As opposed to the people on the right who have run the country over the last 14 years and absolutely destroyed it, making it divided against itself for the benefit of a few, many of whom are based abroad and contribute nothing by way of taxes.
I'm no Britain hater. Those left wing posters I've come across on here aren't either.
of course you deflect. You think you sit in judgement of everything that is wrong with this country and love nothing more than believing you think you are morally correct on everything. A typical leftie attitude.You think because of that you have some sort of moral superiority. Whereas really you're just a nobody whose opinion counts for fuck all just like mine.
Ah so, you've got such a great mind you've got a solution to the Israel problem.
but you love to sit in judgement on what you think is morally correct.
Why has no-one attempted to answer this post of mine. Few hours now.,
And you never pass judgement on anything? Or take any interest in politics?
This whole thread has been hijacked by yourself, whilst bizarrely saying you've no interest in politics. You claim you're not interested "get on with your life, I can't do anything about it" is your repeated cry. You then resort to unwarranted slurs to posters about being lefty and/or anti semitic. Let's cut the pretence.
Israel is a major producer of arms already. It won't be defenseless if we stop supplying them.
Well what would you say if someone came along and said we should ignore the fact that Putin invaded Russia (in the same way you want to ignore the fact Israel started the Six Day War and invaded and occupied Gaza)? Instead we should select a moment in the war when Ukraine struck at Russia (say the moment their missile hit the building killing dozens/hundreds of Russian soldiers). And then say “Right. This act entitles Russia to do whatever it wants. To indiscriminately bomb, starve and kill children. And Zelensky is the one responsiblr everything we do”.
It's where we failed in Northern Ireland, with hindsight, we should've collectively punished the entire Catholic population with murder and starvation for the atrocities carried out by the IRA after the murder of Mountbatten.
Actually, according to the logic of some on here, what we should’ve done was supply arms to the IRA which they could then have used to kill British soldiers and civilians. After all, they were going to get the arms from somewhere so it might well have been us.
Ah yes. The true patriots are those who want to continue supplying arms to a country that has just “murdered” 3 British civilians/veterans.
Good point, if Thatcher had directly armed the IRA then she may well have have completely cut off the funding from NORAID.
I'd suggest that a major conflict going on that is grabbing the worlds attention is a bit more than politics. The boring British politcs of red v blue, left v right that so many of you love to indulge yourselves in on a daily basis.
In fact it was almost certainly anti British not to allow the arms manufacturers that opportunity.
brilliant distortion and deflection. Well done. Well, no not really it's a load of bollux. The IRA deliberately targetted British soldiers, citizens an politicians. Can you state the IDF deliberately targetted those 3 British citizens knowing that they were travelling in the vehicles. The IRA never apologised for thier crimes of murder, they chose more to celebrate. On the other hand the IDF have said it was a "grave error", which it was.. Absolute shame on you and the others for making such a comparison. Disgusting.
More manufactured outrage because you’ve been shown up as a Plastic Patriot.
Don't we all?
I have to say that you are extremely naive if you take the statements issued by the Israeli government and the IDF at face value.
let's put a few things right eh. Of course i condemn these killings/murders. I condemn the killing of all innocent citizens caught up in this conflict which was started by Hamas on 7/10 when the calculatedly entered Israel with the sole intention of murdering as many people of all ages as they could.
what does that even mean? You lefties seem to think you're the social and moral conscience for the world and love nothing more than condemning this country for it's "sins" of the past.
Okay that's much clearer.
It's as political as it gets.
The reality of the current position is that the IDF is intent on wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the Earth. Being surrounded by potential enemies does not give any nation a free hand to operate beyond the law. Those nations that do, need to be brought to account. That is why NATO members are arming Ukraine in their war with Russia.
Funny definition of Britain haters that includes those upset at the murder of British citizens who served in the military
was it pre-determined and planned that the IDF would deliberately and intentionally murder/kill 3 british citizens. some of you seem to think it was whereas i would point out that there is a massive difference between what was intentioned by this IDF missile strike and the deliberate intentions of Hamas on 7/10.
it's not the same o;d boring british politics that keeps some of you going on a daily basis on here. Far from it!
I guess it's much easier to sit in a state of moral superiority and express luxury beliefs than it is to address difficulty and complicated questions.
Yes it was - by targeting the aid vehicles it was clear that foreign civilians would be killed
No-one is making a moral equivalence between October the 7th and these murders apart from you. And you are only doing that because you are desperate to find something which will justify these IDF murders.
Except I answered it yesterday.
They deliberately targeted the vehicles. They were happy with the collateral damage of 7 overseas nationals if it meant they killed one HAMAS gunman. Except there wasn't one.
that's nonsense, i haven't justified these killings at all.
not really. Do you think Israel could survive without arms plus the very thought that other nations are aware that they have support. Let's face it, attacks on Israel are increasing, anti- semitic attacks in this country have risen to off the scale and you seemingly want the world to turn against them. Perhaps you want to isolate them as a pariah state and leave them at the mercy of all those hostile nations that surround them.
You might not think that. Quite a few people reading your output are getting a very different impression. You and Jaffa are incapable of responding to criticism of Israel without a "yes, but what about 7 October" before you start. It's the kind of argument a child deploys when it gets caught doing something wrong.
One thing that no-one has mentioned so far is that is that Israel has its own arms industry that makes very sophisticated weaponry.
yes I'm sure they are well equipped but as you say and was the point of my post which i thought people avoided was the consequences of losing not only our arms contract but our support too. The same with the USA. Stating the obvious as you say that they need our support and backing. And yes, they have made a major error with the killing of 3 British citizens. But is that enough to isolate them and leave them to the mercy of all it's hostile neighbours. My answer is no but maybe you and one or two others seem to think yes.
That really is the point, isn't it? The two options were they wanted to kill aid workers, or they saw the death of aid workers as acceptable to get a Hamas member. Neither is lawful under International law, no matter how much Jaffa, 20's and Lost try to prevaricate.
The logical progression of that is that Israel can do whatever they like. You surely cannot think that?
that's your assumption of my logical progression. You are wrong.
OK, so what would it take for you to withdraw your support?
sorry oh pompous one. So events of 7/10 should be wiped off the table and forgotten about! Well yep, that seems to be the case with some.
"withdraw my support"? Well i certainly wouldn't phrase it anything like that. Firstly, I'll say that my "support" counts for nothing. The only people who know my views are those who read them on here. It's the people or countries who have a leading role to play who need to take a firmer grip on the situation. But let me make it clear, that is not by withdrawing our arms deal we have with Israel. Israel have crossed a line but to some extent you could say because they've done that, they now need our backing more than ever. And I'm talking about the nation of Israel, not Netanyahu. I expect he'll be toast at the next election. A solution needs to be found to bring this war to an end and both Hamas and Israel need to find the answers. Remember, whilst all these killings are happening there are still hostages being held in Gaza.
…perhaps we should only sell them to nice people ……
Israel produce 85% of their own arms and ammunition, so I suggest they'd cope.
So, your support is unequivocal, as they have crossed the line we need to back them even more?
yes, i could have perhaps worded part of my post a bit better. It's not a case of backing them even more, ie give them more weapons which is perhaps what you were implying I meant. It's a case of not deserting them which it clearly seems some of you want to do.
missing my point! If the USA and other key supporters withdrew their support, do you think the attacks on Israel would increase? Are some missile attacks still getting through despite some being shot down by the US? Would a land invasion of Israel by surrounding hostile nations be a more likely event knowing that Israel was left standing alone.
Israel is more than capable in looking after itself. Anyway, an arms embargo is a different call than a total shunning, as you probably know.