The first of many IMHO

Curryman

Curryman

Well-known member
Confirmation is in that Labour has lost control of Oldham council.
Fourteen of the 20 wards have now declared, and five Labour seats have now been lost to independents.

I'm guessing those independents are ex labour and of Asian origin.

If I 'm right, it will be mirrored in other towns and cities with large Asian populations, meaning that local politics will slowly be turned on it's head and become an offshoot of middle east politics.

If I'm wrong I apologise most profusely but will wait and see.
 
Curryman said:
Confirmation is in that Labour has lost control of Oldham council.
Fourteen of the 20 wards have now declared, and five Labour seats have now been lost to independents.

I'm guessing those independents are ex labour and of Asian origin.

If I 'm right, it will be mirrored in other towns and cities with large Asian populations, meaning that local politics will slowly be turned on it's head and become an offshoot of middle east politics.

If I'm wrong I apologise most profusely but will wait and see.
Click to expand...
I think you are 100% spot on about Oldham Wilf.
 
Curryman said:
Confirmation is in that Labour has lost control of Oldham council.
Fourteen of the 20 wards have now declared, and five Labour seats have now been lost to independents.

I'm guessing those independents are ex labour and of Asian origin.

If I 'm right, it will be mirrored in other towns and cities with large Asian populations, meaning that local politics will slowly be turned on it's head and become an offshoot of middle east politics.

If I'm wrong I apologise most profusely but will wait and see.
Click to expand...
Spot on and was always going to happen with Labours lack of balls towards the middle east

There really isn't any difference between Labour and the Conservatives now
 
Mac
Macseasider said:
In the midst of a Labour landslide Oldham is all you boys have to desperately cling onto.
Click to expand...
Mac, I suggest you smell the coffee, this has nothing to do with Cons vs Labour, It's simply my feelings living in an area that has a fair amount of Asian voters and seeing, daily, the warning signs. You mark my words the warnings were there with the Rochdale election result. Now Oldham. I await to see the results in East Lancashire and in West Yorkshire.
 
Curryman said:
Confirmation is in that Labour has lost control of Oldham council.
Fourteen of the 20 wards have now declared, and five Labour seats have now been lost to independents.

I'm guessing those independents are ex labour and of Asian origin.

If I 'm right, it will be mirrored in other towns and cities with large Asian populations, meaning that local politics will slowly be turned on it's head and become an offshoot of middle east politics.

If I'm wrong I apologise most profusely but will wait and see.
Click to expand...
There's certainly a tangible point to your suspicion. The Israeli war is front and centre right now so this may well play out in the way you suggest. Something to keep an eye on.
 
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Galloway’s party picking up a few seats (far fewer than the Lib Dem’s but more than Reform). But if anyone thinks that’d stop a Labour majority I’d say they’re indulging in wishful thinking. Any losses are more than likely going to be made up for with gains from the SNP in Scotland.
 
Curryman said:
Mac

Mac, I suggest you smell the coffee, this has nothing to do with Cons vs Labour, It's simply my feelings living in an area that has a fair amount of Asian voters and seeing, daily, the warning signs. You mark my words the warnings were there with the Rochdale election result. Now Oldham. I await to see the results in East Lancashire and in West Yorkshire.
Click to expand...
Dear me. You sound like me mum.
 
I totally agree with Wilf and am amazed that some think, that by ignoring what is going on right in front of them, that everything in the garden is rosey. I would imagine that if you lived in an area where there was a massive influx of Asians that people may see the problem differently.

What's the saying?
Great oaks from little acorns grow.
 
Wizzerboy said:
I totally agree with Wilf and am amazed that some think, that by ignoring what is going on right in front of them, that everything in the garden is rosey. I would imagine that if you lived in an area where there was a massive influx of Asians that people may see the problem differently.

What's the saying?
Great oaks from little acorns grow.
Click to expand...
Or massive influx of Protestants into Catholic areas?
 
Wizzerboy said:
Yeh, absolutely nothing to worry about let's just carry on, la la la la la la
Click to expand...
But what are you worried about?

