Should he stay or should he go now?

Should he stay or should he go now

  • Go

    Votes: 146 59.8%

  • Stay

    Votes: 65 26.6%

  • Not bothered

    Votes: 33 13.5%
  • Total voters
    244
BFCfan33 said:
Last night was poor, i think the players have to take some responsibility as well for that performance.
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Of course they do, they’re on the pitch. On Saturday everyone was lauding Critchley, he was on the pitch fist pumping himself stupid, and accepting all the plaudits. When it goes tits up, he should accept the brickbats as well and have the gumption to face the fans at the end and not go skulking off.
 
I'm not too disheartened when we lose & have given our all, like Bolton away. But last night was unacceptable AGAIN why o why didn't he stick as close as possible to the 11 that finished on Saturday. I'm fed up with his needless fuck ing tinkering. So he can get lost for me. I've put "not bothered" because that best reflects my feelings at most of our home games & also in the knowledge that he won't be potted anytime soon.
 
Sooty59 said:
I'm not too disheartened when we lose & have given our all, like Bolton away. But last night was unacceptable AGAIN why o why didn't he stick as close as possible to the 11 that finished on Saturday. I'm fed up with his needless fuck ing tinkering. So he can get lost for me. I've put "not bothered" because that best reflects my feelings at most of our home games & also in the knowledge that he won't be potted anytime soon.
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Bolton away was awful

One upfront we didn't lay a glove on them due to his negative tactics
 
Albert Ross said:
Of course they do, they’re on the pitch. On Saturday everyone was lauding Critchley, he was on the pitch fist pumping himself stupid, and accepting all the plaudits. When it goes tits up, he should accept the brickbats as well and have the gumption to face the fans at the end and not go skulking off.
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I cant disagree with any off those points you have made. All staff and players should thank the fans for attending at the end of a game irrelevant of the score.
 
Stay for now but if the same nonsense and the results that the nonsense brings, continue, then he should leave straight after the final whistle of the final game.
Which we know won't be the playoff final!
 
Macseasider said:
Just posted the same on Athers thread that regardless of what Sadler says if the crowd are against Critchley then he will go. No manager survives losing the crowd for long.

But he hasn't lost the crowd. Only 5 days ago the North were begging him for a fist pump. So there is no appetite to change manager.
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Yep and I don’t think I’ve heard one Crichley out chant.
 
poolfc said:
I think Critchley has come back to us from his failed flit without the confidence, belief and clarity in his own thinking that he built up for himself around the back end of 2021. Tactically, how he reacts in games. It's not quite there as it was. And it shows in his team with how one minute you think you're getting somewhere and the next they just fade and wilt when up against it and go through the same careless sloppy routines without anyone involved taking responsibility.

But I'd also love a genuine thoughts sit down with him because I don't know many league one managers who'd expect much joy on a weekly basis when having to take on the opposition with Jake Beesley and Kylian Kouassi up front and things like that. So in his head is he thinking I just coach a method into the players the club will pay for.
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Nearly all of our players were brought to the club under his watch. He has said Beesley was a player he wanted to bring in and we paid about 400k for him. We've recently given CJ a fresh 2+1. He's had some successes in his player acquisitions but some real head scratchers too. I honestly think Apter would be offering a lot more than CJ if he was here, and he cost nowt and will be on much lowvr wages. It's poor judgement in my opinion. He told us Norburn is maybe the best midfielder in the division. He invested in Casey, who really lacks pace, so is unlikely to be the investment he was intended to be. We put something like a million into Joseph, and 700k into Gabriel. Sadler is putting in 4 or 5 million every season but too much is just frittered, for me. We have had some decent successes, Yates, Bowler, Marv, Dougall for a combined 250k i think, but we aren't that good at identifying potential, really. And the successes have cost us little. Morgan is a good find, on a free.

