A new low in politics.

Curryman

Curryman

Well-known member
I refer to the labour adverts now being published prior to the local elections. Is this the sort of Politics we now want?

Lord David Blunkett, who served as home secretary under Tony Blair and has sat in the House of Lords since 2015, said it was "deeply offensive to get down in the gutter to fight politics in this way".
Calling for the advert to be withdrawn, he said it was "grotesque and offensive", and it was "absurd" to argue that the prime minister should "take personal responsibility for the sentencing policies of judges".

Lib Dem MP Munira Wilson said: "I was pretty disgusted by it when I saw it last night. This is not an attack ad my party would use."

Scottish National Party MP John Nicolson said the post was "nauseating" and that it "cheapened and debased" politics.
Judges and magistrates, rather than the prime minister of the day, are responsible for handing out sentences.

The figures Labour highlighted cover the period since 2010, five years before Mr Sunak entered Parliament. He did not become prime minister until October last year.

Sir Keir was DPP from 2008 to 2013, meaning the figures also cover three of the years he was in the post.
 
Curryman said:
I refer to the labour adverts now being published prior to the local elections. Is this the sort of Politics we now want?

Lord David Blunkett, who served as home secretary under Tony Blair and has sat in the House of Lords since 2015, said it was "deeply offensive to get down in the gutter to fight politics in this way".
Calling for the advert to be withdrawn, he said it was "grotesque and offensive", and it was "absurd" to argue that the prime minister should "take personal responsibility for the sentencing policies of judges".

Lib Dem MP Munira Wilson said: "I was pretty disgusted by it when I saw it last night. This is not an attack ad my party would use."

Scottish National Party MP John Nicolson said the post was "nauseating" and that it "cheapened and debased" politics.
Judges and magistrates, rather than the prime minister of the day, are responsible for handing out sentences.

The figures Labour highlighted cover the period since 2010, five years before Mr Sunak entered Parliament. He did not become prime minister until October last year.

Sir Keir was DPP from 2008 to 2013, meaning the figures also cover three of the years he was in the post.
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Yes very depressing.
I think Labour is starting a war it cannot win with this, and may come to regret it.
They have however obviously decided that just sitting still and taking the hits has not worked for them in the past and that they need to try something different.
 
L’étranger said:
Hardly a new low, the tories have been doing this sort of thing for years.
Labour have clearly decided that taking the moral high ground, as they did in the last two elections, didn’t work so why not play the tories at their own game.
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I am not saying you are wrong but can you point to any Tory literature from head office that is this low - as I can’t remember any?

The important thing here is head office and endorsed by the leader.
 
Some of you need to get your head out of your arse if you think this is something new. The Tories have been at this for ages using social media to attack opponents. Diane Abbot, Corbyn and Starmer including an accusation that Starmer protected paedophiles such as Jimmy Saville.
From a personal point of view, I don't like the ads as it places Labour firmly in the political gutter where Tories permanently live. They need to be better than that.
 
Absolute own goal from Starmer, who was DPP in 2012 when the sentencing guidelines were introduced. Now Labour is said to be gearing up to publish a new online ad accusing Rishi Sunak of effectively decriminalising rape. For a party with no credible policies but relying on the the wrongdoings of government ministers, their delving into anti-government accusations that voters simply won't accept might turn out to be a political gamble too far.

Andrew Fisher, former policy adviser to Jeremy Corbyn, described the ads as "ugly". The Criminal Bar Association say Labour must stop using sentencing issues as a political football.
 
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southshorepool said:
Some of you need to get your head out of your arse if you think this is something new. The Tories have been at this for ages using social media to attack opponents. Diane Abbot, Corbyn and Starmer including an accusation that Starmer protected paedophiles such as Jimmy Saville.
From a personal point of view, I don't like the ads as it places Labour firmly in the political gutter where Tories permanently live. They need to be better than that.
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Up he pops😂Next you’ll be telling us your going through a mid life crisis and you’ve got a mad crush on Dianne Abbott 😁❤️
 
Starmer had really gone down in my estimation. He’s probably going to win next year but things like this question his judgement. Perhaps labour should get rid and put in Andy Burnham who would make a much better PM.
 
