Woman’s sport - I will get slated here!

Yes, when womens sport generates more than the men, I think they should be paid more.

In MOST cases - I know it's not all - womens sport is subsidised by the male version.

In these cases, the women still complain that they are not earning the same as their male equivalents even though their earnings are being subsidised by those males.

I am struggling to think of that many male sports who receive subsidies from their female equivalents ?
I agree with this, they should only get paid the same as the men when they start bringing in as much revenue as the men.
The USA women’s team trying to take their governing body to court over it was just embarrassing for them.
That getting thrown out of court was exactly what was deserved.
All I'm saying is that I have no problem with womens sport being on Sky and BT because I know that my nieces an their friends watch them.
It doesn't affect my life them being on Sky, I pay for mens football, boxing, cricket, rugby, F1 and the NFL. My subscription hasn't gone up because they now have netball or womens Football on, so I'm not fussed.
 
Do you think a person should be placed in a job purely based on their gender, colour, religion or sexuality?
No.

Which is probably why the pool of “suitable candidates” shouldn’t be limited to middle aged white males.

The net should be cast wider so we can really choose the best person for the job.
 
Wonder whether they will go down the disabled route as well,been tried with general news and weather forecast and most have frizzled out. I usually switch over or off at most women pundits/presenters and quite a few men on sky. Be better with robots.
 
Women’s football deserves respect but...
It really isn’t an elite sport or spectacle.
It’s of a standard which shouldn’t be compared to men’s football but it frequently is. I only have limited time to spare for sport and therefore concentrate on the game I identify with and that isn’t women’s football.
I can see how high the standards are in women’s golf and tennis, but not football.
 
td53

Absolutely.

You have made good fair points on all your posts and I'm not trying to say you are wrong and I am right.

I just think the coverage of womens sport/inclusion of female punters is more to do with being seen to do things right.

Your latest point here is certainly a good one and Sky certainly look to make changes and continually review things.

There are benefits of increased coverage of womens sport, I just don't like the way they are being forced on us.
Seen to do right by whom?
 
Women’s football deserves respect but...
It really isn’t an elite sport or spectacle.
It’s of a standard which shouldn’t be compared to men’s football but it frequently is. I only have limited time to spare for sport and therefore concentrate on the game I identify with and that isn’t women’s football.
I can see how high the standards are in women’s golf and tennis, but not football.

Puma

As well as respecting womens football, that's a very respectful post.
 
Seen to do right by whom?

td53

Not specifically womens football/sport but I'm just suggesting that the company is clearly keen on complying to the modern day politically correct nonsense.

They are a successful organisation and may benefit overall from this compliance but I'd imagine people will come to their senses eventually and they won't have to bother.
 
td53

Not specifically womens football/sport but I'm just suggesting that the company is clearly keen on complying to the modern day politically correct nonsense.

They are a successful organisation and may benefit overall from this compliance but I'd imagine people will come to their senses eventually and they won't have to bother.
So, essentially you are saying it's market forces?
 
td53

Absolutely.

You have made good fair points on all your posts and I'm not trying to say you are wrong and I am right.

I just think the coverage of womens sport/inclusion of female punters is more to do with being seen to do things right.

Your latest point here is certainly a good one and Sky certainly look to make changes and continually review things.

There are benefits of increased coverage of womens sport, I just don't like the way they are being forced on us.
They aren’t being forced on anyone, you don’t have to watch it if you don’t want. Women who dislike sports have had to put up with it on mainstream tv for years but there’s non of this commotion and no one burnt their tv license in disgust.
 
Okey doke folks, I've lost 2 hours of my life and will never get it back.

We seem to have the same or very similar threads every few months or so and we all put our views across.

I am genuinely interested in what posters actually think about womens sport from an entertainment point of view and what people views are on this - taking all the politics such as subsidies/presenters and pundits.

I am bailing from this thread now or when I've addressed the current questions I've got but do any of us actually watch any female sports either on telly or live (pre Covid) ?

What female sports do you really enjoy ?

Which would you just never watch ?
 
