East stand

seasideone said:
It’s very easy to spend other people’s money on an off chance or a whim 👍
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It’s money SS has to spend and he knew that when he bought the club. The East in its current form has a sell by date.
If SS bought the club with the knowledge he couldn’t make the investment necessary to replace that stand without limiting the potential long term growth of the club and without reducing capacity - frankly it’s irresponsible.
Hopefully though - this is all conjecture though.

The fact is the East HAS to be rebuilt. The council are stumping up a big chunk of money to enable the project. Theres a need and demand to keep capacity at current levels and there’s a strong argument for an increase.

Whatever’s built is going to cost a significant sum. Even a 1000 seat stands likely going to cost £5 million + - as others have alluded too an increase of 1000-2000 seats on top of a 3-4000 seat stand isn’t going to cost 25-50% more. The majority of the spend goes into getting the project started. Putting the club in a position where BR needs further redevelopment in 10 years time because we’ve not future proofed ourselves is irresponsible. An extra £5 million now (and that’s not likely the true cost) could be the difference between £15-20 million in the not too distant future.
 
I'm sure I read somewhere that the costs are £3,000 per seat. That was a while back so undoubtedly a bit more now.
But as far as I can see this argument is hypothetical because nobody (on here at least) knows what the plans are.
 
Chunkylad said:
That is a good point. Depends on physical restrictions as discussed above. Yet you’re right. Adding an extra 2000 seats if it can be physically done without Back Henry street restrictions etc would be more than likely only an additional 10-20% on the overall cost.

Main point is this is all pure speculation
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Well apparently it was said at the meeting.

Mark_GT said:
My recollection of the meeting is that, when the club was pressed on this issue, 3,600 was mentioned as a capacity for the renewed East. This will hopefully be put on the record in the minutes of the meeting. We requested at the start of the meeting for minutes to be taken and issued publicly, so all supporters, whether part of a group or not, can understand what is being said and what is being planned. Everyone deserves that.
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I hope it's just a mis-speak and they mean 4600.

But did anyone question it when said?

If they said 3600 the first thing in my mind would be, 4600 was said by many articles etc, what's changed or was that 4600 just nonsense.

Also were any of the well made points on this thread put to them about maxing our pretty quickly and have very limited scope for future growth...
 
Insider said:
I'm sure I read somewhere that the costs are £3,000 per seat. That was a while back so undoubtedly a bit more now.
But as far as I can see this argument is hypothetical because nobody (on here at least) knows what the plans are.
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I think it’s likely closer to £5k a seat now. Hearts built a new 8000 seat main stand on a congested land in the central Edinburgh for £23 million and that was around 5 years ago and ran at almost twice the budgeted of £12 million. That’s around £3k a seat.
It’s mad to think a stand in Blackpool on land already clear will cost more - but it will.
 
JJpool said:
That would be the dream scenario, but will never happen sadly.

The dilemma I have is one of wanting to expand the north, as it's the place that is most popular and sells out first. People want to be near it and is the biggest draw.

Imagine adding to that atmosphere, like we do occasionally in the east.

Unless we got a 2 tiered north, the only solution is to have away fans SE, but that means that end is messed up and they're miles from fans in the north, which doesn't help with the atmosphere.

The best compromise is probably to build a NE corner and have that for home fans also, giving maybe 900 extra to the north. Then have a small strip of segregation, like they do at many other stadiums, a few seats worth and a line of stewards, put some netting up all along so nothing can be thrown through, and have away fans NE, then they could go into a small part of the SE if we wanted to give extra, but ideally we'd have it full all round the SE.

But then you still have the media section to think about. Although they could stay or be shifted somewhere else, like the west maybe...
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Anybody have any good ideas where we could locate Chizzy?
 
JJpool said:
Well apparently it was said at the meeting.



I hope it's just a mis-speak and they mean 4600.

But did anyone question it when said?

If they said 3600 the first thing in my mind would be, 4600 was said by many articles etc, what's changed or was that 4600 just nonsense.

