www.bbc.co.uk
wonder if you had that view about Russia and it's war with Ukraine? You need to get in the real world if you think we have any influence over what countries like China and Russia think of what we say. They don't pay a blind bit of notice. That's the reality.
Wow. Comparing the weapons Hamas (well what's left of them) receives to Israel.
just out of interest, did the extensive well planned military operation carried out by Hamas on 7/10 result in the deaths of many non-combatant civilians? Why didn't we stop trade and other associations with Iran, Russia and China who are countries supplying arms and deliberately putting obstacles in the way of maybe bringing an end to this war. It suits them to block any resolutions put forward by them at the meetings of the UN council.
Well they are still able to put up fierce resistance aren@t they so let@s not understate how guilty they are in all this. They clearly have plenty of arms left and maybe a way of getting even more arms into Gaza.
Equally, you could say that you are willing to turn a blind eye to any atrocity committed in this conflict, as long as they are perpetrated by the Israelis.
so you concede then that there are two sides to the debate. War is war Robbie and not everything is equal. It really wasn't rocket science to think there would be horrendous consequences because f the actions of Hamas on 7/10. The innocent Palestinians in Gaza are suffering horribly and meanwhile hostages are still being held but hey perhaps you'd forgotten about them.
Hamas wants to kill every Israeli, in fact every Jew worldwide, that's fairly binary.
How do you know that? How many years have you been working in this field? And what about the non-Hamas normal everyday innocent Palestinians? They fair game?
not unintentionally forgotten but i will spell it out for you. An innocent Palestinian life being taken is very much equal to an innocent Israeli life being taken. My point was simply that in war nothing turns out to be equal and it was always likely that the repercussions would be greater on the innocent people of Gaza. And don't dare to try and pigeon hole me into a category. Thanks.
I think the fact they killed three British citizens, former members of our armed forces, would be sufficient reason alone.
yes you have haven't you. All your criticism is one sided. What about the non Netanyahu supporting, of which there are many, innocent Israelis? Were they fair game?
No they weren't. And I think both sides have been a total disgrace. But when British aid workers are murdered then it's time to make a stance.
yes it's upsetting and wrong that British aid workers have been murdered that's for sure. But the fact we only supply 0.3% of their total arms to Israel won't make the slightest bit of difference and our country is not an nor should it be the social or moral conscience for the rest of the world. Have we ever got involved in demanding that Russia an Iran stop supplying arms to Hamas. Said it earlier, they couldn't give a monkeys what we think. This is the real world where rightly or wrongly stuff like supplying arms to other nations happens.
Yes. Can you imagine what the same people would be saying if:
The percentage really doesn’t matter. It’s the principle.
It's in their charter, plus 7/10 was a bit of clue as well.
And while this isn’t a defence of Hamas by any stretch, it’s also worth remembering that Israel started the Six Day war and that’s when they invaded and occupied Gaza and the West Bank in the first place. The reason they gave was that it was a pre-emptive strike which was something I believed and accepted for a very long time. Now I have my doubts.
Why have you put the words "the blame" in italics? Is that because no one has no one has actually said they blame Hamas and that's only your interpretation?
And the question is in what form should that stance be taken.
Moral relativism is no morality at all. We should live by moral values regardless of what others do.
You don’t supply arms to countries or organisations that target and kill British citizens!!!!
get in the real world rather than thinking you are the moral and social conscience for it. I doubt that the aid workers were deliberately targetted because they were British citizens.
spoken like a true Brit! One rule for them one rule for us. Sometimes rules aren't worth the paper they are written on. Ask Russia.
Indeed, only because they were aid workers.
I don't understand what you are trying to say. International rules are for all. The fact that terrorist organisations don't adhere to them is to be expected. That does not absolve them from responsibility for their actions.
Israel has apologised and said it was a grave mistake.
you talked of international law and rules. I'm not sure Russia is yet classified as a terrorist organisation but they seem to have no problem breaking the rules of law.
I didn’t say they were targeted because they were British citizens. But they were certainly targeted and they were certainly killed. And they were certainly British.
And you believe them? Even though your previous posts have suggested not? In post 26 you thought they’d been “murdered”.
Have i suggested it was not a mistake? I certainly hope it was a mistake. But going back months to when 7/10 happened there was always likely gonna follow that there would be a big PR war going on as well. A war in which Israel would always struggle in because of the consequences of Hamas actions on 7/10 and Israels very heavy response.
Well you’ve said both that the aid workers were “murdered” but you’re also quoting the Israeli response that it was a “grave mistake” ie an accident. So it’s not clear what you’re saying frankly.
I have to disagree, if the operator believed it was a legitimate target then it was not murder.
that's fine,
You're last remark is a very cheap shot but from you it's no surprise. You just love to think you're the moral and social conscience of the world. In true typical left wing style.
Getting away with something doesn't excuse it. Moral obligations are precisely that - obligations.
I was just recalling your lectures about the sanctity of Remembrance weekend when you objected to a march that was calling for a ceasefire. A position by the way that almost all of even the most ardent Netanyahu apologists now agree with.