I've just found out that Netball has been on Sky sports since 2006, so people are literally getting annoyed over women's sports being on Sky because they've only just noticed them when in reality they been there for years. 🤦‍♀️
 
They aren’t being forced on anyone, you don’t have to watch it if you don’t want. Women who dislike sports have had to put up with it on mainstream tv for years but there’s non of this commotion and no one burnt their tv license in disgust.

LALA

I am not going to get into a big ding dong with you and neither of us have to burn our television licenses.

On the subject of the BBC, they have dropped male sports which attract bigger viewing figures than womens football while increasing coverage of womens football.

I wouldn't know the male/female split of the viewing figures and I'm not sure how relevant your comment regarding women having to put up with sports on mainstream is ?

The mainstream sports that were covered on mainstream tv for years attracted substantial total viewing figures without the need to analyse the sex of the viewers.

Womens football does not attract substantial total viewing figures without the need to analyse the sex of the viewers - at a period of time when other more popular sports are being or have already been axed.

Please don't get me wrong, I think there are benefits that can be obtained as a result of the over exposure of womens football/sport and I have already mentioned the obvious benefits from the increased participation of young girls in sport.

I've said far too much LALA, I hope you are all good and my advice would be to ignore my drivel.
 
LALA

I am not going to get into a big ding dong with you and neither of us have to burn our television licenses.

On the subject of the BBC, they have dropped male sports which attract bigger viewing figures than womens football while increasing coverage of womens football.

I wouldn't know the male/female split of the viewing figures and I'm not sure how relevant your comment regarding women having to put up with sports on mainstream is ?

The mainstream sports that were covered on mainstream tv for years attracted substantial total viewing figures without the need to analyse the sex of the viewers.

Womens football does not attract substantial total viewing figures without the need to analyse the sex of the viewers - at a period of time when other more popular sports are being or have already been axed.

Please don't get me wrong, I think there are benefits that can be obtained as a result of the over exposure of womens football/sport and I have already mentioned the obvious benefits from the increased participation of young girls in sport.

I've said far too much LALA, I hope you are all good and my advice would be to ignore my drivel.
They haven't 'dropped' male sport. They've been priced out the market by commercial providers such as sky largely. Once football rights were no longer a two way bidding war, the BBC was screwed.
 
LALA

I am not going to get into a big ding dong with you and neither of us have to burn our television licenses.

On the subject of the BBC, they have dropped male sports which attract bigger viewing figures than womens football while increasing coverage of womens football.

I wouldn't know the male/female split of the viewing figures and I'm not sure how relevant your comment regarding women having to put up with sports on mainstream is ?

The mainstream sports that were covered on mainstream tv for years attracted substantial total viewing figures without the need to analyse the sex of the viewers.

Womens football does not attract substantial total viewing figures without the need to analyse the sex of the viewers - at a period of time when other more popular sports are being or have already been axed.

Please don't get me wrong, I think there are benefits that can be obtained as a result of the over exposure of womens football/sport and I have already mentioned the obvious benefits from the increased participation of young girls in sport.

I've said far too much LALA, I hope you are all good and my advice would be to ignore my drivel.
I’m good thanks. My response was to the idea that you’re having women’s sports forced on you .
How is it being ‘forced on you ?’
It isn’t, so just don’t watch it. Simples.

If I don’t like something I tend not to do it, or in this instance not to watch it. I don’t say it’s being forced on me , because it isn’t.
 
The latter point is irrelevant though. My question was why are sky changing the way they present.

td53

Do you mean the way they present as in the inclusion of more female presenters or the way that they give so much exposure to groups like BLM ?

I'm going now but I certainly don't want to ignore you or dismiss anything you have said but I also don't want to make irrelevant points and would need to know what you meant.
 
How seriously would you take men's football if it effectively hadn't existed for 50 years.

Imagine.

1921-1971

No Matthews or Morty. No 1966, No Alan Ball. No Jimmy Armfield. No Pele. No Best, Law, Charlton. No Munich, no triumphant win for the Busby Babes in 68. No Jock Stein and the Lisbon Lions. No Dixie Dean rattling 60 goals in 1928, no school of science at Goodison, no Don Revie at Leeds, No Billy Wright and Wolves. No clown prince of football at Sunderland, No Tom Finney running through the water leaving spray in his wake. No Hungary beating England in 53, no massive groaning terraces after the war, filled with record crowds. No Ray Charlnley or Ray Pointer.