Also were any of the well made points on this thread put to them about maxing our pretty quickly and have very limited scope for future growth...
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There was a good bit of comment about lack of ambition, a recurring theme, and I'll give credit that it was led by msg. This issue will not go away.
 
Mark_GT said:
Anybody have any good ideas where we could locate Chizzy?
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Get him as far towards Fleetwood as possible... mind you that would mean the north stand of he was still in the stadium, so no. Then again it would be funny having him there, unable to hear him. Would be good audio from home fans too then...

No I think tuck him away in the west somewhere, the toilets maybe?
 
seasideone said:
It’s very easy to spend other people’s money on an off chance or a whim 👍
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It’s also very easy to use this kind of bullshit to justify a lack of proper investment. The decision on numbers should meet our existing and our reasonable development requirements…. If Financial constraints are impacting on that decision, then the Club is effectively being held back.

There’s no ‘Whim’ about it either at 3,600 we don’t have enough capacity to meet the reasonable requirements.

Very few fans want a complete white elephant of a stand, but at the same time we need something that is going to adequately service our needs in the medium term.
 
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JJpool said:
They were expected be be submitting planning application a year ago for it when nothing had been purchased, so what you're saying makes no sense.
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Outline planning in principle, which is completely different to the final plans.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
One thing to be considered is that the population of the country is projected to keep growing. ONS figures show a predicted 9.9% rise in the next 15 years.

Our 16,000 current capacity would need to be 17,500 in 15 years time just to keep pace with population growth.
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Let's get those immigrants stopped at Dover and issued with tangerine scarves and a binding agreement to be Blackpool fans.
 
Insider said:
I'm sure I read somewhere that the costs are £3,000 per seat. That was a while back so undoubtedly a bit more now.
But as far as I can see this argument is hypothetical because nobody (on here at least) knows what the plans are.
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Exactly. Have the debate when plans are revealed to our Two Headed Pygmy supporters group and leaked on here.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
It’s money SS has to spend and he knew that when he bought the club. The East in its current form has a sell by date.
If SS bought the club with the knowledge he couldn’t make the investment necessary to replace that stand without limiting the potential long term growth of the club and without reducing capacity - frankly it’s irresponsible.
Hopefully though - this is all conjecture though.

The fact is the East HAS to be rebuilt. The council are stumping up a big chunk of money to enable the project. Theres a need and demand to keep capacity at current levels and there’s a strong argument for an increase.

Whatever’s built is going to cost a significant sum. Even a 1000 seat stands likely going to cost £5 million + - as others have alluded too an increase of 1000-2000 seats on top of a 3-4000 seat stand isn’t going to cost 25-50% more. The majority of the spend goes into getting the project started. Putting the club in a position where BR needs further redevelopment in 10 years time because we’ve not future proofed ourselves is irresponsible. An extra £5 million now (and that’s not likely the true cost) could be the difference between £15-20 million in the not too distant future.
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Do you use a random number generator?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It’s also very easy to use this kind of bullshit to justify a lack of proper investment. The decision on numbers should meet our existing and our reasonable development requirements…. If Financial constraints are impacting on that decision, then the Club is effectively being held back.

There’s no ‘Whim’ about it either at 3,600 we don’t have enough capacity to meet the reasonable requirements.

Very few fans want a complete white elephant of a stand, but at the same time we need something that is going to adequately service our needs in the medium term.
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Proper investment?

This guy has put more money into BFC than anyone in history, and the majority of people on here are like Oliver!!
 
JJpool said:
Well apparently it was said at the meeting.



I hope it's just a mis-speak and they mean 4600.

But did anyone question it when said?

If they said 3600 the first thing in my mind would be, 4600 was said by many articles etc, what's changed or was that 4600 just nonsense.

Also were any of the well made points on this thread put to them about maxing our pretty quickly and have very limited scope for future growth...
Click to expand...

Thanks JJ. I didn’t know that.
 
seasideone said:
Proper investment?

This guy has put more money into BFC than anyone in history, and the majority of people on here are like Oliver!!
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Just because he’s done some good doesn’t mean he’s not open to criticism too. If he’s making decisions that don’t appear to be in the best interests of the club it’s perfectly reasonable to question them. It’s not a case of being ungrateful. It’s a case of wanting what’s best for the club
 
seasideone said:
Proper investment?

