You don't run a hedge fund...

voyeur said:
My opinion is different.
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But it isn’t an opinion that it is extremely rare for a manager of a championship to move to an assistant at a Premier League club. So therefore there’s quite a large bit of substance and I’d say you’re in the absolute minority in the football world.
 
voyeur said:
Critch may just prefer coaching. Very likely does. But if he wants to manage higher up, making Villa into a good premier League side will carry more weight with Premier League owners than Beale doing a good job at QPR will. And he has 2+years successful management experience on his CV now too to alleviate doubts about him being a manager.
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That is absolute and utter nonsense Voy.

Coaching at Villa will not get him a better job than Beale getting QPR promoted. Never in a million years.
 
SeasideKurt said:
But it isn’t an opinion that it is extremely rare for a manager of a championship to move to an assistant at a Premier League club. So therefore there’s quite a large bit of substance and I’d say you’re in the absolute minority in the football world.
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What's an absolute minority? One person?

I think it's pretty irrelevant how many people have gone from championship manager to Premier League assistant. Every situation is unique. Critch has a unique set of circumstances.

I asked my son and 3 mates at the cricket last night if Critch had taken a backward step and they looked at me funny and one said, er, no, sorry Phil, but working at Villa with Gerrard is not a backward step.
 
voyeur said:
What's an absolute minority? One person?

I think it's pretty irrelevant how many people have gone from championship manager to Premier League assistant. Every situation is unique. Critch has a unique set of circumstances.

I asked my son and 3 mates at the cricket last night if Critch had taken a backward step and they looked at me funny and one said, er, no, sorry Phil, but working at Villa with Gerrard is not a backward step.
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In terms of managing football teams. It’s 100% a backwards step and there’s literally no counter argument to be had. Think it would be unanimously agreed across football too.
 
SeasideKurt said:
That is absolute and utter nonsense Voy.

Coaching at Villa will not get him a better job than Beale getting QPR promoted. Never in a million years.
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I think you're talking nonsense. Producing a successful Villa side carries a lot more weight. There's a chasm between the EPL and the championship and Critch is crossing it. Big clubs need evidence that someone can operate at the top level.

It's patently obvious.
 
SeasideKurt said:
In terms of managing football teams. It’s 100% a backwards step and there’s literally no counter argument to be had. Think it would be unanimously agreed across football too.
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Being 100% sure of yourself doesn't mean you are right. You've got the blinkers on again.
 
NewburyOne said:
I'm not disagreeing it's a step backwards in seniority but people have different values, it could just be as simple as he has more loyalty to his friend Gerrard than Blackpool, wants to coach better players or really likes the idea of securing his families future in terms of financially.
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It could be all sorts of things, who knows!?

For some reason, he’s been motivated to take a step backwards. It’s very possible that money might have been a factor as he’s probably not earned a huge amount previously….. It just feels a bit shallow to give up such a progressive role at the first sniff of a few quid.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It could be all sorts of things, who knows!?

For some reason, he’s been motivated to take a step backwards. It’s very possible that money might have been a factor as he’s probably not earned a huge amount previously….. It just feels a bit shallow to give up such a progressive role at the first sniff of a few quid.
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It's not a few quid though is it? It's millions. You paint every sentence to suit your argument.
 
voyeur said:
Being 100% sure of yourself doesn't mean you are right. You've got the blinkers on again.
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I don’t need to. I’ll run a poll on numerous forums and social media if you really want?

Critch has done what’s best for him. If he wants to just be a coach he’s gone the best route. If he wants to be a manager of a top tier club he hasn’t. Simple.
 
NewburyOne said:
If I had a best mate at a bigger bank who offered to triple my salary to make his brews, offer advice and have less responsibility than my current role, I'd probably take it. It's not the normal move admittedly but I can see why Critchley has gone down this route. If things don't work out under Gerrard, I've no doubt there will be Championship clubs wanting him as their manager/head coach.
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I understand what you are saying. However, if I apply this to my career, then it had 3 stages:
1. Early career - learning the role, gaining experience in senior roles
2. Took easy / big pay (contract) jobs as needed for family.
3. Eventually, needed more senior role and only possible with stage 1 experience
My view is that NC has gone to stage 2 too early if he later wants a managerial role.
 
voyeur said:
I think you're talking nonsense. Producing a successful Villa side carries a lot more weight. There's a chasm between the EPL and the championship and Critch is crossing it. Big clubs need evidence that someone can operate at the top level.

It's patently obvious.
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No it doesn’t at all. A coach is a coach. He doesn’t get fuck all kudos.

