Rail strikes

Novelli86 said:
The national stats maybe. The numbers up North are clearly different. Trains are as busy as they every were if not busier. Absolutely carnage on many trains.
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According to the data - Northern Rail is currently running at circa 70% passenger levels compared to pre Covid.

Again - don’t let the facts get in the way of your argument.
 
Novelli86 said:
You should have asked them why they wasn't getting you a wage you deserved.

Out of curiosity, what railway job did you apply for and when?
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I can’t remember the exact role, it was on the trains in a customer service role and probably 4/5 years ago. As far as the Union is concerned, they represented around 50,000 people in the company and oversaw many redundancies and reorganisations resulting in some levels of management disappearing altogether.
 
seasideone said:
According to the data - Northern Rail is currently running at circa 70% passenger levels compared to pre Covid.

Again - don’t let the facts get in the way of your argument.
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seasideone said:
According to the data - Northern Rail is currently running at circa 70% passenger levels compared to pre Covid.

Again - don’t let the facts get in the way of your argument.
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Don't believe everything you read.
seasideone said:
They are not.

Why do you ignore facts???

Northern Rail is at circa 70% passenger levels compared to pre covid.
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They are though, there are passenger counters on board the trains. They are counting similar if not more numbers on board trains than pre pandemic on board trains around the North.
 
Novelli86 said:
Don't believe everything you read.

They are though, there are passenger counters on board the trains. They are counting similar if not more numbers on board trains than pre pandemic on board trains around the North.
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The data shows different.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
A fair point about the politics - so will I. However, the language coming out of Downing Street is all about Union Barons (nonsense and very 1970s) and they won't even talk to the unions. Strike action is very much the last straw so it's taken a lot of failure to reach this point. Unfortunately, Network Rail cannot promise the workers anything because they don't control the funding, the Government do - and they won't negotiate. The politics lies with Johnson and his cronies.
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The strong directive Sir Kier has sent to front line MP and PPS shows he is ahead of Downing Street thinking, it is imperative, not only for Labours election prospects but more importantly for the whole countries fragile economic position that we do not see a strike based summer of discontent.
 
Interesting to note the Daily Mail etc long campaign of propaganda has done a cracking job. Northerners hating unions, expressing a lack of support for other workers because they earn 50p an hour more than them (heaven forbid they get a days more holiday) and taking the stance if you don't like it get another job.
Welcome to the selfish society where no one is permitted to do better than me (despite how shit my life is*) and don't care about anyone but me.
*see brexit
Fast forward 20 years where health care is rationed, this forum will have people who will not think of the chronic underfunding of the health service and how govts (tories) have run it down but happily turn on fellow citizens "fuck em they've only got dementia I've got cancer"
 
Novelli86 said:
Don't believe everything you read.

They are though, there are passenger counters on board the trains. They are counting similar if not more numbers on board trains than pre pandemic on board trains around the North.
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Is that because less trains are operating ?
 
Shandypants said:
Interesting to note the Daily Mail etc long campaign of propaganda has done a cracking job. Northerners hating unions, expressing a lack of support for other workers because they earn 50p an hour more than them (heaven forbid they get a days more holiday) and taking the stance if you don't like it get another job.
Welcome to the selfish society where no one is permitted to do better than me (despite how shit my life is*) and don't care about anyone but me.
*see brexit
Fast forward 20 years where health care is rationed, this forum will have people who will not think of the chronic underfunding of the health service and how govts (tories) have run it down but happily turn on fellow citizens "fuck em they've only got dementia I've got cancer"
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Some people on here are showing Crab Mentality.
 
Wizaard said:
A little more detail for you.

Virgin trains are now owned by Trenitalia.

German state railway Deutsche Bahn operates four British railways including the London overground and the Grand Central line to Sunderland.

Seven UK railways are operated or partly-operated by Dutch state railway Nederlandse Spoorwegen (NS), including Merseyrail, Scotrail and the West Midlands Railway.

Seven railways are operated fully or partly by French state railway SNCF, including Transport for Wales and the Thameslink.

Just wondering when they are handing over money to nurses?

