Why the UK should get vaccine priority

T

Tangojoe

Well-known member
As the European Commission continues to threaten blocking the supply of EU produced vaccines to the UK, it was revealed that the UK had committed £1.67billion on Covid vaccines before it was known whether they would be effective. This equates to £25.00 per person. The EU spent £1.57billion on behalf of its 27 countries, equivalent to £3.51 per person. Brussels also did not reach a deal with Pfizer until clinical trials had been concluded, while Britain had firm orders in place in July 2020. The EU placed its first order in November 2020.

Italian MEP Antonio Rinaldi said "The UK and the US spent seven times more than the EU. This is ridiculous. The EU accounts for 27 countries." He added "Look at the vaccine rollout in Britain... Johnson is miles ahead. In the EU, we will never vaccinate 600,000 people in a day. Because of this complete disaster, the EU will be the last one to leave the state of emergency."

Head of the Commission, Ursula Von der Leyen, was under pressure from member states to resign as she was summoned to explain the bloc's slow vaccination progress in front of a plenary session of the European Parliament.
 
Tangojoe said:
As the European Commission continues to threaten blocking the supply of EU produced vaccines to the UK, it was revealed that the UK had committed £1.67billion on Covid vaccines before it was known whether they would be effective. This equates to £25.00 per person. The EU spent £1.57billion on behalf of its 27 countries, equivalent to £3.51 per person. Brussels also did not reach a deal with Pfizer until clinical trials had been concluded, while Britain had firm orders in place in July 2020. The EU placed its first order in November 2020.

Italian MEP Antonio Rinaldi said "The UK and the US spent seven times more than the EU. This is ridiculous. The EU accounts for 27 countries." He added "Look at the vaccine rollout in Britain... Johnson is miles ahead. In the EU, we will never vaccinate 600,000 people in a day. Because of this complete disaster, the EU will be the last one to leave the state of emergency."

Head of the Commission, Ursula Von der Leyen, was under pressure from member states to resign as she was summoned to explain the bloc's slow vaccination progress in front of a plenary session of the European Parliament.
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Can you provide evidence of these continued threats to block supply?

Source please.
 
Shandypants said:
Where did you cut and paste that from?
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Well seeing as it was a quote from the European Parliament proceedings, I copied it from the European Parliament proceedings.

I was going to post the full quote about the UK only being able to achieve these vaccination figures because it was no longer part if the EU, but knowing what a sensitive soul you are I left that bit out.
 
Tangojoe said:
As the European Commission continues to threaten blocking the supply of EU produced vaccines to the UK, it was revealed that the UK had committed £1.67billion on Covid vaccines before it was known whether they would be effective. This equates to £25.00 per person. The EU spent £1.57billion on behalf of its 27 countries, equivalent to £3.51 per person. Brussels also did not reach a deal with Pfizer until clinical trials had been concluded, while Britain had firm orders in place in July 2020. The EU placed its first order in November 2020.

Italian MEP Antonio Rinaldi said "The UK and the US spent seven times more than the EU. This is ridiculous. The EU accounts for 27 countries." He added "Look at the vaccine rollout in Britain... Johnson is miles ahead. In the EU, we will never vaccinate 600,000 people in a day. Because of this complete disaster, the EU will be the last one to leave the state of emergency."

Head of the Commission, Ursula Von der Leyen, was under pressure from member states to resign as she was summoned to explain the bloc's slow vaccination progress in front of a plenary session of the European Parliament.
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I love the way that people who think the EU is the Great Satan hang on the every word of Italian MEP's they've never heard of when it suits them. 😀
 
i think everyone knows i am very pro-europe and i think that Brexit is quite possibly the most stupid thing that Britain has ever done. However i am not without my critisisms of the the EU, particularly as a political organisation. The COVID crisis point to some serious flaws in the EU political system, in that responsibilty and action against COVID is bouncing between the EU and individual states. im also pretty sure that the EU spend is over and above what individual countries need to spend so the comparison (in spending) isnt a particularly good one.

i do have a feeling though that the COVID crisis, the impending banking crisis, the last banking crisis, the political issues in Hungary and Poland the separation issues in spain. the economic uncertainty in Germany, could be a wider existential crisis for the EU. even as a pro- european im not convinced that the EU is capable of dealing with the problems it has
 
basilrobbie said:
I love the way that people who think the EU is the Great Satan hang on the every word of Italian MEP's they've never heard of when it suits them. 😀
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I only mentioned the Italian's comments because his statistics were interesting, but since he didn't persuade you here are some more quotes from the EU Parliament

The Irish MEP slammed the EC for ignoring the Irish government when deciding its border rules. He said they were “so obsessed with punishing the UK that we were we not consulted.”

