Vaccine Passports

Qblock said:
I don’t believe me agreeing to vaccine passports will help the country out of a pandemic. See AK’s post and my response above
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But do you believe vaccines will get the country out of lockdown and lessen the impact of the pandemic by relieving pressure on the NHS?
 
rockontommy said:
Naked coercion/blackmail. Those that have said no up to now aren't going to fold to further threats at this stage. The government would be better off changing tack and offering free STs to the reluctant imho.
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Hmmm well one of my daughters had folded Tommy, rightly or wrongly.
She’s booked tickets for a Warehouse Project gig in November and doesn’t want to start missing out on stuff. She’d still rather not be jabbed but nor does she want no life 💁‍♀️
Booked for the vaccine this Wednesday.
 
Lala said:
Hmmm well one of my daughters had folded Tommy, rightly or wrongly.
She’s booked tickets for a Warehouse Project gig in November and doesn’t want to start missing out on stuff. She’d still rather not be jabbed but nor does she want no life 💁‍♀️
Booked for the vaccine this Wednesday.
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LALA

A shame that she's been put in such a position but I'm sure she'll be fine.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
But do you believe vaccines will get the country out of lockdown and lessen the impact of the pandemic by relieving pressure on the NHS?
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They're definitely helpful in keeping previously vulnerable people out of hospital but there's no need for everyone for take it. It's looking like the vaccines are far less effective once several months have passed so it makes more sense to focus on giving booster jabs to the vulnerable instead of harassing healthy people.
 
BFC_53 said:
I'm generally not in favour of this course of action for a few reasons, not long term anyway. Firstly, we will end up in the UK with a very high % of the population double vaccinated, we're looking at around 88% of the adult population. So the majority of those attending will have been double jabbed anyway. Secondly, a significant proportion of those attending will be children who won't be vaccinated and it hasn't (yet) been made mandatory for them. So I fail to see why you would insist on adults being jabbed when thousands of children will be there spreading it anyway. Thirdly, if we're going to do it for covid, why not flu jabs too, since it's likely Flu will kill as many if not more people than covid in the next twelve months (flu vaccination has nowhere near the take up as the covid vaccination).
I get that Covid has had a huge impact on life and it's only natural people will be nervous, it's at the forefront of everyone's minds. However, It does seem like all rational thought has evaporated in the last 12months, which the mass hysteria caused by the 24hr rolling news channels has helped to propagate.
And i'm saying this as someone who has been double jabbed. I just feel it's unnecessary and coercive. It won't stop at football either. If it is brought in, I sincerely hope it's only until we reach the 88% ish level of vaccination across the adult population. It needs to be a short term temporary measure only.
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It's not mandatory for adults to be vaccinated.

If you choose not to, when you know the consequence then that's your lookout.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Presumably because it was an emergency, asking people to suddenly adopt a healthy lifestyle would hardly have built up immunity within a decade, I presume it was also realism, how many people would have given up the Mcdonalds?

Outside of the pandemic, we literally never shut the fuck up about a healthy lifestyle, but we also deal with realities, not ideals. A lack of pragmatism would collapse the service.
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There has never been more information on the benefits of a healthy lifestyle and there has never been as many unfit, unhealthy, morbidly obese people eating shite and not exercising.
 
The answer is I don’t know. As per AK’s post there doesn’t seem a coherent plan or communication. If someone put one to me I’d reconsider
 
Wizaard said:
There has never been more information on the benefits of a healthy lifestyle and there has never been as many unfit, unhealthy, morbidly obese people eating shite and not exercising.
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Yep

And 'forcing' people to be healthy clearly goes against the FREEDOM CRUSADE of the no vaccine brigade?
 
Anti vax demo in Leeds this afternoon. Maybe 500 there and only one copper assaulted.

Well done.
 
