And people get all frothy about a bloody badge on a shirt...

Lytham_fy8 said:
Cunts.

If this was France their headquarters would be on fire, here we just tut though.
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Thames Water arrogantly say there is no legal requirement for the sea to be safe to swim in, so they don't have to do anything. Beggars belief.
 
Wizaard said:
Thames Water arrogantly say there is no legal requirement for the sea to be safe to swim in, so they don't have to do anything. Beggars belief.
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Probably because they're happily swimming in the waters of their own countries.

TAKING BACK CONTROL!
 
gjr said:
I like the sentiment, and I understand Labour being very conservative in the run up to an election but I will reserve judgement on this.
If they announce some bold, ambitious and achievable policies that will benefit most of us then they might get my vote, although it's almost worthless in reality!
I'd also like to hear them say they are scrapping some of the nonsense such as the Rwanda thing but I don't think they will.
If they said they were going to renationalise water I think most people would be good with that might even secure my vote!
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If they say that the headlines next day would be about how many billions of taxpayers money they’d have to spend and how much taxes would rise to pay for it and suddenly Joe Public wouldn’t be so keen. People want change but they don’t want to pay for it.
 
traffordtang said:
If they say that the headlines next day would be about how many billions of taxpayers money they’d have to spend and how much taxes would rise to pay for it and suddenly Joe Public wouldn’t be so keen. People want change but they don’t want to pay for it.
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People should be shrewd enough to know that the headlines that appear in the newspapers suit the agendas of the billionaires that own them!
Unfortunately too many aren't.
 
Can you imagine if this was the USA and their water supply was owned by Arab and European states, who elected to dump raw sewage into their rivers and oceans as opposed to treating it?
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
There's very few countries that would put up with it, this country is just full of saps who follow what the media tell them to follow.
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Too easily distracted from the things that matter with delusional, red white and blue nostalgia that blames people with very little power for the state of things now!
When they say things were better in the 70s and 80s what they pine for is their youth and nobody can bring that back!
 
Lost Seasider said:
How much do you know about the US water/sewage systems?
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I know absolutely zero. I suspect most Yanks are in a similar position. Well barring a quick Google search into their privatised water industry.

Advise me LS on the US system and ownership? Are US citizens happy with it and the water quality?
 

We sampled tap water across the US – and found arsenic, lead and toxic chemicals | US news | The Guardian

A nine-month investigation by the Guardian and Consumer Reports found alarming levels of forever chemicals, arsenic and lead in samples taken across the US
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

First Google search.

amp.cnn.com

‘Forever chemicals’ in water: Nearly half of the tap water in the US is contaminated with PFAS, government study finds | CNN

Almost half of the tap water in the US is contaminated with “forever chemicals” known as PFAS, according to a study.
amp.cnn.com amp.cnn.com

Sounds like they’ve got a nice profitable water market though 👍
 
Chunkylad said:
I know absolutely zero. I suspect most Yanks are in a similar position. Well barring a quick Google search into their privatised water industry.

Advise me LS on the US system and ownership? Are US citizens happy with it and the water quality?
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I've no idea either, but you appeared to say that they'd never accept it, so I thought you might know more than you do.
 
So we’ve been paying for the treatment of wastewater all the time united utilities have been responsible for it. But they’ve been cutting corners and paying dividends & discharging untreated shit to pay them. Now they want more £££ to actually do what they were supposed to be doing. Wankers.
 
Lost Seasider said:
It was the point I was responding to.
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Isn’t that the industry you work in?

I remember in the past on a debate about piss poor performance of water companies and sewage dumping that you were quite knowledgeable? Also that you were happy with the performance results of UU etc
 
Chunkylad said:
Isn’t that the industry you work in?

I remember in the past on a debate about piss poor performance of water companies and sewage dumping that you were quite knowledgeable? Also that you were happy with the performance results of UU etc
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Not even close, but I tend to read up on subjects rather than just subscribe to the usual groupthink.

Here's a good starting point: https://capx.co/knee-jerk-nationalisers-have-no-idea-how-the-water-industry-actually-works/
 
Chunkylad said:
Are you still happy with the UK water companies performance?
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I am not OFWAT, so what does it matter?

On the subject of discharging sewage into the rivers, 2023 was unusually wet, and 2024 has been the same so far, I'm not sure that the water companies can be held responsible for that.
 
Lost Seasider said:
What part of my source do you think is wrong?
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To be fair it makes some reasonable points but I am fundamentally against the provision of water and disposal of waste water being run for the benefit of shareholders.
If it is under funded within state ownership because governments invest in areas that are obvious vote winners then it confirms to me that the way we govern our country needs to change.
 
gjr said:
To be fair it makes some reasonable points but I am fundamentally against the provision of water and disposal of waste water being run for the benefit of shareholders.
If it is under funded within state ownership because governments invest in areas that are obvious vote winners then it confirms to me that the way we govern our country needs to change.
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Even if they do a much better job than their public sector equivalents?
 
