"too many care homes didn't really follow the procedures"

It's been heading that way since Stay Alert was introduced. Implicitly your fault through not staying alert for an invisible airborne virus.

And before the usuals start bleating, some of us pointed this out months ago that the blame would be shifted. "Easy with hindsight" "Negativity" "Doing their best"


Any Tory that utters the word "With the benefit of hindsight" should be sent to the Tower of London.

The nation was screaming at them for lockdown as they blustered "wash your hands" whilst planning for a herd immunity death sentence policy.
 
Did anyone on here actually listen to what Boris said? Of course things have gone massively wrong in care homes. They didn't have enough PPE, they used too many agency care staff moving between homes, they took in infected people from hospitals. Boris rightly said nobody knew enough at that time about how the virus was spreading. He then announced how much money would be pumped into the sector to improve care. Don't let the facts get in the way of your anti-Tory rants though.
 
Did anyone on here actually listen to what Boris said? Of course things have gone massively wrong in care homes. They didn't have enough PPE, they used too many agency care staff moving between homes, they took in infected people from hospitals. Boris rightly said nobody knew enough at that time about how the virus was spreading. He then announced how much money would be pumped into the sector to improve care. Don't let the facts get in the way of your anti-Tory rants though.
Are you serious? No one knew how the virus was spreading? Of course it was known. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.
 
Are you serious? No one knew how the virus was spreading? Of course it was known. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.

I don't think he needs to defend anything Wiz. Clearly the spread of virus by care staff and visitors with no symptoms is one of the main causes of the problem in care homes. So was the transfer of infected persons from hospitals. If you don't know that you must have been hibernating.
 
The two “Ts”, are you the same poster with your warped views of what went on in the care sector?
The truth will out eventually, and Johnson will be dumped by the Nasty Party, for his gross incompetence!
 
The two “Ts”, are you the same poster with your warped views of what went on in the care sector?
The truth will out eventually, and Johnson will be dumped by the Nasty Party, for his gross incompetence!

Things went wrong in care homes in the UK, because of mistakes made by the homes, by the government, by the NHS doctors. I would have thought that was evident to everyone. Care homes globally had problems too. What part of that are you struggling with?
 
Did anyone on here actually listen to what Boris said? Of course things have gone massively wrong in care homes. They didn't have enough PPE, they used too many agency care staff moving between homes, they took in infected people from hospitals. Boris rightly said nobody knew enough at that time about how the virus was spreading. He then announced how much money would be pumped into the sector to improve care. Don't let the facts get in the way of your anti-Tory rants though.
It's been massively underfunded for ten years and the increase is a reactionary headline drop in the ocean.
 
Did anyone on here actually listen to what Boris said? Yes. It was dreadful wasn't it.

Of course things have gone massively wrong in care homes. Yes they have Boris

They didn't have enough PPE, No. None was available because of you Boris.

they used too many agency care staff moving between homes, This is what generally happens in care homes Boris.

they took in infected people from hospitals. They were sent them on your orders Boris

Boris rightly said nobody knew enough at that time about how the virus was spreading. Oh yes they did. Porky pie. The media were ALL OVER it. We were even saying it on here.

He then announced how much money would be pumped into the sector to improve care. The horse has bolted but any investment is welcome I guess.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your anti-Tory rants though. Not ranting. Perfectly healthy discussion. It's only discussion when you agree. When you don't it's "ranting".
 
Underfunded or are the owners putting too much in their own pockets @Lytham_fy8....
It's what you get when you can profit off the elderly.
Cheap labour and bog standard food yet charge thousands per month while owners live life of luxury.

Care homes are not the NHS. They are privately owned businesses charging astronomical fees . Ultimately, they have to accept responsibility for the welfare of their residents.
 
Have to say the comments were beyond crass.
It was the Gov't policies that dumped all these virus ridden patients in the care homes without checking them first in order to free up bed space that wasn't actually ever needed

It was left to the clinical judgment of the doctors to decide whether patients were discharged from hospitals to care homes.
 
See below

On 19 March, NHS guidance said that "unless required to be in hospital, patients must not remain in an NHS bed".

This policy was implemented to free up beds in advance of an expected surge in coronavirus patients.

On 2 April, the rules on discharging to care homes were clarified, saying "negative [coronavirus] tests are not required prior to transfers/admissions into the care home".

Even elderly patients who tested positive could be admitted to care homes, according to the document, if measures - such as wearing personal protective equipment (PPE) and isolation - were used.
 
The Cultists are out Woolly!!! Propogating there distorted views and attempting to cover for their beloved leader.
I wouldn't mind but Boris has now rowed back and said he'd been misinterpreted. Got their defence in too early.
 
On 19 March, NHS guidance said that "unless required to be in hospital, patients must not remain in an NHS bed".

On 14 May Minutes of Sage meeting contains the first mention of asymptomatic individuals and transmission estimating 10% - 35% truely asymptomatic (point 32).

On 7 July BBC reported

"Only 22% of people testing positive for coronavirus reported having symptoms on the day of their test, according to the Office for National Statistics.

This hammers home the importance of "asymptomatic transmission" - spread of the virus by people who aren't aware they're carrying it."