So Beale who’s just gone to QPR should have stayed at Villa then? He’s made the wrong move into management. You’re talking absolute garbage.
 
SeasideKurt said:
I don’t need to. I’ll run a poll on numerous forums and social media if you really want?

Critch has done what’s best for him. If he wants to just be a coach he’s gone the best route. If he wants to be a manager of a top tier club he hasn’t. Simple.
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I suspect coaching is his main aim 8n life. Yes. Said so umpteen times. But if Villa do well it will open doors for him. More than managing a lower level club. I suspect.
 
voyeur said:
It's not a few quid though is it? It's millions. You paint every sentence to suit your argument.
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Beale was on around £600K per year and so that would be the sort of salary that Critch would be moving for. I’d imagine he would have been on a decent salary with Blackpool…
 
SeasideKurt said:
No it doesn’t at all. A coach is a coach. He doesn’t get fuck all kudos.

So Beale who’s just gone to QPR should have stayed at Villa then? He’s made the wrong move into management. You’re talking absolute garbage.
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You struggle with polite debate don't you?

We could go back and forth all-day. We disagree. It's my birthday. I'm going to go and enjoy myself. Cheers.
 
Rotterdam+Sussex_Seasider said:
I understand what you are saying. However, if I apply this to my career, then it had 3 stages:
1. Early career - learning the role, gaining experience in senior roles
2. Took easy / big pay (contract) jobs as needed for family.
3. Eventually, needed more senior role and only possible with stage 1 experience
My view is that NC has gone to stage 2 too early if he later wants a managerial role.
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There would be plenty of interest in him as a head coach, let's not call him a manager as he insisted on being titled head coach at BFC, from Championship clubs, if he decides he wants to stick his toe into that water again. His CV may look like a funny path but his stock will remain high, of that I'm sure.
 
Couple of points occur to me:
  1. Critch may think he's taken us as far as he can, promotion and above expectations finish in the Championship, the next season could be pure downside, he can't exceed expectations, he might fail to meet them and end up sacked, in which case all the reputation he has established so far is wasted;
  2. Critch doesn't have any experience in coaching PL players, it's a big gap on his CV, this move should allow him to plug that gap.
So a backwards move or not, I think it may make sense for his career, and it's quite possible he'll get a shot at the top job at Villa, either way I expect to see him back in management in a couple of years or so.
 
voyeur said:
Your imagination again.
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Is that not a bit of an unfair statement?

I’m introducing some factual context into a discussion where we are both expressing individual opinions.

You say ‘My imagination’ as if you have offered something concrete yourself…. You haven’t!!

The £600,000 salary paid to Beale would compare to the ‘Average’ Championship Manager Salary of £870K….
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Is that not a bit of an unfair statement?

I’m introducing sone factual context into a discussion where we are both expressing individual opinions.

You say ‘My imagination’ as if you have offered something concrete yourself…. You haven’t!!

The £600,000 salary paid to Beale would compare to the ‘Average’ Championship Manager Salary of £870K….
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You said you imagined Critch's salary. Then used that as an argument. We don't know what Critch has been offered. He may well be in double what Beale was, based on his experience, what he asked for etc.
 
NewburyOne said:
There would be plenty of interest in him as a head coach, let's not call him a manager as he insisted on being titled head coach at BFC, from Championship clubs, if he decides he wants to stick his toe into that water again. His CV may look like a funny path but his stock will remain high, of that I'm sure.
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Maybe, but his shortish tenure as head coach with us may raise questions of his ability to handle the pressure of this role.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Couple of points occur to me:
  1. Critch may think he's taken us as far as he can, promotion and above expectations finish in the Championship, the next season could be pure downside, he can't exceed expectations, he might fail to meet them and end up sacked, in which case all the reputation he has established so far is wasted;
  2. Critch doesn't have any experience in coaching PL players, it's a big gap on his CV, this move should allow him to plug that gap.
So a backwards move or not, I think it may make sense for his career, and it's quite possible he'll get a shot at the top job at Villa, either way I expect to see him back in management in a couple of years or so.
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Plus, has he now realised that he is not head coach material?
 
voyeur said:
You said you imagined Critch's salary. Then used that as an argument. We don't know what Critch has been offered. He may well be in double what Beale was, based on his experience, what he asked for etc.
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You chose to change the context of my comment and utilise it to poke fun at me. Fair enough if that’s your chosen style of debate.

There’s absolutely no reason at all to suspect that Villa would suddenly double the cost of their assistant salary and I doubt it would be necessary. If they were going to double the potential offering, then why not do that to retain Beale, given he was SG’s preferred man???

