2 MPs in trouble today

L

Lost Seasider

Well-known member
Ministerial aide sacked after call for Israel-Gaza ceasefire

A ministerial aide has been sacked from his government role after calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.

Downing Street said Paul Bristow had made comments which "were not consistent with the principles of collective responsibility".
Meanwhile on the Labour benches: Labour suspends MP after speech at pro-Palestinian rally

Andy McDonald has been suspended as a Labour MP, after the party said he had made "deeply offensive" comments relating to the Israel-Gaza war.

The MP for Middlesbrough used the phrase "between the river and the sea" in a speech at a pro-Palestine rally.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Ministerial aide sacked after call for Israel-Gaza ceasefire

A ministerial aide has been sacked from his government role after calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.

Downing Street said Paul Bristow had made comments which "were not consistent with the principles of collective responsibility".
Meanwhile on the Labour benches: Labour suspends MP after speech at pro-Palestinian rally

Andy McDonald has been suspended as a Labour MP, after the party said he had made "deeply offensive" comments relating to the Israel-Gaza war.

The MP for Middlesbrough used the phrase "between the river and the sea" in a speech at a pro-Palestine rally.
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Cracks appearing

Just wait until the political party of Islam gets going

Will probably half the labour vote in London
 
Lost Seasider said:
Ministerial aide sacked after call for Israel-Gaza ceasefire

A ministerial aide has been sacked from his government role after calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.

Downing Street said Paul Bristow had made comments which "were not consistent with the principles of collective responsibility".
Meanwhile on the Labour benches: Labour suspends MP after speech at pro-Palestinian rally

Andy McDonald has been suspended as a Labour MP, after the party said he had made "deeply offensive" comments relating to the Israel-Gaza war.

The MP for Middlesbrough used the phrase "between the river and the sea" in a speech at a pro-Palestine rally.
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Andy McDonald is a right old curmudgeon and rarely has anything positive to say.

But reading that, I'm not convinced he's done that much wrong; it's a bit of a stretch to say what he's said in this instance is anti-Semitic.
 
TSSeasider said:
Andy McDonald is a right old curmudgeon and rarely has anything positive to say.

But reading that, I'm not convinced he's done that much wrong; it's a bit of a stretch to say what he's said in this instance is anti-Semitic.
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The Chief Whip disagrees with you.

Might this be an over-reaction based on what was actually said, possibly, but as an MP you surely have to understand the potential meaning of "from the river to the sea", so to say it in any context is at best incompetent, and potentially much worse.
 
Lost Seasider said:
The Chief Whip disagrees with you.

Might this be an over-reaction based on what was actually said, possibly, but as an MP you surely have to understand the potential meaning of "from the river to the sea", so to say it in any context is at best incompetent, and potentially much worse.
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I recognise that the Labour Whip say I'm wrong; but I think in the fullness of time, he will be exonerated as although that one line is a bit tactless, he is absolutely referring to a two state solution.

The other thing in play here is he is a bit of a dinosaur and typical Scottish Labour trade unionist type with lots and lots of words and comrade this that and the other - they may take the opportunity to get a more modern facing Labour candidate for the election?
 
"From The River To The Sea" - part of a chant calling for the destruction of the state of Israel and genocide of the Jewish race

Whatever McDonald says now is just him backtracking on his Anti-Semitic Hate Speech for which he should be arrested & prosecuted
 
April13th1970 said:
"From The River To The Sea" - part of a chant calling for the destruction of the state of Israel and genocide of the Jewish race

Whatever McDonald says now is just him backtracking on his Anti-Semitic Hate Speech for which he should be arrested & prosecuted
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“Until all people, Israelis and Palestinians, from the river to the sea, can live in peaceful liberty”.

How can that possibly be described as hate speech?
 
Mexboroseasider said:
“Until all people, Israelis and Palestinians, from the river to the sea, can live in peaceful liberty”.

How can that possibly be described as hate speech?
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There you go again with those pesky facts. Interesting to note that many of those on social media who were once keen to promote 'All Lives Matter' have seemingly changed their minds. Can't quite get my head round why a child's life is more important based upon which area they live in.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
But you haven't answered the question
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As I said on the other thread, a Ceasefire wouldn’t be a permanent solution. And it wouldn’t remove Hamas. It would be intended to save the lives of innocent children who’ll otherwise be killed.

