A plea from Rishi Sunak

Or it could be said staff will quit if they aren't allowed the flexibility to work from home.

Protectionism of property investment I suspect too but many of our pensions will be invested in property...
 
Delfino said:
Or it could be said staff will quit if they aren't allowed the flexibility to work from home.

Protectionism of property investment I suspect too but many of our pensions will be invested in property...
Click to expand...
We've been told that in future we'll be operating a hybrid system whereby we'll mostly be working from home except for occasional all team meetings.
 
We will be given the choice of hybrid or fully office based. You can’t force anyone to work from home post pandemic in my office because there has to be a change in contract to do that.
I will continue to work in the office and know of some who are desperate to come back.
And also some that will be making up all kinds of excuses not to come back even in a hybrid nature. They won’t have a choice though if employers want them in.
As for quitting either way, that’s a personal choice but I can’t see many choosing that option in the majority of cases.
 
Lala said:
We will be given the choice of hybrid or fully office based. You can’t force anyone to work from home post pandemic in my office because there has to be a change in contract to do that.
I will continue to work in the office and know of some who are desperate to come back.
And also some that will be making up all kinds of excuses not to come back even in a hybrid nature. They won’t have a choice though if employers want them in.
As for quitting either way, that’s a personal choice but I can’t see many choosing that option in the majority of cases.
Click to expand...
In the current economic climate no one is going to be throwing in a job because they can't work from home, or because they want to work in an office. When all this is over, the jobs market will be tight.
 
Lala said:
We will be given the choice of hybrid or fully office based. You can’t force anyone to work from home post pandemic in my office because there has to be a change in contract to do that.
I will continue to work in the office and know of some who are desperate to come back.
And also some that will be making up all kinds of excuses not to come back even in a hybrid nature. They won’t have a choice though if employers want them in.
As for quitting either way, that’s a personal choice but I can’t see many choosing that option in the majority of cases.
Click to expand...
Only thing I miss is the 'office politics and life' absolute heaven at times. Like living on Coronation st.
 
Just a nod to employers to try get their employees back to work so they spend money buying lunches and stuff. Sounds like Tory bollocks to me. Hmmm, work from home or spend lots of money communting into the city to sit at a desk and do the same as you did at home yeah ok Suni Boy .. 🙄 I might quit if the ask me back...
 
Last edited:
The fool who brought eat out to spread it about. The one thing that he got right was marrying a billionaires daughter, you've got to question the motives of a 39 year old who is wealthy beyond belief but went into politics. Normal people would be having a proper session on a tropical beach, the sad sap is teetotal which tells me a lot.
 
Wizaard said:
We've been told that in future we'll be operating a hybrid system whereby we'll mostly be working from home except for occasional all team meetings.
Click to expand...
That'll work well for me.More time spouting nonsense on here 😆
 
Lala said:
We will be given the choice of hybrid or fully office based. You can’t force anyone to work from home post pandemic in my office because there has to be a change in contract to do that.
I will continue to work in the office and know of some who are desperate to come back.
And also some that will be making up all kinds of excuses not to come back even in a hybrid nature. They won’t have a choice though if employers want them in.
As for quitting either way, that’s a personal choice but I can’t see many choosing that option in the majority of cases.
Click to expand...

I think the "want to go back" and the "don't want to go back" will balance some of this out. Not all of it - but some. And maybe they could allow colleagues to manage their own time being in and out of the office between themselves? Who knows.

To be honest I've never felt more in control of my work / home life balance. It's been a blessing for both my parenting and looking after sick elderly parents. The thing people that don't have this opportunity might not know is that I am working WAY more hours than I used to. School runs for example used to be the end of my working day. Now they are a 20 minute break and I can crack on when I get home and work until late into the evening. Appointments for my parents or visiting my dad to take him a simple newspaper were a discussion and goodwill for my absence - now another 20 minute trip and back to it.