It is just gutter politics .I am no fan of the tories but whatever happened to reasoned debate. We sadly have the politicians that we have , it was not long ago conservatives were arguing Starmer had protected paedophiles. The labour party should be concentrating on issues that really matter to their constituents such as the cost of living crisis .
 
L’étranger said:
There was the 2019 video of Starmer that was doctored, the rebranding of their Twitter account as a ‘fact checking site’ and during one period 88% of their Facebook adverts were fact checked as being misleading. And more recently there was the Jimmy Saville nonsense.
When you factor in Tory backers such as the Daily Mail running 13 pages of its newspaper attacking the opposition leader, I guess it’s understandable why Labour have changed their approach.
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The big problem is they are just not very good at it are they?
Loads of areas where they could have effectively skewered Sunak and his Government, but they come up with something illogical and full of holes that won’t hold water.
As already posted it is also on a subject that could very easily be used to fire back at Starmer.
 
Personally I`m not in favour of taking the low road just because your opponent does, but to call it a `new low` is a wild exaggeration.

Boris Johnson promoting Nadine Dorries to a cabinet position holds that ignominy...
 
seasideone said:
I am not saying you are wrong but can you point to any Tory literature from head office that is this low - as I can’t remember any?

The important thing here is head office and endorsed by the leader.
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Tory literature highlighted the failure of Starmer as DPP to prosecute Savile despite it not being on his watch. Does that count?

Saying 10 million Turks were on their way over here is another. Are they here yet?

They shouldnt stoop to this but why should the Tories be unchallenged on their lies?
 
Notice Lanour hasnt given the figures for when they were in Govt have they ?? ( and no i dont know ehat they are) but would be nice to see the comparison
 
On the subject of politics, whatever happened to Cat in St Albans?
He would no doubt be supporting the actions of the Labour Party and lecturing us about the underhandedness that has been going on in politics since time immemorial.
And which, for once, I would probably agree with him.
 
I can't stand negative campaigns and the labour one is pathetic. I don't agree with the OP, this is similar to Tory campaigns, unfortunately it appeals to a certain type of voter and all political parties seem to be lurching to the right in an attempt to garner the ukip votes
 
Eternaloptimist said:
On the subject of politics, whatever happened to Cat in St Albans?
He would no doubt be supporting the actions of the Labour Party and lecturing us about the underhandedness that has been going on in politics since time immemorial.
And which, for once, I would probably agree with him.
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He's doing a 35 year stretch for treason. 😜🇬🇧
 
It’s very surprising Labour has behaved in this way. They’re well ahead in the polls.
They claim to be above sleaze. They try to take the moral high ground on most subjects.
So why risk all that and seemingly shoot themselves in the foot with these gutter level adverts?
Well, you’ll note the ads are not targeting the Tory’s as such - but rather they’re targeting Sunak.
Labour are going after him personally because they’re worried that he is doing quite well and his approval ratings have been increasing.
By contrast, Starmer doesn’t have the popularity he should have as leader of an opposition party forging ahead in the polls. He personally doesn’t poll very well.
So Labour are worried. But to address those worries by targeting Sunak personally is the wrong way to go.
There’s plenty of valid arguments and criticisms they could levy at the Government, so it’s an own goal to instead go the toxic and disingenuous way they’ve gone.
We remember Jo Cox and how there was a joint agreement to be less toxic within politics. Well, sorry Labour but you’re down there in the gutter and there’s no excuse for it.
Don’t get me wrong, we’ve seen this type of gutter rhetoric from the Tory’s too, and that’s rightly been called out at the time.
So it’s wrong to try and defend these Labour ads by pointing to past similar behaviour by the Tory’s.
If you have true standards and principles you have to be consistent in your criticism and condemnation, no matter what the source is.
Labour have doubled-down and said there’s much more to come. Well more fool them, and more fool anyone who defends it.
 
Wizaard said:
Tory literature highlighted the failure of Starmer as DPP to prosecute Savile despite it not being on his watch. Does that count?

