You can't blame them really as they are nearly all facing her when the flag goes up.If you mean their 2nd it was the correct decision all round. The only people at fault were West Brom’s defenders for not playing to the whistle.
First lesson you get as a junior in football play to the whistle.You can't blame them really as they are nearly all facing her when the flag goes up.
It's a natural reaction.
Correct-both the ref and linesperson worked together and made a decision.Not excusing the Baggies players, but I thought that if the flag went up and the ref acknowledged the offside call, and blew his whistle as he did, that was it. The goal had to be disallowed. VAR should not haver been used.
The only way VAR could be enacted would be for the linesperson to have kept her flag down.
Wrong. The referee did not blow the whistle for offside, as confirmed by the commentators in the analysis at the time.Correct-both the ref and linesperson worked together and made a decision.
All VAR has done is take away some of the responsibility from the officials and taken refereeing into the stands/VAR centre,and the game is fast disappearing into something different.
People like Alan Shearer are to blame for this in demanding that video links were introduced to 'get the right decision' and it hasnt worked.
He did-watch the video again.He raised his arm too which indicates its an indirect free kick for offside and pointed across the line (of the offside)Wrong. The referee did not blow the whistle for offside, as confirmed by the commentators in the analysis at the time.
People like Alan Shearer? Why signal just him out for blame when nearly every manager in every after match interview banged on about video technology for ages and ages. They are the ones.People like Alan Shearer are to blame for this in demanding that video links were introduced to 'get the right decision' and it hasnt worked.
I agree (on the general point) but Shearer was the most vocal of pundits on this after a career of trying every trick in the book to gain an advantage, and in my view was a contributory factor into us getting VAR in the first place.People like Alan Shearer? Why signal just him out for blame when nearly every manager in every after match interview banged on about video technology for ages and ages. They are the ones.
I'm off to check Shearers goal record against Leeds...he must have bagged a few to be the culprit here
I don’t agree Plumbs, he let play continue and develop so both Man City and WBA could attack and defend respectively. Once the ball had gone ‘dead’ he made his decision that the player was offside, as the play had been allowed to develop, both sides had been given the opportunity to play the situation. After the ball was dead and a decision made VAR was brought in to check the official’s decision, there was clear evidence that the lad was onside, WBA had been given the opportunity to defend the play by the Ref who has ultimate control of the game, the assistants are into there to guide him.He did-watch the video again.He raised his arm too which indicates its an indirect free kick for offside and pointed across the line (of the offside)
He was overruled by the VAR who therefore took the decision away from him (and the liner) which for me undermines his authority.
Edit:double checked and what I'm saying is correct 0:46
Like you said-he made his decision-and in that respect that decision was the one made on the field. The laws say 'in the opinion of the referee' but that's been tainted now because of the VAR nonsense and undermines the officials.I don’t agree Plumbs, he let play continue and develop so both Man City and WBA could attack and defend respectively. Once the ball had gone ‘dead’ he made his decision that the player was offside, as the play had been allowed to develop, both sides had been given the opportunity to play the situation. After the ball was dead and a decision made VAR was brought in to check the official’s decision, there was clear evidence that the lad was onside, WBA had been given the opportunity to defend the play by the Ref who has ultimate control of the game, the assistants are into there to guide him.
The liner was wrong, the Ref was correct, VAR was used correctly, the outcome was correct.
Having said all that the way the powers that be have executed VAR has been a shambles. There’s little excuse that it’s a new technology in the game, as more or less every other major sport in the world issues similar technology in their game. The PL should and still could take the best bits of its use in different sports and apply it to the PL.
There’s a lot wrong with VAR I’ll grant you.Like you said-he made his decision-and in that respect that decision was the one made on the field. The laws say 'in the opinion of the referee' but that's been tainted now because of the VAR nonsense and undermines the officials.
There was no need to use VAR in this instance and the whole commotion has been caused by its use, and in my view the wrong decision was made by the use of VAR in this case.
The basic premise is correct-absolutely- but the game of football has never been (or was indeed designed to be) slide rule precise getting every decision correct. Most experienced referees and players accept the spirit of the game, which allows a margin of error because so many decisions have to be made on the spot.There’s a lot wrong with VAR I’ll grant you.