This guy has put more money into BFC than anyone in history, and the majority of people on here are like Oliver!!
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I wasn’t referring to any one specifically, I was referring to the kind of poor excuse making that was offered up in your post. All this ‘spending other peoples money’ bollocks

Ultimately all money is other peoples money…. The rich only have the luxury of being rich, because they capitalise on others (and to the cost of others)… Too many rich people seem to forget that fact.

Rich people owe a debt to society and to the people who have enabled them to live in the style they’ve become accustomed to. If that means spunking money on a local football club, then it’s a small price to pay in return!!

Anyway.. ‘Proper Investment’ yes… If we’re going to build an East Stand, then the very least we should do is build one that is actually fit for purpose and meets the basic medium term requirements of the club. If the owner (whoever that may be) is unable to afford a proper job, then let’s get the Club up for sale, step aside and give someone else the opportunity.
 
seasideone said:
It’s not a flounce.

It’s an actual point - people on here make numbers up all the time to try and prove their point - which in reality is madness.
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It’s a football forum for fans.
If we have to use facts and figures we may as well shut it down.
None of us know the facts - all we can do is speculate. For all we know the rumour is complete horse shit and SS is going to build something suitable. BUT based on the rumour what may be planned is very easily argued to be insufficient.
Also based on what other stadium developments cost, figures which are in the public domain and some sensible assumptions about how it doesn’t literally cost £3k per seat to build a stand - it’s pretty reasonable to build some opinions.
 
I’m realistic on this. If 3600 is what we get then at least we are one step further on from where we are. If funds become more available (Prem league or player sales, or a new owner / Simon gaining massive wealth) then we can do the North East and maybe restructure the north.

A lot depends on what land we as a club actually own. You can’t just build on council land unless the council is prepared to relinquish it.
 
There will probably be close to 10k home fans today, for a game that isn't particularly special in terms of opposition and with being marooned in 8th most the season in league 1.

That's with a mixed bag season and an OK price, not one that can get a few more in.

So by the time any stand is built, we'll have likely grown again, if we do well this or next season.

We could easily be getting 11k home fans regularly in league 1 under better conditions and even more for the big games.

When you take off the hospitality seats it won't leave a lot available to the average fan who you will attract. As most won't be going all in at hospitality level.

A bit less than 13k ish maybe.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
It’s a football forum for fans.
If we have to use facts and figures we may as well shut it down.
None of us know the facts - all we can do is speculate. For all we know the rumour is complete horse shit and SS is going to build something suitable. BUT based on the rumour what may be planned is very easily argued to be insufficient.
Also based on what other stadium developments cost, figures which are in the public domain and some sensible assumptions about how it doesn’t literally cost £3k per seat to build a stand - it’s pretty reasonable to build some opinions.
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As said previously, it's a rumour backed up by another posted who was there.

Can only hope there was a mis speak...
 
JJpool said:
What do you mean it won't go away? In what sense.

Was SS there?
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It feels like one of the biggest if not the biggest topics for debate. Just look at this thread! No, no Simon this time. Five from BFC though including Julian Winter.
 
Insider said:
Just to add (again) I've actually seen some exploratory work being carried out for the East Stand. Not saying that definitely means it's happening but it certainly suggests plans have not been ditched.
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Saw some blokes on the Horsebridge Rd/ Ledbury Rd end of the training ground field with Theodolites couple of weeks ago also.
 
JJpool said:
Well apparently it was said at the meeting.



I hope it's just a mis-speak and they mean 4600.

But did anyone question it when said?

If they said 3600 the first thing in my mind would be, 4600 was said by many articles etc, what's changed or was that 4600 just nonsense.

Also were any of the well made points on this thread put to them about maxing our pretty quickly and have very limited scope for future growth...
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Not replied to one person on this thread because I’ve been really busy, I was told this by someone I believe would not just make it up for the sake of it and the person only the best for our football club.
 
