seasideone
Well-known member
In fairness I am not arguing that and the caveat I put in - was how many times have we filled the home end?
I am genuinely curious.
East stand
- Thread starter Northstandsinger
- Start date
I am genuinely curious.
seasideone
Well-known member
I am not 100% sure here - but I think it’s zero towards the stand itself, as that’s down to BFC or rather Simon.
I think the money is for the central drive development including the community pitches etc.
The council are buying the houses for the above reason and not BFC, I think the stand is being built 100% on BFC land already.
BUT I might be wrong!
Wizaard
Well-known member
I think the footprint of the stand goes much further back than the existing one, so surely it has to encroach onto what is currently one side of Henry St.
seasideone
Well-known member
I am not 100% sure to be fair.
If we have a circa 5k stand there now and we are building something smaller - why wouldn’t definitely have a bigger foot print?
Would be interesting to know
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
It all depends what you define as the ‘Home End’
We’ve regularly filled the 3 (non-temporary) stands in the Championship.
We’ve occasionally filled the 3 (non temporary) stands plus half the East in the Championship under the Oystons and we filkex them every week in the Premier League (having knocked back 2-3000 additional Season Ticket holders that year, due to insufficient capacity)
You also have to bear in mind that the current ‘East Stand’ facilities are absolutely crap. It might be ok for away fans on a one off basis, but the home facilities in there are appalling. People aren’t going to pay for that shyte
AllTheBoysAreCheerin'
Well-known member
The council will issue CPOs for any remaining properties that the football club have been unable to secure an amicable deal to purchase, themselves. The club will be paying for them, the land will become the property of BFC. A conference centre/sports arena was on the original Revoe Masterplan which goes right up to Central Drive so I assume the purchase will eventually be for all the properties but for now may just be for some of them until further development is on the cards.
seasideone
Well-known member
fair points - still interested in our larger home attendances though and how often.
seasideone
Well-known member
Not sure what that proves - as it states this document is outside what the football club are going to do.
Also, it’s the council who have been buying house around there not the club.
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
Still interested in what respect?
What do you need to know and how do you believe it’s relevant?
Festerlegs
Well-known member
The problem with the East Stand is likely to be exactly the same problem faced by every other major project in this country. Whether it's Blackpool FC's new stand funded by SS, or HS2 funded by the UK Government, everything takes a ridiculous length of time to get up and running thanks to the necessary design consultations, legalities, planning procedures, Inquiries and the commissioning and the set up time for a contractor. This country is incapable of doing anything quickly. By the time all these hurdles have been overcome the cost of every project has increased to the point where cutbacks are needed, or worse. SS will have his budget for the project, hopefully with an inflation factor built in. But excessive delays will invariably affect what is affordable sooner or later.
Morty
Well-known member
Sorry but I have to disagree with the opening post. We don't need a ground larger than 17000. Our attendances show this. Even in our glory years of the 1950s we weren't that well supported. The year we won the cup our average was 25,800. That was when football had a virtual monopoly, no TV games and we had a team packed with internationals and a Ballon D'or winner!! Our attendances over the last 60 years have been nothing special - in only one out of the last 60 seasons have we averaged over 20,000 - 1971. We don't need a stadium the size of Preston's or Wigan's as we wouldn't fill it - neither do they by the way and as a result the atmosphere at their grounds is rubbish. It's not a lack of ambition it's being realistic.
If you built something similar to the west (with a media / hospitality function) and north-west corner, you would have over 5000 seats and better facilities / retail outlets to earn income. The capacity would be over 16.5k. Demolishing the properties on the west side of Henry Street would allow that. To do anything bigger would either require more land or a two tier stand.
If we achieve the 16.5k above it would be realistic for the land footprint and turnover we have got. And it would be an excellent atmosphere if anything like full
If we achieve the 16.5k above it would be realistic for the land footprint and turnover we have got. And it would be an excellent atmosphere if anything like full
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Wizaard
Well-known member
Because the temp stand has nothing under it. There will be a concourse and facilities rather than having to traipse to the end of the stand to a portacabinI am not 100% sure to be fair.
If we have a circa 5k stand there now and we are building something smaller - why wouldn’t definitely have a bigger foot print?