I think we know Critch well enough now to know his strengths and weaknesses as a coach and a manager. He's a good man to have at the club, but in a different, lesser role. He played one football league game as a player and then specialised in youth coaching. His strengths lie in the stuff he knows best. And he wasn't smart or brave enough to recruit an assistant coach outside of his frame of reference, to provide the in game experience he lacks. He'd rather rely on the iPad.

I'm unsure about changing our head coach though. It went spectacularly badly after he left last time. We have very little football experience in the building in the decision making areas. Just Julian Winter, really, with Dobbie and Eardley at the youth levels, I think?
 
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voyeur said:
Nearly all of our players were brought to the club under his watch. He has said Beesley was a player he wanted to bring in and we paid about 400k for him. We've recently given CJ a fresh 2+1. He's had some successes in his player acquisitions but some real head scratchers too. I honestly think Apter would be offering a lot more than CJ if he was here, and he cost nowt and will be on much lowvr wages. It's poor judgement in my opinion. He told us Norburn is maybe the best midfielder in the division. He invested in Casey, who really lacks pace, so is unlikely to be the investment he was intended to be. We put something like a million into Joseph, and 700k into Gabriel. Sadler is putting in 4 or 5 million every season but too much is just frittered, for me. We have had some decent successes, Yates, Bowler, Marv, Dougall for a combined 250k i think, but we aren't that good at identifying potential, really. And the successes have cost us little. Morgan is a good find, on a free.

I think we know Critch well enough now to know his strengths and weaknesses as a coach and a manager. He's a good man to have at the club, but in a different, lesser role. He played one football league game as a player and then specialised in youth coaching. His strengths lie in the stuff he knows best. And he wasn't smart or brave enough to recruit an assistant coach outside of his frame of reference, to provide the in game experience he lacks. He'd rather rely on the iPad.

I'm unsure about changing our head coach though. It went spectacularly badly after he left last time. We have very little football experience in the building in the decision making areas. Just Julian Winter, really, with Dobbie and Eardley at the youth levels, I think?
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There's no way Beesley was his first choice or he'd have been straight into the championship team as a Madine successor. He ended up flogging Gary Goals until he had 60 points and then gave Beesley a belated first start when safe.

Yes like you I don't particularly want Critchley in or out. Want it to work but it all just feels wrong and I can't understand why. You know when a club has got it's house together and this one hasn't.
 
They want stability, and that’s fine if the spirit and energy is there. I’d happily accept the losses with the wins if I thought we had the right person in charge and there’s sign of progress.
But the bottom line is that his boring, robotic, safety first, spreadsheet formulated football-by-numbers approach is the complete antithesis of where I thought SS wanted us to be as a Club.
His magnolia vision is also reflected in the recruitment of some of the worst players I’ve witnessed in tangerine & white.
 
poolfc said:
There's no way Beesley was his first choice or he'd have been straight into the championship team as a Madine successor. He ended up flogging Gary Goals until he had 60 points and then gave Beesley a belated first start when safe.

Yes like you I don't particularly want Critchley in or out. Want it to work but it all just feels wrong and I can't understand why. You know when a club has got it's house together and this one hasn't.
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Beesley was bought, according to Critch, as a player that would develop into a championship player, but not for immediate consumption.

It feels wrong i think because it's all text book coaching manual, football by numbers, and there's the missing ingredient of football instinct that some people have, and usually comes from a career in the game - but not always. What is the job of a head coach?

Finding players that work for you, instilling tactics that work, instilling the right mentality, identifying leaders, managing players away from the pitch, with both carrot and stick, building a good support team around you, understanding opponents, managing games while they are happening. It's rare for one person to have all these characteristics, so it's about having a group of poeple that covers all bases.

I think we have some gaps.
- we aren't that brilliant at scouting players (we even let Apter go out and use CJ instead, which to me indicates we don't know what to look for)
- we are tactically very rigid this season
- we lack leaders
- we don't respond effectively, in a tactical sense, to what is happening within games.
- we don't have a strong enough mentality when things go against us in games (although we do pick ourselves up later - we haven't had long losing streaks as well as long winning streaks)

I might be wrong but it feels like we do badly when we haven't had long to prvpare for a game. Like last night, and last Tuesday. Derby H, Northampton H, Burton A, Vale A, Cheltenham A. What does that tell us? Rotation doesn't work? Critch needs a lot of prep for a game?
 