Northstandsinger said:
Not replied to one person on this thread because I’ve been really busy, I was told this by someone I believe would not just make it up for the sake of it and the person only the best for our football club.
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Yeah fair enough, it's been corroborated by someone there so seems true.

If so it's disappointing and isn't showing much ambition or will to grow the fanbase.

Yes before anyone jumps in we're eternally grateful to SS and it's not my money...

But we could be filling this in no time at all if we were actually a good team, which were not sadly.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I wasn’t referring to any one specifically, I was referring to the kind of poor excuse making that was offered up in your post. All this ‘spending other peoples money’ bollocks

Ultimately all money is other peoples money…. The rich only have the luxury of being rich, because they capitalise on others (and to the cost of others)… Too many rich people seem to forget that fact.

Rich people owe a debt to society and to the people who have enabled them to live in the style they’ve become accustomed to. If that means spunking money on a local football club, then it’s a small price to pay in return!!

Anyway.. ‘Proper Investment’ yes… If we’re going to build an East Stand, then the very least we should do is build one that is actually fit for purpose and meets the basic medium term requirements of the club. If the owner (whoever that may be) is unable to afford a proper job, then let’s get the Club up for sale, step aside and give someone else the opportunity.
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So, you'd have the current owner step aside rather than have him build a stand holding 3600?

Big call that. We could easily end up with owners who not only don't build any stand at all but drive the club into the ground.

And where are we going to find the next owner? Pilley is locked up so that leaves that Singaporean chancer from those that we know have shown an interest. Who else? I doubt that there is anyone out there looking to buy a club in need of major infrastructure investment when we've seen plenty of clubs get into financial trouble over the last few years. The canny investor just needs to wait to buy a fully packaged club at a distressed price. Wigan and Huddersfield are two immediate examples that come to mind.

I find it bemusing that more and more if us are getting more and more demanding of Sadler. For a while everyone supported his efforts but over the last couple of years there have been these growing complaints that he doesn't spend enough of his hard-earned on us all. I don't remember this clamouring for this sort of expenditure when he first bought us. I actually remember him saying that his goal was to run the club sustainably and I dont remember anyone questioning that aim. Nevertheless, last we heard from him he said he was projected to spend £90m. That sounds like he's actually being a lot more ambitious than running sustainablly and that's still nowhere near enough for so many.

If he was at the match today I doubt that there was anything he saw to convince him to build larger. Another thread described today as the biggest game of the season. This would've been viewed as a big game for the majority of the last 50 years yet there was nothing in today's turn out to encourage him to build bigger.

I really think that we should be careful what we wish for as we have an owner who promised stability and has delivered on that promise. I for one don't want the club put at risk for the sake of a couple of thousand extra seats or for a risky push at the big time.
 
TheLuker said:
So, you'd have the current owner step aside rather than have him build a stand holding 3600?

Big call that. We could easily end up with owners who not only don't build any stand at all but drive the club into the ground.

And where are we going to find the next owner? Pilley is locked up so that leaves that Singaporean chancer from those that we know have shown an interest. Who else? I doubt that there is anyone out there looking to buy a club in need of major infrastructure investment when we've seen plenty of clubs get into financial trouble over the last few years. The canny investor just needs to wait to buy a fully packaged club at a distressed price. Wigan and Huddersfield are two immediate examples that come to mind.

I find it bemusing that more and more if us are getting more and more demanding of Sadler. For a while everyone supported his efforts but over the last couple of years there have been these growing complaints that he doesn't spend enough of his hard-earned on us all. I don't remember this clamouring for this sort of expenditure when he first bought us. I actually remember him saying that his goal was to run the club sustainably and I dont remener anyone questioning that aim
Nevertheless, last we heard from him he said he was projected to spend £90m. That sounds like he's actually being a lot more ambitious than running sustainablly and that's still nowhere near enough for so many.

If he was at the match today I doubt that there was anything he saw to convince him to build larger. Another thread described today as the biggest game of the season. This would've been viewed as a big game for the majority of the last 50 years yet there was nothing in today's fan turn out to encourage him to build bigger.