Would be interesting to know
seasideone
Well-known member
Because build and they will come does not always work.
Where In the real balance between capacity and crowds?
AllTheBoysAreCheerin'
Well-known member
It says the Football Clubs development is outside the scope of the document, not the other way round. It means the club are responsible for their own development within the overall masterplan.
What it proves is that the land right up to Central Drive is earmarked for development by the football club.
It may well be the council brokering the purchase of the properties in the area but it will be Blackpool FC paying for it and ultimately owning and developing it.
Hope that explains it.
seasideone
Well-known member
I am not convinced you are correct - sorry.It says the Football Clubs development is outside the scope of the document, not the other way round. It means the club are responsible for their own development within the overall masterplan.
What it proves is that the land right up to Central Drive is earmarked for development by the football club.
It may well be the council brokering the purchase of the properties in the area but it will be Blackpool FC paying for it and ultimately owning and developing it.
Hope that explains it.
Hope you are though
Garbage
The bottom line in my opinion is it's all irrelevant. Sadler hasn't got the money, otherwise we'd be on with both the training ground and the east.
Lets face it, he got the club relatively cheap from the administrator, but has clearly underestimated the bigger picture in terms of finance needed to progress this great club.
Lets face it, he got the club relatively cheap from the administrator, but has clearly underestimated the bigger picture in terms of finance needed to progress this great club.
I don't think it is correct either. The council's plan seems to suggest the rest of the land up to Central Drive will be a future phase as an indoor sports facility for the community, not something related to the football club. I think the club are only responsible for a new east standI am not convinced you are correct - sorry.
Hope you are though
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
I’m not sure what your question means ?
Of course build it and they will come doesn’t always work. You’ve got to temper enthusiasm with a sense of perspective.
So to that extent, you need to reflect on the catchment area and what other clubs have managed to achieve.
You also have to be realistic about the fact that filling a stadium regularly beyond around 80% capacity in (unless you are playing in the EPL) simply isn’t going to happen.
If for example we were to reduce our capacity to 10,000 then in the short term that would result in us selling out every week (in the Championship)… However the long term effect would be that crowds would drop off to 8,000 or thereabouts.
The reason for that is because a typical 8000 crowd is not made up of the same 8000 people each game. In fact you need to be pulling from a pool of 10,000 ‘regular’ attendees in order to sustain a crowd of 8000 as an average.
Over time what ends up happening (if you end up too close to capacity) is that fans maybe can’t get tickets for games they want to attend, other new fans don’t bother, because of limited availability and over time your attendance degrades back to equilibrium…
Conversely if you increase capacity (and of course achieve the success on the pitch to attract new fans) as well as showing genuine ambition then over time your attendance will increase (up to the maximum point that’s sustainable within your catchment).
The issue we have is that many fans have been battered into submission and can’t get past their little Blackpool mindset. Holloway was the only person I’ve seen at our Club who came in and ripped up the rule-book.. He wasn’t prepared to be constrained by that kind of mentality….
seasideone
Well-known member
AllTheBoysAreCheerin'
Well-known member
I guess this at least answers the OP.
www.lancs.live
Blackpool FC stadium gets green light for multi-million pound development
Investment includes £6.5m from Blackpool’s Town Deal, with Blackpool FC owner Simon Sadler also expected to plough money into a new 4,600 seat stand
www.lancs.live
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
So what do you mean?
The three existing stands ?
AllTheBoysAreCheerin'
Well-known member
Possibly true, I'm sure the club were initially hoping to develope the land themselves but plans change as circumstances dictate, I guess. It's also posible that I dreamt it!
Either way, at least some of the land is being purchased by/for the club for the new stand development.
JOHNMAJORTOM
Well-known member
get me there now. I will be forming the St Annes AI Crew.
JOHNMAJORTOM
Well-known member
I just want to see diggers going in ASAP. Man U will be quicker than us with the Wembley of the North.
seasideone
Well-known member
Leave you to it
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
Leave me to what…?Leave you to it
It’s a simple enough question…isn’t it ?
I’m trying to answer your question…
Do you mean the three existing stands (North, West & South) Or do you mean those areas plus half of the East Stand, which has been opened for specific games to accommodate home fans ?
Sven
Well-known member
Is it not twice?