All of that is long before I was born and all of that is part of why football is what it is. It's a game built on history and tradition. It's passed through generations. My dad supported Blackpool, he took me, I took my son. I can quote the above off the top of my head, even though I was born in 79. When I was a kid, there was no women's football to speak of. Thus as an adult, I have no interest. That's why it's on now. It's not for you, it's an attempt to build a new market for football, that will pay off in 20 years time.

That's the FAs job. That's business. Identify an untapped market and exploit it.

You can't simply wave away the fact the women's game was cut off at the knees at the point it was becoming popular.

Why was it cut off at the knees? Cos the chairmen of clubs were expressing unrest at the fact women's games were attracting *bigger crowds* than men's games and this they banned it from being played at any FA affiliated stadium.

Comparing the two games is almost literally like comparing two runners, when runner a) gets level, runner b) kneecaps them then runs round the track for 20 laps whilst runner a) lies prone.

Then ask why runner a doesn't 'take it seriously' or why people don't support runner a)

There's nowt 'woke' in the above. It just is what it is.

Now, to the case of 'woke' sky. Sky is Murdoch company that is woke to one thing and one thing only - cash.

What it is doing is trying to address it's aging and falling subscriber base. Bemoaning the pundits changing is like bemoaning pop music changing. The tastes of the next generation (at least in the perception of sky) are different. They don't want a load of aging white men saying "back in the 80s, it was a man's game" any more than they want Jefferson Airplane on radio 1. Sky and indeed the FA itself are very aware that football supporters are aging, the average age of spectators is way higher than once it was and they're desperately trying to rebrand the game as something younger, more in tune with a broader audience because the more people who watch, the more money they make.

It's notable that there aren't many, (if any) less er... classically aesthetically pleasing female pundits. This isn't a woke revolution. It's just Sky etc trying to reach more people to future proof their investment.

What the fuck does Murdoch give a shit about 'wokedom' for? He's got literally no moral values at all. He'll do what he perceives makes money.

Me. I don't really care. Pundits are shit anyway mostly and I don't have sky. I'd happily have stopped the clock and Peter Jones on the radio and Barry Davies on the telly and kept it there forever cos that's what I liked. But time waits for no man (or woman, or gender neutral individual who prefers not to identify as human lol)
There was no women's football because it was literally banned. Before the 20s it was very successful and got large gates with local side from Blackpool East, Dick Kerrs regularly getting 15000 gates.
 
I’m good thanks. My response was to the idea that you’re having women’s sports forced on you .
How is it being ‘forced on you ?’
It isn’t, so just don’t watch it. Simples.

If I don’t like something I tend not to do it, or in this instance not to watch it. I don’t say it’s being forced on me , because it isn’t.

That;s good and fair do's LALA.

It is not being forced on anybody as in nobody is going to be punished for failing to tune in to womens football/sport but more resources - in the case of the BBC, that's license fees - are being committed to a less popular sport, other more popular sports are being dropped.

Should license fees be used to subsidise womens sport ?
 
LALA

I am not going to get into a big ding dong with you and neither of us have to burn our television licenses.

On the subject of the BBC, they have dropped male sports which attract bigger viewing figures than womens football while increasing coverage of womens football.

I wouldn't know the male/female split of the viewing figures and I'm not sure how relevant your comment regarding women having to put up with sports on mainstream is ?

The mainstream sports that were covered on mainstream tv for years attracted substantial total viewing figures without the need to analyse the sex of the viewers.

Womens football does not attract substantial total viewing figures without the need to analyse the sex of the viewers - at a period of time when other more popular sports are being or have already been axed.

Please don't get me wrong, I think there are benefits that can be obtained as a result of the over exposure of womens football/sport and I have already mentioned the obvious benefits from the increased participation of young girls in sport.