Wizaard said:
There has never been more information on the benefits of a healthy lifestyle and there has never been as many unfit, unhealthy, morbidly obese people eating shite and not exercising.
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Exactly, really pisses me off.
And Lytham accepts that Fatty won’t give up his daily portion of processed crap at Macdonalds, but I am expected to give up another slice of freedom and declare my ‘Health status’
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Yep

And 'forcing' people to be healthy clearly goes against the FREEDOM CRUSADE of the no vaccine brigade?
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No one can force anyone to be healthy. But to a certain extent healthier people (and health can almost always be improved by taking ownership of it) are having to deal with the consequences of those choosing not to be healthy
 
Qblock said:
Exactly, really pisses me off.
And Lytham accepts that Fatty won’t give up his daily portion of processed crap at Macdonalds, but I am expected to give up another slice of freedom and declare my ‘Health status’
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In a word, yes.

It's a pointless vagary that you're clinging on to like it actually means something, what freedom is it that you're being robbed of?
 
Qblock said:
No one can force anyone to be healthy. But to a certain extent healthier people (and health can almost always be improved by taking ownership of it) are having to deal with the consequences of those choosing not to be healthy
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I’m not in the no vaccine brigade. I’m in the no vaccine passport brigade. Big difference
 
Qblock said:
No one can force anyone to be healthy. But to a certain extent healthier people (and health can almost always be improved by taking ownership of it) are having to deal with the consequences of those choosing not to be healthy
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But that's always been the case.

We might well be dealing with the consequences of people not getting vaccinated, unless enough do it, which you know they will, hence we're back at the original point, the people getting the vaccine enable you to make a choice.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
In a word, yes.

It's a pointless vagary that you're clinging on to like it actually means something, what freedom is it that you're being robbed of?
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The freedom to not have to declare what medication I’ve taken? I know that on its own doesn’t seem that significant, but the principle is huge
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
But that's always been the case.

We might well be dealing with the consequences of people not getting vaccinated, unless enough do it, which you know they will, hence we're back at the original point, the people getting the vaccine enable you to make a choice.
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So we just accept it because it’s always been the case? That kind of attitude means nothing ever changes, no one has any accountability
 
Qblock said:
So we just accept it because it’s always been the case? That kind of attitude means nothing ever changes, no one has any accountability
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Indeed.

You appear to have foregone yours, much the same as those who don't look after their health, we can't force people can we? It would take away another of their freedoms.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
You are in the no vaccine brigade currently, you're waiting to see if other people react badly to it.
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I’m in the “ive not yet had it” brigade. I’m not opposed to others having the choice to take it or not take it.
And I’d have thought waiting for more reliable data before making a decision is pretty responsible?
 
Wizaard said:
There has never been more information on the benefits of a healthy lifestyle and there has never been as many unfit, unhealthy, morbidly obese people eating shite and not exercising.
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Like Lockdown 3.0 you mean? When the gyms were closed & Fast food gaffs stayed open?
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Indeed.

You appear to have foregone yours, much the same as those who don't look after their health, we can't force people can we? It would take away another of their freedoms.
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I absolutely haven’t foregone mine, I try to live by accountability. I’m accountable (to a large extent) for my own health, and try to make responsible decisions. And as I’ve said above twice, if someone shows me a sound argument for taking it to protect others (which to my mind doesn’t exist atm) then I’ll reconsider my current position.
Anyway it’s the last few hours of the weekend and I’m sure you’ve done this to death many times so I’ll leave it there. For what it’s worth I think you’re one of the best posters on here, life’s not about agreeing with everyone all the time
 
Qblock said:
I’m in the “ive not yet had it” brigade. I’m not opposed to others having the choice to take it or not take it.
And I’d have thought waiting for more reliable data before making a decision is pretty responsible?
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What data?

They've gone through the trials and have been approved, exactly the same as any other vaccine, which they're modelled on. It's a proven science that's been around for a century and one you've said you already use?
 
Qblock said:
I absolutely haven’t foregone mine, I try to live by accountability. I’m accountable (to a large extent) for my own health, and try to make responsible decisions. And as I’ve said above twice, if someone shows me a sound argument for taking it to protect others (which to my mind doesn’t exist atm) then I’ll reconsider my current position.
Anyway it’s the last few hours of the weekend and I’m sure you’ve done this to death many times so I’ll leave it there. For what it’s worth I think you’re one of the best posters on here, life’s not about agreeing with everyone all the time
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Oh I know fella, it's only a discussion, I'm not sure I'm right either, take it easy 👍
 
Adams Kebab said:
Like Lockdown 3.0 you mean? When the gyms were closed & Fast food gaffs stayed open?
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Or golf clubs which is outside and gives thousands of elderly exercise every week what idiot thought through that policy up.