I don't "not" want to go back to work, and I miss a lot of people - but it's been a Godsend for me right now.
 
Macseasider said:
I think the "want to go back" and the "don't want to go back" will balance some of this out. Not all of it - but some. And maybe they could allow colleagues to manage their own time being in and out of the office between themselves? Who knows.

To be honest I've never felt more in control of my work / home life balance. It's been a blessing for both my parenting and looking after sick elderly parents. The thing people that don't have this opportunity might not know is that I am working WAY more hours than I used to. School runs for example used to be the end of my working day. Now they are a 20 minute break and I can crack on when I get home and work until late into the evening. Appointments for my parents or visiting my dad to take him a simple newspaper were a discussion and goodwill for my absence - now another 20 minute trip and back to it.

I don't "not" want to go back to work, and I miss a lot of people - but it's been a Godsend for me right now.
Click to expand...
There’s no disputing it works for many people and there’s no disputing that many will be more productive. There isn’t any argument there.
On a personal level it’s very much horses for courses.
Back to the op though, the choice for many moving forward will be down to the employer and what their contract states. And I still doubt that many will be quitting their job because they are made to go back into the office or because they are made to continue working from home. Jobs are precious commodities these days, more so than ever.
 
My experience of the two lockdowns would give some credence to the argument for working in the office or at least a hybrid version.
During the first lockdown we were instructed not to attend unless we were working in the hub for vulnerable/key worker children. I think I mentioned previously that our Head insisted that initially this facility was staffed by younger members of staff. When more volunteers were needed I and many others could not wait to offer to help out.
In the second lockdown the position was different, school systems to mitigate risk had long been established, and after clarification to check the situation we were informed that it was a choice whether we worked from home or from school. For me that resulted in about a 50/50 split, personally I found that I worked more efficiently in school, I preferred the routine of the drive to work in the morning and the value of seeing friends and colleagues even in a limited capacity was invaluable to my (and according to our Head) and many others mental well being.
Teaching is a job that in essence is so much more effective when face to face, but I would think that for work where this is less essential, my experience would suggest that a hybrid system would offer sufficient flexibility,.Certainly I think that the notion of "chaining" people to a rigid work time protocol would seem to have been blown out of the water for good.
 
Quitting jobs you'd have to be insane at the mo M&S in Victoria hospital had over 900 apply for a part time shop worker job and a booking agency had over 150 for an office junior and half those who applied where totally over qualified and it's only going to get worse.

A lot of offices just won't open again and that will be another nail in the coffin for town centre's and businesses dotted around where people go to work which will affect us all as people joining the dole queue suppliers go under and buildings lie empty.

It's going to be a tough few years ahead with those at the bottom of the wage pyramid affected the most especially young adults as if they haven't had it tough enough over these last 12 months hopefully us that are older won't change our habits too much will go for a coffee,sandwich,pint,meal out shop in centre's and not just on-line etc to support them.
 
poolseasider said:
Quitting jobs you'd have to be insane at the mo M&S in Victoria hospital had over 900 apply for a part time shop worker job and a booking agency had over 150 for an office junior and half those who applied where totally over qualified and it's only going to get worse.

A lot of offices just won't open again and that will be another nail in the coffin for town centre's and businesses dotted around where people go to work which will affect us all as people joining the dole queue suppliers go under and buildings lie empty.

It's going to be a tough few years ahead with those at the bottom of the wage pyramid affected the most especially young adults as if they haven't had it tough enough over these last 12 months hopefully us that are older won't change our habits too much will go for a coffee,sandwich,pint,meal out shop in centre's and not just on-line etc to support them.
Click to expand...
I will certain be doing the latter. I don’t want our towns, cities and communities to become ghost towns because people rarely leave the home anymore.
I think some flexibility is a good thing, as mentioned above. But the reality is, be careful what you wish for. We are social beings and society is all the better for it in my opinion.
 