Once vs Preston in the Championship and Southend homecoming. They are the only games I can remember being officially sold out.
JJpool
Well-known member
I think people were accepting of the 4600 east, as it slightly raises capacity and unlocks the usable capacity. However its unclear whether that figure was accurate or how they got there. Was it just an east or east and corner. There is no corner on a wider area map, but that's no the final stand plans.
Losing capacity wouldn't be a good look, but it just a rumour.
I'd like to see an east and ne corner. The corner the same height as the north so 24 rows adding approx 900, as you probably have to have a big walkway to move pitch equipment in and out. An east also at that same row height would be about the 4600.
So altogether 17.5k. Should see us right for a fair bit and if needed you can juggle more away fans or more home fans if demand is there. I'd love to see something really ambitious if SS wanted to do it, great, however I can see why it's probably not feasible.
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
We’ve certainly ‘all but’ sold out for other games and of course, we have limited availability or Sold Out the Away End regularly.
Arguably though we didn’t really ‘Sell Out’ either Preston Game, because more space could have been made available to home fans….
Sven
Well-known member
I just answered the question with a factual answer as you seemed to be struggling
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
I wasn’t struggling. Its not a straightforward answer…I just answered the question with a factual answer as you seemed to be struggling
Firstly the Southend Game we didn’t just “Sell Out” the Home End, we also sold out a big part of the Away End too.
Preston - We sold out the regular Home Ends, but then one occasion we also Sold Out the extra Home Capacity made available in the East (although arguably more might have been made available had demand been there)… The second Preston Game we didn’t sell out the extra capacity made available.
(Of course, arguably 3-5000 extra Preston Fans would have also turned up for that game.
Blackburn was practically Sold Out. (Existing Home Ends) barring the odd single seat…
JJpool
Well-known member
There's no prefect solution, if we gave up the north we're losing something special imo, the biggest end. The south less so but in each you're then giving away fans behind a goal whereas now we're behind both, so maybe some advantage there for us and not sure I'd want to lose that.
For fans exiting, no matter which way you do it there's always fans wanting to go another way, as it's not just a football occasion for many who then go on buses or cars and leave. If they did it would be easier.
People come to Blackpool then go back to the big car parks, or head to the front, or into town, so most directions. So it doesn't matter where they are they'll always be mixing with home fans in some ways.
The best thing the police could do would be to police the areas properly. I think the north or south east will be fine for away fans and once complete, it'll be better to exit onto a proper area, like outside the west.
JJpool
Well-known member
Not only are you giving away our biggest and most loved stand, but away fans still must pass home fans by the west when coming from the carparks. The east should be easier to Police once the area is much wider and coaches can go there or central drive.
No one on this thread has considered the commercial viability of this stand.
Let's for arguments sake say a 5000 seat stand costs £12.5m
Let's say the club had to borrow that money to build the stand. Football is known as a shitty business and I would imagine that the club would be lucky if it could borrow £12.5m at 10-12%.
That's £1.25m - £1.5m of profit needed per year just to pay the interest on that debt. That's about £60,000 per game profit needed feom the new stand to cover the debt or £12/seat and this assumes that every seat in the new stand is sold for every match. No chance at all that this is commercially viable.
Basically, us good people of Blackpool are asking the man who funds the club to build us a big shiny stand on which he has no chance of getting his money back and which will only occasionally be filled. This stand only begins to make sense if someone gifts the money to build it given that anyone who does the math above would just refuse to lend against it.
If I was Sadler reading this today I'd rid myself of this club at the earliest opportunity because if he doesn't build this stand to the expectations of many on here we'll be whining like bitches and telling him that he has no ambition.
Let's for arguments sake say a 5000 seat stand costs £12.5m
Let's say the club had to borrow that money to build the stand. Football is known as a shitty business and I would imagine that the club would be lucky if it could borrow £12.5m at 10-12%.
That's £1.25m - £1.5m of profit needed per year just to pay the interest on that debt. That's about £60,000 per game profit needed feom the new stand to cover the debt or £12/seat and this assumes that every seat in the new stand is sold for every match. No chance at all that this is commercially viable.