The Danish MEP called the EC’s vaccination strategy “absolutely pathetic”. He said “Ursula VDL and the Commission look like the Iraqi government ahead of its collapse” He complained that “People are getting vaccinated in the UK, the US and Israel, we are just threading water”.

The Polish MEP blasted the Commission President over her "empty promises" on the procurement of vaccines for the bloc.

The Estonian MEP complained that member states were told that countries were unable to deal with the pandemic crisis on their own and had to rely on the EU. The European Commission has been given a mandate to pursue vaccines and their failure will cause even greater economic damage to member states.
 
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It mostly stems from the decision taken in the UK to indemnify the pharmaceutical firms against risk. The UK Vaccination Taskforce rightly pushed for that to happen so we could press ahead with supplies. The EU couldn’t decide. Of course , the Taskforce weren’t Whitehall insiders which helped.
 
20togo said:
I love the way that people who think the UK is the Great Satan hang on the every word of the EU people they'd never heard of 12 months ago because it suits them to do so.
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Who thinks the UK is the Great Satan? Every remainer I see wants the very best for this country but sees leaving as the antithesis of that, with a massive own goal in terms of trade, international standing and an increased likelihood of a complete break up of the UK.

All those issues lie at the door of the Brexit decision, yet those who are all for it refuse to accept any responsibility for anything at all, blaming all and sundry for everything.

When we can't sell seafood, how is it the EU's fault? They havent changed the rules.

When our retailers can no longer sell abroad because of increases in costs due to the loss of frictionless borders, how is it the EU's fault? We voted for it.

When Scotland or Northern Ireland holds a referendum and leaves the UK, how is it the EU's fault? The fault will lie in the decimation of EU markets with no thought of what the alternative would be.
 
Tangojoe said:
I only mentioned the Italian's comments because his statistics were interesting, but since he didn't persuade you here are some more quotes from the EU Parliament

The Irish MEP slammed the EC for ignoring the Irish government when deciding its border rules. He said they were “so obsessed with punishing the UK that we were we not consulted.”

The Danish MEP called the EC’s vaccination strategy “absolutely pathetic”. He said “Ursula VDL and the Commission look like the Iraqi government ahead of its collapse” He complained that “People are getting vaccinated in the UK, the US and Israel, we are just threading water”.

The Polish MEP blasted the Commission President over her "empty promises" on the procurement of vaccines for the bloc.

The Estonian MEP complained that member states were told that countries were unable to deal with the pandemic crisis on their own and had to rely on the EU. The European Commission has been given a mandate to pursue vaccines and their failure will cause even greater economic damage to member states.
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At what point has anyone not said that the vaccination programme was the only thing we have got right?

This is pointless. We're not in the EU.

Can you come back on the multitude of disasters on the handling of the pandemic by our own government? And because the Irish MEP slams the EU for invoking Article 16 that's ok, but not a peep when Boris threatened exactly the same.
 
Wizaard said:
Who thinks the UK is the Great Satan? Every remainer I see wants the very best for this country but sees leaving as the antithesis of that, with a massive own goal in terms of trade, international standing and an increased likelihood of a complete break up of the UK.

All those issues lie at the door of the Brexit decision, yet those who are all for it refuse to accept any responsibility for anything at all, blaming all and sundry for everything.

When we can't sell seafood, how is it the EU's fault? They havent changed the rules.

When our retailers can no longer sell abroad because of increases in costs due to the loss of frictionless borders, how is it the EU's fault? We voted for it.

When Scotland or Northern Ireland holds a referendum and leaves the UK, how is it the EU's fault? The fault will lie in the decimation of EU markets with no thought of what the alternative would be.
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You do Wiz. You and others with your relentless negativity.
It's easy to type that every brexiter wants the very best for this country and saw remaining as the antithesis of that. They are just words and opinions Wiz, nothing more than that. And it's dragging you down.

