Rail strikes

fcblackpool said:
Yep.

Wage inflation would be a massive problem.

But you can't blame them when they see billions of profits with energy companies, government taking the piss about rules and generally being pooped on from a very high place.

Big problem for me is those that don't have a voice. They are likely to fall further behind and don't have a voice.
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Exactly. As Monty Python said, there's trouble at t'mill
 
Wonder how they would feel if all the teachers go in strike (which could happen) and they have to stay at home to be with the kids and won’t get paid - or all the supermarket staff or lorry drivers all strike . The list could go On and on . My wife got a 2% pay rise - but she didn’t go on strike - tough times unfortunately
 
*clicks thread*

*has utter lack of faith in human solidarity, society or emotional intelligence reinforced by 'well I didn't go on strike' bollocks, wonders how these wankers will react when UNISON go on strike soon, wonders if trying to defend people wanting better conditions and pay against these ** morons is worth the bother?*

*decided no, fucks off*
 
seasideone said:
It’s not a game though is it …. Peoples lives are being screwed up this week because of the new NUM!

The reality is you know the answer as Unions are stuck in the past.

…and you can’t admit it however true it is, because once you do, you have shown the RMT to be what they are 👎

If I am wrong - prove it by showing a Union who are happy to let tech replace staff 👍
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No.
 
seasideone said:
It’s not a game though is it …. Peoples lives are being screwed up this week because of the new NUM!

The reality is you know the answer as Unions are stuck in the past.

…and you can’t admit it however true it is, because once you do, you have shown the RMT to be what they are 👎

If I am wrong - prove it by showing a Union who are happy to let tech replace staff 👍
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You're on the other side of the world so have no skin in this game, having made it clear you're not coming back. Sorry, not your issue.
 
poolseasider said:
Just seen the party political broadcast by Mick Lynch RMT boss impartial my backside when they start spewing out the word Tory you know it's fuck all to do with wages just followed by their sheep members.
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What on earth gave you any cause to think that this is about impartiality? The workers are fighting for decent pay, decent conditions, jobs under threat, lack of investment and decent safety for rail passengers. They are doing this against a Government who won't even talk to them but who bend over backwards to find Government contracts for their mates in big business - regardless of whether those contracts are valid or appropriate.
 
Newholland said:
The cost of living crisis is affecting everybody, we are all finding it harder to make ends meet. The RMT calling their members out on strike is, without doubt, going to make things a dam site worse for millions of people. Compared to some people, rail workers are poorly paid ... to others very well payed ... the longer the dispute... the less the public will have sympathy. My concerns are, it could work in the governments favour with those blue tinged floating voters reverting to type...I’ll be watching Labours handling of this closely.
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A fair point about the politics - so will I. However, the language coming out of Downing Street is all about Union Barons (nonsense and very 1970s) and they won't even talk to the unions. Strike action is very much the last straw so it's taken a lot of failure to reach this point. Unfortunately, Network Rail cannot promise the workers anything because they don't control the funding, the Government do - and they won't negotiate. The politics lies with Johnson and his cronies.
 
Wizaard said:
You're on the other side of the world so have no skin in this game, having made it clear you're not coming back. Sorry, not your issue.
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…I have lots of skin in the game - very naive to think otherwise - but you don’t know my full story and you never will 👍
 
seasideone said:
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👍

You are asked a question and realise you can’t answer with anything that supports your argument,

Now you throw insults around.

Laughable left as always 👍👍👍👍

You are ok until the real world is in play.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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Although you appear to have ignored Wiz's question above about how a private company gives money to nurses and not it's European shareholders?
 
seasideone said:
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👍

You are asked a question and realise you can’t answer with anything that supports your argument,

Now you throw insults around.

Laughable left as always 👍👍👍👍

You are ok until the real world is in play.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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I think you're emoji laden post is directed at an audience of one and it aint me. Meanwhile, others are contributing to an intelligent thread.
 
It’s amazing how the government/ media can turn the working classes against each other. If other people were as organised as the rail workers, perhaps they’d reap the benefits too. All us plebs should just keep quiet & be grateful we’ve got jobs, even if some of the wages are not worth getting off the bog for. Let’s just leave it to the nice caring Conservative MP’s to level up 😂who fully understand that getting close to the breadline means down to your last few £millions.
 