Basically, us good people of Blackpool are asking the man who funds the club to build us a big shiny stand on which he has no chance of getting his money back and which will only occasionally be filled. This stand only begins to make sense if someone gifts the money to build it given that anyone who does the math above would just refuse to lend against it.
If I was Sadler reading this today I'd rid myself of this club at the earliest opportunity because if he doesn't build this stand to the expectations of many on here we'll be whining like bitches and telling him that he has no ambition.
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poolseasider
Well-known member
Much loved stand maybe for atmosphere but it's out of date.
Cramped concourse,pushing and shoving to go to the tiny toilets,no chance of change of catering options etc.
In ten years time it will still be even more outdated meanwhile the new shiny stand(should) be built with whoever using it getting better facilities than us in the North.
Growing up it was all about the South but that's been badly built for noise why not build the East for home get the acoustics right,safe standing,decent food,quick pouring beer etc and make it the go to stand.
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
If ‘Commercial Viability’ is what you’re after, then football is the wrong business to be in full stop.
As fans you have to hope that SS hasn’t just bought the Club on a whim and had though long and hard about what owning this football Club might really mean over the longer term.
He doesn’t strike me as someone who would have walked into such a big commitment with his eyes closed.
Nobody on here is whining like bitches… However people will be justifiably pissed off if we end up wasting this opportunity to develop the stadium properly, due to a penny pinching approach.
Its better to just leave it altogether and leave the next owner a blank canvas than to do half a job that we end up stuck with.
Well, I guess that's the gameshow approach - don't take the 3600 seat stand on offer and gamble for the owner with more ambition who will build 6000 seats.
How many times do we see the greedy go home empty-handed?
Your commercial model does not allow for a stand with other commercial opportunities, such as hospitality and retail units income. I would have thought SS will be looking at those as well.
AllTheBoysAreCheerin'
Well-known member
Not very often these days!
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
That’s Football… There’s no point in accepting mediocrity. It defeats the object… Better to die standing up than live on your knees etc…
JJpool
Well-known member
I agree with much of that, however I don't think we'll lose existing fans, as you don't give up on your team because of a stand. I think you are also slightly underestimating the more professional feel of a completed stadium. Whenever you see the N, W&S from the E it looks miles better, so seeing that all around will finally give that proper stadium feel, not looking at a shite east.
But it'll be a show of intent whatever happens. Sadler has already said he prefers it smaller, so the 4600 was it we thought. Possibly no corner.
It could be great to make a statement no doubt and people saying we haven't sold this much before etc have no vision about where we could be long term or even short term, you have to build for the future and we haven't tried that hard yet, also under odd circumstances. 1st Championship season was post covid and many were cautious. 2nd season under Appleton, hardly going to inspire the masses under a hated man at the high prices we chose too. So we could have done far better even if we wet up this season.
I could though accept the 4600 east, although definitely better with a corner too, but on it's own would take us only slightly higher capacity wise than now, but would allow maybe 14k home fans and 2.2k away, or whatever splits.
That would be enough for now, but under the right circumstances if things went well it might not be long before that was filled.
I don't doubt SS when he says we could add to it in the future, which is good to hear, but obviously you need the fans to be able to attend when the occasions call.
I would love to see though, a 2 tier north, as I wonder if you'd be able to get a large part of the steelwork etc done over a slightly longer summer, then populate it below still whilst it's finished...
Probably just a pipe dream anyway.
1 more thing to mention, the reason we wouldn't be going any higher than 24 rows high is someone said that's the limit of ground entrances we have, any higher and you need them tunnels mid stand or something.
So for me just max out the 24 rows high from east to NE corner.
JJpool
Well-known member
Why can't they?
It's not about accepting mediocrity, it's about coming to terms with the reality.
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
Who’s reality?
The problem at this club is that for far too long it has been constrained by the ‘reality’ of those who own or look after it.
The same old excuses fir what ultimately amounts to personal limitations.
JJpool
Well-known member
I don't think they are paying anything for the stand.
The 6.5m town deal is going towards the sports village and east area... for purchasing houses and clearing the site etc.
It also said this in a recent article.
"Around £17m of private and other investment is expected to be added to the total spending, with Blackpool FC owner Simon Sadler due to contribute to the cost of the new stand."
BillyRonsonNo7
Well-known member
There is no new stand. 5 years and still nothing!!!