Colonel Smithe in Chipping Norton votes Reform and his views are a million miles away from mine, doesn't keep me up at night to be honest.
 
I'm sorry to say, it appears that some of what I have said has happened.

I haven't checked all election results, but can confirm that Labour have retained the council in Bradford, with a smaller majority, the losses appear to have gone to one Green and a number of disaffected Labour, now Independent, Asian pro Palestinian councillors. So Lytham there is your answer. Are these LOCAL councilors going to deal fairly with those who have differing views to theirs? Or will they be more interested in what is happening in the middle east? I know where my money lies!
 
Curryman said:
I'm sorry to say, it appears that some of what I have said has happened.

I haven't checked all election results, but can confirm that Labour have retained the council in Bradford, with a smaller majority, the losses appear to have gone to one Green and a number of disaffected Labour, now Independent, Asian pro Palestinian councillors. So Lytham there is your answer. Are these LOCAL councilors going to deal fairly with those who have differing views to theirs? Or will they be more interested in what is happening in the middle east? I know where my money lies!
Click to expand...
Don't be concerned Wilf there's absolutely nothing to worry about.
 
For anyone who is still not convinced about the fall out from all this I suggest you read the comments section in the Bradford Telegraph & Argus. A number of well known local labour councillors have lost their seats to pro Palestinian Independents.
 
Wizzerboy said:
I totally agree with Wilf and am amazed that some think, that by ignoring what is going on right in front of them, that everything in the garden is rosey. I would imagine that if you lived in an area where there was a massive influx of Asians that people may see the problem differently.

What's the saying?
Great oaks from little acorns grow.
Click to expand...
The massive influx took place mainly 60/70 years ago. Certainly the case in Oldham.
 
Not sure what there is to see here.
When Corbyn was in charge, Luciana Berger and others left Labour and stood for other parties at elections. This is the same sort of thing. It's democracy.
Labour are looking at their policies towards the Gaza crisis as a result of this trend.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Aren't Reform a foreign policy issue party?
Click to expand...
How so? They aren't elected on one issue that doesn't affect the country.

They have a manifesto relevant to the country and want to promote and better the country.

If they got elected for local council elections on a ticket only to make trump great again... it'd be rather weird.
 
Just seen a clip of the Green Party candidate in Leeds celebrating his victory by shouting “Allahu Akbar!”… I’m guessing this isn’t anything to do with recycling or dropping the charges on the garden/waste bin?

All seems perfectly normal and nothing to worry about particularly as his opening gambit after victory talks about foreign conflict with the Palestine flag on show.

I’m not worried about it, but I bet there’s lots of people in Gipton & Harehills who are wondering what this chap is going to do for their local community…
 
Curryman said:
For anyone who is still not convinced about the fall out from all this I suggest you read the comments section in the Bradford Telegraph & Argus. A number of well known local labour councillors have lost their seats to pro Palestinian Independents.
Click to expand...
It's noticeable - and instructive - that this wish to punish Labour for its (apparent) anti-Palestine position, has not been replicated in London. Possibly not in the West Midlands either.
 
Last edited:
Lytham_fy8 said:
Especially when they don't know why it worries them so much.

Stupid thread really.
Click to expand...
The only stupidity in this thread is from you, Instead of pontificating and winding up from your ivory tower, I would suggest you try living in Bradford for 12 months. That way you will see exactly what is going on. Oh, and just to add that the local council have accepted the temptation of receiving a few bob to provide accommodation for more immigrants, druggies and other ner do wells, yet at the same time pulling down accommodation already used for such people, farming them out to other parts of the conurbation without any thought for the people who live there. I could go on but I don't wish to bore you, suffice to say if you think Blackpool is bad, come to next years Capital of culture Bradford. You can ignore red lights, make up your own rules for driving including overtaking, under taking and speeding, you can park three abreast from the pavement onto the road and the bus lane without fear of prosecution, let fireworks off nightly after 11p.m. (look up the law on that one) burn buildings down if you can't get planning permission for changes to their use, dump all sorts of rubbish around the area, including used oil which gives away the type of business that is dumping and that is just skimming the surface.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Just seen a clip of the Green Party candidate in Leeds celebrating his victory by shouting “Allahu Akbar!”… I’m guessing this isn’t anything to do with recycling or dropping the charges on the garden/waste bin?