These are real children we’re talking about by the way. Not fictional. Real children who are being bombed and hit with artillery shells as I type.
 
southshorepool said:
There you go again with those pesky facts. Interesting to note that many of those on social media who were once keen to promote 'All Lives Matter' have seemingly changed their minds. Can't quite get my head round why a child's life is more important based upon which area they live in.
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Yeah. I’ve just been playing trains with my grandson, thinking to myself how lucky he is to be born in the U.K. Rather than Gaza.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
As I said on the other thread, a Ceasefire wouldn’t be a permanent solution. And it wouldn’t remove Hamas. It would be intended to save the lives of innocent children who’ll otherwise be killed.

These are real children we’re talking about by the way. Not fictional. Real children who are being bombed and hit with artillery
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So Hamas win and continue with the terrorist attacks and the whole sorry thing starts again

Nope Hamas need destroying
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
So Hamas win and continue with the terrorist attacks and the whole sorry thing starts again

Nope Hamas need destroying
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I have no problem with Hamas being destroyed.

Now you tell me how you do that without killing innocent people?

Because your call for Gaza to be “flattened” and the statement that you have no sympathy for people who live there, is not an acceptable position for the vast majority of people.

As I’ve said. These are real children who are being killed.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I have no problem with Hamas being destroyed.

Now you tell me how you do that without killing innocent people?

Because your call for Gaza to be “flattened” and the statement that you have no sympathy for people who live there, is not an acceptable position for the vast majority of people.

As I’ve said. These are real children who are being killed.
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Hamas are responsible for the people of Gaza not me
 
Mexboroseasider said:
These are real children we’re talking about by the way. Not fictional. Real children who are being bombed and hit with artillery shells as I type.
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Would that be the Israeli children who are being murdered by Hamas/Iranian rocket attacks too?

Or do they not matter in the predominantly anti-Semitic worldview of the left?

Unfortunately, given Hamas is commited to genocide of the Jewish race and the complete destruction of Israel, I doubt they'd honour any ceasefire until they run out of rockets, which is unlikely given Iran's supplying them to them
 
Lost Seasider said:
The Chief Whip disagrees with you.

Might this be an over-reaction based on what was actually said, possibly, but as an MP you surely have to understand the potential meaning of "from the river to the sea", so to say it in any context is at best incompetent, and potentially much worse.
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Blimey, I'm agreeing with Lost! He would have been well aware of the original meaning of the phrase. It was a mischievous and bloody stupid thing to say.
 
April13th1970 said:
Would that be the Israeli children who are being murdered by Hamas/Iranian rocket attacks too?

Or do they not matter in the predominantly anti-Semitic worldview of the left?

Unfortunately, given Hamas is commited to genocide of the Jewish race and the complete destruction of Israel, I doubt they'd honour any ceasefire until they run out of rockets, which is unlikely given Iran's supplying them to them
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Obviously Israeli children deserve as much protection as Palestinian children. A ceasefire would achieve that, although I agree Hamas can’t be trusted.

Meanwhile 80% of Israelis blame Netanyahu for the 7th October terror attacks. And he knows a ceasefire would only allow that criticism to grow.

news.sky.com

Few trust Netanyahu in Israel and he will struggle to convince West of 'axis of evil' threat

A recent poll said 80% of Israelis think Netanyahu should be held responsible for the 7 October terror attacks. He is not supported by many in the security establishment and although calls for him to resign are small right now in the middle of a war, he knows that moment is coming.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
One thing that the supporters of Israel seem to be ignoring is that Netanyahu tacitly supported Hamas before their terrorist atrocity.
By keeping the Palestinian people divided, the land grabs could continue and there was no possibility of a two state solution, this suited Netanyahu.
Anyone who doesn't believe this needs to look at the Israeli press and this also explains why Netanyahu is so unpopular in Israel now.

www.timesofisrael.com

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from
www.timesofisrael.com www.timesofisrael.com


etc. etc.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Obviously Israeli children deserve as much protection as Palestinian children. A ceasefire would achieve that, although I agree Hamas can’t be trusted.

