OT Corona Virus/Flu Some Perspective?

In Newark Airport waiting for my flight, very very quite. Im hoping Liverpool won’t see a spike after allowing 3000 Madrid fans into the city the other night.
stop these flights coming in from hotspots.
 
We should be on lockdown, learn from Italy’s mistakes. China was like a ghost town, yes they had it first but do you hear much about it there now?

I would rather say two weeks down the line we were over the top then we could have done more.

Go on lock down, reduce the spread, stop people entering the country unless essential/residents or have some procedures in place to swab on arrival or quarantine until they have got the clear, we can’t be taking this light hearted now the figures are jumping up rapidly.

This attitude of “I have no under lying conditions I’ll survive if I get it” is just wrong, think who you could pass it on to, most of you will have elderly family or friends or people suffering with health conditions that if they caught it would be fatal, just stop being so pig ignorant and selfish.

Also people need to realise this is a Respiratory illness, stop comparing it to a common cold or cough, this is FAR worse.
 
Funny how Brexit was supposed to protect our borders yet we seem to be one of the few countries that haven't bothered closing ours down.
Here's more news regarding a vaccine.

www.theguardian.com

Brexit means coronavirus vaccine will be slower to reach the UK

And it will cost more here because of the UK pulling out of the European Medicines Agency on 30 December• Three experts explain why Brexit leaves the UK less able to respond to pandemic• Coronavirus – latest updates• See all our coronavirus coverage
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Bloodtangerine said:
So there is no such a thing as natural immunity??......no point debating Joe
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Here's the view of an expert:





@BallouxFrancois

How long immunity lasts for following covid-19 infection is the biggest unknown. Comparison with other Coronaviridae suggests it may be relatively short-lived (i.e. months). If this were to be confirmed, it would add to the challenge of managing the pandemic.
 
What's concerning me is the numbers coming out of China. They have over 80,000 cases but daily are only reporting between 10 and 20 new cases. This figure surely can't be correct. If they are correct then we all need to do what they have done or are doing. The daily figures coming from Italy, Spain and soon to be our figures would appear that we will soon be surpassing the Chinese figures.

Maybe it has got to a point where they aren't recording cases over there too but the death rate is really low too with less than 30 every day for the last 2 weeks. Something doesn't add up somewhere
 
Alf said:
Sorry I think people such as yourself are really not getting it at all. With the greatest respect, balls to your skiing holiday. It does not register anywhere on the Richter scale of misfortune right now.

It worries me that people aren't getting it and I wonder what it is going to take. Here in Holland the situation is nuts, nobody cares at all. Had a situation at work where I had to talk to some military police and they both went to shake my hand after. The high street in my village was jam packed today like any other Saturday and full of elderly like any other Saturday. The train to work, jam packed with people over 60, and it goes through Schiphol so lots of tourists getting on everyday. Today I watched a whole queue of people all run their hands across the handle of a door that was already open, just force of habit.

It's sort of like when you're in the relegation zone by 25 points and somebody says 'well it's still mathematically possible we could stay up'. That's the hope most European governments seem to be clinging to, and as long as any government has the wrong attitude there will of course be lots of people willing to take that side of the story just for peace of mind, rather than inform themselves and look around the bull.

The fact is, if everybody was educated and consistent, then it actually would not be so bad ultimately. But people are burying their heads in the sand so there is no chance it's getting better any time soon. Unless by miracle.
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Hi Alf. I am also in The Netherlands (Vlaardingen - where are you?). I can’t say that I totally agree with what you say about the situation here. The government advised everyone on Thursday to work at home, if possible.
Also, the Eredivisie (Dutch prem league) was suspended days before we did the same. I have noticed the roads are much quieter and on Friday they started panic buying toilet rolls!
 
Bloodtangerine said:
So there is no such a thing as natural immunity??......no point debating Joe
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I'd rather listen to the 245 scientists who said today that "the UK going for 'herd immunity' is not a viable option and risks many more lives than necessary. Thousands of deaths could potentially be avoided if social distancing measures were put in place immediately. Such action could slow the spread of covid-19 dramatically."
 
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Blood sure most people will get through it & develop immunity from this strain.
What about if the virus mutates & new strains appear every year like the flu?
Maybe wrong but I think i would be happier in an Island country with no land borders that has taken proactive actions to limit its spread such as Singapore & New Zealand rather than the UKs approach.
We do seem to be creeping up the league table.