So in the absence of wild speculation we have a factual salary for the former man at Villa and a factual average salary for Championship Manager position. I think that tells us everything we need to know about the direction of travel as far as general career progression is concerned.

If you’ve nothing to add beyond ‘imagination’ then let’s leave the discussion there… I’ve put facts on the table so counter with comparable quality of discourse.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
You chose to change the context of my comment and utilise it to poke fun at me. Fair enough if that’s your chosen style of debate.

There’s absolutely no reason at all to suspect that Villa would suddenly double the cost of their assistant salary and I doubt it would be necessary. If they were going to double the potential offering, then why not do that to retain Beale, given he was SG’s preferred man???

So in the absence of wild speculation we have a factual salary for the former man at Villa and a factual average salary for Championship Manager position. I think that tells us everything we need to know about the direction of travel as far as general career progression is concerned.

If you’ve nothing to add beyond ‘imagination’ then let’s leave the discussion there… I’ve put facts on the table so counter with comparable quality of discourse.
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No I didn't poke fun, I just said that's your imagination only which you had said yourself. You're taking it the wrong way.

Life's too short for this too. Pointless and trivial and meaningless and not worth arguing about.
 
voyeur said:
No I didn't poke fun, I just said that's your imagination only which you had said yourself. You're taking it the wrong way.

Life's too short for this too. Pointless and trivial and meaningless and not worth arguing about.
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It’s just a debate discussion and it’s not pointless or trivial at all, it serves a cathartic purpose and helps us to process and rationalise Critchley’s decision to leave and move on from it.

I didn’t say it was my “imagination” at all… I said “I would imagine…”, which is a term of phrase similar to “I would expect”… The inference being that there is some logic and context to the statement that follows. By contrast “Your Imagination” suggests that I’m simply dreaming something up randomly.

You’re not stupid and nor am I, so at the very least don’t insult my intelligence and try to pretend you weren’t just being ‘clever’….

It seems to me that the debate / discussion has run its course.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It’s just a debate discussion and it’s not pointless or trivial at all, it serves a cathartic purpose and helps us to process and rationalise Critchley’s decision to leave and move on from it.

I didn’t say it was my “imagination” at all… I said “I would imagine…”, which is a term of phrase similar to “I would expect”… The inference being that there is some logic and context to the statement that follows. By contrast “Your Imagination” suggests that I’m simply dreaming something up randomly.

You’re not stupid and nor am I, so at the very least don’t insult my intelligence and try to pretend you weren’t just being ‘clever’….

It seems to me that the debate / discussion has run its course.
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I really wasn't being rude. I was simply saying that you can imagine what might have happened but you don't know. Extrapolating is still guesswork.

I've no idea what Critch will earn at Villa. And neither have you.

But yes, I have reached the point where I don't want this debate any more. I feel my comment was misinterpreted and given a slant and used as a stick to beat me with. I don't want to debate in that kind of basis. Cheers.
 
voyeur said:
I really wasn't being rude. I was simply saying that you can imagine what might have happened but you don't know. Extrapolating is still guesswork.

I've no idea what Critch will earn at Villa. And neither have you.

But yes, I have reached the point where I don't want this debate any more. I feel my comment was misinterpreted and given a slant and used as a stick to beat me with. I don't want to debate in that kind of basis. Cheers.
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So now that you've been pulled up for being a clever arse, you've decided to progress into victim mode.... Fair play.. It's like debating with my kids...I presume the next phase is where you run off and don't talk to me for a week 🤣 👍

You're right, neither of us know what Critch will earn at Villa, but in the absence of that information we do have the next bet thing, which is the actual Salary of the former incumbent. In reality and given that Beale was SG's preferred choice over Critch there would be no logical reason to expect that Critchley's salary would be significantly more than his predecessor.

It also gives us a good benchmark as to what sort of wage that particular position commands when assessing it in comparison to that of a Championship Manager.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
So now that you've been pulled up for being a clever arse, you've decided to progress into victim mode.... Fair play.. It's like debating with my kids...I presume the next phase is where you run off and don't talk to me for a week 🤣 👍
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Jesus. Just fuck off. You're the perpetual smart arse around here. As you just proved yet again.
 
You don't get polite debate if you say stuff like you did above. You're such a dick, you really are.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Bit more info on Segantii from the FT a couple of days ago for those who know about these things, I fell asleep halfway through.