We are out of the EU. All you remainers lost and can now do nothing about it apart from whinge and moan about it on an obscure football message board. You've got the rest of your lives to live. So quit being miserable and just get on with it. You always have a positive outlook on BFC, it's time to do the same with the rest.

Accept the decision and move on. You'll feel much better for it when you do.
 
Dark_Side_of_the_Lune said:
It mostly stems from the decision taken in the UK to indemnify the pharmaceutical firms against risk. The UK Vaccination Taskforce rightly pushed for that to happen so we could press ahead with supplies. The EU couldn’t decide. Of course , the Taskforce weren’t Whitehall insiders which helped.
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And of course in the end, after wasting 3 months, the EU caved in and gave the firms the indemnities they required.

Fundamentally the EU doesn't appear to have understood what is involved in manufacturing and supplying a vaccine, they appear to have thought that is was akin to buying stationery with an unlimited global supply and production that can be ramped up or down at will.

To their credit Boris & Co. understood the issues and complexity very quickly and took appropriate steps to ensure production was ramped up as fast as possible.
 
Wizaard said:
At what point has anyone not said that the vaccination programme was the only thing we have got right?

This is pointless. We're not in the EU. Can you come back on the multitude of disasters on the handling of the pandemic by our own government? And because the Irish MEP slams the EU for invoking Article 16 that's ok, but not a peep when Boris threatened exactly the same.
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The thread is about why the UK should get vaccine priority. You diverted it.

You also asked for evidence of the EC's continued threats to block supplies to the UK, even after Stella Kyriakides, EU health commissioner, warned that the EC will introduce tight controls on the export of jabs to other countries and that she "will take any action required" to secure vaccines for the bloc, and said she would "introduce export controls" in response to supply issues with the UK-based AstraZeneca.

And, German MEP Manfred Weber threatened the UK with another export ban on vaccine doses from the EU, moments after Ursula von der Leyen renewed her apology for triggering Article 16 of the Brexit protocol.
 
Tangojoe said:
The thread is about why the UK should get vaccine priority. You diverted it.

You also asked for evidence of the EC's continued threats to block supplies to the UK, even after Stella Kyriakides, EU health commissioner, warned that the EC will introduce tight controls on the export of jabs to other countries and that she "will take any action required" to secure vaccines for the bloc, and said she would "introduce export controls" in response to supply issues with the UK-based AstraZeneca.
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And her bosses have made it clear that wont happen.

Scaremongering. Project Fear.
 
20togo said:
You do Wiz. You and others with your relentless negativity.
It's easy to type that every brexiter wants the very best for this country and saw remaining as the antithesis of that. They are just words and opinions Wiz, nothing more than that. And it's dragging you down.

We are out of the EU. All you remainers lost and can now do nothing about it apart from whinge and moan about it on an obscure football message board. You've got the rest of your lives to live. So quit being miserable and just get on with it. You always have a positive outlook on BFC, it's time to do the same with the rest.

Accept the decision and move on. You'll feel much better for it when you do.
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Relentless negativity. Utter bollox.

People are dying in their thousands every day but I should put on a happy face and praise the government for their efforts.

It's a disaster. Literally.

And with regard to Brexit, it's not opinions, it's what's happening.
 
Wizaard said:
And her bosses have made it clear that wont happen.

Scaremongering. Project Fear.
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Firstly, she is the boss of the Commission. Secondly, her u-turn was about the Irish border, The blocking of exports to the UK is still on the table.


Why don't you post a thread on this instead of dodging the subject in the OP?
 
Tangojoe said:
Firstly, she is the boss of the Commission. Secondly, her u-turn was about the Irish border, The blocking of exports to the UK is still on the table.
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And the Commission works for the leaders of the countries, and they've made it clear that exports of vaccines won't be impacted.

Nonsense. Project Fear. Scaremongering.

The OP was based on a false premise. I've avoided nothing.
 
