Scottish Independence

it appears to me that this is the only thing that Sturgeon is interested in.
Power Mad.
I bet she loses this one too.
 
Davepick said:
it appears to me that this is the only thing that Sturgeon is interested in.
Power Mad.
I bet she loses this one too.
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Be interesting if she does.

FPTP helps in Westminster elections, but the Scottish ones are PR but still get into government pretty easily and they use this as a proxy for Independence; if the people reject it again; it leaves them with one thing to do - govern Scotland - which may be a good thing for the people of Scotland.
 
TSSeasider said:
Be interesting if she does.

FPTP helps in Westminster elections, but the Scottish ones are PR but still get into government pretty easily and they use this as a proxy for Independence; if the people reject it again; it leaves them with one thing to do - govern Scotland - which may be a good thing for the people of Scotland.
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This is the biggest issue for anti SNP voters. They have been in power for ever, and so many indicators continue to decline, highest deaths from drugs and alcohol in Europe, education ( used to be world famous) going down the toilet, rural populations declining, a total fxck up on the ferries ordered to keep transport to the Isles going, I can go on and on. They need to focus on their jobs and responsibilities, and stop blaming whichever government is in power in Westminster for their incompetence.
 
Chunkylad said:
Isnā€™t Scotland struggling much more than England economically?
I am sure there is more tax payers money per capita funnelled there from the English economy to ensure the Union stays in tact?

Iā€™m not sure even after Brexit that Scotland still wants independence?
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The public funding that goes from the Treasury to the other home nations is based on what is called the Barnett formula. Back in my day that was around 2% of GDP. The reason that the home nations (well, Scotland principally), struggle more than England is because they are not allowed to borrow on the open market.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
The public funding that goes from the Treasury to the other home nations is based on what is called the Barnett formula. Back in my day that was around 2% of GDP. The reason that the home nations (well, Scotland principally), struggle more than England is because they are not allowed to borrow on the open market.
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Thanks 66 very informative šŸ‘
 
Tangerinemoss said:
This is the biggest issue for anti SNP voters. They have been in power for ever, and so many indicators continue to decline, highest deaths from drugs and alcohol in Europe, education ( used to be world famous) going down the toilet, rural populations declining, a total fxck up on the ferries ordered to keep transport to the Isles going, I can go on and on. They need to focus on their jobs and responsibilities, and stop blaming whichever government is in power in Westminster for their incompetence.
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That's what happens when the First Minister has only one objective. She has pretty much ignored the issues mentioned in pursuit of becoming the President of Scotland. Figures last year showed that without Westminster funding every adult and child would have to pay an extra Ā£2k pa just to maintain their current position. Add to that the infrastructure costs necessary for independence, the absence of a currency, the customs border needed, armed forces etc etc and they will have a massive mountain to climb to survive. Do I want Scots to fall for Sturgeon's independence scam? Not at all. The trouble is if they do tick the box there's no going back.
 
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If the court says no, then sheā€™s going to go into the election in 2024 with one manifesto policy, independence. The Scotā€™s must be insane if they vote for a party that doesnā€™t tell them what they intend to do about the economy, education, health etc. Then again, theyā€™re not going to vote for Labour, the tories, or any other party
 
I think self determination is a universal right (Falklands, Gibraltar, NI etc) so I'd include Scotland in it.

I'd actually given them a legally binding referendum, and say to those living in Scotland you choose.

There can't be anyone who doesn't understand the consequences of leaving the UK (Christ we've heard enough about the UK leaving the EU) and it would probably be so much worse than the NI issue (without the threat of civil war).

IF they choose to go, then good luck; go forge your own path and we will wish you well.

If they want to stay, brilliant, but please put the issue away for 25 years.
 
My 2p, as a precondition, before any request for a referendum can be considered, the first minister must first make a written request that the Barnet formula be ended and that funding for the Scottish executive should instead be based on taxation raised in Scotland, net of central government expenditure in non-devolved areas, and that a minimum of five years be allowed to pass before any referendum can take place.

It would be their approximate fiscal position in the event of independence, if they can't make it work before independence, why do they think they can make it work after?
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
You won't win Scara. He's obsessed with Brexit. If Blackpool got relegated next season he'd blame it on Brexit.
We've had to endure 6 years of moaning and whining and there doesn't seem to be any end to it either. šŸ˜«
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How many years of moaning and whining did we have to put up with before you got your Brexit vote?
Does it all have to stop when you get what you want?
 
gjr69 said:
How many years of moaning and whining did we have to put up with before you got your Brexit vote?
Does it all have to stop when you get what you want?
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I never asked for a Brexit vote. So you're totally wrong there. Get trolling through every single one of my previous posts if you're that sad and you want to try and prove yourself right.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
I never asked for a Brexit vote. So you're totally wrong there. Get trolling through every single one of my previous posts if you're that sad and you want to try and prove yourself right.
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Not bothered about you, I was referring to UKIP and those that always blamed Europe for the UKs problems, you are one person with one vote, no big deal just like the rest of us. I'll moan and whine about Brexit for as long as I like, people who wanted Brexit often seem to enjoy it so i wouldn't want to take away one of your pleasures in life.
 
