Booster Jab

[Malced]

161,000 deaths with Covid on the death certificate, 145,000 of which have Covid was registered as the underlying cause by a qualified doctor.

Excess mortality is estimated at 124,000 now so perhaps 20,000 of those deaths would've been expected to occur by now anyway from other causes.

In any event my original post wasn't about the exact death toll, it was to ask what the death toll would've been without the restrictions?

I don’t know. What will the death toll be eventually as a result of how we managed this pandemic? How many excess deaths will there be from cancer alone? Some predict it will dwarf the number of deaths we’ve saved from Covid.

What about the impact on the nhs in that there’s soon gonna be over 10 million on waiting lists? We’ve not protected the nhs, we’ve caused a crisis.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have protected the elderly. But there’s other ways to protect them rather than paying healthy younger people to stay at home. Lockdowns are incredibly harmful in so many ways. We have caused immense harm to ourselves by going to an incredible extent to protect folk who would have died soon thereafter statistically speaking.

We could have paid the elderly to shield thus allowing the economy to keep moving to a greater extent than we did. Yeah it’s not easy to shield elderly but I’d like to think if we faced this same situation again we would be smarter than merely imposing broad brush lockdowns which when evaluated could well show they were more harmful than beneficial.

 

[foggy]

I don’t know. What will the death toll be eventually as a result of how we managed this pandemic? How many excess deaths will there be from cancer alone? Some predict it will dwarf the number of deaths we’ve saved from Covid.

What about the impact on the nhs in that there’s soon gonna be over 10 million on waiting lists? We’ve not protected the nhs, we’ve caused a crisis.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have protected the elderly. But there’s other ways to protect them rather than paying healthy younger people to stay at home. Lockdowns are incredibly harmful in so many ways. We have caused immense harm to ourselves by going to an incredible extent to protect folk who would have died soon thereafter statistically speaking.

We could have paid the elderly to shield thus allowing the economy to keep moving to a greater extent than we did. Yeah it’s not easy to shield elderly but I’d like to think if we faced this same situation again we would be smarter than merely imposing broad brush lockdowns which when evaluated could well show they were more harmful than beneficial.

When do you think the NHS was at its most overwhelmed?

 

[Malced]

When do you think the NHS was at its most overwhelmed?

When do you think it was? Maybe we haven’t seen it yet. We certainly didn’t utilise the nightingale hospitals. Going forward it’s sinking under the weight of delayed operations etc.

All these millions will worsen whilst waiting for treatment. That will mean secondary conditions, increased drugs for pain killing etc, mental health issues, lives blighted and so on. I’m not sure how you compare this to a Covid peak on the front line, but the nhs is facing a very bleak future due to the scale of the challenge. There will be an impact on excess deaths too.

 

[foggy]

When do you think it was? Maybe we haven’t seen it yet. We certainly didn’t utilise the nightingale hospitals. Going forward it’s sinking under the weight of delayed operations etc.

All these millions will worsen whilst waiting for treatment. That will mean secondary conditions, increased drugs for pain killing etc, mental health issues, lives blighted and so on. I’m not sure how you compare this to a Covid peak on the front line, but the nhs is facing a very bleak future due to the scale of the challenge. There will be an impact on excess deaths too.

It was when COVID cases were at their highest and hospitalisations were at their highest. When we had lockdowns hospitalisations decreased dramatically almost to a complete halt.

I don't think any is arguing the unfortunate side effects of a pandemic. Pausing cancer diagnoses for example as you hinted at. Doesn't that support measures to mitigate COVID infections and hospitalisations?

I will also again point out that the UK government can put more funding into the NHS any time it wants and it wouldn't need to have any impact of your taxes.

 

[Lost Seasider]

I don’t know. What will the death toll be eventually as a result of how we managed this pandemic? How many excess deaths will there be from cancer alone? Some predict it will dwarf the number of deaths we’ve saved from Covid.

We can only speculate, but our excess deaths are fairly middle of the pack at 183/100k, the worst affected countries have suffered 500+ but presumably they implemented lockdown measures as well so maybe we'd be looking at 3 - 4 times our actual deaths, probably somewhere north of 500,000.

