Time to swallow your pride Neil

SeasideKurt

Well-known member
A change in system is required as it's too obvious and blatant what we want to do. Cross field passes behind the full back to CJ, this isn't a game plan at all.

We've seen how good Ballard is now, why don't we try a 5-3-2 or 5-3-1-1.

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It allows to drop a striker into the pocket and play Woodburn also if we want to go really attacking. We can't stick with the current system it's looking fancy but it's doing nothing for us defensively or attacking. With this we can bring Husband or Turton into that back three but still have the height we need to defend.
 
At this point something has to change, because it patently isn't working, we are creating absolutely nothing.

My only issue with the above would be the omission of CJ, who has consistently looked the only player we have capable of creating anything in the final third.

I think the only thing we can all be certain on is if Critchley persists with this system, he's gonna be given the boot at some point, because it simply isn't working.
If we were creating a few chances but the ball wasn't dropping in the right place in the box, we were getting deflections or the keepers were making world class saves you could be forgiven for thinking all was ok and it would come.
As it stands the opposition keepers aren't having to do anything.
 
I think you could make 4-3-3 work if you got some basics right.

1) adjust the midfield and get Robson to drive forward more at centre of defence

2) get strikers to rotate more, especially the two wide players.

3) Get a midfielder (probably Virtue) to go beyond Robson and cause their defences to have to think when marking.

It all looks too rigid - I'm not convinced it's the formation per se, but the application of it. I'm also not convinced it's just because the players are shit. It's as if Critch has lost faith with asking the players to do certain things but stuck with the formation regardless.

That said, I think Kurt's formation would give the players a lot more licence to just attack and as for CJ, you could happily play him through the middle. His crossing is poor, his shooting isn't. It's far harder to just mark a central player out of it than a wide player.
 
Good to see finest has come down off the it’ll come good fence at last 👍
I was genuinely hoping it would, given time.
It may still do, but as it stands it doesn't look like it is going to and it would be madness to not change something to try and get a reaction from the players.
 
A change in system is required as it's too obvious and blatant what we want to do. Cross field passes behind the full back to CJ, this isn't a game plan at all.

We've seen how good Ballard is now, why don't we try a 5-3-2 or 5-3-1-1.

View attachment 3236

It allows to drop a striker into the pocket and play Woodburn also if we want to go really attacking. We can't stick with the current system it's looking fancy but it's doing nothing for us defensively or attacking. With this we can bring Husband or Turton into that back three but still have the height we need to defend.
I'll go with the system, but the the midfield is devoid of creativity and the front two are abysmal.
 
He needs to change the formation on Saturday and I agree 5-3-2 suits the players we have.

The thing is, if us fans can see this, why can't the head coach? We rightly scalded Grayson for having no plan B and relying on Feeney to Gnando, but it's looking like Critchley is the same with 4-3-3. The 'boring' football under Grayson at least created chances and got us goals!
 
I've gone for the same formation but Hamilton for Yates, he's our only one who scores.
Woodburn for Ward, ahead Robson and Williams
Turton for Gabriel, simply because Turton has done nothing wrong in recent games.

Ps. How do you get a picture uploaded on here? Tried a screen shot of my team last night and it didn't upload 🤔
 
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I've gone for the same formation but Hamilton for Yates, he's our only one who scores.
Woodburn for Ward, ahead Robson and Williams
Turton for Gabriel, simply because Turton has done nothing in recent games.

Ps. How do you get a picture uploaded on here? Tried a screen shot of my team last night and it didn't upload 🤔
I did it on the formation website and cut and pasted it into this box. I think Yates will naturally run off of Madine rather than CJ who won't be natural in that position.
 
We all got swept away with the pre season signings. Me included. I believe most of the players we’ve signed are actually very talented and have a future with us, some do however seem to be complete busts.

The specific talents we signed have however, locked us into this ineffective formation and style.

I don’t think NC has it in him to change formation now, he has to get this 433 going somehow. td53 makes some good points on that.

I had an interesting conversation this morning, there was a reason the board only signing Woodburn and Ballard until December as opposed to the full season.
 
I agree with 532 although when fit I would have Virtue in for Williams and Kaikai with Madine and Woodburn for Grant. The only problem with that is that CJ, Yates, Garbutt, Luballa, Kemp, Grant, Williams, Dougall are all redundant which when you look at the squad as a whole we have bought in far too many similar players so not enough variety. I also feel sorry for the likes of Nuttall and Hardie, are they any worse than the forwards we have? I’d like their variety up top that’s for sure.