Lala said:
There’s no disputing it works for many people and there’s no disputing that many will be more productive. There isn’t any argument there.
On a personal level it’s very much horses for courses.
Back to the op though, the choice for many moving forward will be down to the employer and what their contract states. And I still doubt that many will be quitting their job because they are made to go back into the office or because they are made to continue working from home. Jobs are precious commodities these days, more so than ever.
Click to expand...
I'd agree Lala and for most people things will return to the pre-pandemic situation.
I do think though that being able to WFH will be an appeal to many when they do change jobs. I work in the IT industry and there are a lot of short term (1-2) year contracts and staff move around a lot. I know lots of people pre-pandemic who would choose contracts where they had the option to WFH for a couple of days a week. I expect that this will become more of an attraction. We've just recruited some workers and we were able to choose further afield on the premise that they would only need to be in the office occasionally.

What is certain is that the technology is so much better and the pandemic has forced many companies to improve. I could work remotely before but during the last year things improved dramatically which has gone hand in hand with fibre broadband too in the last few years. There are few technical limitations any more, the debate is more of a social and interaction one for many. For me personally, I've really enjoyed working from home, been more productive and going forwards I expect to do more of it with perhaps a weekly visit to the office. I'm in the fortunate position to be able to walk away if it doesn't suit me.

I think Rishi's concerned and hence his statement. Why is he concerned? Perhaps he has a personal investment interest (cynically maybe) but I think it's more likely lobbying for the office retail sector. Many pension funds invest in property and if their values drop, you can imagine there would be some challenges. Our office is owned by a pension fund and we have a 10 year lease. That said, if the office was ever vacated permanently, it would make prime house building land. Perhaps, ultimately, a better solution than the erosion of our green spaces.
 
Macseasider said:
I think the "want to go back" and the "don't want to go back" will balance some of this out. Not all of it - but some. And maybe they could allow colleagues to manage their own time being in and out of the office between themselves? Who knows.

To be honest I've never felt more in control of my work / home life balance. It's been a blessing for both my parenting and looking after sick elderly parents. The thing people that don't have this opportunity might not know is that I am working WAY more hours than I used to. School runs for example used to be the end of my working day. Now they are a 20 minute break and I can crack on when I get home and work until late into the evening. Appointments for my parents or visiting my dad to take him a simple newspaper were a discussion and goodwill for my absence - now another 20 minute trip and back to it.

I don't "not" want to go back to work, and I miss a lot of people - but it's been a Godsend for me right now.
Click to expand...
Feel exactly the same. Stuff like getting an MOT or to get a prescription used to stress me out as I work away from where I live. I'm definitely more productive and less stressed. As you say, it's the flexibility. I can do the thing for an hour, then work an extra hour. Simple.

I'm hoping to be able to permanently work in a hybrid form and if I'm not allowed I'm going to kick off a bit because after years of being told by managers that productivity matters, to be told it doesn't will be an hypocrisy I'm not prepared to tolerate as it will demonstrate that really, they're only interested in control, not the quality of work or as they frequently claim, well-being of their employees.

I am very happy to go to work when there's a purpose or reason but being away from people chatting absolute shit, bitching, moaning, having little office psychodramas and all that is 100% stone cold certainly a better environment for me to get stuff done well.
 
poolseasider said:
Quitting jobs you'd have to be insane at the mo M&S in Victoria hospital had over 900 apply for a part time shop worker job and a booking agency had over 150 for an office junior and half those who applied where totally over qualified and it's only going to get worse.

A lot of offices just won't open again and that will be another nail in the coffin for town centre's and businesses dotted around where people go to work which will affect us all as people joining the dole queue suppliers go under and buildings lie empty.