We dont know what to believe on 'Herd immunity'. I get we are in unchartered territory & many so called experts disagree.. Surely containment is better if possible?
Is it just a phrase chucked out when the horse has bolted? I dont remember hearing it with sars or mers who i think are from the same family of virus?
 
tommytwojags said:
I'd rather listen to the 245 scientists who said today that "the UK going for 'herd immunity' is not a viable option and risks many more lives than necessary. Thousands of deaths could potentially be avoided if social distancing measures were put in place immediately. Such action could slow the spread of COVID-19 dramatically."
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BUT don't change your point....that ISNT what you said at all Joe...go back to your post that I challenged
 
deary said:
Blood sure most people will get through it & develop immunity from this strain.
What about if the virus mutates & new strains appear every year like the flu?
Maybe wrong but I think i would be happier in an Island country with no land borders that has taken proactive actions to limit its spread such as Singapore & New Zealand rather than the UKs approach.
We do seem to be creeping up the league table.

We dont know what to believe on 'Herd immunity'. I get we are in unchartered territory & many so called experts disagree.. Surely containment is better if possible?
Is it just a phrase chucked out when the horse has bolted never heard it with sars or mers?
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deary, we all know hee haw...simple as that and I am ** bored listening to cocks on here or my everyday life
pretending that THEY know best ..it’s laughable
 
tommytwojags said:
I'd rather listen to the 245 scientists who said today that "the UK going for 'herd immunity' is not a viable option and risks many more lives than necessary. Thousands of deaths could potentially be avoided if social distancing measures were put in place immediately. Such action could slow the spread of COVID-19 dramatically."
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Herd Immunity hasn't worked too well for various other infectious diseases...It's basically a cobbled together solution focused on protecting the economy, rather than the lives of British people. Significant reversal next week the WHO and the British public aren't about to let Boris cull our fellow citzens.
 
Bloodtangerine said:
BUT don't change your point....that ISNT what you said at all Joe...go back to your post that I challenged
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What I said Blood was "Most people think our so called 'experts' have got it wrong with the 'herd immunity' nonsense Bennys. The real experts say immunity can only happen if 40m Brits are infected first."
I posted that before I knew what the scientists had said today. Seems they have taken the same line.
 
tommytwojags said:
What I said Blood was "Most people think our so called 'experts' have got it wrong with the 'herd immunity' nonsense Bennys. The real experts say immunity can only happen if 40m Brits are infected first."
I posted that before I knew what the scientists had said today. Seems they have taken the same line.
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I ain’t referring to that Joe
 
There’s no treatment so if you get it and most of us will it’s pot luck. Arguing the toss on some football message board won’t change anything.
 
I get ya Blood. Its the age we live in everyone thinks they know best🙃.
I suppose we will just have to see how it unfolds. None of us have a crystal ball & its easy to place the blame in hindsight.
I just wish we had done more 1st to limit transmission.
Maybe the whole World should just send the bill to China?
Perhaps an economic powerhouse, with a society that seems to show a lack of regard to animal welfare, cross contamination & hygiene should be more held to account?
 
The only thing we know for definite is that even the scientists can't agree on the best course of action, mainly because little is actually known about the virus.

So all the "facts" being spouted on social media are not facts, they're opinions. And to be frank many people are using them to score political points. If you believe twitter, Boris has been stood over a cauldron mixing this virus to deliberately infect people and should be tried for genocide. Utterly ridiculous.

And the talk of a u-turn is nonsense too - the plan has always been to restrict mass gatherings and go towards a lock down state, it's just that they didn't want to do it too soon. Whether thats right or wrong no one knows (unless you have a crystal ball), but it isn't a change of heart.
 
The herd mentality is ** garbage.

Here’s the scenario. 60%of the population is what?, 45milll?, the mortality rate is between 2&5%, which equates to between 800,000 to over a million dead!.

This virus is more serious and deadly than most think and will be a massive problem for nearly everyone.
 
Herd immunity is not part of the action plan, but is a natural by-product of an epidemic. The plans aims are to save lives, protect the most vulnerable, and relieve pressure on the NHS.
 