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Chunkylad said:
Do these polls open so we can see who votes which
Albert Ross said:
Brunskill ? Garitty? He must rate them as well, they’re stil here, still nodding.
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the whole lot of them can go you only have to ask as a example QPR fans though of the Headmaster to realise that he is a fraud and is robbing a living and is that far up Sadlers arse that he robbing a living he has to go now.failing that he will send the club on a downward spiral enough is enough and a Taxi for the Headmaster.
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whether he should stay or go,still unsure for various reasons but every shiite performance and there's been plenty of them lately does nothing to help his cause. With anyone.
 
voyeur said:
Beesley was bought, according to Critch, as a player that would develop into a championship player, but not for immediate consumption.

It feels wrong i think because it's all text book coaching manual, football by numbers, and there's the missing ingredient of football instinct that some people have, and usually comes from a career in the game - but not always. What is the job of a head coach?

Finding players that work for you, instilling tactics that work, instilling the right mentality, identifying leaders, managing players away from the pitch, with both carrot and stick, building a good support team around you, understanding opponents, managing games while they are happening. It's rare for one person to have all these characteristics, so it's about having a group of poeple that covers all bases.

I think we have some gaps.
- we aren't that brilliant at scouting players (we even let Apter go out and use CJ instead, which to me indicates we don't know what to look for)
- we are tactically very rigid this season
- we lack leaders
- we don't respond effectively, in a tactical sense, to what is happening within games.
- we don't have a strong enough mentality when things go against us in games (although we do pick ourselves up later - we haven't had long losing streaks as well as long winning streaks)

I might be wrong but it feels like we do badly when we haven't had long to prvpare for a game. Like last night, and last Tuesday. Derby H, Northampton H, Burton A, Vale A, Cheltenham A. What does that tell us? Rotation doesn't work? Critch needs a lot of prep for a game?
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Probably both.
 
voyeur said:
Beesley was bought, according to Critch, as a player that would develop into a championship player, but not for immediate consumption.

It feels wrong i think because it's all text book coaching manual, football by numbers, and there's the missing ingredient of football instinct that some people have, and usually comes from a career in the game - but not always. What is the job of a head coach?

Finding players that work for you, instilling tactics that work, instilling the right mentality, identifying leaders, managing players away from the pitch, with both carrot and stick, building a good support team around you, understanding opponents, managing games while they are happening. It's rare for one person to have all these characteristics, so it's about having a group of poeple that covers all bases.

I think we have some gaps.
- we aren't that brilliant at scouting players (we even let Apter go out and use CJ instead, which to me indicates we don't know what to look for)
- we are tactically very rigid this season
- we lack leaders
- we don't respond effectively, in a tactical sense, to what is happening within games.
- we don't have a strong enough mentality when things go against us in games (although we do pick ourselves up later - we haven't had long losing streaks as well as long winning streaks)

I might be wrong but it feels like we do badly when we haven't had long to prvpare for a game. Like last night, and last Tuesday. Derby H, Northampton H, Burton A, Vale A, Cheltenham A. What does that tell us? Rotation doesn't work? Critch needs a lot of prep for a game?
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Probably recency bias with the latest abject defeat but it sounds like you're describing what Richie Wellens is doing with Leyton Orient there. He'd certainly rock the comfy boat here.
 
poolfc said:
Probably recency bias with the latest abject defeat but it sounds like you're describing what Richie Wellens is doing with Leyton Orient there. He'd certainly rock the comfy boat here.
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Wellens was a strong character as a player, he wasn't everyone's cup of tea. I was a big fan. He was a player who wanted to control a game of football too, and had vision and talent. He wanted to be the main man. We seem to be lacking that sort of character, and I'd love him to join us - but it seems that SS's character is more aligned with the NC character type.