Tangman74 said:
Wonder how they would feel if all the teachers go in strike (which could happen) and they have to stay at home to be with the kids and won’t get paid - or all the supermarket staff or lorry drivers all strike . The list could go On and on . My wife got a 2% pay rise - but she didn’t go on strike - tough times unfortunately
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Was she in a union?
 
A little more detail for you.

Virgin trains are now owned by Trenitalia.

German state railway Deutsche Bahn operates four British railways including the London overground and the Grand Central line to Sunderland.

Seven UK railways are operated or partly-operated by Dutch state railway Nederlandse Spoorwegen (NS), including Merseyrail, Scotrail and the West Midlands Railway.

Seven railways are operated fully or partly by French state railway SNCF, including Transport for Wales and the Thameslink.

Just wondering when they are handing over money to nurses?

Can anyone who doesn't want the workers to defend their right to use withdrawal of labour as a last resort explain their position without quoting the Government spin.
 
Going back to those who will be affected, it was noticeable that the London Underground was mentioned as being on strike tomorrow, but no mention was or has been made of the bus drivers on strike in vast parts of Yorkshire. Their dispute has been going on for a number of weeks and the strike is continuing indefinitely.

Some of these people want to try and exist on a pension.
 
I have total sympathy and support for care workers who are incredibly low paid and do a critical job in tough conditions. I’ve similar sympathy and support for lower paid nhs workers such as porters or other vital lower paid workers.

With regards to the train workers I think the cleaners should be paid more. Perhaps that could be funded by redistribution of funds from away from those train workers who are currently on very generous above average salaries. In other words give the highly paid a pay cut and give it to the lower paid. Yes there of course should be a differential to reflect skill levels etc but the difference shouldn’t be so vast. I’m sure the union and some of their harder left members would agree with this principle of redistributing wealth. (But in reality the unions have presided over this wage differential and done little to help the cleaners.) So what we see now in this industry is a culture of greed and protectionism.

Well I for one hope it soon changes for the better. I’m completely against this strike due to damage and inconvenience it will cause for innocent members of the public and small business owners. It’s selfish. It’s self indulgent. It’s uncalled for. It’s unnecessary. It’s self defeating.
 
Malced said:
I have total sympathy and support for care workers who are incredibly low paid and do a critical job in tough conditions. I’ve similar sympathy and support for lower paid nhs workers such as porters or other vital lower paid workers.

With regards to the train workers I think the cleaners should be paid more. Perhaps that could be funded by redistribution of funds from away from those train workers who are currently on very generous above average salaries. In other words give the highly paid a pay cut and give it to the lower paid. Yes there of course should be a differential to reflect skill levels etc but the difference shouldn’t be so vast. I’m sure the union and some of their harder left members would agree with this principle of redistributing wealth. (But in reality the unions have presided over this wage differential and done little to help the cleaners.) So what we see now in this industry is a culture of greed and protectionism.

Well I for one hope it soon changes for the better. I’m completely against this strike due to damage and inconvenience it will cause for innocent members of the public and small business owners. It’s selfish. It’s self indulgent. It’s uncalled for. It’s unnecessary. It’s self defeating.
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Blaming train drivers for the pay of cleaners doesn't make sense. It's more likely the result of outsourcing of contracts and the bidding processes which sees the worker themselves the last thing to be considered. Long gone are the days when everyone working on the railway worked for 'British Railways'

In fact, here is the RMT themselves acting for improved pay and conditions for cleaners.

 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Although you appear to have ignored Wiz's question above about how a private company gives money to nurses and not it's European shareholders?
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You could do it through the cost the government charge the train operators, the tax system or simply an extra charge that they pay if it’s an automated line.

Just to add it’s a bit of a silly question anyway as all nurses and the public sector is paid from the tax on the private sector and people anyway.

So doing it is nothing new.
 
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poolseasider said:
Every single one of us needs a pay rise because of inflation especially the low paid, unable to work and pensioners etc not a train driver on 58k.
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Train drivers are not on strike. This is an EMT strike.

However, I agree everyone needs a payrise. Perhaps a Union could help those needing a rise?
 
seasideone said:
Average salaries….

£58k Train Driver
£41k Average person on the railways
£31k Nurse

Automate the railways, sack as many as you can and use the money saved to pay nurses more 👍
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seasideone said:
Average salaries….