Clearly there was an awful lot that was not known about the virus at the time, on 10 March for example SAGE thought there was maybe 5,000 - 10,000 cases across the country.


This policy was implemented to free up beds in advance of an expected surge in coronavirus patients.

And when you read the minutes from the time SAGE was very worried about the surge overwhelming the NHS so the policy is understandable.

There's also the point that the last place an elderly person wants to be during an epidemic is in hospital surrounded by patients with the disease so it was also in their medical interests to be discharged.

So really the government was f***ed either way, discharge them and risk spreading the virus, or keep them in hospital, sentance them to death and run the risk of overwhelming the NHS.
 
On 14 May Minutes of Sage meeting contains the first mention of asymptomatic individuals and transmission estimating 10% - 35% truely asymptomatic (point 32).

On 7 July BBC reported

"Only 22% of people testing positive for coronavirus reported having symptoms on the day of their test, according to the Office for National Statistics.

This hammers home the importance of "asymptomatic transmission" - spread of the virus by people who aren't aware they're carrying it."



Clearly there was an awful lot that was not known about the virus at the time, on 10 March for example SAGE thought there was maybe 5,000 - 10,000 cases across the country.




And when you read the minutes from the time SAGE was very worried about the surge overwhelming the NHS so the policy is understandable.

There's also the point that the last place an elderly person wants to be during an epidemic is in hospital surrounded by patients with the disease so it was also in their medical interests to be discharged.

So really the government was f***ed either way, discharge them and risk spreading the virus, or keep them in hospital, sentance them to death and run the risk of overwhelming the NHS.

They should have tested them before sending them. End of.
 
Easier said than done bearing in mind the limited testing capacity available at the time.

And who's responsibility was that? Given the WHO were saying test, test and test again and we could see what was going on on mainland Europe who were 2 weeks ahead of us.

This isn't party politics. It's beyond that. It's painful to read people defend the utter shambles, indecision and inaction that has resulted in thousands of OAP's dying because they voted conservative. It's not a game. Its real.
 
Did anyone in government really care enough if a few old biddies died in the care homes?
There would have been adequate PPE available for the care home staff to use had anyone in government cared.

To be fair, I don't think anyone is guilty of not caring.

But when you have weak, untalented politicians presiding over an infrastructure that hasn't seen proper levels of investment in decades, then a number of chickens will inevitably come home to roost. That is what has happened here.
 
And who's responsibility was that? Given the WHO were saying test, test and test again and we could see what was going on on mainland Europe who were 2 weeks ahead of us.

This isn't party politics. It's beyond that. It's painful to read people defend the utter shambles, indecision and inaction that has resulted in thousands of OAP's dying because they voted conservative. It's not a game. Its real.
30,000 unnecessary deaths.
 
Care homes are not the NHS. They are privately owned businesses charging astronomical fees . Ultimately, they have to accept responsibility for the welfare of their residents.
Many are funded by the NHS, which is the point of this investment.
 
Like any business there are care home companies and owners who have screwed staff and patients and the government's calamitous approach gives them something to hide behind

Social care has been a Cinderella service for many years and there have been years of under investment from governments and owners and like Robbie says coronavirus has caused these to be exposed

We acted too late and that's the universally excepted truth ,many lives were lost as a consequence

Think we just need to get it under control before analysis however I'm sure PR will go into overdrive - message will be - celebrate ,Boris has done it,ignore the naysayers, let's look forward not back yadda yadda
 
This isn't party politics. It's beyond that. It's painful to read people defend the utter shambles, indecision and inaction that has resulted in thousands of OAP's dying because they voted conservative. It's not a game. Its real.
iWow just wow. You say this isn't party politics and then make a crass statement that is all about party politics. Jeez, you could even interpret your post as meaning all the OAP's who died only did so because they voted conservative. No they did not. They died because they contracted the corona virus.
 
Jeez, you could even interpret your post as meaning all the OAP's who died only did so because they voted conservative.

I don' t think anyone would reasonably interpret him as meaning that. His punctuation and sentence structure is appalling, though.
 
I don' t think anyone would reasonably interpret him as meaning that. His punctuation and sentence structure is appalling, though.
Oh I agree regarding interpretation of the point he was making but I had to read it twice to establish that.
But no matter, it was still party politics.
 
Looking at what Boris Johnson actually said then looking at his attempt to claim a misunderstanding, just shows what an appalling man he is to blame care homes in the first place and what a shambles he has made of his excuse.
He originally said, "we discovered TOO MANY care homes didn't really follow the procedures in the way that they could have."
Later, in attempting to diffuse the anger at his comments, both Hancock and No. 10 put out statements saying, "what the Prime Minister pointed out was that nobody knew what the correct procedures to put in place were at the time."
So, whilst in his original statement Johnson said that TOO MANY care homes were not following the correct procedures, that must have meant that some were.
How could that be possible if the second statement is accurate in stating that nobody knew what the correct procedures were.
Perhaps the few who got it right had ESP, or a TARDIS. Then again, the later clarification of the PM's words could be total bullshit.
 
So many countries made lots of mistakes. It must be wonderful to have had the answers all along. You could of always nipped into Westminster and given them a push in the right direction.
 
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