then Instanbul and onwards by truck.
It would appear that some EU countries are turning a blind eye to those transiting their borders and pleased no doubt that France has become the holding centre for those wanting a safer and better life which incidently has been going on for many years now.
France really needs to engage with the EU to get to grips with the situation, there has to be a solution the other side of the channel and in the meantime France should at least provide toilets, runing water and shelter for those in need, not left to fend for themselvdes under plastic sheeting and tents in this weather.
For example I have read that those coming from Iran, Iraq and Syria fly to Instanbul in Turkey which is outside of the EU and then what?
Do they walk the 2,000 miles to Calais? even at 20 miles a day that would take some doing bearing in mind that amongst them are unaccompanied children (some several hundred arrive each month in Kent ), what do they live on and then on reaching Calias they have to pay several thousand euros to the gangs to get them on an inflatable.
I have read reports that those arriving in Turkey pay the gangs to ride in the back of trucks for the three day journey to Calais, via Bulgaria,Romania and the trucks are obviously not checked as they enter the EU, just waved through.
Those coming in from the Sudan and Somalia I understand make for the Gulf states then Instanbul and onwards by truck.
It would appear that some EU countries are turning a blind eye to those transiting their borders and pleased no doubt that France has become the holding centre for those wanting a safer and better life which incidently has been going on for many years now.
France really needs to engage with the EU to get to grips with the situation, there has to be a solution the other side of the channel and in the meantime France should at least provide toilets, runing water and shelter for those in need, not left to fend for themselvdes under plastic sheeting and tents in this weather.
Matesrates
Well-known member
Agree totally
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
And I think you have been just as involved.I’am glad someone else sees it that way thought it was just me.
Look Jaffa, I'm nobody. I just want us to discuss all this stuff without the digs and the petulance. Yes, I've been guilty myself but it's time to play a little more safely....don't you think?
Jaffa_The_Hut
Well-known member
Totally.
No one is ever going to change my views on the current migrant crisis and I’am never going to change anyones views who beg to differ from mine.
I’ve finished on this thread now no matter what gets posted, just hope others do the same and it’s put to bed.
Last edited:
Cheesyleps
Well-known member
Look at a map of Europe and ask yourself how there are battles between Belarus and Poland over migrants from Syria, Afghanistan and North Africa. Not exactly a direct walking route, is it?
Wizaard
Well-known member
Not sure Eagle Day's response of laughter is appropriate.
Wizaard
Well-known member
That's because Putin and Lukoshenko are flying them into Belarus then bussing them to the border in order to provoke the EU and Poland. Obviously.
Cheesyleps
Well-known member
I would add Erdoğan to the list too, but yes, you are right.
That very concept raises lots of uncomfortable questions though, doesn't it?
Why are we not expecting those countries to abide by supposedly fixed international law?
Why do those nations see migrants as a weapon to be used against their enemies in the west, if diversity really is our greatest strength?
Why does the West not have a worldview that has the moral confidence to refuse to play the game?
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
As a matter of interest what “worldview” do you think the West should have?
Cheesyleps
Well-known member
"Liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide. When once this initial and final sentence is understood, everything about liberalism (the beliefs, emotions, and values associated with it, the nature of its enchantment, its practical record, its future) falls into place."
- James Burnham
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society."
- Aristotle
"The society ruled by modern equality is not a society without elites but a society in which the elites recognise no traditional or moral authorities."
-Phillipe Beneton
"Europe's rise is written in terms of Christianity and Monarchy; Europe's decay in terms of progressivism, republicanism, and God-lessness."
-Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn"
I'm not anti UK
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Didn’t James start as a Trotskyite, admire Nazi Germany until it became clear they were going to lose when he switched his allegiance to the USSR, and end up as an American Neo Conservative? Clearly consistent in his political thinking.
The quote from Aristotle is frequently used by White Supremacists but apparently is made up.
Phillipe - which one said that? The rugby player or the philosopher?
Erik - anti Nazi so a
for that. However he also wasn’t that keen on democracy which is shame.So how would you sum up your worldview? In your own words?
Jaffa_The_Hut
Well-known member
Wasn’t referring to you Parker.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
So, having quoted from respected and important philosophers....what's your view?
Cheesyleps
Well-known member
Traditionalist. Monarchist. Catholic. Illiberal.Didn’t James start as a Trotskyite, admire Nazi Germany until it became clear they were going to lose when he switched his allegiance to the USSR, and end up as an American Neo Conservative? Clearly consistent in his political thinking.
The quote from Aristotle is frequently used by White Supremacists but apparently is made up.
Phillipe - which one said that? The rugby player or the philosopher?
Erik - anti Nazi so a
So how would you sum up your worldview? In your own words?
How would you sum up yours?
S
Scaramanga
Guest
Interesting.