Like Phil said on another thread the squad looks like it’s been put together Football Manager style but you can’t think “oh shit, I’ve got that completely wrong” and just load a new game. I think the club is suffering with a large case of naivety and nexperience from the top down. It’s not easy running a football club Re getting the right people around you particularly on the playing side. The club and infrastructure is in clover, we could only dream of what is happening off the pitch, but that’s easier to get right than being successful on the pitch, that’s why we need to be forgiving or supportive. We can rant all we want on here, it won’t make a jot of difference. Simon Sadler is no fool, he’s invested heavily in NC and he has and will support him but he won’t do it if he knows he has made a mistake he wil be ruthless. He must be gutted at the moment.
 
I can understand 3 CB's in a 5, however, I'd look at 5 across the middle with 1 up top. See if we can go through central areas and actually make a pass in their box.

3 up top needs to binned- the opposition management must be pissing themselves with laughter when they see that.
 
A change in system is required as it's too obvious and blatant what we want to do. Cross field passes behind the full back to CJ, this isn't a game plan at all.

We've seen how good Ballard is now, why don't we try a 5-3-2 or 5-3-1-1.

View attachment 3236

It allows to drop a striker into the pocket and play Woodburn also if we want to go really attacking. We can't stick with the current system it's looking fancy but it's doing nothing for us defensively or attacking. With this we can bring Husband or Turton into that back three but still have the height we need to defend.
Nahh, that's too obvious, it's what's called playing to your strengths.
 
At this point something has to change, because it patently isn't working, we are creating absolutely nothing.

My only issue with the above would be the omission of CJ, who has consistently looked the only player we have capable of creating anything in the final third.

I think the only thing we can all be certain on is if Critchley persists with this system, he's gonna be given the boot at some point, because it simply isn't working.
If we were creating a few chances but the ball wasn't dropping in the right place in the box, we were getting deflections or the keepers were making world class saves you could be forgiven for thinking all was ok and it would come.
As it stands the opposition keepers aren't having to do anything.
Hamilton for Yates!
 
I agree with 532 although when fit I would have Virtue in for Williams and Kaikai with Madine and Woodburn for Grant. The only problem with that is that CJ, Yates, Garbutt, Luballa, Kemp, Grant, Williams, Dougall are all redundant which when you look at the squad as a whole we have bought in far too many similar players so not enough variety. I also feel sorry for the likes of Nuttall and Hardie, are they any worse than the forwards we have? I’d like their variety up top that’s for sure.

Like Phil said on another thread the squad looks like it’s been put together Football Manager style but you can’t think “oh shit, I’ve got that completely wrong” and just load a new game. I think the club is suffering with a large case of naivety and nexperience from the top down. It’s not easy running a football club Re getting the right people around you particularly on the playing side. The club and infrastructure is in clover, we could only dream of what is happening off the pitch, but that’s easier to get right than being successful on the pitch, that’s why we need to be forgiving or supportive. We can rant all we want on here, it won’t make a jot of difference. Simon Sadler is no fool, he’s invested heavily in NC and he has and will support him but he won’t do it if he knows he has made a mistake he wil be ruthless. He must be gutted at the moment.
From what I read Dougall is a better version of Williams.
 
Just said on another couple of threads that even changing to a front two won't imo bring you the goals. We just haven't got two strikers capable of getting a dozen or more goals each.
 
Hamilton for Yates!
I disagree, I actually think Yates playing off the shoulder of Madine would work.

I'd go 442 over 5 at the back purely because I think most of the players would be comfortable with it.

Turton
Ekpiteta
Ballard
Mitchell/Garbutt

CJ
Williams/Dougall
Robson
Woodburn

Madine
Yates

Should be more than capable of picking up points in this division, there is something seriously wrong if it can't.
 
Just said on another couple of threads that even changing to a front two won't imo bring you the goals. We just haven't got two strikers capable of getting a dozen or more goals each.

Strikers are more likely to score if you have some effective means of creating chances...
 
Call me old fashioned but I'd even be tempted to try a 4-4-2 at this point.

In the first half last night we actually looked fairly solid with 2 banks of four behind the ball IMO.
Madine and Yates are both far too isolated when they play up top in the 4-3-3. Let's get them playing as a partnership and Yates making runs off Madine.

CJ and Woodburn/Bez on the wings being direct and getting a supply of crosses into the front two.
Robson in a midfield box to box role, with Williams holding.

All our play is in front of the opposition and all a bit too 'nice'. Let's get the ball in the danger areas for the front two and actually ask some questions of the opposition defence.
 
All our play is in front of the opposition and all a bit too 'nice'. Let's get the ball in the danger areas for the front two and actually ask some questions of the opposition defence.