I hate the seat belt comparison also I wear shoes to protect my feet,gloves my hands and a seat belt if I have a crash but a vaccine which is doing fuck all for me as a fit healthy under 50 year old as I've had Covid ill for a couple of days also a mate of mine double jabbed has tested positive twice with no problems.
 
poolseasider said:
Or golf clubs which is outside and gives thousands of elderly exercise every week what idiot thought through that policy up.

I hate the seat belt comparison also I wear shoes to protect my feet,gloves my hands and a seat belt if I have a crash but a vaccine which is doing fuck all for me as a fit healthy under 50 year old as I've had Covid ill for a couple of days also a mate of mine double jabbed has tested positive twice with no problems.
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Golf courses being closed was ridiculous & made no sense but was done because if golf opened then other sports would have created noise to be allowed to open, so a blanket ban was put in place.

This week, rakes are now allowed back in bunkers, you can now take the flag out on the green and you can now swap scorecards for competitions. Scary times!

It’s restrictions like these that have done my nut in.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Golf courses being closed was ridiculous & made no sense but was done because if golf opened then other sports would have created noise to be allowed to open, so a blanket ban was put in place.

This week, rakes are now allowed back in bunkers, you can now take the flag out on the green and you can now swap scorecards for competitions. Scary times!

It’s restrictions like these that have done my nut in.
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As a fisherman Lockdown 1 and we where stopped from going jeez if someone comes within 2 meters of you your tackle is going to get caught up fuckin idiotic. 😁
 
Wizaard said:
It's not mandatory for adults to be vaccinated.

If you choose not to, when you know the consequence then that's your lookout.
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My bad.... I meant to say that it isn't being offered to children yet, rather than not being made mandatory. But the fact remains that none of the children attending will have had a jab so I can't really see much point in vaccine passports for adults, given that we'll be talking about tiny numbers of adults attending that haven't had a jab. It's very OTT and won't achieve anything.
 
Lala said:
Hmmm well one of my daughters had folded Tommy, rightly or wrongly.
She’s booked tickets for a Warehouse Project gig in November and doesn’t want to start missing out on stuff. She’d still rather not be jabbed but nor does she want no life 💁‍♀️
Booked for the vaccine this Wednesday.
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Long post incoming and not really aimed at you but spinning off from off your post.....

Im pretty sure that's what this is about, giving the youngsters a nudge.

Is it unethical, maybe slightly but from a government perspective when you want normality as quick as possible and the more who have the vaccine the better its hardly a surprising tactic.

The vaccines whilst having some side affects are proving to be very low risk. The pfizer one which the youngsters will have without the blood clot risk as high also is even less a worry.

We know the lower down the age range the less benefit vs risk there is for the vaccines. But the problem is we don't know who will react badly. Also long covid and other complications don't sound pleasant.

It may be that without the vaccine lots will be fine but to be almost sure you aren't going to hospital, the vaccine does that, yes we can still catch it.

We must remember this vaccine was designed with the first strain in mind and thats why whilst the severe protection is still there the protection against catching it is lessened.

But after 2 jabs there is still a lesser chance of getting it and of passing it on, as they say if your less ill you produce less virus. I think it was 60 % less likely to catch it. So when you add in the numbers if the whole country did have it, or a large majority, it would squeeze the virus eventually downwards.

This may be what we're seeing somewhat now, as despite being fully open, we've seen cases go down for a bit now, it may rise again once the full unlocking is seen, but thats how this herd immunity works.

The virus is hitting walls more and more whether vaccinated people not getting it, or some getting it but spreading it less or the same with people who have had covid already.

Deaths and hospitalisations are the important measure but we don't want, if we can help it, a large number of cases as it only helps the virus mutate and who knows where it can go, hopefully like so far the mutations don't fundamentally change the vaccine response but its certainly possible it could change more.

