Today’s bill

T

Threepeaksphil

Well-known member
Labours own predictions are that even the watered down proposals could push 150,000 into poverty 😩 winter fuel, grooming gangs enquiry and disabled people choices you would not expect a labour government to make 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
A yea but no but government, who are now going to tell us what we can and cannot eat. What next? no beer above 3.5 ABV? No wine above 12% ABV?
 
Threepeaksphil said:
Labours own predictions are that even the watered down proposals could push 150,000 into poverty winter fuel, grooming gangs enquiry and disabled people choices you would not expect a labour government to make
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You're back with a bang Phil. I never took you though for one who wants the benefits bill to rise??
You socialist you!
 
We can’t afford to carry on as we were. A 20% rise in working age claiming PIP new claims, last year alone. Mostly in the mental health space.

Out of interest, how did people with say, autism get on before we found out about it and attached that label? This is not a new thing. They got jobs and carried on living as normally as possible.
 
tangerine_neil said:
We can’t afford to carry on as we were. A 20% rise in working age claiming PIP new claims, last year alone. Mostly in the mental health space.

Out of interest, how did people with say, autism get on before we found out about it and attached that label? This is not a new thing. They got jobs and carried on living as normally as possible.
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20togo said:
Just an observation. UK population is around 70 million. Apparently we have 13 million pensioners and 10 million on benefits. And over 14 million children for whom many parents will be getting child benefit. So the country is paying out money to over half the country.

No wonder the country is broke.
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Horse manure x 2 with added bovine malodorous odure. The rates of disability in the UK are perfectly normal and the support we offer well below typical European ones. The UK is not broke even when it's bailing out the banks to the tune of £40 billion a year. I wouldn't be having a pop at child benefir either have you see our live birth data? Poor people had no hand in the current state of affairs.
 
bill40 said:
Horse manure x 2 with added bovine malodorous odure. The rates of disability in the UK are perfectly normal and the support we offer well below typical European ones. The UK is not broke even when it's bailing out the banks to the tune of £40 billion a year. I wouldn't be having a pop at child benefir either have you see our live birth data? Poor people had no hand in the current state of affairs.
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not having a pop at anything. Just an observation.
 
bill40 said:
Horse manure x 2 with added bovine malodorous odure. The rates of disability in the UK are perfectly normal and the support we offer well below typical European ones. The UK is not broke even when it's bailing out the banks to the tune of £40 billion a year. I wouldn't be having a pop at child benefir either have you see our live birth data? Poor people had no hand in the current state of affairs.
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Two wrongs don’t make a right. Of course we shouldn’t have to be bailing out banks to that amount. Just as we shouldn’t ignore the worrying and unsustainable trend of working age people claiming PIP, especially when it will now likely result in tax increases for everyone else, including pensioners.
 
20s is right. I saw that stat the other day. Basically every person in work is having to fund one other person who isn't.

That's a big ask and also driving the unemployment issue where the taxation trap is now weighted too far. For every worthy recipient like TPPhils son there will be some who could work but there's little point as the financial benefit isn't good enough.

It plays a little in Farage's wish of a £20k starting tax position, though lord knows how our economy can be shifted to fund this. Actually is £20k even enough? I'm no expert on benefits but would another £170 a week tax free overcome the benefit of not working and getting a mass of services for free?

Badenoch says that Labour are being too soft on the unemployed and disabled and should go much deeper and much harder (oooohhh sir). So if anyone thinks Labour are potentially being cruel here, then the Conservatives stance would be way harsher (although once again you can ask why the didn't do that when they had 14 years to do it?)
 
Understand the bill

Someone with autism can get Personal Independence Payment (PIP), but it is not automatic…It depends on how their condition affects their daily living and mobility, not the diagnosis itself.

The new bill just removes a large number of people who receive PIP for low level health conditions that are easier to live with (Anxiety, Depression, Seasonal Stress. Etc) it’s become an instant way to boost income on benefits.

It’s a major problem and this bill is something that the Tories were backing….the change is DWP led, as they can see the uptake on this benefit is open to being “Taken Advantage”

This isn’t a truly progressive bill but it’s one that has to pass or in the next few years it’s going to get out of hand and will destroy a generation of workers
 
tangerine_neil said:
We can’t afford to carry on as we were. A 20% rise in working age claiming PIP new claims, last year alone. Mostly in the mental health space.