All seems perfectly normal and nothing to worry about particularly as his opening gambit after victory talks about foreign conflict with the Palestine flag on show.

I’m not worried about it, but I bet there’s lots of people in Gipton & Harehills who are wondering what this chap is going to do for their local community…
Click to expand...

Yeah probably nothing to see here, just 'the green party'...

 
Curryman said:
The only stupidity in this thread is from you, Instead of pontificating and winding up from your ivory tower, I would suggest you try living in Bradford for 12 months. That way you will see exactly what is going on. Oh, and just to add that the local council have accepted the temptation of receiving a few bob to provide accommodation for more immigrants, druggies and other ner do wells, yet at the same time pulling down accommodation already used for such people, farming them out to other parts of the conurbation without any thought for the people who live there. I could go on but I don't wish to bore you, suffice to say if you think Blackpool is bad, come to next years Capital of culture Bradford. You can ignore red lights, make up your own rules for driving including overtaking, under taking and speeding, you can park three abreast from the pavement onto the road and the bus lane without fear of prosecution, let fireworks off nightly after 11p.m. (look up the law on that one) burn buildings down if you can't get planning permission for changes to their use, dump all sorts of rubbish around the area, including used oil which gives away the type of business that is dumping and that is just skimming the surface.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've never left Blackpool or worked extensively in the communities of Oldham, Blackburn and Burnley, far closer I would imagine than you, maybe that's why I'm less prejudiced and scared.

Feel free to post whatever you like but don't get too chippy if someone challenges it, as if you speak nothing but the truth, it's your opinion, just like mine.

All of your experiences could be attributed to any poorer community, try going in to Hartcliffe in Bristol on a Saturday night for example, which is almost exclusively British White by the way.

I'm more than happy to compare life experiences if you want to know which of us is really pontificating from their ivory tower pal. Just let me know.
 
Last edited:
JJpool said:
How so? They aren't elected on one issue that doesn't affect the country.

They have a manifesto relevant to the country and want to promote and better the country.

If they got elected for local council elections on a ticket only to make trump great again... it'd be rather weird.
Click to expand...
True. Reform have centred their electoral pitch around four key topics: lower taxes, net zero immigration, cheaper energy, and zero waiting lists.

Behind those headline policies, however, lie some pretty dire solutions. For instance, the reduction of waiting lists to zero would be kick started by offering vouchers for private treatment to anyone waiting longer than three days for a GP appointment. That may sound reasonable enough but it is not a stop-gap whilst the NHS recovers. No, it is the thin end of a wedge that sees the ultimate dismantling of the NHS and a move towards an American-style health insurance scheme. That is how Reform can promote the seemingly contradictory pledges of zero waiting lists and lower taxation.

Again, cheaper energy sounds great but how can that be achieved if neither Labour nor Conservative Governments can stand on that ticket? Well, it involves the abolition of the net zero target - Reform does not believe in the existential threat of climate change - and a huge reduction in taxes for the carbon-based energy providers. They would expect some of the windfall profits from this policy to trickle down to energy end-users.

Lower taxes beyond those required to maintain the NHS (which will no longer exist), will come from a massive reduction in the welfare state, a continuing reduction in grants to local authorities, and a general reduction in the size of the State. It is not difficult to see that this would impact hugely and negatively on all but the most wealthy sector of our society.

As for net-zero immigration, a Reform-led future would not only see zero immigration but also the expulsion of immigrants who have become British citizens. You may not find any of their literature that says this but it is not difficult to look behind their sugar-coated headline policies.

So yes, whilst there's more to Reform than wanting to 'make Trump great again' their policies mirror the trumpian world view so, in fact, what Reform is actually saying is, let's make Trump's policies great for Britain.
 