It's going to be a tough few years ahead with those at the bottom of the wage pyramid affected the most especially young adults as if they haven't had it tough enough over these last 12 months hopefully us that are older won't change our habits too much will go for a coffee,sandwich,pint,meal out shop in centre's and not just on-line etc to support them.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I'm really conscious of trying to buy stuff in town ATM. Even if it's just getting from Argos as opposed to Amazon. Problem is, the high street is already so run down, there's loads of stuff you just can't get in person anymore and that's a real shame.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
'Please don't let those poor offshore property developer conglomerates lose all their rental income! I honestly don't have any vested interest in this! Won't someone think of Pret!'

www.bbc.co.uk

People may quit if forced to work from home, Rishi Sunak warns

The chancellor urges firms not to scrap offices altogether, warning employees may leave if they do.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
What a remarkable coincidence of timing. Just when it’s reported in the FT that “commercial tenants in the U.K. have paid just a fifth of the rent they owe for the latest quarter, raising concerns about whether businesses will be able to pay arrears built up during the pandemic”.
 
td53 said:
Agreed. I'm really conscious of trying to buy stuff in town ATM. Even if it's just getting from Argos as opposed to Amazon. Problem is, the high street is already so run down, there's loads of stuff you just can't get in person anymore and that's a real shame.
Click to expand...
There does seem to be some sort of "blame" for the high street's demise being attached to home workers within the media. The high street as we know it was already dying a death long before Covid struck and started decades ago with the supermarket and then business parks. Now it's online shopping which is not going away.
 
td53 said:
Feel exactly the same. Stuff like getting an MOT or to get a prescription used to stress me out as I work away from where I live. I'm definitely more productive and less stressed. As you say, it's the flexibility. I can do the thing for an hour, then work an extra hour. Simple.

I'm hoping to be able to permanently work in a hybrid form and if I'm not allowed I'm going to kick off a bit because after years of being told by managers that productivity matters, to be told it doesn't will be an hypocrisy I'm not prepared to tolerate as it will demonstrate that really, they're only interested in control, not the quality of work or as they frequently claim, well-being of their employees.

I am very happy to go to work when there's a purpose or reason but being away from people chatting absolute shit, bitching, moaning, having little office psychodramas and all that is 100% stone cold certainly a better environment for me to get stuff done well.
Click to expand...
www.google.co.uk

Call centre staff to be monitored via webcam for home-working ‘infractions’

Exclusive: Teleperformance, which employs 380,000 people, plans to use specialist webcams to watch staff
www.google.co.uk www.google.co.uk

Sadly HW doesn’t necessarily mean less control.
 
Macseasider said:
There does seem to be some sort of "blame" for the high street's demise being attached to home workers within the media. The high street as we know it was already dying a death long before Covid struck and started decades ago with the supermarket and then business parks. Now it's online shopping which is not going away.
Click to expand...
Yep. In fact,working from home, I've been more likely to go shopping physically as, without a two hour commute, I've got more time to go to the butcher's, the bakers or the candlestick makers, instead of just ordering online.

The death of the high street is partly a symbol of the dearth of time people have. Back in the day, lots of households were single worker households. Now we often live in households where two people work and the idea of wandering from shop to shop as my gran used to do is long gone.

Keeping a household was a job in itself for her. Now your phone lets you do a lot of what she used to do in 20/30 hours in literally minutes and cheaper.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
www.google.co.uk

Call centre staff to be monitored via webcam for home-working ‘infractions’

Exclusive: Teleperformance, which employs 380,000 people, plans to use specialist webcams to watch staff
www.google.co.uk www.google.co.uk

Sadly HW doesn’t necessarily mean less control.
Click to expand...
Yeah, read that. At the end of it all, judge the productivity of workers by all means, but that's draconian, absurd, dehumanising and a great example of why we need to stop thinking so much about ** macro aggression, policing use of the word 'love' and culture wars and organise against actual tangible oppression conducted solely in the name of profit and control.

Though I did note in the article that actually, the system didn't apply to Britain in the form the graun had screamed in its headline. I am quite tired of the guardian tbh. It's all headline and often the content is poor. There's good writing in it sometimes but it's like wading through reverse daily mail stuff and when push comes to shove, it's a liberal democrat rag really that hasn't got much to really say, more comfortable in identity politics than really calling for meaningful change.