Lost Seasider said:
My 2p, as a precondition, before any request for a referendum can be considered, the first minister must first make a written request that the Barnet formula be ended and that funding for the Scottish executive should instead be based on taxation raised in Scotland, net of central government expenditure in non-devolved areas, and that a minimum of five years be allowed to pass before any referendum can take place.

It would be their approximate fiscal position in the event of independence, if they can't make it work before independence, why do they think they can make it work after?
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That sounds persuasive but a truly independent Scotland (and I don't want it), would be able to trade debt on the open market. As things stand, that's not allowed. Hence, Barnett.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
You won't win Scara. He's obsessed with Brexit. If Blackpool got relegated next season he'd blame it on Brexit.
We've had to endure 6 years of moaning and whining and there doesn't seem to be any end to it either. šŸ˜«
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Still, we've had all those great benefits, a strong economy, stable cost of living, affordable utilities, brilliant social care, not forgetting the levelling up which has been just remarkable.

Thank god those billions we spent on it weren't needed anywhere else šŸ‘
 
You said before YOU got your Brexit vote.
Replying to a post by me so quite obviously referring to me
Anyway you were wrong so weā€™ll leave it at that.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Still, we've had all those great benefits, a strong economy, stable cost of living, affordable utilities, brilliant social care, not forgetting the levelling up which has been just remarkable.

Thank god those billions we spent on it weren't needed anywhere else šŸ‘
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The lowest form of wit šŸ‘
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
In your opinion. Most of your sarcastic points could be aimed at many countries
Thereā€™s a bit of a global problem going on at present if you hadn't noticed
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So the billions thrown at Brexit wouldn't have helped? Anyway, I thought isolationism was supposed to shield us from global variance to some extent?
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
So the billions thrown at Brexit wouldn't have helped? Anyway, I thought isolationism was supposed to shield us from global variance to some extent?
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Of course it might have helped but then again it might not
For example we may have wasted billions more on the vaccine roll out if weā€™d stayed in the EU and been part of that cluster fuck
I donā€™t think any country can be isolated from global variance such is the global world we live in these days
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
Of course it might have helped but then again it might not
For example we may have wasted billions more on the vaccine roll out if weā€™d stayed in the EU and been part of that cluster fuck
I donā€™t think any country can be isolated from global variance such is the global world we live in these days
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But Brexit had nothing to do with the vaccine rollout, we still could have independently controlled ours, this has been explained many, many times.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
But Brexit had nothing to do with the vaccine rollout, we still could have independently controlled ours, this has been explained many, many times.
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But that wasnā€™t what happened. EU countries were prevented from going their own way on the vaccines. It was a total cock up. Delays and lies about the effectiveness of certain vaccines. I remember it well even if you dont
Anyway, weā€™re never going to agree on Brexit, that much is obvious
Iā€™d vote leave again with just as much conviction if there were another referendum just like youā€™d vote remain
Good to debate with you
 
Wizaard said:
The revisit of the independence vote has been prompted by the Brexit outcome.

As for Northern Ireland, they've become a separate trading area with a border in the Irish Sea and we're about to unilaterally ignore international law. Keep up.
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Sorry Wiz, but nothing to do with Brexit. It is purely driven by that wannabe despot Nicola Sturgeon (aka Kranky)
She is like a petulant child who didnā€™t get her own way on the first referendum.
If the second vote goes against her (which, if it happens, will go against her), what then? She wants a third vote?
Alternatively, if the unexpected happened and the vote was for independence and people challenged it she would fight tooth and nail to stay independent.

Could they afford to be independent? Would the exporting of Haggis and Whiskey be enough to live on?
Could they afford to join the EU? Would she join NATO just in case Putin fancied taking over the highlands. Imagine that happening, she would soon be running with cap in hand to England for support šŸ˜‚

It just wonā€™t happen.

Wizaard said:
The revisit of the independence vote has been prompted by the Brexit outcome.

As for Northern Ireland, they've become a separate trading area with a border in the Irish Sea and we're about to unilaterally ignore international law. Keep up.
Click to expand...
 
Eternaloptimist said:
Sorry Wiz, but nothing to do with Brexit. It is purely driven by that wannabe despot Nicola Sturgeon (aka Kranky)
She is like a petulant child who didnā€™t get her own way on the first referendum.
If the second vote goes against her (which, if it happens, will go against her), what then? She wants a third vote?
Alternatively, if the unexpected happened and the vote was for independence and people challenged it she would fight tooth and nail to stay independent.