Tangojoe said:
Firstly, she is the boss of the Commission. Secondly, her u-turn was about the Irish border, The blocking of exports to the UK is still on the table.
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The would of course be a truely idiotic move, firstly because we're likely to become a net exporter of vaccines in Q3 and will need to decide if we want them to go to our friends in Canada/Aus/NZ or our neighbours in the EU, and secondly because the message it sends out to the global pharmaceutical industry is that the EU is not a reliable jurisdiction for manufacturing.

So a racing certainty then, my guess would be shortly after we pass the 15m mark (AKA Saturday), still, on the upside, when the entire global pharmaceutical industry decides to close down its European operations as a result of the move at least they'll know there's one country in Europe they can rely upon.
 
Wizaard said:
Relentless negativity. Utter bollox.

People are dying in their thousands every day but I should put on a happy face and praise the government for their efforts.

It's a disaster. Literally.

And with regard to Brexit, it's not opinions, it's what's happening.
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If it's not relentless negativity then what is it? You post your criticisms on a daily basis. Of course it's relentless negativity.
And as you now make perfectly clear, you're no different to the very worst of posters on here. Politics comes first for you.
 
As is typical this turns into Leave/Remain argument, but in reality it's a legal argument.

The EU feel their pre-buy agreement contractually guarantees them supplies of the AZ vaccine from any production site - UK or EU-based.
AZ has production issues at the EU-based production sites and (presumably with the full support of the UK govt.) feel the pre-buy agreement means they can commit UK-produced vaccines to UK sales first and non-UK sales on a secondary basis, once the UK commitments are covered.
It's a question of who is legally right regarding the contract wording. Clearly that won't be solved any time soon, so both parties then resort to political tit-for-tat; If you won't meet your commitments, we won't meet ours etc...
How much each party committed to various vaccine research doesn't really come into it. If i commit 100% of the money required to buy a house and there's a signed contract stating that my brother owns half of it once full payment has been made, there's no moral argument. Just a legal one.

As an aside, I'd note that the Italian MEP is a known Eurosceptic. An Italian Farage if you like. So I'm not entirely sure he's the most impartial commentator in all this. He's also a former banker/financier etc...Amazing how many of them don't like the rules and regs of the EU...

Last point, our vaccine strategy and rollout, whether by luck or judgement, has been hugely positive and the numbers speak for themselves.
 
straightatthewall said:
As is typical this turns into Leave/Remain argument, but in reality it's a legal argument.

The EU feel their pre-buy agreement contractually guarantees them supplies of the AZ vaccine from any production site - UK or EU-based.
AZ has production issues at the EU-based production sites and (presumably with the full support of the UK govt.) feel the pre-buy agreement means they can commit UK-produced vaccines to UK sales first and non-UK sales on a secondary basis, once the UK commitments are covered.
It's a question of who is legally right regarding the contract wording. Clearly that won't be solved any time soon, so both parties then resort to political tit-for-tat; If you won't meet your commitments, we won't meet ours etc...
How much each party committed to various vaccine research doesn't really come into it. If i commit 100% of the money required to buy a house and there's a signed contract stating that my brother owns half of it once full payment has been made, there's no moral argument. Just a legal one.

As an aside, I'd note that the Italian MEP is a known Eurosceptic. An Italian Farage if you like. So I'm not entirely sure he's the most impartial commentator in all this. He's also a former banker/financier etc...Amazing how many of them don't like the rules and regs of the EU...

Last point, our vaccine strategy and rollout, whether by luck or judgement, has been hugely positive and the numbers speak for themselves.
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A sensible post, but don't jump onto the Cat/Wizaard bandwagon of "he's a known Eurosceptic so he can't have a valid point of view" or "that's in the Daily Mail so it doesn't count". I've quoted Irish, Danish, Polish, Estonian MEPs @ #11 above. There are Finnish, German and Hungarian MEPs taking the same line. They can't all be dismissed as right wing nut jobs.
 
straightatthewall said:
As is typical this turns into Leave/Remain argument, but in reality it's a legal argument.