As for deaths and hospitalisations it speaks for itself and the science cant be denied on the vaccine working there.

Yes its not a perfect vaccine like some, where your 100% safe but id say its pretty encouraging and reassuring.

The passport side of it would be a piss take and just can't see it coming in.

As for people who say its not safe well we can't wait 10 years for long trials, if everyone had taken the approach of wait and see we'd be in a bad place, the NHS would at times be full of people with covid and basic accidents etc would become potentially fatal, thats the NHS overwhelmed argument, which is sound if it happens. Ironically we've seen some of that anyway with the putting of of treatments and important treatments should still have been done.

That doesn't mean the way we have reacted has been the only way or in some cases well thought out. Weve had complete contradictions and there was no reason they shouldn't have followed their science, football fans outside being low risk for eg yet we had to wear masks and distance or couldn't go at all. Stuff like that made zero sense.

Also there is a ton of issues outside covid because of the response to covid like mental health etc.

We had to open up for businesses sake and put trust in the vaccine programme.

So anyway there is evidence of reduced transmission so that is the evidence some people claim thy wanted to see, that having the vaccine increases the protection to others. Not full proof, but its there.

Also there are many who underestimated covid and only once in hospital have apparently begged for the vaccine before being put on a ventilator. But obviously its too late then.

I imagine its quite a scary moment that, thinking it could be your last.

So its about the balance of risk, if your over 18 or the older you get the benefit from protection begins to far outweigh any risk from the vaccine side affects.

One problem I have with such scrutiny on people saying they won't have the vaccine is you often see them happily downing beer, have they studied its long term affects? Same with food, there's tons of shit in food and god knows what long term affects it has. But yet that's happily glossed over yet people scrutinise the vaccine which has a proven benefit of keeping most people from hospital and dying. Its fair to scrutinise but were all a bit hypocritical as we dont all check every food label and see weird ingredients we have no idea how will impact us.

We shouldn't force people but the weight of evidence and the balance of risk to me, says get the thing, get the scientifically proven protection from serious illness, peace of mind and get on with our lives.

Plus as said, the proven lessening of infection spreading which helps the more who have it and more downward pressure on the virus, the quicker the country gets back to normal and the less excuses the government have to try and implement any more silly ideas.
 
JJpool said:
The vaccines whilst having some side affects are proving to be very low risk.
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No they are not proving to be very low risk at all. This injection is now the single most dangerous vaccine that has ever been produced. 1470 people have died due to this vaccine in the United Kingdom and that is just the ones that have been reported. 1,059,307 adverse reactions recorded in the United Kingdom and thats just the ones that have been recorded.Many people wont be aware of the MHRA yellow card reporting system so will not register their reactions. To give some context the swine flu vaccine was pulled after 50 deaths.We are now into nearly 1500 deaths in this country with another 11,500 deaths in the US and 30,000 deaths across Europe. This injection should be paused with immediate effect and investigated.
 
Ormergod said:
No they are not proving to be very low risk at all. This injection is now the single most dangerous vaccine that has ever been produced. 1470 people have died due to this vaccine in the United Kingdom and that is just the ones that have been reported. 1,059,307 adverse reactions recorded in the United Kingdom and thats just the ones that have been recorded.Many people wont be aware of the MHRA yellow card reporting system so will not register their reactions. To give some context the swine flu vaccine was pulled after 50 deaths.We are now into nearly 1500 deaths in this country with another 11,500 deaths in the US and 30,000 deaths across Europe. This injection should be paused with immediate effect and investigated.
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What’s your source? I’ve read that these figures are not true and are simply being interpreted wrongly on social media. People have died after having the vaccine, but the deaths are not attributed to it.

I’m sure the media would be all over it if those figures were true.
 
Lala said:
Hmmm well one of my daughters had folded Tommy, rightly or wrongly.
She’s booked tickets for a Warehouse Project gig in November and doesn’t want to start missing out on stuff. She’d still rather not be jabbed but nor does she want no life 💁‍♀️
Booked for the vaccine this Wednesday.
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Sorry to hear that lala. There's a few at my work that have had it for the sole purpose of going on holiday this summer and are now double annoyed because they can't go. Hopefully your daughter gets to go to her gig.
 