What about the impact on the nhs in that there’s soon gonna be over 10 million on waiting lists? We’ve not protected the nhs, we’ve caused a crisis.

The waiting lists, and the cancer delays, are because the NHS was increadibly busy dealing with Covid, without lockdown the situation would've been far worse, even more resources diverted to deal with Covid patients meaning even bigger delays in other areas.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have protected the elderly. But there’s other ways to protect them rather than paying healthy younger people to stay at home. Lockdowns are incredibly harmful in so many ways. We have caused immense harm to ourselves by going to an incredible extent to protect folk who would have died soon thereafter statistically speaking.

A person who reaches the age of 82 can expect to live for another 8 - 10 years, this idea that because the average age of the dead was similar to the average life expectancy of the population at birth it meant they were likely to die soon is complete nonsense.

We could have paid the elderly to shield thus allowing the economy to keep moving to a greater extent than we did. Yeah it’s not easy to shield elderly but I’d like to think if we faced this same situation again we would be smarter than merely imposing broad brush lockdowns which when evaluated could well show they were more harmful than beneficial.

That's exactly what they tried to do with the first wave, perhaps if they had better information and imposed those measures right at the start of March we could've avoided the full lockdown, we'll never know, but having got to the situation we were in on 23 March there really was no choice.

They tried something similar with the second wave, the old tiered system was supposed to ensure that restrictions were appropriate to the risk and pressure on the NHS, and it worked reasonably well until Kent came along and made the virus even harder to control.

 

[foggy]

A person who reaches the age of 82 can expect to live for another 8 - 10 years, this idea that because the average age of the dead was similar to the average life expectancy of the population at birth it meant they were likely to die soon is complete nonsense.

An excellent point.

 

[Malced]

An excellent point.

You can conclude what you like. If the average age of life expectancy is 82 and average age of death is 82 then it’s hardly wrong to flag this as being pertinent.

The volume of people considered within the stats I’ve referenced are what is known as ‘representative’ and ‘statistically valid’.

Saying someone born at 82 expects to live another ten years is neither here nor there. What they hope or expect and what reality is are different things when considering the population.

As I’ve said, death rates dropped from the norm after the peak deaths in Covid. That’s because you can’t die twice. People died a little earlier than they would have so they couldn’t die again a few months later. There’s no getting away from that no matter how many of you gang together in denial.

 

[foggy]

You can conclude what you like. If the average age of life expectancy is 82 and average age of death is 82 then it’s hardly wrong to flag this as being pertinent.

The volume of people considered within the stats I’ve referenced are what is known as ‘representative’ and ‘statistically valid’.

Saying someone born at 82 expects to live another ten years is neither here nor there. What they hope or expect and what reality is are different things when considering the population.

As I’ve said, death rates dropped from the norm after the peak deaths in Covid. That’s because you can’t die twice. People died a little earlier than they would have so they couldn’t die again a few months later. There’s no getting away from that no matter how many of you gang together in denial.

When he said they can 'hope or expect to live another 10 years' he wasn't saying it randomly, like it's just some far off dream. If you have reached 80 years of age, your life expectancy is probably 88 ( I don't have the real figures here just a guess).

You were trying to say that people who are 75-80 who get COVID are about to die anyway. That is simply not true, because the average life expectancy includes everyone who has died before that point. It includes all infant deaths. You have fundamentally misused life expectancy stats. Statistically speaking, if you get COVID aged 77 and die, it probably took ten years off your life. Those ten years, I believe, are worth fighting for.

 

[Malced]

When he said they can 'hope or expect to live another 10 years' he wasn't saying it randomly, like it's just some far off dream. If you have reached 80 years of age, your life expectancy is probably 88 ( I don't have the real figures here just a guess).

You were trying to say that people who are 75-80 who get COVID are about to die anyway. That is simply not true, because the average life expectancy includes everyone who has died before that point. It includes all infant deaths. You have fundamentally misused life expectancy stats. Statistically speaking, if you get COVID aged 77 and die, it probably took ten years off your life. Those ten years, I believe, are worth fighting for.