Can anyone who doesn't want the workers to defend their right to use withdrawal of labour as a last resort explain their position without quoting the Government spin.
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ScotRail has been nationalised and is now run by a company operated by ScotGov.
 
poolseasider said:
The point still stands we all need a pay rise my wife got a poxy 1p a hour rise in April working at the Vic so forgive me for not giving a toss about Rail staff.
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Which is exactly why we all won't get the pay rises we require.

The lack of worker solidarity in the modern West is utterly disgusting. 'Fuck them, what about me' is the prevailing attitude.

Rail workers, like everyone else, deserve to have a pay rise that is commensurate with inflation.

No-one in work should see their pay effectively being cut every year. Workers shouldn't have to reduce their quality of life year on year to satisfy corporate greed.
 
GeminiPool said:
Which is exactly why we all won't get the pay rises we require.

The lack of worker solidarity in the modern West is utterly disgusting. 'Fuck them, what about me' is the prevailing attitude.

Rail workers, like everyone else, deserve to have a pay rise that is commensurate with inflation.

No-one in work should see their pay effectively being cut every year. Workers shouldn't have to reduce their quality of life year on year to satisfy corporate greed.
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It's a race to the bottom. Classic divide and conquer.
 
GeminiPool said:
Which is exactly why we all won't get the pay rises we require.
The lack of worker solidarity in the modern West is utterly disgusting. 'Fuck them, what about me' is the prevailing attitude.
Rail workers, like everyone else, deserve to have a pay rise that is commensurate with inflation.

No-one in work should see their pay effectively being cut every year. Workers shouldn't have to reduce their quality of life year on year to satisfy corporate greed.
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That's fine, so long as they are prepared to take a wage cut when inflation goes down.
 
Sooty59 said:
If other people were as organised as the rail workers, perhaps they’d reap the benefits too.
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They tried that in the 70's, the businesses went bust and the jobs went overseas. For most employees, if they tried the same today a similar thing would happen, the jobs would either all be moved offshore, or they'd be replaced by tech.

The only reason the rail workers are able to get away with it is because it's a quasi-public-sector monopoly that requires physical presence of the workers in the UK, and so far no government has been willing to tackle the challenge of automation.
 
tommytwojags said:
That's fine, so long as they are prepared to take a wage cut when inflation goes down.
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Have we ever had a sustained deflationary period in recent history?

In reality, even if they get the 8% to match inflation (yeah right, in reality it is more likely 15-20% right now) we aren't talking about the same rise year-on-year in perpetuity. If inflation comes back down to reasonable levels (not happening for at least the next five years) then future pay negotiations will be naturally closer in line with that.
 
We have gas/energy price inflation just like the OPEC oil price hikes of 1973, that is dominating the 11% inflation prediction. That is feeding into inflation for food, transport etc. No wonder public workers with effective economic power are using union organisation to try and keep their wages and standard of living matching inflation.

In addition, we have a stagnant low growth economy, primarily due to 10+ years of austerity but now compounded by the restrictions of Brexit, losing the single market, with a lack of immigrant EU workers now and a possible trade war with the EU. This means the UK is now the last option for any international business looking to invest.

Well done, Bozo. With your corrupt ambition to become PM through Brexit, lack of morals and integrity with no plausible policies, now allied with outside circumstances such as Ukraine, you have engineered the perfect shit storm, which will take years to recover from. We are now again the “sick man of Europe”.
 
The unions are negotiating with the private companies that run the railways, it has shag all to do with the government what a private company offers workers. Being dragged into this by Labour and their funding buddies to bring them down.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
es, let's blame those wanting a pay rise less than inflation, ie a pay cut, rather than targeting our ire at those who have had huge rises in pay and capital, the billionaires, the bankers, the MPs. Classic right wing misdirection. Tell me how much extra the Oil companies have made this year, for no effort. It should not be rail workers versus bank workers versus nurses, it should be the low paid against the super paid.
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Agree 100%. The disparity in the wealth is massive and increasing between the rich and the rest every single year. Any rises in wages for many are well below inflation so life becomes so much harder and such things as food banks a reality for many more. yet the politicians give themselves pay rises well above inflation and our super rich get richer. Not at all surprised to see this unrest and if the wealth is not shared more equally then i believe we have seen nothing yet.
 
seasideone said:
Average salaries….