But isn’t the basic premise correct, and applies in this case that human error was corrected for the correct out come on the pitch, which wouldn’t have been possible without a VAR check.
I completely agree with what you’ve said there.The basic premise is correct-absolutely- but the game of football has never been (or was indeed designed to be) slide rule precise getting every decision correct. Most experienced referees and players accept the spirit of the game, which allows a margin of error because so many decisions have to be made on the spot.
The TV audiences dont understand how football works and seem to want something akin to the NFL model, which simply panders to the sofa sitting clique who probably want a drinks breaks so they can nip to the fridge for another Bud.
The laws of the game have always upheld the authority of the officials and aside from some notable historical errors, its been ticking along nicely until TV knocked into its foundations.
As Brian Clough said it would all those years ago.
You've already posted all that crap before. Just another moaning scouser. who doesn't like England and United.feel sorry for liverpool var has made so many wrong calls against them why wasnt var called to the non free kick against them with the dive from a utd player as usual?Man u are only second to spurs in the diving stakes yet no one is calling them out because they are very good at it but at the end of the day a dive is a dive no matter how good the quality of it.Because sala is rubbish at it he has been labelled and now doesnt gey free kicks he should .Rashford and kane are the biggest cheats in the prem but they are english say no more
So now we've got TV audiences( who get blamed for everything else so why not), the NFL and Alan Shearer all in your firing line?The TV audiences dont understand how football works and seem to want something akin to the NFL model, which simply panders to the sofa sitting clique who probably want a drinks breaks so they can nip to the fridge for another Bud.
There was no need to use VAR in this instance and the whole commotion has been caused by its use, and in my view the wrong decision was made by the use of VAR in this case.
There's different elements that are responsible for the different aspects of how the game is going, but on VAR as I've said (the bit you've missed-smiley) its becoming clear the right decisions arent being made. More to the point its,affecting the experience for match going fans as pointed out by Wolves fans at the FSA meet.So now we've got TV audiences( who get blamed for everything else so why not), the NFL and Alan Shearer all in your firing line?
How can anything be the wrong decision if it gets the right decision? I must be missing something because your an intelligent poster.
I've checked on big Al and the first thing that came up was Leeds were his favourite side to score against!
Ref doesn’t do anything until ball is in net.....he THEN blows for offside....that is as clear as day Plumbs.He did-watch the video again.He raised his arm too which indicates its an indirect free kick for offside and pointed across the line (of the offside)
He was overruled by the VAR who therefore took the decision away from him (and the liner) which for me undermines his authority.
Edit:double checked and what I'm saying is correct 0:46
Yep spot on. In the case it's purely down to the official. She unfortunately got it wrong but she will know that and of course shouldn't be thrown to the wolves because of it. VAR official probably had no choice but to alert the ref. It would have been preferable to just let WBA have the free kick but inevitably it would have been picked up by all the tv companies and could have become a bigger furore than it is now.Considering that all season, the linesmen (or women) have been instructed to leave the flag down until the move has concluded to avoid that exact situation, last night was a shambles. Massey shouldn’t have raised her flag, but once she did the ref should’ve blown up. Can’t blame the players for yet more inconsistency and indecisiveness from officials
This is exactly the correct way it should have happened. As soon as the flag went up the referee should have blown his whistle, it should be instantaneous! I'm not 100% sure but isn't there a button on the flag that the assistant ref uses to indicate offside to the ref? So unless the ref is 100% convinced that the player was not offside it is the ref who got it wrong. Players have become conditioned to the fact that a raised flag means offside.Considering that all season, the linesmen (or women) have been instructed to leave the flag down until the move has concluded to avoid that exact situation, last night was a shambles. Massey shouldn’t have raised her flag, but once she did the ref should’ve blown up. Can’t blame the players for yet more inconsistency and indecisiveness from officials
No because referees have always been instructed to wait a minute before blowing, and in this case he waited to see what the offence was and/or deciding if any player was interfering with play (as we used to say)Ref doesn’t do anything until ball is in net.....he THEN blows for offside....that is as clear as day Plumbs
He didn’t blow until after ball was in the net. That is a fact. Another fact is that VAR ruins the gameNo because referees have always been instructed to wait a minute before blowing, and in this case he waited to see what the offence was and/or deciding if any player was interfering with play (as we used to say)
VAR clearly overruled the refs offside decision here and caused the furore, when once again the officials gave a decision in good faith as per the laws of the game.