Last edited:
1966_and_all_that said:
True. Reform have centred their electoral pitch around four key topics: lower taxes, net zero immigration, cheaper energy, and zero waiting lists.

Behind those headline policies, however, lie some pretty dire solutions. For instance, the reduction of waiting lists to zero would be kick started by offering vouchers for private treatment to anyone waiting longer than three days for a GP appointment. That may sound reasonable enough but it is not a stop-gap whilst the NHS recovers. No, it is the thin end of a wedge that sees the ultimate dismantling of the NHS and a move towards an American-style health insurance scheme. That is how Reform can promote the seemingly contradictory pledges of zero waiting lists and lower taxation.

Again, cheaper energy sounds great but how can that be achieved if neither Labour nor Conservative Governments can stand on that ticket. Well, it involves the abolition of the net zero target - Reform does not believe in the existential threat of climate change - and a huge reduction in taxes for the carbon-based energy providers. They would expect some of the windfall profits from this policy to trickle down to energy end-users.

Lower taxes beyond those required to maintain the NHS (which will no longer exist), will come from a massive reduction in the welfare state, a continuing reduction in grants to local authorities, a a general reduction in the size of the State. It is not difficult to see that this would impact hugely and negatively on all but the most wealthy sector of our society.

As for net-zero immigration, a Reform-led future would not only see zero immigration but also the expulsion of immigrants who have become British citizens. You may not find any of their literature that says this but it is not difficult to look behind their sugar-coated headline policies.

So yes, whilst there's more to Reform than wanting to 'make Trump great again' their policies mirror the trumpian world view so, in fact, what Reform is actually saying is, let's make Trump's policies great for Britain.
Click to expand...
The irony is that the private treatment is often carried out by NHS clinicians in NHS facilities, effectively blocking out that time to public treatment as it pays better.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
True. Reform have centred their electoral pitch around four key topics: lower taxes, net zero immigration, cheaper energy, and zero waiting lists.

Behind those headline policies, however, lie some pretty dire solutions. For instance, the reduction of waiting lists to zero would be kick started by offering vouchers for private treatment to anyone waiting longer than three days for a GP appointment. That may sound reasonable enough but it is not a stop-gap whilst the NHS recovers. No, it is the thin end of a wedge that sees the ultimate dismantling of the NHS and a move towards an American-style health insurance scheme. That is how Reform can promote the seemingly contradictory pledges of zero waiting lists and lower taxation.

Again, cheaper energy sounds great but how can that be achieved if neither Labour nor Conservative Governments can stand on that ticket? Well, it involves the abolition of the net zero target - Reform does not believe in the existential threat of climate change - and a huge reduction in taxes for the carbon-based energy providers. They would expect some of the windfall profits from this policy to trickle down to energy end-users.

Lower taxes beyond those required to maintain the NHS (which will no longer exist), will come from a massive reduction in the welfare state, a continuing reduction in grants to local authorities, and a general reduction in the size of the State. It is not difficult to see that this would impact hugely and negatively on all but the most wealthy sector of our society.

As for net-zero immigration, a Reform-led future would not only see zero immigration but also the expulsion of immigrants who have become British citizens. You may not find any of their literature that says this but it is not difficult to look behind their sugar-coated headline policies.

So yes, whilst there's more to Reform than wanting to 'make Trump great again' their policies mirror the trumpian world view so, in fact, what Reform is actually saying is, let's make Trump's policies great for Britain.
Click to expand...
Quite how every thread turns into a full blown debate about reform is odd, seem to be the new hate party for many on the left, like gb news is a channel.

You assessed it then said it's on the way to privatisation, which is your own biased take.

BTW waiting lists from the pandemic would be far higher under Labour and so would all of the associated harms from lockdowns. That's a fact.

Idk why it's even worth debating as no one will change their mind.