I really think that we should be careful what we wish for as we have an owner who promised stability and has delivered on that promise. I for one don't want the club put at risk for the sake of a couple of thousand extra seats or for a risky push at the big time.
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I’d prefer not to bother with a stand at all rather than building one that doesn’t serve our medium term development needs. Its totally pointless! Better to give a new owner a blank canvas or build a proper stand at a point when we can actually afford it, rather than allowing financial constraints to dictate the scope of the development.

As far as SS is concerned I think he has done a very solid job of getting the Football Club back on its feet and functioning as a professional outfit. I’m sure most fans will be eternally grateful for this and of course ensuring the club was no longer in Oyston hands… However….

You are absolutely right that there is increasing discontent both in regard to his approach to fans and level of investment, which has possibly fallen short of expectations. This fanbase is no different to any other and we want proper success and for any owner to have a clear and well communicated vision for how we achieve that success… For whatever reason the vision has never been communicated or materialised.

This stand thing is one of a number of signals over the past year or more that the Current Owner has perhaps lost some of his appetite for rebuilding this Club and I can fully understand that… It’s a thankless task and football fans are a demanding bunch - that’s the nature of the beast that m afraid.

I’m not sure about the £90M thing or what exactly that constitutes, but I’d imagine that a good proportion of that investment will relate to capital projects that will increase the asset value of the business.

It’s easy to play things down as ‘Just a couple of thousand seats’, but ultimately it’s a couple of thousand seats here and a pretty unimpressive transfer window there, a pretty uninspiring season here, on top of the last disastrous season there, an appalling manager appointment here on top of a ridiculous appointment there etc… So over time these things all add up …

Stability is something you might want to offer up as a solution to some kind of poorly run charity or perhaps a run down stately home, but as far as a football club is concerned I’m afraid stability is just boring…. It’s fine for a while to stabilise a Club that has been in decline, but if treading water is where we are at, then that’s simply not sustainable over time - fans will just get bored and walk away. So to that extent I do tend to think that stepping aside (assuming of course that the right owner comes forward) is probably the best way forward… it’s certainly preferable to the constant reminders of how much it costs to run a club and fans being continually made to feel like they are out of order for wanting to make progress…..

Maybe it’s better that an owner is more detached and not a fan of the club… maybe then fans can press the owner for investment without being guilt tripped etc..

As for putting the club at risk, this decision is one that could very easily hamper the long term progress of the football club by building a capacity / fanbase limiting stadium…. That too is a risk… But not only that it’s pointless….

Edit to Add: I’m not sure at what point a Hime game against Oxford over half way through a pretty turgid season would ever have been considered a ‘Big Game’ - certainly not in my time supporting the Club… As for the game itself it was certainly no great advert for L1 football… I had to get a coffee at Half Time to keep my eyes open.
 
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BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I’d prefer not to bother with a stand at all rather than building one that doesn’t serve our medium term development needs. Its totally pointless! Better to give a new owner a blank canvas or build a proper stand at a point when we can actually afford it, rather than allowing financial constraints to dictate the scope of the development.

As far as SS is concerned I think he has gone a very solid job of getting the Football Club back on its feet and functioning as a professional outfit. I’m sure most fans will be eternally grateful for this and of course ensuring the club was no longer in Oyston hands… However….

You are absolutely right that there is increasing discontent both in regard to his approach to fans and level of investment, which has possibly fallen short of expectations. This fanbase is no different to any other and we want proper success and for any owner to have a clear and well communicated vision for how we achieve that success… For whatever reason the vision has never been communicated or materialised.

This stand thing is one of a number of signals over the past year or more that the Current Owner has perhaps lost some of his appetite for rebuilding this Club and I can fully understand that… It’s a thankless task and football fans are a demanding bunch - that’s the nature of the beast that m afraid.

I’m not sure about the £90M thing or what exactly that constitutes, but I’d imagine that a good proportion of that investment will relate to capital projects that will increase the asset value of the business.