Simon Sadler: Blackpool’s block trade king

Segantii Capital boss was a favourite customer for Hong Kong banks but Citi and BofA have halted equity trading
www.ft.com www.ft.com
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Segantii

Financial Times is reporting some problems for Simon Sadler’s finance company Segantii in Hong Kong with some big banks pulling out of some forms of business with them. To be honest I don’t really understand it. Anyone know what’s going on? And should we be in any way…….worried?
avftt.co.uk

Also the one I posted here, with claims the other way saying no issues.
 
voyeur said:
Jesus. Just fuck off. You're the perpetual smart arse around here. As you just proved yet again.
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You've basically isolated yourself in a debate and now you're lashing out at me for pointing out the flaws and limitations in your offering. I'm the one to blame for being a smart arse, rather than you being the one to blame for persisting in digging yourself into a hole.

voyeur said:
You don't get polite debate if you say stuff like you did above. You're such a dick, you really are.
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You really need to put your house in order Voy... There's no need for the way you've behaved here...

All I've done here today is challenge your opinion and offer some facts to support my own....

Go and review the quality and content of your posts on this thread.
 
JJpool said:

Segantii

Financial Times is reporting some problems for Simon Sadler’s finance company Segantii in Hong Kong with some big banks pulling out of some forms of business with them. To be honest I don’t really understand it. Anyone know what’s going on? And should we be in any way…….worried?
avftt.co.uk

Also the one I posted here, with claims the other way saying no issues.
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Who knows? The first article does suggest Sadler isn't someone you fuck with.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
You've basically isolated yourself in a debate and now you're lashing out at me for pointing out the flaws and limitations in your offering. I'm the one to blame for being a smart arse, rather than you being the one to blame for persisting in digging yourself into a hole.


You really need to put your house in order Voy... There's no need for the way you've behaved here...

All I've done here today is challenge your opinion and offer some facts to support my own....

Go and review the quality and content of your posts on this thread.
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Get out. You took the piss. Then I reacted. You seem oblivious to how obnoxious you can be. You sort your house out. You talk down to people like a proper **. You really do.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Who knows? The first article does suggest Sadler isn't someone you fuck with.
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If anything gives us more an insight into the business and to be a priority customer for the entire Street in Asia is no small thing.

All issues if there was any were probably sorted ages ago or maybe even political to be seen to do something?

The counter article could be true or could be to dampen any worries, who knows.

All we know is there's some of the biggest global players involved and it's a key player in that market.
 
Critch did OK but I can't say I'm overly bothered about him moving on.

I would have thought those who were more impressed by Critch and didn't want him to move on, would rather he moved to Villa as assistant than took a mangers job at one of our Championship rivals ?

Clearly Critch believed it was in his best interests to make the move that he has done regardless of what any of us think about it.
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
Im not even sure its to do with lack of funds. Where is the evidence regarding this?

The overriding factor in this is Steven Gerrard. He is a close confident of Critch with higher aspirations than us. Remember it was Gerrard who Critch turned to for advice about accepting the Pool job.

If asked, it was always going to happen, although in this instance sooner than later.
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Got it in one, he’s been enticed by Gerard. He wouldn’t be leaving if the vacancy at Villa hadn’t occurred
 
On the face of it it’s odd and I’ve seen Villa fans saying that too. It shows the gulf between the divisions that he’ll likely have increased his salary for less responsibility day to day.

It may be a masterstroke. Gerrard leaves Villa and he gets the Villa gig full time or he goes to his beloved Liverpool as assistant.

Or he could be looking for a club in six months when we’re flying with a new manager. That’s the nature of it, you’ll never know. Ask Peter Clarke, Simon Grayson, or Shawn Barker.

The disappointment in it all is that it felt like it was long term and he loved the club and the fans. As soon as a Liverpool mate has put in a call he’s off and we haven’t even heard from him.
 
voyeur said:
Interesting that you find this stuff funny. More evidence that you're a bit of an egotistical wanker I think.
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That must be the third time now that you've chosen to use profane and insulting language to me now on this thread.

I find it funny, because during the course of this thread you have sought to set yourself above me and others by continually pointing out that my comments are..

"Just in your mind"

"In your opinion"

"It's not a few quid though is it? It's millions. You paint every sentence to suit your argument."

"Your imagination again"

Now I'd be absolutely cool with you putting down the nature of my argument in that way, if you were offering a counter-debate that included something beyond your own opinion or "painting every sentence to suit your own argument" for example making random claims that "It's not a few quid, though It's millions" without any supporting evidence at all....

So why make those comments ? What value do they add to the debate itself? Essentially they're just veiled put downs
 
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