I’m not sure how you can speak for someone else unless you’ve had a conference call.

Not only do you claim to know the inner workings of some other poster’s mind, but you also tell me what I was trying to say.

Why don’t you just set up your own message board and then you can talk to yourself in full agreement all day long. Simples.

 

[foggy]

I’m not sure how you can speak for someone else unless you’ve had a conference call.

Not only do you claim to know the inner workings of some other poster’s mind, but you also tell me what I was trying to say.

Why don’t you just set up your own message board and then you can talk to yourself in full agreement all day long. Simples.

I'm going off exactly what you said, no guessing here. I note that you've deleted your post where you accepted I was correct and said it was great I didn't resort to name calling. That's funny.

 

[Wizaard]

We can only speculate, but our excess deaths are fairly middle of the pack at 183/100k, the worst affected countries have suffered 500+ but presumably they implemented lockdown measures as well so maybe we'd be looking at 3 - 4 times our actual deaths, probably somewhere north of 500,000.




The waiting lists, and the cancer delays, are because the NHS was increadibly busy dealing with Covid, without lockdown the situation would've been far worse, even more resources diverted to deal with Covid patients meaning even bigger delays in other areas.




A person who reaches the age of 82 can expect to live for another 8 - 10 years, this idea that because the average age of the dead was similar to the average life expectancy of the population at birth it meant they were likely to die soon is complete nonsense.




That's exactly what they tried to do with the first wave, perhaps if they had better information and imposed those measures right at the start of March we could've avoided the full lockdown, we'll never know, but having got to the situation we were in on 23 March there really was no choice.

They tried something similar with the second wave, the old tiered system was supposed to ensure that restrictions were appropriate to the risk and pressure on the NHS, and it worked reasonably well until Kent came along and made the virus even harder to control.

The report from the Select Committee this week blamed lockdown bring too late; track and trace being rubbish; failure to stop influx from abroad and failure to protect care homes.

All decisions firmly at Boris' door, as these were called for by most informed people at least a month before anything was done. Even on here they were pointed out in February 2020.

What's the betting it hasn't been read in full by the PM?

 

[Malced]

I'm going off exactly what you said, no guessing here. I note that you've deleted your post where you accepted I was correct and said it was great I didn't resort to name calling. That's funny.

I haven’t resorted to name calling.

I was being sarcastic mainly because you wrongly claim some wider meaning to my original words. You can’t take what I say and then say ‘I meant’ something else to what I meant.

By the way, I absolutely have NOT deleted the message you refer to. I have just looked quickly at this site for the first time in a few hours. I can’t see the message you refer to. I’d have to check if it was on this thread or another. But I promise you I certainly haven’t deleted it. If someone else has deleted then that’s out of my control though I can’t imagine why they’d have deleted it.

 

[Wizaard]

It's a shame that you have no idea about what is actually going on, and how the government have used a campaign of fear to mess with your head. One only has to look across the world and see how in Australia for example, you will not be allowed to leave your home unless vaccinated. Go out and protest, you know that democratic right we have, and you will be met with rubber bullets and tear gas. Hundreds of police officers, fire men , soldiers , nurses and doctors all being sacked or forced to quit because they will not accept forced vaccinations. Mass protests going on right now across Italy, France, Switzerland amongst many others at the removal of peoples liberty, their right to choose etc etc. Now they are coming for children and you insipid shell of a man think that this is for your health. Give your head a wobble.

What I find interesting is that people sat at home with no friends are the ones to see through the cloak of deception brought in by the powers that control us.

What gives them this great insight that is beyond everyone else?

I must have missed the anti-vaxxers being rubber bulleted and tear gassed in this country as well. That's because 'they' control the media. To be fair, I'm part of the Government machine, so I'm OK.