1950s. But it seems to be UK government policy to have a controlled spread to build up the immunity? So arguably the “keep calm and carry on” approach is the right one? And not selfish at all?

Frankly I don’t have any idea what the right approach is; and neither it seems does any government in the world.

Italy and Spain going into total lockdown including domestic travel; France and Belgium not going that far but closing down all bars, cafes and restaurants and all shops save for those selling essentials; Poland and other Eastern European countries closing their borders to all; US closing its border to Europeans and Brits. By contrast the UK government doesn’t seem to have done much at all; the football ban was made by the footballing authorities.

Meanwhile the economic effect for businesses (large and small) is huge and can only get worse. How many restaurants for instance can survive a three week (or longer) close down? How many jobs will be lost in the airlines? Will Easy Jet, Ryan Air and BA actually survive?
 
I’m assuming every government is following the advice of its experts. But different countries are taking very different approaches.

That suggests to me there isn’t a single expert view on the best way to tackle it, or how their decisions will pan out over the next month, six months, year.
 
As BFC-53 points out the experts cannot agree on the best responses, mainly due to the lack of accurate data available. I have looked at some of the data coming out of China and there are a couple of interesting anomalies showing.

1) We know the mortaility rate of the young is very low but the data shows the rate of infection in the young is also extremely low. (under 10 is less than 1% and 10-20 year olds just over 1 %). There is no obvious reasons for this as the young should be being infected at the same rate. It is very possible that the rates of infection in the young are similar to the rest of the population but the rate of testing is much lower due to the young not presenting any symptoms due to them, in the main, having stronger auto-immune systems and thus they are killing the virus quicker. There are a few implications of this one of which may be why the UK government have decided not to close schools as of yet (~15 % of UK population is under 20). This also indicates that there are a lot of unreported cases in China supporting the assumption that morality rate is closer than 1 % rather than the 3 % rate (based on those tested positive).
2) The mortality rate for men is twice that of women. There seems to be a reasonable explanation for this in that the smoking rate for men in China is twice that of women. We know that people with hyper-tension, diabetes, serious lung damage are particularly vulnerable to dying from the virus - all conditions related to smoking. The smoking rate in China is nearly double that of the UK (and the amount of cigarettes the average Chinese smoker smokes is about 50 % more than the average UK smoker) so there is hope there that the UK mortality rates will be reduced compared to China. Not good news if you are a smoker but another compellign reason for you to quit asap.

There are still a lot of unknowns, mainly due to the lack of consistent data, which is why the experts are not on the same page. Also it is still not confirmed that you cannot catch the virus twice though there is consensus that a level of acquired immunity is gained from those that recover.
 
Don_K_Lasher said:
The over 65s should be protected.
Can't see how shutting schools helps, better to tell kids not to see their Grandparents for a few weeks.

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Until the staff in schools get it and then there won't be a choice. Looks like South Shore Academy is partially closing due to staff shortages. Only a matter of time I think before it's took out of govt. hands.
 
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** easy this Epidemiology stuff innit. I bet Boris fucks that Chris Whitty bloke off and comes on here for his advice. 🤪
 
Dewster said:
The herd mentality is ** garbage.

Here’s the scenario. 60%of the population is what?, 45milll?, the mortality rate is between 2&5%, which equates to between 800,000 to over a million dead!.

This virus is more serious and deadly than most think and will be a massive problem for nearly everyone.
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Brilliant. Just brilliant.
 
More likely Boris Johnson does what his Billionaire backers tell him and then tells Chris Whitty to find a scientific reasoning to present to the public. These people don't care how many die as long as the money keeps rolling in.
 
catinstalbans said:
More likely Boris Johnson does what his Billionaire backers tell him and then tells Chris Whitty to find a scientific reasoning to present to the public. These people don't care how many die as long as the money keeps rolling in.
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If you genuinely believe that, then I feel sorry for you. You should join Twitter, you'd fit in well there.
Anyway, as mentioned above, one of the best features of this new message board is the ignore button.
 
They've gone full lock down in Benidorm. That link is like a scene from an apocalypse movie.

Anyone got any friends/ relatives on hols at the moment?
 
Interesting that one Loco. I guess in our society though it’s only really going to happen if we all freak out and do it ourselves?
 
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