I've said far too much LALA, I hope you are all good and my advice would be to ignore my drivel.
The BBC have dropped live mens sport because they can't afford it. Nothing more, nothing less. Subscription TV means they can only get the sports no one else wants to cover. That's why we get a fortnight of Wimbledon and snooker and BDO darts, not PDC.

Nothing to do with favouring women over men, all to do with finances. With times being tight due to the pandemic, maybe Sky are trying to put more women's football on because it's cheap broadcasting
 
td53

Do you mean the way they present as in the inclusion of more female presenters or the way that they give so much exposure to groups like BLM ?

I'm going now but I certainly don't want to ignore you or dismiss anything you have said but I also don't want to make irrelevant points and would need to know what you meant.
Anything. I don't have sky, I don't watch it aside from the odd time at someone's house or the pub, I never have had it. I just mean I find it very odd that anything they do would be motivated by some sort of selfless inherent 'wokeness' as opposed to their marketing strategy and focus group information.

Same as I said above. I don't find radio 1 especially palatable now, but I'm 41, not 14 now. Radio one isn't alienating me, it's just seeking a new audience.
 
There was no women's football because it was literally banned. Before the 20s it was very successful and got large gates with local side from Blackpool East, Dick Kerrs regularly getting 15000 gates.
It's almost as if I wrote a very lengthy post about that🤪 They got 53,000 once I believe. I think at Goodison, but I could be wrong about that.
 
That;s good and fair do's LALA.

It is not being forced on anybody as in nobody is going to be punished for failing to tune in to womens football/sport but more resources - in the case of the BBC, that's license fees - are being committed to a less popular sport, other more popular sports are being dropped.

Should license fees be used to subsidise womens sport ?
Why not? Should license fees be used to subsidise the inflated wages of premier league players? Cos they are. Players earn far more than is justified by what gate revenue is and the BBC money is a (small) part of that. Therefore, their wages are subsidised' by the licence payer.

Subsidise is an over simplification. The BBC pay a paltry sum. Probably (I could look this up but I'm 99% sure I'm right) a lot, lot less than they pay for Prem highlights.

They get a product.

Should license fees be used to subsidise songs of praise or cooking shows? Literally, what's the difference? You pay a fee, you get a product.

TV coverage (pre sky) basically made snooker as a serious professional game. Darts too (I think)

Why is women's football different to the above?
 
Anything. I don't have sky, I don't watch it aside from the odd time at someone's house or the pub, I never have had it. I just mean I find it very odd that anything they do would be motivated by some sort of selfless inherent 'wokeness' as opposed to their marketing strategy and focus group information.

Same as I said above. I don't find radio 1 especially palatable now, but I'm 41, not 14 now. Radio one isn't alienating me, it's just seeking a new audience.

Fair enough td53 and that you don't have Sky doesn't mean you can't have a say.

I think that as an organisation they are clearly paying a lot of attention to "wokeness" - I'll call it that just because you did !!!!!!! - and their commitment to BLM and associated issues is a good example of that.

They are also trying to seek a new audience as you suggest.

Personally, I just feel that they need to be seen to doing the right thing and in many cases they will be doing the right thing but I am sure there will be times when things are done more in line with being sure to be doing the right thing and in the right manner.

Some things will be done because they are the right thing to do, other things will be done to help obtain new and bigger audiences, I guess we could argue over any exact split but personally I feel that they will move away from the "wokeness" when it is not as in vogue.
 
Why not? Should license fees be used to subsidise the inflated wages of premier league players? Cos they are. Players earn far more than is justified by what gate revenue is and the BBC money is a (small) part of that. Therefore, their wages are subsidised' by the licence payer.

Subsidise is an over simplification. The BBC pay a paltry sum. Probably (I could look this up but I'm 99% sure I'm right) a lot, lot less than they pay for Prem highlights.

They get a product.

Should license fees be used to subsidise songs of praise or cooking shows? Literally, what's the difference? You pay a fee, you get a product.

TV coverage (pre sky) basically made snooker as a serious professional game. Darts too (I think)

Why is women's football different to the above?
Exactly.
 