Meanwhile 80% of Israelis blame Netanyahu for the 7th October terror attacks. And he knows a ceasefire would only allow that criticism to grow.

news.sky.com

Few trust Netanyahu in Israel and he will struggle to convince West of 'axis of evil' threat

A recent poll said 80% of Israelis think Netanyahu should be held responsible for the 7 October terror attacks. He is not supported by many in the security establishment and although calls for him to resign are small right now in the middle of a war, he knows that moment is coming.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
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I think we can agree that Likud needs to be out of government and preferably replaced by Yesh Atid but not sure how that can happen with the next Israeli general election not scheduled until 2025
 
Andy knows he is on his way out of the Parliamentary party tbh. It’s a statement. Might explain why he has been wearing a Palestinian scarf recently. He is a good man, principled and willing to stand up for what he believes.
 
Any person who mentions the word "ceasefire" without offering a solution to eradicate Hamas is asking Israelis to sit and wait for the next time the Iran-funded extreme Islamic Nazi-like organization that is determined to destroy Israel and kill all Jews will attack;

Each and every one of them is complicit in supporting terror and the extermination of the State of Israel

Including ** Corbyn and his army of followers on this site
 
The Israelis have learnt nothing from the Yanks or British in the last 20 years in that you can't destroy an ideology barring killing every last person in Gaza. Israel has every right to defend itself, not so sure about genocide and ethnic cleansing.
I'm not sure what the solution is, if there is one. I can't see it ever being resolved. There's no plan for what happens afterwards either, and as always vacuums get filled, usually by something worse.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Any person who mentions the word "ceasefire" without offering a solution to eradicate Hamas is asking Israelis to sit and wait for the next time the Iran-funded extreme Islamic Nazi-like organization that is determined to destroy Israel and kill all Jews will attack;

Each and every one of them is complicit in supporting terror and the extermination of the State of Israel

Including ** Corbyn and his army of followers on this site
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It's just a never ending campaign then, stop Hamas and another pops up somewhere, meanwhile thousands of innocents die on both sides leading to even more ill feeling, the cycle never ever stops.
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
The Israelis have learnt nothing from the Yanks or British in the last 20 years in that you can't destroy an ideology barring killing every last person in Gaza. Israel has every right to defend itself, not so sure about genocide and ethnic cleansing.
I'm not sure what the solution is, if there is one. I can't see it ever being resolved. There's no plan for what happens afterwards either, and as always vacuums get filled, usually by something worse.
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Yep, we learned this in Northern Ireland, the South Africans understood it 30 years ago, even kids TV sci fi shows know it...

'You just want cruelty to beget cruelty. You're not superior to people who were cruel to you. You're just a whole bunch of new cruel people. A whole bunch of new cruel people, being cruel to some other people, who'll end up being cruel to you.'
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
The Israelis have learnt nothing from the Yanks or British in the last 20 years in that you can't destroy an ideology barring killing every last person in Gaza. Israel has every right to defend itself, not so sure about genocide and ethnic cleansing.
I'm not sure what the solution is, if there is one. I can't see it ever being resolved. There's no plan for what happens afterwards either, and as always vacuums get filled, usually by something worse.
Click to expand...

I suspect one of their main objectives (other than kill as many Hamas activists as possible), is to destroy the network of tunnels, both under Gaza City, and across the borders, which make it hard for the Israelis to target Hamas directly.

After that, presumably a massive 70km long wall, a ditch a mile deep to prevent tunnelling plus other anti-tunnelling measures, presumably some kind of floating barrage at sea, and after that presumably a total ban on anyone going into or out of Gaza, and a total blockade, with all supplies being purchased from approved Israeli sources and inspected regularly before being sent via some kind of highly secure delivery system.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I suspect one of their main objectives (other than kill as many Hamas activists as possible), is to destroy the network of tunnels, both under Gaza City, and across the borders, which make it hard for the Israelis to target Hamas directly.