It’s easy to play things down as ‘Just a couple of thousand seats’, but ultimately it’s a couple of thousand seats here and a pretty unimpressive transfer window there, a pretty uninspiring season here, on top of the last disastrous season there, an appalling manager appointment here on top of a ridiculous appointment there etc… So over time these things all add up …

Stability is something you might want to offer up as a solution to some kind of poorly run charity or perhaps a run down stately home, but as far as a football club is concerned I’m afraid stability is just boring…. It’s fine for a while to stabilise a Club that has been in decline, but if treading water is where we are at, then that’s simply not sustainable over time - fans will just get bored and walk away. So to that extent I do tend to think that stepping aside (assuming of course that the right owner comes forward) is probably the best way forward… it’s certainly preferable to the constant reminders of how much it costs to run a club and fans being continually made to feel like they are out of order for wanting to make progress…..

Maybe it’s better that an owner is more detached and not a fan of the club… maybe then fans can press the owner for investment without being guilt tripped etc..

As for putting the club at risk, this decision is one that could very easily hamper the long term progress of the football club by building a capacity / fanbase limiting stadium…. That too is a risk… But not only that it’s pointless….
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So you're happy for Sadler to sell up if he can find "the right owner". As I said in my previous post, I doubt that anyone would want to buy us given the infrastructure investment needed and the better options available elsewhere. I also dont think that capital exoenditure necessarily increases the asset value of football clubs to the full extent of the capital invested given that most clubs run with losses and clubs become available at distressed prices. Someone needs to contact all of those billionaires on The Fylde Coast to see if any of them are willing to put 100m+ into the club because I just can't see anyone wanting to touch this club for reasons other than charity.

We all know that that last season was a disaster but I think that this season we've been told that we have top 6 playing budget and for me, I think we've had a couple of decent transfer windows. There are no certainties in football but the owner has clearly spent to give us a good chance at promotion and that's probably the most important thing that he can do year-on-year. Yet still we grumble.

A small stand is not going to put the club at risk anywhere near to the extent that a bad owner will. My fear is that Sadler gets fed up of all of this bollocks and hands the keys to who ever will take it from him.
 
TheLuker said:
So you're happy for Sadler to sell up if he can find "the right owner". As I said in my previous post, I doubt that anyone would want to buy us given the infrastructure investment needed and the better options available elsewhere. I also dont think that capital exoenditure necessarily increases the asset value of football clubs to the full extent of the capital invested given that most clubs run with losses and clubs become available at distressed prices. Someone needs to contact all of those billionaires on The Fylde Coast to see if any of them are willing to put 100m+ into the club because I just can't see anyone wanting to touch this club for reasons other than charity.

We all know that that last season was a disaster but I think that this season we've been told that we have top 6 playing budget and for me, I think we've had a couple of decent transfer windows. There are no certainties in football but the owner has clearly spent to give us a good chance at promotion and that's probably the most important thing that he can do year-on-year. Yet still we grumble.

A small stand is not going to put the club at risk anywhere near to the extent that a bad owner will. My fear is that Sadler gets fed up of all of this bollocks and hands the keys to who ever will take it from him.
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As I said earlier you seem to repeat a lot of the drivvle that Karl Oyston regularly came out with. We’ve heard that same old crap for decades … I’m afraid it doesn’t wash anymore. (I’m beginning to wonder if TheDarkLord has decided to make a return to wind up the AVFTT masses 😉).
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
As I said earlier you seem to repeat a lot of the drivvle that Karl Oyston regularly came out with. We’ve heard that same old crap for decades … I’m afraid it doesn’t wash anymore. (I’m beginning to wonder if TheDarkLord has decided to make a return to wind up the AVFTT masses 😉).
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He’s a cock
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
As I said earlier you seem to repeat a lot of the drivvle that Karl Oyston regularly came out with. We’ve heard that same old crap for decades … I’m afraid it doesn’t wash anymore. (I’m beginning to wonder if TheDarkLord has decided to make a return to wind up the AVFTT masses 😉).
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Playing the Oyston card is the BFC equivalent of calling someone a nazi in the real world if you disagree with them.
 
TheLuker said:
Playing the Oyston card is the BFC equivalent of calling someone a nazi in the real world if you disagree with them.
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‘Playing the Oyston Card’😂

I’m simply drawing an accurate comparison, based on posting style and markedly similar comments.
 
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