Qblock said:
I’m in the “ive not yet had it” brigade. I’m not opposed to others having the choice to take it or not take it.
And I’d have thought waiting for more reliable data before making a decision is pretty responsible?
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What more reliable data are you actually waiting for?

An alien planet invasion to come down and tell us the vaccines are fine or the hundreds of millions of people around the world who have had it already and have little side effects and now have a great chance of not dying?

The cynical approach is just for absolute dickheads unless you have a medical reason. The data you're searching for, is already there. You're just attention seeking.
 
Ormergod said:
No they are not proving to be very low risk at all. This injection is now the single most dangerous vaccine that has ever been produced. 1470 people have died due to this vaccine in the United Kingdom and that is just the ones that have been reported. 1,059,307 adverse reactions recorded in the United Kingdom and thats just the ones that have been recorded.Many people wont be aware of the MHRA yellow card reporting system so will not register their reactions. To give some context the swine flu vaccine was pulled after 50 deaths.We are now into nearly 1500 deaths in this country with another 11,500 deaths in the US and 30,000 deaths across Europe. This injection should be paused with immediate effect and investigated.
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Can you give a link for the 1470 people that have died 100% because of the vaccine? You're talking ** rubbish and I actually believe in censorship for stuff like this. There's enough idiots on the internet, without you.

You've got this from the statistic where people have died within 14 days of having the vaccine but that could be anything at all. Worst post I've seen on COVID so far. Well done.
 
SeasideKurt said:
What more reliable data are you actually waiting for?

An alien planet invasion to come down and tell us the vaccines are fine or the hundreds of millions of people around the world who have had it already and have little side effects and now have a great chance of not dying?

The cynical approach is just for absolute dickheads unless you have a medical reason. The data you're searching for, is already there. You're just attention seeking.
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Your cynical = my sensible.

I’m not a dickhead, and certainly not seeking attention. You need to look at how you engage with those who disagree with you
 
Qblock said:
Your cynical = my sensible.

I’m not a dickhead, and certainly not seeking attention. You need to look at how you engage with those who disagree with you
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No, you are cynical. How can you be sensible when the NATIONAL MEDICAL advice is to take the vaccine? By people who are far more qualified than you or I to talk science and vaccinations?

You are 100% cyncical, you couldn't even answer my question. You're the problem here, not anyone else.

By all means, human rights, don't take the vaccine but don't come onto a public forum and give some absolute wank reasons for not taking it.

Attention seeking 100%.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Golf courses being closed was ridiculous & made no sense but was done because if golf opened then other sports would have created noise to be allowed to open, so a blanket ban was put in place.

This week, rakes are now allowed back in bunkers, you can now take the flag out on the green and you can now swap scorecards for competitions. Scary times!

It’s restrictions like these that have done my nut in.
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Scotland saw sense and golf was permitted during the second lockdown. It didn't seem to cause any problems.
 
SeasideKurt said:
No, you are cynical. How can you be sensible when the NATIONAL MEDICAL advice is to take the vaccine? By people who are far more qualified than you or I to talk science and vaccinations?

You are 100% cyncical, you couldn't even answer my question. You're the problem here, not anyone else.

By all means, human rights, don't take the vaccine but don't come onto a public forum and give some absolute wank reasons for not taking it.

Attention seeking 100%.
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I actually came on this thread to discuss the ethics of vaccine passports, if you read through my posts properly
 
Matesrates said:
What’s your source? I’ve read that these figures are not true and are simply being interpreted wrongly on social media. People have died after having the vaccine, but the deaths are not attributed to it.

I’m sure the media would be all over it if those figures were true.
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VAERS | Vaccine Safety | CDC

VAERS is the national vaccine safety monitoring system that accepts reports of adverse events after vaccination. The system can quickly detect potential safety issues with vaccines.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
 
A quick look at that table shows 999 people die, but the outcome cannot be determined as directly due to the vaccine. They had just had it recently.
 
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