Lost Seasider said:
Not even close, but I tend to read up on subjects rather than just subscribe to the usual groupthink.

Here's a good starting point: https://capx.co/knee-jerk-nationalisers-have-no-idea-how-the-water-industry-actually-works/
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I stopped reading at :

privatisation isn't a panacea, but we shouldn't ignore the improvements it has brought about

There are none except for the shareholders who have taken massive dividends, and the lenders making a fortune from the billions of debt ( none at privatisation). Infrastructure crumbles, rivers and beaches wiped out from sewage whatever the weather. Bliue flag beaches trashed, swimming river spots E coli ridden, and sanitary products coming up through the drains.

Even the useless OFWAT has formally reported the bill rises dependent on projects has gone to dividends and loans
 
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Chunkylad said:

Poor performance now ‘the norm’ for some water firms, warns Ofwat | Water | The Guardian

Serious pollution, poor service and weak financial management embedded, says England and Wales water industry regulator
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

These lot have a different view?

It’s very confusing…. Your source says the water companies are doing well and then in this article the regulator says they’re poor?
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The Guardian, cherry-picking from this: https://www.ofwat.gov.uk/publication/water-company-performance-report-2021-22/

6/17 are "lagging", the regulator is pressuring them to improve, also let's bear in mind that this is 2021/22, and I seem to remember there was a little bug going around at the time, which might have had some effect on their performance.

Not great, but would they do any better in public ownership?
 
Lost Seasider said:
Even if they do a much better job than their public sector equivalents?
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There isn't a public sector equivalent in England to compare them with. Like I wrote earlier the way we govern our country means that we don't do the best for the majority of our citizens.
Assuming you aren't a multi millionaire, billionaire, lobbyist or government minister I want the country to be run for the benefit of me and you not the aforementioned.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I am not OFWAT, so what does it matter?

On the subject of discharging sewage into the rivers, 2023 was unusually wet, and 2024 has been the same so far, I'm not sure that the water companies can be held responsible for that.
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They were pumping raw sewage into rivers when it wasn't raining. They are completely and utterly devoted to making money even at the cost of the environment. Doesn't matter which company, they are all the same to a greater or lesser degree. Billions have gone out of the coffers in dividends that could have been invested in the system instead.
 
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Lost Seasider said:
The Guardian, cherry-picking from this: https://www.ofwat.gov.uk/publication/water-company-performance-report-2021-22/

6/17 are "lagging", the regulator is pressuring them to improve, also let's bear in mind that this is 2021/22, and I seem to remember there was a little bug going around at the time, which might have had some effect on their performance.

Not great, but would they do any better in public ownership?
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They'd be UK owned with no dividends to pay out.

Not rocket science is it? You get all riled up by trans folk hurting no one but don't seem to care about raw sewage being pumped in to our eco system.
 
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gjr said:
There isn't a public sector equivalent in England to compare them with.
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Northern Ireland remains in public ownership and by all accounts is in a terrible state.


gjr said:
Like I wrote earlier the way we govern our country means that we don't do the best for the majority of our citizens.
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That hardly sounds like an argument for public ownership.


gjr said:
Assuming you aren't a multi millionaire, billionaire, lobbyist or government minister I want the country to be run for the benefit of me and you not the aforementioned.
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The reality is, it seems to be run for the benefit of the vast numbers of bureaucrats who infest the civil service and other public bodies, AFAICS government ministers are right at the bottom of the pile.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Northern Ireland remains in public ownership and by all accounts is in a terrible state.



That hardly sounds like an argument for public ownership.



The reality is, it seems to be run for the benefit of the vast numbers of bureaucrats who infest the civil service and other public bodies, AFAICS government ministers are right at the bottom of the pile.
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We aren't going to agree on any of this we appear to be looking at it from different perspectives.
I think there are certain things, water being one of them that could be better if in state ownership. That doesn't mean copying or persisting with failed ways of doing things it means coming up with new effective ways.
Private ownership is right for some areas, state for others but they all need to be run effectively and with a clear target to aim for.
I'm guessing you will always feel that you have been proved right if you use worst case scenarios that currently exist.
How about people coming up with new and effective solutions to problems that might upset an army of comfortable civil servants or a billionaire who always considers his own bank balance as the priority?
Ultimately water and waste water disposal should be about the nations health and not a small minorities wealth.
 
We also have far more people in the country shitting.

And I don't think it's fair to blame the sewage companies for the idiots who put stuff down the bog despite the relentless message telling them not to.

But

They hold us to ransom, they're isn't a competitive market in providing the utility, so we can't go to a different, more ethical supplier.

The greed to charge as much as they do and not invest in the basic infrastructure to do the job right it's a national scandal.

And as much as I don't care knew way or the other about leaving the EU, this is one area where they would have been fined.
 
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