The EU feel their pre-buy agreement contractually guarantees them supplies of the AZ vaccine from any production site - UK or EU-based.
AZ has production issues at the EU-based production sites and (presumably with the full support of the UK govt.) feel the pre-buy agreement means they can commit UK-produced vaccines to UK sales first and non-UK sales on a secondary basis, once the UK commitments are covered.
It's a question of who is legally right regarding the contract wording. Clearly that won't be solved any time soon, so both parties then resort to political tit-for-tat; If you won't meet your commitments, we won't meet ours etc...
How much each party committed to various vaccine research doesn't really come into it. If i commit 100% of the money required to buy a house and there's a signed contract stating that my brother owns half of it once full payment has been made, there's no moral argument. Just a legal one.

As an aside, I'd note that the Italian MEP is a known Eurosceptic. An Italian Farage if you like. So I'm not entirely sure he's the most impartial commentator in all this. He's also a former banker/financier etc...Amazing how many of them don't like the rules and regs of the EU...

Last point, our vaccine strategy and rollout, whether by luck or judgement, has been hugely positive and the numbers speak for themselves.
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And if you paid money for something which was out of stock three months before some-one else ordered it. I reckon you'd be pretty pissed off if they got delivery of it before you.
 
Tangojoe said:
A sensible post, but don't jump onto the Cat/Wizaard bandwagon of "he's a known Eurosceptic so he can't have a valid point of view" or "that's in the Daily Mail so it doesn't count". I've quoted Irish, Danish, Polish, Estonian MEPs @ #11 above. There are Finnish, German and Hungarian MEPs taking the same line. They can't all be dismissed as right wing nut jobs.
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There's plenty of Eurosceptics in the European Parliament. We aren't the only country that use(d) it as a vehicle for protest votes you know.
Main point is that our vaccine approach has worked well. There's looks flawed, possibly because of the pre-existing problems that always existed around too much red tape and regulations. They're being rightfully criticized for it, but let's not pretend that some of the more vocal critics don't have another agenda too.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
i think everyone knows i am very pro-europe and i think that Brexit is quite possibly the most stupid thing that Britain has ever done. However i am not without my critisisms of the the EU, particularly as a political organisation. The COVID crisis point to some serious flaws in the EU political system, in that responsibilty and action against COVID is bouncing between the EU and individual states. im also pretty sure that the EU spend is over and above what individual countries need to spend so the comparison (in spending) isnt a particularly good one.

i do have a feeling though that the COVID crisis, the impending banking crisis, the last banking crisis, the political issues in Hungary and Poland the separation issues in spain. the economic uncertainty in Germany, could be a wider existential crisis for the EU. even as a pro- european im not convinced that the EU is capable of dealing with the problems it has
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I agree. There is certainly a need for reform. I can't say I've ever been fully behind the Euro for one thing - it hampers the weaker, Meditteranean economies from trading at a value more suitable to their conditions. Also, the European Parliament needs to be more powerful in holding the Commission to account and for directing its work. I don't have the answers and I do believe in some European political integration - certainly as regards foreign policy, defence and human rights. Perhaps in terms of economic and trading bureaucrasy it needs to be less controlling.
 
20togo said:
And if you paid money for something which was out of stock three months before some-one else ordered it. I reckon you'd be pretty pissed off if they got delivery of it before you.
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Of course you would. But being pissed off and being legally in the right or wrong (which is how this will play out) are 2 different things. Unless you're making some other point that I'm missing?
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I agree. There is certainly a need for reform. I can't say I've ever been fully behind the Euro for one thing - it hampers the weaker, Meditteranean economies from trading at a value more suitable to their conditions. Also, the European Parliament needs to be more powerful in holding the Commission to account and for directing its work. I don't have the answers and I do believe in some European political integration - certainly as regards foreign policy, defence and human rights. Perhaps in terms of economic and trading bureaucrasy it needs to be less controlling.
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If the EU had agreed to just a few of those things when David Cameron respectfully asked for it we would still be in the EU.
 
straightatthewall said:
Of course you would. But being pissed off and being legally in the right or wrong (which is how this will play out) are 2 different things. Unless you're making some other point that I'm missing?
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No, just simply adding to your post. I know you rightly talk about the legalities of it but I'd hazard a reasonable guess that when the EU signed their agreements with the vaccine manufacturers that those agreements made no reference to the UK. After all it was an agreement between them and nothing to do with us. Yet it seems they now want to 'involve ' the UK by being bully boys and stopping deliveries to us in order to get vaccines delivered to them. Like I said, we signed the deals 3 months before them.
 
straightatthewall said:
It's a question of who is legally right regarding the contract wording. Clearly that won't be solved any time soon,
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There's a full copy of the contract here, the short version is that the EC's claims are wrong and pretty much unarguably so, or perhaps to put it another way, the pharmaceutical companies undoubtedly have better lawyers than the EC.