Fair enough td53 and that you don't have Sky doesn't mean you can't have a say.

I think that as an organisation they are clearly paying a lot of attention to "wokeness" - I'll call it that just because you did !!!!!!! - and their commitment to BLM and associated issues is a good example of that.

They are also trying to seek a new audience as you suggest.

Personally, I just feel that they need to be seen to doing the right thing and in many cases they will be doing the right thing but I am sure there will be times when things are done more in line with being sure to be doing the right thing and in the right manner.

Some things will be done because they are the right thing to do, other things will be done to help obtain new and bigger audiences, I guess we could argue over any exact split but personally I feel that they will move away from the "wokeness" when it is not as in vogue.
I know it doesn't.

If social attitudes didn't change, neither would culture and vice versa.

Football culture doesn't lead, it follows (largely) and all we're seeing is the turning of the wheel in society. Football isn't immune to that. George best grew long hair and had his shirt untucked. That sent people into fury who grew up on football of the 30s I'm sure. Just as Elvis swiveling his hips created moral panic.

You honestly think somewhere in sky there is a 'woke' department trying to find ways to change the world? Or do you think there are marketing executives, pouring over the subscriber base and trying to come up with ways to appeal to new people in order to get money.

Sky took football in the early 90s and did all sorts of stuff to it that pissed off a lot of people. That's because it made them money.

That's what they're trying to do now. It's their job.
 
Why not? Should license fees be used to subsidise the inflated wages of premier league players? Cos they are. Players earn far more than is justified by what gate revenue is and the BBC money is a (small) part of that. Therefore, their wages are subsidised' by the licence payer.

Subsidise is an over simplification. The BBC pay a paltry sum. Probably (I could look this up but I'm 99% sure I'm right) a lot, lot less than they pay for Prem highlights.

They get a product.

Should license fees be used to subsidise songs of praise or cooking shows? Literally, what's the difference? You pay a fee, you get a product.

TV coverage (pre sky) basically made snooker as a serious professional game. Darts too (I think)

Why is women's football different to the above?

td53

3 hours on here so bailing but I will respond to your last point - but anymore and it will have to be another time.

Of course, in womens football, the BBC get a product and you are obviously right in saying that they pay less for womens football than they do for Match of the Day.

Match of the Day attracts the viewers - that's total viewing figures and regardless of any male/female split - to justify the outlay made on the broadcasting rights/production etc, etc.

Other sports have been axed by the BBC despite attracting bigger viewing figures than womens football and having lower costs.

Womens football does not attract the viewing figures - that's total viewing figures and regardless of any male/female split - to justify the outlay.

There are other benefits to the broadcasting of womens football/sports to which I have already referred.

The cooking shows or whatever shows you referred to will be dropped in line with any serious fall in popularity but womens football is being promoted without the viewing figures to justify the outlay and it is - certainly at the moment - being subsidised.

That's just looking at it from a BBC point of view because somebody referred to license fees.

It certainly can not be argued that the womens professional football game in the UK is not subsidised by the male professional game.

Apologies for chunnering td53, you make good and fair points and we can discuss things another time but I'm out for now - unless of course I have another question in another alert that has just popped up.
 
I know it doesn't.

If social attitudes didn't change, neither would culture and vice versa.

Football culture doesn't lead, it follows (largely) and all we're seeing is the turning of the wheel in society. Football isn't immune to that. George best grew long hair and had his shirt untucked. That sent people into fury who grew up on football of the 30s I'm sure. Just as Elvis swiveling his hips created moral panic.

You honestly think somewhere in sky there is a 'woke' department trying to find ways to change the world? Or do you think there are marketing executives, pouring over the subscriber base and trying to come up with ways to appeal to new people in order to get money.

Sky took football in the early 90s and did all sorts of stuff to it that pissed off a lot of people. That's because it made them money.

That's what they're trying to do now. It's their job.

td53

The alert was from you !!!!!!!!!!

Again, I think you make good points.