However again you're not right, it's not that they don't believe in climate change I don't think, but the speed and pain of net zero is going to be costly and considering how small a part we play in global emissions, there's better ways to tackle it that done cripple the country. Planting trees, technological advances, cleaner fuels etc, you actually reduce C02 by not importing gas . The net zero targets are all proving too much too soon anyway and there are also scare stories about the pace of it.

Again,you haven't fairly assessed it at all you've inserted your own bias, the NHS won't cease to exist at all, complete rubbish.

The raising of income tax is designed to make work pay, encouraging people to work over benefits where possible and also to crack down on those taking the Michael.

1966_and_all_that said:
As for net-zero immigration, a Reform-led future would not only see zero immigration but also the expulsion of immigrants who have become British citizens. You may not find any of their literature that says this but it is not difficult to look behind their sugar-coated headline policies.
Click to expand...
Now you're literally just making stuff up to suit your own biased views, a really poor effort.

Stop wasting mine and everybody's time and hijacking the thread for your made up rants.
 
JJpool said:
Quite how every thread turns into a full blown debate about reform is odd, seem to be the new hate party for many on the left, like gb news is a channel.

You assessed it then said it's on the way to privatisation, which is your own biased take.

BTW waiting lists from the pandemic would be far higher under Labour and so would all of the associated harms from lockdowns. That's a fact.

Idk why it's even worth debating as no one will change their mind.

However again you're not right, it's not that they don't believe in climate change I don't think, but the speed and pain of net zero is going to be costly and considering how small a part we play in global emissions, there's better ways to tackle it that done cripple the country. Planting trees, technological advances, cleaner fuels etc, you actually reduce C02 by not importing gas . The net zero targets are all proving too much too soon anyway and there are also scare stories about the pace of it.

Again,you haven't fairly assessed it at all you've inserted your own bias, the NHS won't cease to exist at all, complete rubbish.

The raising of income tax is designed to make work pay, encouraging people to work over benefits where possible and also to crack down on those taking the Michael.
You make a supposition s

Now you're literally just making stuff up to suit your own biased views, a really poor effort.

Stop wasting mine and everybody's time and hijacking the thread for your made up rants.
Click to expand...
OK, I'll keep it short.

You make a supposition about waiting times during the pandemic IF Labour had been in power and call it a fact. Labour weren't in office and it's not a fact.

You missed stating what I think would be privatised under Reform but I'm assuming you mean the NHS. Farrage has spoken long and often about needing to abolish the NHS and Reform's stated short term idea of providing private healthcare vouchers for people waiting longer than 3 days for a GP appointment is the thin end of that privatisation wedge.

Regarding climate change Reform accept its existence as a natural phenomenon. They do not, however, accept the science of huge human affected climate change. They do not accept that aiming for net zero emissions will beneficially curtail this human-influenced climate change. They are proactively in favour of continuing the exploitation of carbon-based fuels. This runs counter to the scientific evidence that this will harm the environment in the short, medium and long terms.

Your section on raising taxes does not make sense, literally. You may need to restate it.

As for my contribution to the thread. I am glad you found it illuminating.
 
Last edited:
Saying Allahu Akbar isn't so different from people saying "thank God" and meaning it.

There's plenty of Christians (different denominations) and people of other faiths across the political spectrum - many of whom who pray.

It's not a war cry.

I think I have an issue with the fact there's a few people using Palestine as a reason to get elected; and how much they know about the rest of governing a council - but it's democracy and I don't think it's any stranger than a bloke in a monkey suit being elected Mayor in three consecutive elections!!
 
Last edited:
TSSeasider said:
Saying Allahu Akbar isn't so different from people saying "thank God" and meaning it.

There's plenty of Christians (different denominations) and people of other faiths across the political spectrum - many of whom who pray.

It's not a war cry.

I think I have an issue with the fact there's a few people using Palestine as a reason to get elected; and how much they know about the rest of governing a council - but it's democracy and I don't think it's any stranger than a bloke in a monkey suit being elected Mayor in the consecutive elections!!
Click to expand...
It's not just the speaking of words, BTW words that are often shouted when an atrocity is committed by Muslim extremists.