Exactly the sort of approach you'd expect from a coach who's remit has been to develop kids. Focus on style and shape and less on winning. Doesn't work in first team football...
 
Centre backs, playing at the back centrally. Wingbacks who are expected to be able to defend and cross, need to be able to do both. Playing with a much higher tempo when breaking on teams. Having a plan that doesn't solely depend on CJ out sprinting their entire defence.
 
Just said on another couple of threads that even changing to a front two won't imo bring you the goals. We just haven't got two strikers capable of getting a dozen or more goals each.
Spot on not one of our players has a decent goalscoring record check out Wikipedia player stats.
 
As I've just said on another thread, we are not direct enough.
We should mix it up a bit. Use the long ball more often, instead of the gradual, across the back line stuff which allows the opposition to get all their players back.
 
A change in system is required as it's too obvious and blatant what we want to do. Cross field passes behind the full back to CJ, this isn't a game plan at all.

We've seen how good Ballard is now, why don't we try a 5-3-2 or 5-3-1-1.

View attachment 3236

It allows to drop a striker into the pocket and play Woodburn also if we want to go really attacking. We can't stick with the current system it's looking fancy but it's doing nothing for us defensively or attacking. With this we can bring Husband or Turton into that back three but still have the height we need to defend.
I do not think with effectively a 5 man defence we need a defensive midfielder. So would drop Williams and move Yates to be attacking midfield with licence to run beyond strikers.
CJ I would play alongside Madine so he can run onto knockdown and scare the hell out of CBacks, as let us face it he cannot cross but can shoot on target
 
It's interesting that although we might disagree with how it should be done, most of us agree that a change of formation is necessary. Let's hope Critch will be a bit more flexible from Saturday onwards.
 
It's interesting that although we might disagree with how it should be done, most of us agree that a change of formation is necessary. Let's hope Critch will be a bit more flexible from Saturday onwards.
Unfortunately, no chance.
NC will stick to this style of play ad infinitum.
 
I agree with your logic SeasideKurt and line up for 3-5-2. The current system is just not working .Hamilton is certainly a threat but that threat is constantly being cancelled by doubling up on him. Yates does worry me but I would give him a chance alongside Madine of whom is quality. Woodburn will be a very useful addition.
 
Critchley has the elite coaching badge which only a handful of coaches have. That's great but you would hope that by getting that coveted badge he showed that he could change things round if a formation wasn't working. Now I think he really believes this formation will work and he is going to stick with it come hell or high water until it starts to work, the only problem with that is, what if it doesn't? How long do you give him.

It's all very well having this great qualification but that's in a classroom, this is league 1 football, not Liverpool or the u23's (Although we pretty much are an U23's side) you can't beat a bit of experience and savvy, although that doesn't guarantee success (Grayson) and initially SS was trying to get a manager in that played the game on the deck in an attacking manner but who also had experience.

I thought his appointment was a stroke of genius but as time moves on we are all entitled to change our minds and become concerned that maybe it wasn't as good an appointment as it first appeared. It was risky as he had no first team managerial experience at all, he was a failed football player making one appearance for Crewe. Saying all this I really want him to turn this round and come good, I really do, but SS won't suffer fools for long, he is far too ruthless for that so if we are rank bottom after the next 4 games I can see him being summoned for a chat. It's a real shame. Come on Neil..... turn it round.
 
I'm another who's fallen off the In Critchley We Trust bandwagon, but as Phil said, we are stuck with him.

Lots of calls for formation changes on this thread. I prefer 3-5-2, but I don't care which Critchley tries, as long as he tries something to stop us losing. (Winning is a more distant dream atm!) In the longer term, when the team are bedded in, he might be able to return to 4-3-3, but not now!
 
I'm another who's fallen off the In Critchley We Trust bandwagon, but as Phil said, we are stuck with him.

Lots of calls for formation changes on this thread. I prefer 3-5-2, but I don't care which Critchley tries, as long as he tries something to stop us losing. (Winning is a more distant dream atm!) In the longer term, when the team are bedded in, he might be able to return to 4-3-3, but not now!
Your starting to sound like you have fallen off the grumpy no more bandwagon as well and are now just plain grumpy
 
I think we are currently so ineffective we might as well go for a 5 - 0 - 5.

Bypass midfield altogether and just lump it into the mixer (aka the "Dave Bassett 1991").
 
As I've just said on another thread, we are not direct enough.
We should mix it up a bit. Use the long ball more often, instead of the gradual, across the back line stuff which allows the opposition to get all their players back.
Was going to post similar. Couple of times Maxwell went mega long, and the frontmen were on and through their defence

We need to stop being so predictable
 
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