£58k Train Driver
£41k Average person on the railways
£31k Nurse

Automate the railways, sack as many as you can and use the money saved to pay nurses more 👍
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Once automated, there still need to be cleaners who will still be paid crap wages. There still needs to be track maintenance who still deserve payrises on line with inflation. There will still need to be train fitters, there still needs to. E signallers, there still needs to be platform staff/customer servicese etc etc etc
 
seasideone said:
Let them go on strike, tech will replace them - although I wish they wouldn’t go on strike.

Reality is we are in the midst of a digital revolution.

It’s a bit like sending kids up chimneys and kids down the mine - or even working in a cotton mill - the World moves on.

The reality is those jobs are going whether it is today or tomorrow.

Unions tend to try and hang onto the past and stop change - the reality is the World does not work that way.

So of course they can ask their Unions for help, but it will still end the same way.
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Matesrates said:
Ah bless, poor things, up until November I worked in a bank as a customer service advisor, I was responsible for peoples money, sorting out fraud, dealing with bereavements, power of attorney and many other sensitive issues. My salary was £18,600 full time, so forgive me if I have no sympathy for ticket inspectors on £33k
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You have just described the perfect reason to join a union. You were clearly underpaid and a strong union would possibly have helped to have been paid more.
Why should ANYBODY who works full time be subject to a pay cut whether you were underpaid or not. Aim your anger above these people as it should not be a race to the bottom.
 
Novelli86 said:
You have just described the perfect reason to join a union. You were clearly underpaid and a strong union would possibly have helped to have been paid more.
Why should ANYBODY who works full time be subject to a pay cut whether you were underpaid or not. Aim your anger above these people as it should not be a race to the bottom.
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I was in a union, Unite.
 
seasideone said:
Just a realist!!

The railways have been supported through Covid by about £1000 per household and the majority probably don’t ever use it - well not to that level anyway!

Passengers are massively down and obviously fares are - but still the Unions are asking for huge increases.

I think they are taking the …..

Whatever you think - the majority of the railway employees will be replaced by tech.

- it’s not if, it’s when!
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Trains are absolutely rammed up North. Don't believe all you read.
 
Tangman74 said:
Wonder how they would feel if all the teachers go in strike (which could happen) and they have to stay at home to be with the kids and won’t get paid - or all the supermarket staff or lorry drivers all strike . The list could go On and on . My wife got a 2% pay rise - but she didn’t go on strike - tough times unfortunately
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Luckily their union negotiated conditions which would allow pay for such occasions. 👍
 
Novelli86 said:
Trains are absolutely rammed up North. Don't believe all you read.
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Don’t let facts get in the way of your argument……

Passenger rail usage January to March 2022​

Date published: 16 Jun 2022
Date next published: 06 Oct 2022

Key results​

  • A total of 990 million rail passenger journeys were made in Great Britain over the last year (1 April 2021 to 31 March 2022). This was more than double the 388 million recorded last year. It equates to 56.9% of 1,739 million journeys made two years ago.
  • Passenger Revenue totalled £5.9 billion this year. This was nearly three times the £2.0 billion (when using November 2021 prices) generated last year. It is equal to 54.0% of the £11.0 billion generated two years ago.
  • The 819 million journeys made this year using ordinary tickets equate to 71.7% of usage two years ago. By contrast, the 167 million season ticket journeys equate to 28.4% of usage two years ago.

Passenger rail usage | ORR Data Portal

dataportal.orr.gov.uk
 
Malced said:
I have total sympathy and support for care workers who are incredibly low paid and do a critical job in tough conditions. I’ve similar sympathy and support for lower paid nhs workers such as porters or other vital lower paid workers.

With regards to the train workers I think the cleaners should be paid more. Perhaps that could be funded by redistribution of funds from away from those train workers who are currently on very generous above average salaries. In other words give the highly paid a pay cut and give it to the lower paid. Yes there of course should be a differential to reflect skill levels etc but the difference shouldn’t be so vast. I’m sure the union and some of their harder left members would agree with this principle of redistributing wealth. (But in reality the unions have presided over this wage differential and done little to help the cleaners.) So what we see now in this industry is a culture of greed and protectionism.

Well I for one hope it soon changes for the better. I’m completely against this strike due to damage and inconvenience it will cause for innocent members of the public and small business owners. It’s selfish. It’s self indulgent. It’s uncalled for. It’s unnecessary. It’s self defeating.
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20220620_120646.jpg
These wages I assume you mean?
 