 

[Adams Kebab]

There’s been a ramping up of hysteria over the past couple of days, the usual clowns like Neil Ferguson and ‘Independent Sage’ talking about future restrictions and the latter calling for them now. The Coronavirus Act passed through yesterday, with the Speaker and MP’s laughing and joking in the Commons about the “mood of the room”. People’s lives and businesses on the line with any future restrictions, but to those who feel no financial effect or doubts job security, it’s all fine. It’s almost as if, some people want these restrictions or for things to go wrong to score political points. Sad as fuck.

On this thread, it’s quite bizarre how natural immunity or people’s own immune systems are dismissed to the point of being labelled a conspiracy theorist. Mention the well publicised 99% recovery rate and you get pushed into the David Icke bracket.

All this while people start discussing their booster jabs & still wanting to wear masks for something they are seemingly protected against for the 3rd time, under the guise of protecting the NHS, yet at the same time talking about making front-line staff who won’t get jabbed move to different non-facing roles, during a health crisis with them set to be overwhelmed (as they are every winter) ??

The pressure that exists on the health service should not be blamed on people, the fault lies with years of underfunding which has led to too few beds & staff. Drill down further into this and the blame shifts onto the “unvaccinated”, but this will probably soon turn into the “vaxxer slackers” or the “booster refuser” as the next few months progress.

Many people are passed the point of no return on how they view things, they won’t look at things logically & there’s almost a will for people who don’t agree with them to miss out on society or face punishment. We’ve gone from “15m jabs to freedom” and the old and vulnerable to be vaccinated, to 12-15 year olds, to threats of people not being able to do things and potentially lose employment. This is not morally right especially given the JVCI view on teenage vaccination.

The last key point is, how many people have looked at their own health in this? Fitness, nutrition? Lifestyle changes? Or are you just relying on a jab and then boosters. Are you not going to make any differences to your life yourself? It’s easy to do this, but involves a bit of graft.

Weird how the government who care so much about everyone’s health aren’t really promoting this message and neither is anyone else, boosters all the way. Funny that isn’t it…

 

[Lala]

There’s been a ramping up of hysteria over the past couple of days, the usual clowns like Neil Ferguson and ‘Independent Sage’ talking about future restrictions and the latter calling for them now. The Coronavirus Act passed through yesterday, with the Speaker and MP’s laughing and joking in the Commons about the “mood of the room”. People’s lives and businesses on the line with any future restrictions, but to those who feel no financial effect or doubts job security, it’s all fine. It’s almost as if, some people want these restrictions or for things to go wrong to score political points. Sad as fuck.

On this thread, it’s quite bizarre how natural immunity or people’s own immune systems are dismissed to the point of being labelled a conspiracy theorist. Mention the well publicised 99% recovery rate and you get pushed into the David Icke bracket.

All this while people start discussing their booster jabs & still wanting to wear masks for something they are seemingly protected against for the 3rd time, under the guise of protecting the NHS, yet at the same time talking about making front-line staff who won’t get jabbed move to different non-facing roles, during a health crisis with them set to be overwhelmed (as they are every winter) ??

The pressure that exists on the health service should not be blamed on people, the fault lies with years of underfunding which has led to too few beds & staff. Drill down further into this and the blame shifts onto the “unvaccinated”, but this will probably soon turn into the “vaxxer slackers” or the “booster refuser” as the next few months progress.

Many people are passed the point of no return on how they view things, they won’t look at things logically & there’s almost a will for people who don’t agree with them to miss out on society or face punishment. We’ve gone from “15m jabs to freedom” and the old and vulnerable to be vaccinated, to 12-15 year olds, to threats of people not being able to do things and potentially lose employment. This is not morally right especially given the JVCI view on teenage vaccination.

The last key point is, how many people have looked at their own health in this? Fitness, nutrition? Lifestyle changes? Or are you just relying on a jab and then boosters. Are you not going to make any differences to your life yourself? It’s easy to do this, but involves a bit of graft.

Weird how the government who care so much about everyone’s health aren’t really promoting this message and neither is anyone else, boosters all the way. Funny that isn’t it…

Neil Ferguson another breaker of his own rules Can’t be trusted now.