Saying 10 million Turks were on their way over here is another. Are they here yet?

They shouldnt stoop to this but why should the Tories be unchallenged on their lies?
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I do not like either - but these seem to be a new low AND it leaves Starmer open as well .

Gutter politics - I hate it all.
 
Eternaloptimist said:
On the subject of politics, whatever happened to Cat in St Albans?
He would no doubt be supporting the actions of the Labour Party and lecturing us about the underhandedness that has been going on in politics since time immemorial.
And which, for once, I would probably agree with him.
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Last seen promoting Chinese-style lockdowns in mid-2021 🙄
 
Shock and outrage from the rwnjs.

Still they've had very little to be happy about for a long time now.

BTW I regret Labour copying the Tories on this.

I like the Michelle Obama view - when they go low, you go high.
 
Ollygon said:
Shock and outrage from the rwnjs.

Still they've had very little to be happy about for a long time now.

BTW I regret Labour copying the Tories on this.

I like the Michelle Obama view - when they go low, you go high.
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No fear cos the LWNJs come to the rescue. 🤫🤔😉👍
 
seasideone said:
I am not saying you are wrong but can you point to any Tory literature from head office that is this low - as I can’t remember any?

The important thing here is head office and endorsed by the leader.
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** Tories on here getting all snowflakey is hilarious really.
 
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I'm in two minds. His statement reads rather callously but, as others have said...when you play against shisters, you have to play their way.
 
seasideone said:
Very poor indeed - do any of our normal lefties wish to defend this?
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I'm a leftie but this where we are now at.

The conservative party has moved right to fill the hole left by UKIP/EDL/BNP and Labour have moved right to fill the centre right hole that the Tory party has left.

Using these type of tropes is unsurprising now that they've moved to the right.
 
I don't like it TBH.
It looks like it might be a warning to the Cons that Labour will go low (if not lower) if they have to.
But it's not good IMO, and that ad. doesn't even make sense.

However, there was no thread on here when Bravaman told out-right lies last week about paedophile gangs and the Pakistani community. What she said contradicted statistics produced be her own department and is also likely to incite racial hatred. It was the language of the far right from a senior government minister. For me, personally, that was worse because it will inevitably end up with someone innocent getting hurt. So not a new low IMO, but an indication of where we are politically atm.

But yes it is very bad, and is there any need when Labour are between 20-25% ahead and likely to win back many Scottish seats.
 
I think this personal attack on RS is because Sir Keir is upset that despite a massive poll lead for Labour, Keirs popularity seems below the Prime Minister. The General Election is predicted for Autumn Next year and nothing but an overall majority for Labour(not a coalition) would be seen as success we live in interesting 🤔 times
 
seasideone said:
I am not saying you are wrong but can you point to any Tory literature from head office that is this low - as I can’t remember any?
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Johnson, when PM and at the dispatch box, accused Starmer of not prosecuting Jimmy Savile - exactly the same sort of thing as in the ad. Of course, Johnson had immunity from prosecution for his slander as he was speaking in the HoC.
 
Wizaard said:
In what way?
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So let’s get this straight.

You think Rishi does not think Peado’s should be locked up - you are aware he is not a judge and the figures quoted are from 2010, and he didn’t get into Parliament until 2015?

The mind boggles how some people think.

….Starmer was also head of the CPS for this time so you could say somewhat of an own goal by Labour.
 
seasideone said:
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So let’s get this straight.

You think Rishi does not think Peado’s should be locked up - you are aware he is not a judge and the figures quoted are from 2010, and he didn’t get into Parliament until 2015?

The mind boggles how some people think.

….Starmer was also head of the CPS for this time so you could say somewhat of an own goal by Labour.
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I've said I don't think Labour should stoop to the Tories' gutter level, but the stats are from 2010 to now, so under Tory control. That's not lies.

The man at the top isn't necessarily responsible, but he is accountable. That's how the leadership works.
 
Wizaard said:
I've said I don't think Labour should stoop to the Tories' gutter level, but the stats are from 2010 to now, so under Tory control. That's not lies.