Sorry mex, I digressed somewhat! In short, I agree!
 
td53 said:
Yeah, read that. At the end of it all, judge the productivity of workers by all means, but that's draconian, absurd, dehumanising and a great example of why we need to stop thinking so much about ** macro aggression, policing use of the word 'love' and culture wars and organise against actual tangible oppression conducted solely in the name of profit and control.

Though I did note in the article that actually, the system didn't apply to Britain in the form the graun had screamed in its headline. I am quite tired of the guardian tbh. It's all headline and often the content is poor. There's good writing in it sometimes but it's like wading through reverse daily mail stuff and when push comes to shove, it's a liberal democrat rag really that hasn't got much to really say, more comfortable in identity politics than really calling for meaningful change.

Sorry mex, I digressed somewhat! In short, I agree!
Click to expand...
I agree about the Guardian by the way. There are more and more columnists I just skip over these days. Difficult to decide on an alternative though. We get the FT at the weekend which is probably the best. Plus the Times a couple of days a week, just in the interest of RW balance.

Back to HW. It seems to me as if some of the most vocal antis are middle managers. It’s almost as if they are terrified that the longer workers aren’t in the office, the more likely it is that senior management will realise they (the middle managers) actually contribute sweet FA to productivity. And their little fiefdoms will fall apart.
 
Lala said:
I will certain be doing the latter. I don’t want our towns, cities and communities to become ghost towns because people rarely leave the home anymore.
I think some flexibility is a good thing, as mentioned above. But the reality is, be careful what you wish for. We are social beings and society is all the better for it in my opinion.
Click to expand...
We're taking on 13,500 work coaches for Jobcentres which gives some clue as to how the labour market is going.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I agree about the Guardian by the way. There are more and more columnists I just skip over these days. Difficult to decide on an alternative though. We get the FT at the weekend which is probably the best. Plus the Times a couple of days a week, just in the interest of RW balance.

Back to HW. It seems to me as if some of the most vocal antis are middle managers. It’s almost as if they are terrified that the longer workers aren’t in the office, the more likely it is that senior management will realise they (the middle managers) actually contribute sweet FA to productivity. And their little fiefdoms will fall apart.
Click to expand...
That is spot on. I've found in my role that increasingly, senior staff just bypass my manager (who doesn't seem to particularly *do* anything) and come to me directly. That's what tech does, for better or worse - flattens hierarchies and it's the middle manager who gets squashed. I like that, it's just more efficient. I don't want my managers job, I just want to do my job in the least time possible and all the middle manager does is present a barrier as far as I can see.

It's middle managers expressing baseless statements like "I just think our meetings 'work better' face to face" and such in my small experience.

Yeah, I don't get the FT regularly but I've toyed with it as it seems the nearest thing to an objective source of just 'the news' - someone said to me once that 'because all the traders etc read it, they can't afford to print bullshit as if they did, they'd lose their core readership who need accuracy' which makes a lot of sense to me.
 
Macseasider said:
I think the "want to go back" and the "don't want to go back" will balance some of this out. Not all of it - but some. And maybe they could allow colleagues to manage their own time being in and out of the office between themselves? Who knows.

To be honest I've never felt more in control of my work / home life balance. It's been a blessing for both my parenting and looking after sick elderly parents. The thing people that don't have this opportunity might not know is that I am working WAY more hours than I used to. School runs for example used to be the end of my working day. Now they are a 20 minute break and I can crack on when I get home and work until late into the evening. Appointments for my parents or visiting my dad to take him a simple newspaper were a discussion and goodwill for my absence - now another 20 minute trip and back to it.