 

[Adams Kebab]

Neil Ferguson another breaker of his own rules Can’t be trusted now.

It’s incredible he’s still given any air-time given as you say he broke his own rules and his recent predictions and modelling on case numbers and hospitalisations have been so far wide of the mark, the equivalent of giving Avftt Racing tipsters a column in the Racing Post.

 

[Shandypants]

Neil Ferguson another breaker of his own rules Can’t be trusted now.

To be fair I don't think Ferguson set the rules. His was an advisory role, I'm sure it was the govt who set the rules.

 

[Wizaard]

There’s been a ramping up of hysteria over the past couple of days, the usual clowns like Neil Ferguson and ‘Independent Sage’ talking about future restrictions and the latter calling for them now. The Coronavirus Act passed through yesterday, with the Speaker and MP’s laughing and joking in the Commons about the “mood of the room”. People’s lives and businesses on the line with any future restrictions, but to those who feel no financial effect or doubts job security, it’s all fine. It’s almost as if, some people want these restrictions or for things to go wrong to score political points. Sad as fuck.

On this thread, it’s quite bizarre how natural immunity or people’s own immune systems are dismissed to the point of being labelled a conspiracy theorist. Mention the well publicised 99% recovery rate and you get pushed into the David Icke bracket.

All this while people start discussing their booster jabs & still wanting to wear masks for something they are seemingly protected against for the 3rd time, under the guise of protecting the NHS, yet at the same time talking about making front-line staff who won’t get jabbed move to different non-facing roles, during a health crisis with them set to be overwhelmed (as they are every winter) ??

The pressure that exists on the health service should not be blamed on people, the fault lies with years of underfunding which has led to too few beds & staff. Drill down further into this and the blame shifts onto the “unvaccinated”, but this will probably soon turn into the “vaxxer slackers” or the “booster refuser” as the next few months progress.

Many people are passed the point of no return on how they view things, they won’t look at things logically & there’s almost a will for people who don’t agree with them to miss out on society or face punishment. We’ve gone from “15m jabs to freedom” and the old and vulnerable to be vaccinated, to 12-15 year olds, to threats of people not being able to do things and potentially lose employment. This is not morally right especially given the JVCI view on teenage vaccination.

The last key point is, how many people have looked at their own health in this? Fitness, nutrition? Lifestyle changes? Or are you just relying on a jab and then boosters. Are you not going to make any differences to your life yourself? It’s easy to do this, but involves a bit of graft.

Weird how the government who care so much about everyone’s health aren’t really promoting this message and neither is anyone else, boosters all the way. Funny that isn’t it…

I think it comes down to those who know someone who has died of it, or been seriously ill and are understandably wary, against those who don't have that experience. 99% means nothing then. It's personal.

 

[Malced]

To be fair I don't think Ferguson set the rules. His was an advisory role, I'm sure it was the govt who set the rules.

Well that’s splitting hairs isn’t it.

He was known as the architect of the lockdown. Then he broke the lockdown rules. It doesn’t get much more blatantly hypocritical than that.

 

[Old_Laytonian]

Neil Ferguson another breaker of his own rules Can’t be trusted now.

He was quoted again this morning on Breakfast TV. As soon as i heard his name I turned over to Sky Sports News

 

[Lost Seasider]

I’m not sure how you can speak for someone else unless you’ve had a conference call.

Not only do you claim to know the inner workings of some other poster’s mind, but you also tell me what I was trying to say.

Simple, he correctly read my post and understood what I was saying.

 

[Bottle]

Well that’s splitting hairs isn’t it.

He was known as the architect of the lockdown. Then he broke the lockdown rules. It doesn’t get much more blatantly hypocritical than that.

I think you will find that someone much higher placed up the “buck stops here” ladder, and a notable few others, are much more blatantly hypocritical than noted Epidemiologist Professor Neil Ferguson.

 

[Malced]

I think you will find that someone much higher placed up the “buck stops here” ladder, and a notable few others, are much more blatantly hypocritical than noted Epidemiologist Professor Neil Ferguson.