Out of interest, how did people with say, autism get on before we found out about it and attached that label? This is not a new thing. They got jobs and carried on living as normally as possible.
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Depends on where on the spectrum they were. Some would work as you say, some would be locked up for life in hospitals. There were no halcyon days in the past.
 
Threepeaksphil said:
My son is autistic so I know how difficult it is for disabled folk who really need PIP. As one of the world’s richest countries we should be able to put our arm round pensioners and the disabled
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I have never seen us as a rich country. Anybody that needs to borrow is not rich .The Arab countries are too ich beyond belief.
 
Why are pensioners never questioned about whether they saved enough for their retirement?
It's always 'benefit cheats' that are the problem.
Labels, labels, labels. Everywhere you look. And most of them are half-truths anyway because for every rich pensioner there's plenty who couldn't save a penny and for every cheat there's plenty who can't work.
Happen to agree with Neil, regarding some of these diagnosis. There was obviously a time when people dealt with it and got on. Part of me feels that's because they had no choice and no 'label' to use as an 'acceptable' reason not to work.
 
straightatthewall said:
Why are pensioners never questioned about whether they saved enough for their retirement?
It's always 'benefit cheats' that are the problem.
Labels, labels, labels. Everywhere you look. And most of them are half-truths anyway because for every rich pensioner there's plenty who couldn't save a penny and for every cheat there's plenty who can't work.
Happen to agree with Neil, regarding some of these diagnosis. There was obviously a time when people dealt with it and got on. Part of me feels that's because they had no choice and no 'label' to use as an 'acceptable' reason not to work.
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Covid has a lot to answer for. The out of work and disability claims have shot through the roof when some discovered a different way of living ! Not sustainable.
 
Lala said:
Covid has a lot to answer for. The out of work and disability claims have shot through the roof when some discovered a different way of living ! Not sustainable.
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Well there was also a shit load of bounce back loans - circa £46 bn -paid to businesses in COVID. I wonder how much still needs paying back and how much never will. I bet it wasn't from non-workers and benefit cheats. But I bet there's a lot of people who moan about the latter that aren't paying it back and could easily afford to.
 
straightatthewall said:
Well there was also a shit load of bounce back loans - circa £46 bn -paid to businesses in COVID. I wonder how much still needs paying back and how much never will. I bet it wasn't from non-workers and benefit cheats. But I bet there's a lot of people who moan about the latter that aren't paying it back and could easily afford to.
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I moan about it all. As we should 👍
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
Understand the bill

Someone with autism can get Personal Independence Payment (PIP), but it is not automatic…It depends on how their condition affects their daily living and mobility, not the diagnosis itself.

The new bill just removes a large number of people who receive PIP for low level health conditions that are easier to live with (Anxiety, Depression, Seasonal Stress. Etc) it’s become an instant way to boost income on benefits.

It’s a major problem and this bill is something that the Tories were backing….the change is DWP led, as they can see the uptake on this benefit is open to being “Taken Advantage”

This isn’t a truly progressive bill but it’s one that has to pass or in the next few years it’s going to get out of hand and will destroy a generation of workers
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Great balanced post. I work for Blackpool Council transporting vulnerable adults/children to schools/Day centres. I have a son who was never labelled but we kept him in main stream school and with additional one on one support, progressed & now works full time & is independent. However, I see so many 'entitled' parents & families absolutely bleeding the system dry with overly lenient social workers. One family have a daughter, transported to a Day Centre 5 days a week whilst having a car on what I knew as motorbility, 25 plate, to take the other two kids to mainstream school. Neither parent works & all went to Euro Disney not long ago. 🤔 Something not quite right.
 
tangerine_neil said:
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Of course we shouldn’t have to be bailing out banks to that amount. Just as we shouldn’t ignore the worrying and unsustainable trend of working age people claiming PIP, especially when it will now likely result in tax increases for everyone else, including pensioners.
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If we want European standard public services taxes need to rise to their levels. We feel over taxed becuse gas prices which used to peak at ~60p are now consantly above £3.50 in the middle of a heatwave. This puts up elecricity prices, water companies are gouging us and rents are, pardon the pun, through the roof. This affects everything we pay for. Tax cuts may be fine for very rich people but the outcomes are lousey for most.
 
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