Dobbie has some of what Wellens has, he too was a strong character on the pitch, and talented, but he was less fiery/arrogant. A decent compromise, maybe. He hasn't proven anything yet, but I see no harm in giving him a go, I think he'd be smart enough to appoint an experienced assistant. Just isn't likely to happen this side of Xmas.... if at all.
 
voyeur said:
Wellens was a strong character as a player, he wasn't everyone's cup of tea. I was a big fan. He was a player who wanted to control a game of football too, and had vision and talent. He wanted to be the main man. We seem to be lacking that sort of character, and I'd love him to join us - but it seems that SS's character is more aligned with the NC character type.

Dobbie has some of what Wellens has, he too was a strong character on the pitch, and talented, but he was less fiery/arrogant. A decent compromise, maybe. He hasn't proven anything yet, but I see no harm in giving him a go, I think he'd be smart enough to appoint an experienced assistant. Just isn't likely to happen this side of Xmas.... if at all.
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Yes agree. Saw Wellens on the Salford Sky doc and he made a mockery of their fancy powerpoint in a planning meeting when he just bluntly said 'sign better players' when asked why they were underperforming against expectation and what was needed to change. Clueless Chris Casper got his fancy xG stats shoved right up his sheriffs badge.

Dobbie played his football here and chased his money contracts elsewhere. And now he lives local it sounds like he has a support role he's happy in because it suits his family life. But when he did step up last year he did the opposite of what I expected and didn't just make a bad situation even worse, unlike everyone else in a management role in the club at the time. Even as a free hit for him with no other responsibility than to pick a team and tick off a remaining fixture list it looked like he had the confidence and clarity in himself and his actions to get a group together, players from wherever he could find them and even some who were injured but played on, to keep fighting to the end. A bit calmer less volatile but same clarity.

I don't like this feeling that we already know well in advance that we're going to go and lose 1-0 at Leyton Orient and be a bunch of strangers who can't cope.
 
poolfc said:
Yes agree. Saw Wellens on the Salford Sky doc and he made a mockery of their fancy powerpoint in a planning meeting when he just bluntly said 'sign better players' when asked why they were underperforming against expectation and what was needed to change. Clueless Chris Casper got his fancy xG stats shoved right up his sheriffs badge.

Dobbie played his football here and chased his money contracts elsewhere. And now he lives local it sounds like he has a support role he's happy in because it suits his family life. But when he did step up last year he did the opposite of what I expected and didn't just make a bad situation even worse, unlike everyone else in a management role in the club at the time. Even as a free hit for him with no other responsibility than to pick a team and tick off a remaining fixture list it looked like he had the confidence and clarity in himself and his actions to get a group together, players from wherever he could find them and even some who were injured but played on, to keep fighting to the end. A bit calmer less volatile but same clarity.

I don't like this feeling that we already know well in advance that we're going to go and lose 1-0 at Leyton Orient and be a bunch of strangers who can't cope.
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Excellent post. Clarity. 🤟
 
BFC95 said:
The issue is that with 10 games to go, last night was not a one off, it's a trend, and he has zero ideas on how to stop that trend. How many times have we come away from away games against 'lesser' teams and not had a shot on target and been utterly dreadful. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, and that's what it is. Why anyone thinks it will be any different next season is beyond me. Get rid and start planning for the summer.
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He seemed surprised that Orient abandoned there usual plan and went long. Does he not think Wellens is capable of looking of how we performed at, Burton, Cheltenham, Port Vale, Stevenage, Wycombe, Lincoln etc and look at how these teams got results against us ?
Just for not changing the formation and having Virtue as a right wing back he should go now.
 
voyeur said:
Wellens was a strong character as a player, he wasn't everyone's cup of tea. I was a big fan. He was a player who wanted to control a game of football too, and had vision and talent. He wanted to be the main man. We seem to be lacking that sort of character, and I'd love him to join us - but it seems that SS's character is more aligned with the NC character type.