Thanks , but on this topic I won’t at all find others who were ‘much more’ blatantly hypocritical.

Of course there’s others higher up the who transgressed. I’ll accept there were others perhaps equally or slightly more hypocritical. But we’re getting into shades of grey for no good reason. More importantly, we’re talking about Ferguson. Not about anyone else.

Ferguson was known as the lockdown architect. He was in the public eye. He was highly influential on SAGE. To the lay person being told what to do during Covid, he was one of the officials behind it. He wasn’t on cabinet. He wasn’t PM. But there’s no getting away from the fact that he had a huge role in making the rules. Hopefully you can accept that’s blatantly hypocritical.

(Far too often in these avftt discussions we see these diversionary tactics. It’s like a two wrongs make a right, type of logic. Angela Raynor called MPs scum but folk jumed to her defence because hey look over there - there’s someone worse! And then it becomes a discussion not about the merits of Angela Raynor, but a discussion about Boris Johnson.)

But let’s play it your way for just a second. Let’s ‘be fair’ to the then Scottish Chief Medical Officer. She was highly influential with the Scottish lockdown rules. She was known to the public as one of those advising government. She broke the rules by going to a holiday home during lockdown. I’d say she’s blatantly hypocritical. More or less than Cummings? More or less than Ferguson?
It doesn’t matter. They were all blatantly hypocritical. But hang on, they’re not her rules. There’s others higher up the ladder where the buck should stop. Well, ‘you’ll find’ (and to find you just have to use your memory) that with both Ferguson and the Scottish chief medical officer, the general public were not so willing to look away and look somewhere else for a bigger pantomime villain. Their positions became untenable due to their blatant hypocrisy and they had to resign.

 

[Wizaard]

I think you will find that someone much higher placed up the “buck stops here” ladder, and a notable few others, are much more blatantly hypocritical than noted Epidemiologist Professor Neil Ferguson.

It turns out that Boris and Carrie spent Christmas with one of her mates.

A Junior Minister Anne-Marie Trevelyan, has had the barefaced cheek to turn round and justify it, saying their childcare support needs were greater than that of the general public.

And still people say he's doing a great job and a man of the people.

He despises you all and is only in it for himself.

 

[Wizaard]

Thanks , but on this topic I won’t at all find others who were ‘much more’ blatantly hypocritical.

Of course there’s others higher up the who transgressed. I’ll accept there were others perhaps equally or slightly more hypocritical. But we’re getting into shades of grey for no good reason. More importantly, we’re talking about Ferguson. Not about anyone else.

Ferguson was known as the lockdown architect. He was in the public eye. He was highly influential on SAGE. To the lay person being told what to do during Covid, he was one of the officials behind it. He wasn’t on cabinet. He wasn’t PM. But there’s no getting away from the fact that he had a huge role in making the rules. Hopefully you can accept that’s blatantly hypocritical.

(Far too often in these avftt discussions we see these diversionary tactics. It’s like a two wrongs make a right, type of logic. Angela Raynor called MPs scum but folk jumed to her defence because hey look over there - there’s someone worse! And then it becomes a discussion not about the merits of Angela Raynor, but a discussion about Boris Johnson.)

But let’s play it your way for just a second. Let’s ‘be fair’ to the then Scottish Chief Medical Officer. She was highly influential with the Scottish lockdown rules. She was known to the public as one of those advising government. She broke the rules by going to a holiday home during lockdown. I’d say she’s blatantly hypocritical. More or less than Cummings? More or less than Ferguson?
It doesn’t matter. They were all blatantly hypocritical. But hang on, they’re not her rules. There’s others higher up the ladder where the buck should stop. Well, ‘you’ll find’ (and to find you just have to use your memory) that with both Ferguson and the Scottish chief medical officer, the general public were not so willing to look away and look somewhere else for a bigger pantomime villain. Their positions became untenable due to their blatant hypocrisy and they had to resign.

The Scottish CMO resigned. That never happens with the hypocrites in charge in England.

 

[Malced]

Simple, he correctly read my post and understood what I was saying.