I don't "not" want to go back to work, and I miss a lot of people - but it's been a Godsend for me right now.
Click to expand...
More or less the same here, I can bugger off for a couple of hours and just make it up later.
 
td53 said:
Yeah, read that. At the end of it all, judge the productivity of workers by all means, but that's draconian, absurd, dehumanising and a great example of why we need to stop thinking so much about ** macro aggression, policing use of the word 'love' and culture wars and organise against actual tangible oppression conducted solely in the name of profit and control.

Though I did note in the article that actually, the system didn't apply to Britain in the form the graun had screamed in its headline. I am quite tired of the guardian tbh. It's all headline and often the content is poor. There's good writing in it sometimes but it's like wading through reverse daily mail stuff and when push comes to shove, it's a liberal democrat rag really that hasn't got much to really say, more comfortable in identity politics than really calling for meaningful change.

Sorry mex, I digressed somewhat! In short, I agree!
Click to expand...

I've not really read the Grauniad in years, mainly for the reasons you state, it's usually half arsed lazy and elitist.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
I've not really read the Grauniad in years, mainly for the reasons you state, it's usually half arsed lazy and elitist.
Click to expand...
I suppose if you believe the so called “Culture Wars” is largely a manufactured heap of BS designed to distract us from real issues (which I do), then it makes as much sense to avoid a good percentage of what the Guardian produces in the same way as it is to avoid most of the output from the Mail, Express etc.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I suppose if you believe the so called “Culture Wars” is largely a manufactured heap of BS designed to distract us from real issues (which I do), then it makes as much sense to avoid a good percentage of what the Guardian produces in the same way as it is to avoid most of the output from the Mail, Express etc.
Click to expand...
They've just gone down the rabbit hole of self confirmation, as have 95% of the media these days, everyone knows their likely audience and that the readers are more or less looking for validation in their own beliefs backed up by their twitter feed or will look elsewhere so they play to the crowd, just like the Mail, Times etc..


I'm struggling to think of anywhere that doesn't do this really, apart from the BBC who then get criticised because they might not pander to an individuals views.
 
The office was great 20 years ago when workload was less so you could have a laugh, buggered off at 5 and that was that. Fast forward 20 years office's are full of stressed people (the commute starts it) and with technology forget the finish at 5 it's email's 24/7. Honestly couldn't think of anything worse than going into an office for 7/8 hours.
 
Let's not forget the environmental benefits, the air has been clearer this year than anytime I can remember, I was on the dunes last week and you could see the Carnedds with a bit of Snowdon behind as clear as day, I've never seen that from St Annes ever, the most you'd get before was a hazy blob whereas now you can pick out summits.
 
Shandypants said:
The office was great 20 years ago when workload was less so you could have a laugh, buggered off at 5 and that was that. Fast forward 20 years office's are full of stressed people (the commute starts it) and with technology forget the finish at 5 it's email's 24/7. Honestly couldn't think of anything worse than going into an office for 7/8 hours.
Click to expand...
20 years ago I commuted to Liverpool every day to work and then also had to provide OOH systems support at least once a week (on a rota) or cover the whole of the weekend - fortunately I could do this from home via PC connected via ADSL all paid for by Littlewoods and I got extra dosh for doing it.

Gradually I was able to arrange a WFH day that turned into 2 days, so I’d already enjoyed the benefits of flexible working back then which was great as could do school runs, lunchtime run, doctor/dentist/optician appointments, car MOT/Service etc.

The 90 minute travel time there and 90 minute home meant I could spend my time more productively but at times I did miss the banter of the office and sometimes a simple conversation could fix a problem rather than a 40 long e-mail chain that took all day to chase, and the temptation to keep on working when close to fixing a problem meant I did put in more hours than I was paid for.

Happily, not a problem for me any more!
 
Today's Rishi comment is 'get out there, have fun and spend'.

Eat out to help out all over again.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Yes. It is a worry and does have a feel of history repeating itself.

Although the flip side is - how long do we stay hunkered down? Another year? Two?
Click to expand...
True enough. Its the language for me. People will need to get out but the language implies recklessness
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top