After that, presumably a massive 70km long wall, a ditch a mile deep to prevent tunnelling plus other anti-tunnelling measures, presumably some kind of floating barrage at sea, and after that presumably a total ban on anyone going into or out of Gaza, and a total blockade, with all supplies being purchased from approved Israeli sources and inspected regularly before being sent via some kind of highly secure delivery system.
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A ghetto then?
 
Lost Seasider said:
The Chief Whip disagrees with you.

Might this be an over-reaction based on what was actually said, possibly, but as an MP you surely have to understand the potential meaning of "from the river to the sea", so to say it in any context is at best incompetent, and potentially much worse.
Click to expand...
Still eh, at least he hasn't molested anyone and carried on in his role
 
It would appear quite a number of Labour front benchers are not towing the party line, yet are not being suspended unlike the Tory chap.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I suspect one of their main objectives (other than kill as many Hamas activists as possible), is to destroy the network of tunnels, both under Gaza City, and across the borders, which make it hard for the Israelis to target Hamas directly.

After that, presumably a massive 70km long wall, a ditch a mile deep to prevent tunnelling plus other anti-tunnelling measures, presumably some kind of floating barrage at sea, and after that presumably a total ban on anyone going into or out of Gaza, and a total blockade, with all supplies being purchased from approved Israeli sources and inspected regularly before being sent via some kind of highly secure delivery system.
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I ask again, there's a border with Egypt. Presumably the Israelis can't control that, so why does Israel closing its border with Gaza impact so deeply? I just don't get it.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Any person who mentions the word "ceasefire" without offering a solution to eradicate Hamas is asking Israelis to sit and wait for the next time the Iran-funded extreme Islamic Nazi-like organization that is determined to destroy Israel and kill all Jews will attack;

Each and every one of them is complicit in supporting terror and the extermination of the State of Israel

Including ** Corbyn and his army of followers on this site
Click to expand...
So you fully support Sir Keir in his refusal to call for a ceasefire then?
 
How can hammas be defeated when their HQ is underneath the biggest hospital in Gaza, laden with explosives and other arms. Hammas control that hospital, and doctors and nurses are terrified of them.
 
Wizaard said:
So you fully support Sir Keir in his refusal to call for a ceasefire then?
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What is Labour's policy on a ceasefire?

Sir Keir might not have called for one personally, but many of his front bench have, as well as many other prominent Labour figures, all without sanction so far.

Who is espousing the true Labour position? Sir Keir, or those who are calling for a ceasefire.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
One thing that the supporters of Israel seem to be ignoring is that Netanyahu tacitly supported Hamas before their terrorist atrocity.
By keeping the Palestinian people divided, the land grabs could continue and there was no possibility of a two state solution, this suited Netanyahu.
Anyone who doesn't believe this needs to look at the Israeli press and this also explains why Netanyahu is so unpopular in Israel now.

www.timesofisrael.com

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from
www.timesofisrael.com www.timesofisrael.com


etc. etc.
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I understand your post but my view is that Hamas need to be destroyed and Israel need to elect a centralist Government.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Okay, in my dictionary, an extremist is anyone who writes:



2 days after the biggest massacre of Jews since the Second World War.

It seems to me that your definition includes anyone who supports Israel's right to defend themselves, or even to exist.
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From google:

a person who holds extreme political or religious views, especially one who advocates illegal, violent, or other extreme action.

There is nothing extreme about stating the Palestinian state should be free from illegal occupation by the State of Israel. Supporting the illegal occupation of another state by an apartheid regime who consistently ignores international law and murders civilians is much closer to the definition.
 
Sven said:
From google:

a person who holds extreme political or religious views, especially one who advocates illegal, violent, or other extreme action.

There is nothing extreme about stating the Palestinian state should be free from illegal occupation by the State of Israel. Supporting the illegal occupation of another state by an apartheid regime who consistently ignores international law and murders civilians is much closer to the definition.
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As I said, you're effectively calling for the destruction of Israel, and all the Jews who live there, if you don't think that's extreme then so be it.
 
Wizaard said:
I ask again, there's a border with Egypt. Presumably the Israelis can't control that, so why does Israel closing its border with Gaza impact so deeply? I just don't get it.
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Although the border is with Egypt the Israelis have approval over who or what goes over the border at the Rafah Crossing.
 
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