The key clause is 5.1, which commits AZ to best reasonable efforts to supply vaccine manufactured within the EU.

The contentious clause is 5.4 which says that for the purpose of section 5.4 only the UK is included within the EU; the EC is trying to argue that this somehow brings the UK into the EU for the purpose of 5.1 as well, when very clearly it does not.

It's important to read clause 5.4 as a whole to understand what its purpose is and thus what its effect on the rest of the contract is. 5.4 permits AZ, at its discretion, to supply vaccine manufactured outside the EU provided prior notice and an explanation is given, the reference to the UK being in the EU is simply a waiver of the requirements of that clause and has no other effect on the contract.


Quite simply UVDL & Co. have royally screwed up the EU's vaccination acquisition programme and are lashing out wildly and trying to find scapegoats to save their own worthless skins, it is disgusting behaviour particularly when the company involved is selling a product, that is literally worth more than gold, at cost in the interests of humanity.
 
20togo said:
No, just simply adding to your post. I know you rightly talk about the legalities of it but I'd hazard a reasonable guess that when the EU signed their agreements with the vaccine manufacturers that those agreements made no reference to the UK. After all it was an agreement between them and nothing to do with us. Yet it seems they now want to 'involve ' the UK by being bully boys and stopping deliveries to us in order to get vaccines delivered to them. Like I said, we signed the deals 3 months before them.
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This is old news from two weeks ago and has blown over. This isn't going to happen and squabbling over who signed what and when is needless. It is clear that the EU has made a big mess with regard to its vaccination strategy and would have liked to blame something or somebody else. The UK government and EU have since had talks and agreed to reset the relationship and to try to cooperate where possible, this is the most sensible way forward and is mutually beneficial for all.
In order for the vaccination strategy to work effectively we need the whole world to participate in it in a meaningful way. We shouldn't really consider this phase to be a race to see which country can vaccinate its population first because if other countries (particularly European) are not vaccinated we have no chance of getting back to 'normal' or anything like anytime soon.
The UK does come out of this crisis with some credit.
We funded the development of the OU vaccine and made AZ sell it at cost price to developing world - this will be a major contribution to fighting Covid on a worldwide basis. Our science is playing a leading role, our sequencing capability is amongst the best in the world and helps to identify new strains and spread of different strains. Hopefully we can continue to play a leading role, our life sciences are strong and we may come out of this crisis with our reputation enhanced.
 
Nice to know you've resolved the legal wrangling between both sides. Surprised you haven't made the news with this. Unless of course this is all your opinion and not actually as categorically true as you've just made it sound...
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
This is old news from two weeks ago and has blown over. This isn't going to happen and squabbling over who signed what and when is needless. It is clear that the EU has made a big mess with regard to its vaccination strategy and would have liked to blame something or somebody else. The UK government and EU have since had talks and agreed to reset the relationship and to try to cooperate where possible, this is the most sensible way forward and is mutually beneficial for all.
In order for the vaccination strategy to work effectively we need the whole world to participate in it in a meaningful way. We shouldn't really consider this phase to be a race to see which country can vaccinate its population first because if other countries (particularly European) are not vaccinated we have no chance of getting back to 'normal' or anything like anytime soon.
The UK does come out of this crisis with some credit.
We funded the development of the OU vaccine and made AZ sell it at cost price to developing world - this will be a major contribution to fighting Covid on a worldwide basis. Our science is playing a leading role, our sequencing capability is amongst the best in the world and helps to identify new strains and spread of different strains. Hopefully we can continue to play a leading role, our life sciences are strong and we may come out of this crisis with our reputation enhanced.
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Whereas I get your point about the whole world needing to be vaccinated we still need to continue to vaccinate at the same rate we are doing all the UK residents. And that should be the UK's priority. I haven't suggested it's a race against anyone else, it's simply a case of getting on with it as quickly as possible.