Novelli86 said:
Once automated, there still need to be cleaners who will still be paid crap wages. There still needs to be track maintenance who still deserve payrises on line with inflation. There will still need to be train fitters, there still needs to. E signallers, there still needs to be platform staff/customer servicese etc etc etc
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Of course their will be people still needed.

Just not as many

- cleaners can be replaced with tech.
- signallers can be replaced by tech
- more automation in manufacturing and fitting
- platform staff will be replaced in time
- customer services is in the process of being replaced
- Engineers will be replaced by tech

The list goes on….

Unions do not like technological progress and never have, unfortunately for them being stuck in the 70s is going to prove rather costly - apart from the leaders of the Union - obviously - as they will still be getting paid 👍
 
seasideone said:
Don’t let facts get in the way of your argument……

Passenger rail usage January to March 2022​

Date published: 16 Jun 2022
Date next published: 06 Oct 2022

Key results​

  • A total of 990 million rail passenger journeys were made in Great Britain over the last year (1 April 2021 to 31 March 2022). This was more than double the 388 million recorded last year. It equates to 56.9% of 1,739 million journeys made two years ago.
  • Passenger Revenue totalled £5.9 billion this year. This was nearly three times the £2.0 billion (when using November 2021 prices) generated last year. It is equal to 54.0% of the £11.0 billion generated two years ago.
  • The 819 million journeys made this year using ordinary tickets equate to 71.7% of usage two years ago. By contrast, the 167 million season ticket journeys equate to 28.4% of usage two years ago.

Passenger rail usage | ORR Data Portal

dataportal.orr.gov.uk
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Read the whole post again.

Rammed up North, forget London which I believe has taken the biggest dip.

For example there around 750 passengers on board a train I was on last Wednesday on route to Manchester. That is very much normal.
 
Novelli86 said:
Read the whole post again.

Rammed up North, forget London which I believe has taken the biggest dip.

For example there around 750 passengers on board a train I was on last Wednesday on route to Manchester. That is very much normal.
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I was on one from Manchester a few weeks ago and it was empty.

You can’t base your arguments on a few train journeys, especially when this is a National strike.

Overall revenue is massively down and the railways are losing money - yet people want a massive increase.

It’s madness!!!!!
 
seasideone said:
In your opinion it’s a poor reply.

The world moves on, most unions do not.

Please give me an example of ANY Union promoting tech when it is to replace jobs??

You might not like it, but the World changes.

Sooner they replace as many people as possible on the railway with automation the sooner they cannot hold people to ransom.
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Aslef have agreed to tech 👍
 
seasideone said:
I was on one from Manchester a few weeks ago and it was empty.

You can’t base your arguments on a few train journeys, especially when this is a National strike.

Overall revenue is massively down and the railways are losing money - yet people want a massive increase.

It’s madness!!!!!
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It's many many journeys 👍
 
Matesrates said:
Ah bless, poor things, up until November I worked in a bank as a customer service advisor, I was responsible for peoples money, sorting out fraud, dealing with bereavements, power of attorney and many other sensitive issues. My salary was £18,600 full time, so forgive me if I have no sympathy for ticket inspectors on £33k
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So it's a race to the bottom is it?
 
911_Kirky said:
Quite old this, but sums the railways and the unions up. More money to the NHS staff for me!
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Its not a competition between workers. That's exactly the attitude that has this government clapping like seals and thinking the average person is a bellend in equal measure. If the NhS needs more money, it's got fuck all to do with a network rail maintenance worker and everything to do with a government that has been in charge for 12 years. They are creating deliberate division and some seem to be falling for it.
 
seasideone said:
The stats do not back you up though!

Again - don’t let the facts get in the way of your arguments!
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The national stats maybe. The numbers up North are clearly different. Trains are as busy as they every were if not busier. Absolutely carnage on many trains.
 
seasideone said:
Again - don’t let facts get in the way of your argument….

Driverless trains a nonsensical distraction for a rudderless government | ASLEF

ASLEF has hit back at the Prime Minister's suggestion that driverless trains should be a condition of the funding settlement for Transport for London this autumn.
aslef.org.uk aslef.org.uk
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aslef.org.uk

European Rail Traffic Management System | ASLEF

ERTMS is a scheme to improve interoperability of trains throughout Europe and improve signalling by creating a single European standard.
aslef.org.uk aslef.org.uk

Here is a link to Aslef promoting it too 👍
 
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