£58k Train Driver
£41k Average person on the railways
£31k Nurse

Automate the railways, sack as many as you can and use the money saved to pay nurses more 👍
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What happens when the robotics engineers and computer programmers go on strike???

We need machines that can build machines!

Damn the working man with his selfish need to eat and that.
 
td53 said:
I think one point that is fairly obvious is that if wages are rising lower than prices then somewhere, someone is making a fuck load of money as a result of that and it's absolutely not the workers.
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That'll be everyone's furlough, industries being bailed out left, right and centre and yes, money spunked on PPE/other questionable newly set-up "healthcare" companies. The government has spent beyond its means and it is time to pay the piper.
 
td53 said:
I think one point that is fairly obvious is that if wages are rising lower than prices then somewhere, someone is making a fuck load of money as a result of that and it's absolutely not the workers.
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Wages ALWAYS rise less than prices.
 
seasideone said:
Average salaries….

£58k Train Driver
£41k Average person on the railways
£31k Nurse

Automate the railways, sack as many as you can and use the money saved to pay nurses more 👍
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Why would the shareholders of the rail companies want the money saved to go on nurses wages?
 
Markobfc said:
The unions are negotiating with the private companies that run the railways, it has shag all to do with the government what a private company offers workers. Being dragged into this by Labour and their funding buddies to bring them down.
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Except that it is the Government that holds the purse strings, not the railway management.
 
My mate is a train driver so I've just asked him if he's on strike. Drivers are members of ASLEF so they are not on strike, it's the guards/cleaners etc that on strike.
 
Curryman said:
Going back to those who will be affected, it was noticeable that the London Underground was mentioned as being on strike tomorrow, but no mention was or has been made of the bus drivers on strike in vast parts of Yorkshire. Their dispute has been going on for a number of weeks and the strike is continuing indefinitely.

Some of these people want to try and exist on a pension.
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Nearly a fortnight in and no sign of an end to the bus strike covering big areas of Yorkshire which don't have rail access. No mention on the news.
 
Novelli86 said:
The trains are rammed across the whole of the North not just in Blackpool 👍
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No, the trains are way underfunded compared to the South, with far less rolling stock, two coach trains being commonplace. That makes them look full, but they don't compare to the 10 and 12 coach trains down South.

Public transport subsidy down South is £1500 per head. Yorkshire and Humber £450. Levelling up my arse.
 
Wizaard said:
No, the trains are way underfunded compared to the South, with far less rolling stock, two coach trains being commonplace. That makes them look full, but they don't compare to the 10 and 12 coach trains down South.

Public transport subsidy down South is £1500 per head. Yorkshire and Humber £450. Levelling up my arse.
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My arse isn’t level either
 
seasideone said:
You could do it through the cost the government charge the train operators, the tax system or simply an extra charge that they pay if it’s an automated line.

Just to add it’s a bit of a silly question anyway as all nurses and the public sector is paid from the tax on the private sector and people anyway.

So doing it is nothing new.
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I hadn't realised that the public sector are exempt from paying tax on their earnings. Must contact HMRC and get 40 years worth of refund.
 
Kier Starmer has warned his MP's and front bench in particular not to join picket lines.

However, Potty Mouth's excuse is that it was a march not a picket line. Others didn't bother listening either.

Oh dear, Kier it seems your deputy didn't get the message. she 's right at the front of the march.

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Shandypants said:
My mate is a train driver so I've just asked him if he's on strike. Drivers are members of ASLEF so they are not on strike, it's the guards/cleaners etc that on strike.
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And my mate also a train driver said they had no intention of striking because whatever pay increase if any they'll get it added to their salaries.
 
Markobfc said:
The unions are negotiating with the private companies that run the railways, it has shag all to do with the government what a private company offers workers. Being dragged into this by Labour and their funding buddies to bring them down.
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Unless of course, those 'private' companies are funded by the Government and instructed by the Governmemt not to give in to union demands. Can I suggest that you take a step back from Union bashing and look at the reality of this situation. There are no 'Union barons,' this is not the 1970s regardless of the picture that Johnson and Shapps are trying to paint.
 
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