The man at the top isn't necessarily responsible, but he is accountable. That's how the leadership works.
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I know more about leadership than most and of course you are accountable - but not before you got the job!

So you think Rishi does not think Peado’s should be locked up?
 
seasideone said:
I know more about leadership than most and of course you are accountable - but not before you got the job!

So you think Rishi does not think Peado’s should be locked up?
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Based on 4,500 not going to jail, it would appear not in some circumstances.

I'm sure he thinks most should be jailed, as would we all. Blaming sentencing guidelines from 2012 isn't exactly a great defence. That's a decade of not doing anything to change it, if they're that bothered by it.

Meanwhile Braverman says Pakistani/British grooming gangs are the major source of grooming and exploitation despite her own Department's figures saying nothing of the sort. Deliberately fomenting racial tensions to pander to racists in her own party is far more of an issue than this, in my opinion.
 
Wizaard said:
Based on 4,500 not going to jail, it would appear not in some circumstances.

I'm sure he thinks most should be jailed, as would we all. Blaming sentencing guidelines from 2012 isn't exactly a great defence. That's a decade of not doing anything to change it, if they're that bothered by it.

Meanwhile Braverman says Pakistani/British grooming gangs are the major source of grooming and exploitation despite her own Department's figures saying nothing of the sort. Deliberately fomenting racial tensions to pander to racists in her own party is far more of an issue than this, in my opinion.
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Whether it’s a bigger issue or not is somewhat irrelevant to this discussion….and she is a deplorable woman using gutter politics as well.

The problem with the majority of people on the left is they generally will not condemn their own party, whatever they do - where as I am right of centre and would happily get rid of most politicians in this government!!!!
 
Wizaard said:
Meanwhile Braverman says Pakistani/British grooming gangs are the major source of grooming and exploitation despite her own Department's figures saying nothing of the sort. Deliberately fomenting racial tensions to pander to racists in her own party is far more of an issue than this, in my opinion.
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It's slightly more complicated that that. There's police forces who didn't record the ethnicity of the offender's and others who lumped in Asian as a catch all - so it's difficult to get accurate figures.
 
I immediately thought of the Tony Blair eyes when this came up.

I'm no fan of this type of politics as it undermines the whole concept of politicians being there as public representatives - but to say Labour have sunk lower than the Tories is crap.

I'm not sure it will make a blind bit of difference to the electability of either any of them.
 
Starmer says he stands by every word of the ads.
So you have a former head of the CPS, who is a barrister, that stands by false and misleading wording which from a legal perspective is borderline libellous and lies. It’s certainly not the truth.

Be in no doubt, he doesn’t stand behind these words full square from a position of strength. We all know this isn’t his doing. It’s his back room team who are worried about Richi Sunak.

They’re worried because he’s starting to turn the Tory party around from their low point with Liz Truss.

Sunak does appear prime ministerial, and has set out 5 key objectives, whereas Starmer snipes from the sidelines and doesn’t really have a policy other than to criticise.

This attempt to make Starmer look tough is ridiculous. He’s simply not a big-hitter and doesn’t have the gravitas.

He actually comes over as weak and insipid. Time and again many of the neutrals and swing voters, will say they don’t know what he stands for. He doesn’t come over as a person of the people but rather there’s a disconnect.

This isn’t a criticism of him merely because he’s Labour. Tony Blair connected brilliantly with the electorate.

Gordon Brown didn’t connect as well, but you certainly knew what he stood for. And 100% he was a man of principle.

Even though I’m no fan of Corbyn, it was clear what he was offering and that he was passionate and committed in his beliefs.

But Starmer is none of the above. So we have his back room team scratching their head and trying to mould him into something he isn’t.
That’s a futile task. He’s simply the wrong person to lead Labour.

That’s doesn’t mean he won’t get to be PM, but it’s not a given.

I’d have had more respect for him if he’d condemned the ads and said they were a mistake.
At least that would have been consistent with his stance of standards and morals etc.
But now he’s undermined that one thing which I could have attributed to him. He was for a better type of politics and above the gutter tactics. Not anymore. He stands by every word. Yeah right.
 
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