Dobbie has some of what Wellens has, he too was a strong character on the pitch, and talented, but he was less fiery/arrogant. A decent compromise, maybe. He hasn't proven anything yet, but I see no harm in giving him a go, I think he'd be smart enough to appoint an experienced assistant. Just isn't likely to happen this side of Xmas.... if at all.
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I have my doubts about Wellens, yes he was a talented player but lacked the pace to be a top player. Also, he had the Man U arrogance but not the high level ability to back it up. 8 transfer requests in the 4 years he was here are testament to that arrogance. He was ok when things were going well but often went missing when we were up against it. However, he did have a reasonable career at Championship level with Leicester so his attitude did improve as his career developed

Those same traits seem to have shown through in his managerial jobs, currently in his 5th job and to be fair doing well at Orient. I get the feeling he would be seen as a "difficult" character by SS and not fit the top level coach he seems to favour.

My opinion is that we should see out the season with Critchley and see how things develop. I would also keep a close eye on how Charlie Adam fares at Fleetwood because he has shown some potential in the short time he's been at Fleetwood.
 
Seainsea said:
I have my doubts about Wellens, yes he was a talented player but lacked the pace to be a top player. Also, he had the Man U arrogance but not the high level ability to back it up. 8 transfer requests in the 4 years he was here are testament to that arrogance. He was ok when things were going well but often went missing when we were up against it. However, he did have a reasonable career at Championship level with Leicester so his attitude did improve as his career developed

Those same traits seem to have shown through in his managerial jobs, currently in his 5th job and to be fair doing well at Orient. I get the feeling he would be seen as a "difficult" character by SS and not fit the top level coach he seems to favour.

My opinion is that we should see out the season with Critchley and see how things develop. I would also keep a close eye on how Charlie Adam fares at Fleetwood because he has shown some potential in the short time he's been at Fleetwood.
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Good summation that. He always lacked courage to me. I’d take Charlie as a player all day long in lieu of Wellens. I’m not sold on him being a great manager yet either.
 
Macseasider said:
Just posted the same on Athers thread that regardless of what Sadler says if the crowd are against Critchley then he will go. No manager survives losing the crowd for long.

But he hasn't lost the crowd. Only 5 days ago the North were begging him for a fist pump. So there is no appetite to change manager.
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It sounds so wrong. Begging for a fist pump.
 
It’s been done to death now, but there is a lesson to learn from Appleton. He should have gone after Wigan away, and obviously not replaced by McCarthy. It’s important SS doesn’t wait too long on Critchley.

Even giving him the start of next season risks another year, because a new manager would want his own players and that takes time. Really, SS should be looking critically at the season and if he can afford to give Critchley more time. Unless some miracle takes place, we aren’t going to see anything different and the angst amongst fans will worsen. Then you end up mid-season trying to find a manager that will do the job we need, not just one that’s out of work.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
It’s been done to death now, but there is a lesson to learn from Appleton. He should have gone after Wigan away, and obviously not replaced by McCarthy. It’s important SS doesn’t wait too long on Critchley.

Even giving him the start of next season risks another year, because a new manager would want his own players and that takes time. Really, SS should be looking critically at the season and if he can afford to give Critchley more time. Unless some miracle takes place, we aren’t going to see anything different and the angst amongst fans will worsen. Then you end up mid-season trying to find a manager that will do the job we need, not just one that’s out of work.
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He is going nowhere, as i have always on here it is a four year project so you have to give him to at least the end of next season this access his position
 
It's swings and roundabouts really, I think we are playing awful football in an awful league and that's down to Critchley, I dont think many fans could stand another 12 months of this sideways backward hoofball .
 
BFCfan33 said:
Yeah i think he was but under his tenure we were awful, i just think we are in better hands under Critchley that's my opinion so im correct just you are with your views and opinions
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I would hope that there are clauses in his contract regarding performance etc and detailing the limit of compensation in the event of either party terminating the contract.
 
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