Could they afford to be independent? Would the exporting of Haggis and Whiskey be enough to live on?
Could they afford to join the EU? Would she join NATO just in case Putin fancied taking over the highlands. Imagine that happening, she would soon be running with cap in hand to England for support šŸ˜‚

It just wonā€™t happen.
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She is like a petulant child who didnā€™t get her own way on the first referendum

You mean like most remainers on here ?
 
Wilburrabbit said:
If you have been up to Scotland any time recently itā€™s almost relentless so yes.
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Iā€™ve spent plenty of time in Scotland recently and I havenā€™t noticed the ā€˜almost relentless ā€¦ largely racist campaignā€™ of which you speak

I donā€™t suppose you have anything to back your statement up ? šŸ¤”
 
Recidivist3 said:
Iā€™ve spent plenty of time in Scotland recently and I havenā€™t noticed the ā€˜almost relentless ā€¦ largely racist campaignā€™ of which you speak

I donā€™t suppose you have anything to back your statement up ? šŸ¤”
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I can speak from personal experience which is probably all I need but I have family in the highlands and any visit to Glasgow or watching the Scottish Parliament for anyone English confirms it. If most of the statements made by Sturgeon substituted any race or minority for the word English she would be prosecuted.
 
According to the Scotsman newspaper, the majority do not want independence, and her ploy of setting a date for the next proposed vote is to hide her incompetence in keeping the Scots services going.
 
Recidivist3 said:
Iā€™ve spent plenty of time in Scotland recently and I havenā€™t noticed the ā€˜almost relentless ā€¦ largely racist campaignā€™ of which you speak

I donā€™t suppose you have anything to back your statement up ? šŸ¤”
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It seems Nationalism is ok as long as it suits your narrative.
 
Wilburrabbit said:
I can speak from personal experience which is probably all I need but I have family in the highlands and any visit to Glasgow or watching the Scottish Parliament for anyone English confirms it. If most of the statements made by Sturgeon substituted any race or minority for the word English she would be prosecuted.
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If your last sentence is true then why isnā€™t she being prosecuted šŸ¤”

Iā€™ve just read the following article. Would it be fair to suggest that it represents your views almost entirely ?

unherd.com

The racism lurking behind Scottish nationalism

Why is the bigotry of many SNP supporters so readily tolerated?
unherd.com unherd.com
 
Recidivist3 said:
If your last sentence is true then why isnā€™t she being prosecuted šŸ¤”

Iā€™ve just read the following article. Would it be fair to suggest that it represents your views almost entirely ?

unherd.com

The racism lurking behind Scottish nationalism

Why is the bigotry of many SNP supporters so readily tolerated?
unherd.com unherd.com
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Interesting article. Whilst I cannot say whether or not racism in all its forms is rife it certainly sets out with some clarity the undercurrent of anti English rhetoric and the closing down of opposing voices in something I have witnessed more than once.
 
I remember Andrew Neil interviewed first minister Sturgeon and put it to her that if Scotland went independent there would be a massive hole in the country's finances and how would she cover that and she had no answer!! It's such a mad idea and a waste of time as the EU would not accept a new country who could not prove it could manage money wise.
 
Recidivist3 said:
If your last sentence is true then why isnā€™t she being prosecuted šŸ¤”

Iā€™ve just read the following article. Would it be fair to suggest that it represents your views almost entirely ?

unherd.com

The racism lurking behind Scottish nationalism

Why is the bigotry of many SNP supporters so readily tolerated?
unherd.com unherd.com
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Question should be... is the article closer to the truth then some will admit?
 
Wilburrabbit said:
If you have been up to Scotland any time recently itā€™s almost relentless so yes.
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I live in Scotland, and no its not. Even the SNP folk I know are always polite and friendly.

Brexit has caused this retrial, whatever you believe. The only way for Scotland to stay in the EU was to vote NO. We did, and then the UK voted to leave. I dislike the SNP politically, and Sturgeon personally, but there is indeed a justification for revisiting the question, as the goalposts have moved.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
I live in Scotland, and no its not. Even the SNP folk I know are always polite and friendly.

Brexit has caused this retrial, whatever you believe. The only way for Scotland to stay in the EU was to vote NO. We did, and then the UK voted to leave. I dislike the SNP politically, and Sturgeon personally, but there is indeed a justification for revisiting the question, as the goalposts have moved.
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When you say ā€œvote Noā€ are you referring to the 2014 vote ...if so why would Scotland not either stay or reapply to the EU back then? Sorry for being thick, not really up on this just curious.
 
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