It's funny you mention the word "race" as that accusation has been levelled at me before with regards to this matter. I simply replied that some people seem to politically revel in the fact that we had more deaths than other European countries. Was that a race for them?
 
straightatthewall said:
Nice to know you've resolved the legal wrangling between both sides. Surprised you haven't made the news with this. Unless of course this is all your opinion and not actually as categorically true as you've just made it sound...
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Point to the bit in the contract that supports the EU position please.
 
Wizaard said:
Relentless negativity. Utter bollox.

People are dying in their thousands every day but I should put on a happy face and praise the government for their efforts.

It's a disaster. Literally.

And with regard to Brexit, it's not opinions, it's what's happening.
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It's a disaster in your opinion. But your opinion is based on a politically motivated, hate filled agenda. And opinions based on that are rarely, if ever balanced. And let's face it you know sweet fcuk about what is going to happen in the future concerning Brexit.
The UK could well prosper or it could be the exact opposite
But you don't know as the ramifications of Brexit won't be known for a good while yet. And you don't know what the outcome will be and neither does anyone else on here.
You sit there tapping away furiously on your keypad, coming over as an expert in all things Brexit.
And your relentless negativity isn't utter bollox. It's plain for everyone to see.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
It's a disaster in your opinion. But your opinion is based on a politically motivated, hate filled agenda. And opinions based on that are rarely, if ever balanced. And let's face it you know sweet fcuk about what is going to happen in the future concerning Brexit.
The UK could well prosper or it could be the exact opposite
But you don't know as the ramifications of Brexit won't be known for a good while yet. And you don't know what the outcome will be and neither does anyone else on here.
You sit there tapping away furiously on your keypad, coming over as an expert in all things Brexit.
And your relentless negativity isn't utter bollox. It's plain for everyone to see.
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Deluded
 
Wizaard said:
Yet if I dont agree with you I'm relentlessly negative and filled with hatred? Ok
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Well your OPINION is that we are deluded simply because we don't agree with you regarding Brexit. It's your OPINION as opposed to those on the other side of the debate who have their OPINION.
However, I dare say that a simple look at the content of your posts will find that on a daily basis you have been relentlessly negative with your criticism. You see that's a fact and there is a big difference between fact and opinion. Ok?
 
20togo said:
Well your OPINION is that we are deluded simply because we don't agree with you regarding Brexit. It's your OPINION as opposed to those on the other side of the debate who have their OPINION.
However, I dare say that a simple look at the content of your posts will find that on a daily basis you have been relentlessly negative with your criticism. You see that's a fact and there is a big difference between fact and opinion. Ok?
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Jeez, are you an adult?

You don't know the difference between a fact and a opinion, that's for sure.
 
20togo said:
Well your OPINION is that we are deluded simply because we don't agree with you regarding Brexit. It's your OPINION as opposed to those on the other side of the debate who have their OPINION.
However, I dare say that a simple look at the content of your posts will find that on a daily basis you have been relentlessly negative with your criticism. You see that's a fact and there is a big difference between fact and opinion. Ok?
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Relentless implies there is nothing but negativity.

I've been consistent in saying how well the vaccine has gone. So you're wrong. That's not an OPINION it's a FACT.

You've let your hate filled agenda blind you to that.
 
20togo said:
Pot and kettle again. That's all you've been doing with regards to Brexit. Yet here you are accusing others. Like I said, relentless negativity.
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Relentless negativity.....why do we bother with opposition political parties. All they ever do is ask pertinent questions. I see the right have adopted this form of bizarre argument. Dissent will not be tolerated eh?
 
Shandypants said:
Relentless negativity.....why do we bother with opposition political parties. All they ever do is ask pertinent questions. I see the right have adopted this form of bizarre argument. Dissent will not be tolerated eh?
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Yep, relentless negativity. Remember you're the poster who openly stated you couldn't bring yourself to congratulate the govt on how the vaccine rollout is going. You're a prime example who is all over every bad news thread either on Brexit or Covid yet conveniently go missing whenever there's any good news or some positivity.
Jeez, I'm sure the leader of the opposition has offered more positivity than you have.
Relentless negativity sums you up perfectly. Snipe, snipe, snipe.
 
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