If atrocities were committed by Christians and they shouted something God related, 'in the name of Jesus' maybe, the next time you see someone aggressively shouting the same you might not be so comfortable.

It's not the way politics, especially local council politics, should be conducted and obviously isn't a good look.
 
JJpool said:
It's not just the speaking of words, BTW words that are often shouted when an atrocity is committed by Muslim extremists.

If atrocities were committed by Christians and they shouted something God related, 'in the name of Jesus' maybe, the next time you see someone aggressively shouting the same you might not be so comfortable.

It's not the way politics, especially local council politics, should be conducted and obviously isn't a good look.
Click to expand...

I take your point; but when you think about the Pope leading services at the Vatican.

He leads, the thousands outside repeat and respond - it's how religious experiences have been orchestrated for a centuries; mostly as people were illiterate.

In terms of politics, we have a long history or rabble rousing public speaking. Peter Mandleson "I'm a fighter, not a quitter" trades unionists giving it large.

As for being in the presence of it, I've been to plenty of Muslim services and a Muslim funeral etc - it didn't and doesn't intimidate me, probably because of this.

Yes, we will always get people twisting religion and we need to stop the Islamic fascists but other than that, I'm a live and let live type of bloke.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
OK, I'll keep it short.

You make a supposition about waiting times during the pandemic IF Labour had been in power and call it a fact. Labour weren't in office and it's not a fact.

You missed stating what I think would be privatised under Reform but I'm assuming you mean the NHS. Farrage has spoken long and often about needing to abolish the NHS and Reform's stated short term idea of providing private healthcare vouchers for people waiting longer than 3 days for a GP appointment is the thin end of that privatisation wedge.

Regarding climate change Reform accept its existence as a natural phenomenon. They do not, however, accept the science of huge human affected climate change. They do not accept that aiming for net zero emissions will beneficially curtail this human-influenced climate change. They are proactively in favour of continuing the exploitation of carbon-based fuels. This runs counter to the scientific evidence that this will harm the environment in the short, medium and long terms.

Your section on raising taxes does not make sense, literally. You may need to restate it.

As for my contribution to the thread. I am glad you found it illuminating.
Click to expand...
Labour wanted longer lockdowns, that's a fact, if they were in, lockdown related harms would be worse.

Farage once talked about an insurance system. Nowt wrong with seeing how others do things and comparing. No one wants rid of the NHS just it needs Reform.

I think what they question is the effect if net zero in this country at stopping it. You can't stop it, only possibly slow it and even if the best targets were hit now it would still happen. Also the effect of us, 1% of global emissions, can actually have by crippling ourselves. For me I've no issue being sensible and where possible renewable is fine, nuclear, tree planting, technological advances etc. But it seems stupid to harm ourselves where for example a lot of the time you're shifting industry elsewhere, or imporonting gas once you realise the targets are unattainable, costing more c02 apparently 3 or 4 times more. We can certainly make an effort but not cripple the country is my position.

The policy about raising income tax threshold which is what we were on about, to make work pay.

Anyway, no point going round and round.
 
TSSeasider said:
I take your point; but when you think about the Pope leading services at the Vatican.

He leads, the thousands outside repeat and respond - it's how religious experiences have been orchestrated for a centuries; mostly as people were illiterate.

In terms of politics, we have a long history or rabble rousing public speaking. Peter Mandleson "I'm a fighter, not a quitter" trades unionists giving it large.

As for being in the presence of it, I've been to plenty of Muslim services and a Muslim funeral etc - it didn't and doesn't intimidate me, probably because of this.

Yes, we will always get people twisting religion and we need to stop the Islamic fascists but other than that, I'm a live and let live type of bloke.
Click to expand...
The main points for me are this guy was elected on one issue nothing to do with the local area in a local election, does he even care about green policies?

Shouting that phrase like a lunatic after being elected isn't a good look. I mean Khan is a Muslim and doesn't do it, but probably has strong feelings on it as well, as at least he's, for all the criticism, a proper politician.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top