I think there are just 2 things we disagree on:

1. Womens football/sport - I think it's over exposed but accept that there are other benefits

2 Sky strategy - I think they put too much into "woke" issues

I'm not going to say what you think for fear of misrepresenting what you think but you made good and fair points throughout and we just hold differing views.
 
td53

3 hours on here so bailing but I will respond to your last point - but anymore and it will have to be another time.

Of course, in womens football, the BBC get a product and you are obviously right in saying that they pay less for womens football than they do for Match of the Day.

Match of the Day attracts the viewers - that's total viewing figures and regardless of any male/female split - to justify the outlay made on the broadcasting rights/production etc, etc.

Other sports have been axed by the BBC despite attracting bigger viewing figures than womens football and having lower costs.

Womens football does not attract the viewing figures - that's total viewing figures and regardless of any male/female split - to justify the outlay.

There are other benefits to the broadcasting of womens football/sports to which I have already referred.

The cooking shows or whatever shows you referred to will be dropped in line with any serious fall in popularity but womens football is being promoted without the viewing figures to justify the outlay and it is - certainly at the moment - being subsidised.

That's just looking at it from a BBC point of view because somebody referred to license fees.

It certainly can not be argued that the womens professional football game in the UK is not subsidised by the male professional game.

Apologies for chunnering td53, you make good and fair points and we can discuss things another time but I'm out for now - unless of course I have another question in another alert that has just popped up.
Neither can it be argued that the woman's professional game had any chance to develop seen as the men's game literally banned it.

Tell me, in the light of that fact, in the light of it having no meaningful history or tradition to draw upon (as it was effectively banned) how it should grow if not by clubs, broadcasters or authorities investing in it?

The BBC is not simply ruled by viewing figures either. It has a remit to show X, y and z and sport is one of those things. It also has a remit to society and the popularising of women's football has literally no social downside I can think of.

The point of the BBC in this day and age shouldn't be simply to chase viewers, there are literally hundreds of commercial channels built for that. The BBC should offer a platform for arts, culture, education etc that might not be served by those commercial platforms.

As I said above. Woman's football is not about NOW. It's about the position the sport is in in 20, 25, 30 years time and if it doesn't have some exposure, it won't gain followers. If it doesn't gain followers how will it ever pay its way?

What is the other way to grow the game? Not as a participatory kickabout at school or a youth club, but as a destination for grown women to compete professionally?

You keep expressing doubt and calling it 'over exposure' but you don't actually outline an alternative to address what is, without question, a problem that has been historically caused by the attitudes of the male game.

If you look at the US where male/female football grew more in parallel, the female game is far better developed and the US female team is probably more culturally feted than the male one.

Why isn't that the case here? Because the men's game crushed the womens game.
 
How many have actually watched a full match? Especially those who moan about the standard and the so called over exposure?
 
I’ve watched plenty of ladies cricket and watched a bit of the women’s World Cup football. Some decent stuff to be fair but I wouldn’t subscribe to it.
 
Thought I'd do some research.

WSL games on the BBC average 285,000 viewers, 85,000 on BT. The highlights show on Sunday on BBC averages 500,000. The World Cup semi drew 11.7m.

The WSL has signed an international rights deal recently. In fact it appears it may have signed several as both SKY Mexico and an Atlanta based US tv network are mentioned in different articles.

This does all suggest there is an audience and whilst Sky are very cagy about viewing figures, it's definitely the case that some of the less edifying EPL games don't get big numbers. The idea that all men's football is a big draw isn't true.

The WSL set a new attendance record (38k Arsenal v Tottenham) recently and according to the telegraph, TV audiences have doubled since 2017.

What I couldn't find anywhere was the cost of the TV rights.

Sources: Telegraph, Sun, some random sports media news pages.
 
Not sure if the point has already been made but the fact is that the only reason Women’s football is being pushed on the BBC is because it was all they could afford when they were priced out of bidding for men’s.

It plays into the inclusive agenda but if they had the men’s premier I doubt they would have given it a second look.

That provided a platform and fair enough the interest has grown with some. However it is not on a par with men’s football at all and I also find it annoying that the headlines and news flow puts it on the same page with men’s football when you are looking at transfer news and score updates.
 
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