Proper fans who understand the game can grasp this but the Dorito squads with their instant play back facility will never get it,indeed they often blame the family dog on silent but deadlies during the live game. They should bring VAR in for that!
They dont blow until the final phase has been completed*, but if you watch the replay you can see he points for an offside. At that point VAR intervenes via the head set but hey ho.He didn’t blow until after ball was in the net. That is a fact. Another fact is that VAR ruins the game
Point of order ....there is absolutely no part of Old Trafford football ground that is in Salford.They dont blow until the final phase has been completed*, but if you watch the replay you can see he points for an offside. At that point VAR intervenes via the head set but hey ho.
*at Old T when Whiskey Nose was there this involved him being consulted, adding on around 1 min injury time if Manure were winning and around 4 days if they were losing.Roy Keane was allowed to perpetually foul anyone and the goals at the Stretford** End were two feet higher
**another part of Salford.
Not dodgy for me at all. It had to be disallowed. If the ref is gonna blow for a foul against Dier which he well could have done, then blow. But he didn't and that's the key. The ref didn't see it as a clear foul. So he has to allow play to go on . Liverpool score but there is a check for handball by Firmino and whether he was being fouled or not is now irrelevant. He then controls the ball with his arm and deliberate or not it brings the ball under control and they score from it. So it has to be disallowed.Watched Spurs v Liverpool just now and again another dodgy decision.
Liverpool have a goal disallowed for handball but he is clearly being fouled and then he handles it but the handball is punished which is the latter of the incidents.
Also, the pulling and pushing would influence the movement of his arm that leads to him touching it.
So its either a freekick to Liverpool or a goal because advantage would then come into it in my view.
AgreedWhat a lot of confusion and misinformation on here.
Firstly the lineswoman incorrectly flagged too soon ,before the phase of play was completed.
Secondly she flagged for offside when it was just onside.
Thirdly some WBA players paused when they should have played on until the whistle went.A simple principle that everyone who plays football learns from an early age.
The referee AFTER the move was completed and the ball was in the net then blew his whistle correctly disallowed the goal based on the lineswoman`s flag.Then VAR correctly checked and overruled the incorrect offside decision so a legitimate goal that would otherwise have been wrongly disallowed was correctly awarded.
Well done VAR.VAR is certainly sometimes controversial but credit where credit`s due, here unlike the lineswoman they got it dead right and I am all in favour of not disallowing perfectly good goals.If some WBA players chose to stop before the ref blew his whistle they have no-one to blame but themselves and don`t deserve any sympathy.
If of course the ref had incorrectly blown his whistle before the ball entered the net which he didn`t he certainly could not and would not have awarded a goal.
Point of order. A professor of regional boundaries at Layton University has researched this and the original city of Salford included Old T. I think they bung the Council a few bob every now and then to keep it tickety boo.Point of order ....there is absolutely no part of Old Trafford football ground that is in Salford.
....nor in Manchester for that matter.....the clue is in the title
on the subject of VAR ....not a fan but it is here to stay at the so called “elite“ level of football....glad we at Least don’t have it at our games.
It had to be disallowed. It was against Spurs. Admit itNot dodgy for me at all. It had to be disallowed. If the ref is gonna blow for a foul against Dier which he well could have done, then blow. But he didn't and that's the key. The ref didn't see it as a clear foul. So he has to allow play to go on . Liverpool score but there is a check for handball by Firmino and whether he was being fouled or not is now irrelevant. He then controls the ball with his arm and deliberate or not it brings the ball under control and they score from it. So it has to be disallowed.
But he didn't see the handball either so var should have taken the first offence into consideration first.Not dodgy for me at all. It had to be disallowed. If the ref is gonna blow for a foul against Dier which he well could have done, then blow. But he didn't and that's the key. The ref didn't see it as a clear foul. So he has to allow play to go on . Liverpool score but there is a check for handball by Firmino and whether he was being fouled or not is now irrelevant. He then controls the ball with his arm and deliberate or not it brings the ball under control and they score from it. So it has to be disallowed.
but he didn't consider it foul but he did consider it handball. Or alternatively the foul wasn't clear and obvious but the handball was.But he didn't see the handball either so var should have taken the first offence into consideration first.