Firstly I’m glad to see my post has returned. Any inferences that I deleted it were wide of the mark though I can understand how it looked.

Secondly I’m glad to the see the Lost Seasider/Foggy tag team is still alive and well. A tag team helps especially as you’re always on the ropes.

 

[Malced]

It turns out that Boris and Carrie spent Christmas with one of her mates.

A Junior Minister Anne-Marie Trevelyan, has had the barefaced cheek to turn round and justify it, saying their childcare support needs were greater than that of the general public.

And still people say he's doing a great job and a man of the people.

He despises you all and is only in it for himself.

Why don’t we do away with any new threads? Instead we could just have a pinned thread called say ‘Blackpool B&B’.

The content of that thread would be a statement to say no further debates would be allowed cos we already know the outcome. It’s always Boris and Brexit.

 

[Wizaard]

Why don’t we do away with any new threads? Instead we could just have a pinned thread called say ‘Blackpool B&B’.

The content of that thread would be a statement to say no further debates would be allowed cos we already know the outcome. It’s always Boris and Brexit.

So you're happy that you kept to the rules at Christmas and didn't see family and friends, but the man ultimately accountable was blithely bringing family friends along for a jolly at a location paid for by the taxpayer.

 

[Malced]

So you're happy that you kept to the rules at Christmas and didn't see family and friends, but the man ultimately accountable was blithely bringing family friends along for a jolly.

Absolutely not. My point is we were talking about Ferguson but then it became about Boris as it always does.

Boris’s behaviour doesn’t forgive or negate the behaviours of others. We are allowed to be unhappy with more than one official aren’t we?

By the way, I presume you’re unhappy with Ferguson? You didn’t say.

 

[Bottle]

Thanks , but on this topic I won’t at all find others who were ‘much more’ blatantly hypocritical.

Of course there’s others higher up the who transgressed. I’ll accept there were others perhaps equally or slightly more hypocritical. But we’re getting into shades of grey for no good reason. More importantly, we’re talking about Ferguson. Not about anyone else.

Ferguson was known as the lockdown architect. He was in the public eye. He was highly influential on SAGE. To the lay person being told what to do during Covid, he was one of the officials behind it. He wasn’t on cabinet. He wasn’t PM. But there’s no getting away from the fact that he had a huge role in making the rules. Hopefully you can accept that’s blatantly hypocritical.

(Far too often in these avftt discussions we see these diversionary tactics. It’s like a two wrongs make a right, type of logic. Angela Raynor called MPs scum but folk jumed to her defence because hey look over there - there’s someone worse! And then it becomes a discussion not about the merits of Angela Raynor, but a discussion about Boris Johnson.)

But let’s play it your way for just a second. Let’s ‘be fair’ to the then Scottish Chief Medical Officer. She was highly influential with the Scottish lockdown rules. She was known to the public as one of those advising government. She broke the rules by going to a holiday home during lockdown. I’d say she’s blatantly hypocritical. More or less than Cummings? More or less than Ferguson?
It doesn’t matter. They were all blatantly hypocritical. But hang on, they’re not her rules. There’s others higher up the ladder where the buck should stop. Well, ‘you’ll find’ (and to find you just have to use your memory) that with both Ferguson and the Scottish chief medical officer, the general public were not so willing to look away and look somewhere else for a bigger pantomime villain. Their positions became untenable due to their blatant hypocrisy and they had to resign.

You said “it doesn’t get much more blatantly hypocritical than that.” And I’m saying there are greater examples of hypocrisy being shown by those at the very top who are the one’s making the rules and recommendations - based on evidence from the Scientific Community - that they expect us all to follow.

Perhaps what we should all do is take our lead from all the hypocrites and just do what the hell we want. So for example I’ll continue to wear a mask in shops and get as many booster or otherwise jabs that enhance - in my hypocritical view - my chances of getting another couple of years in. I will say I’m also considering switching to Mayonnaise “Light”.

For those that don’t want to wear masks, not have jabs etc. Then crack on

 

[Malced]

You said “it doesn’t get much more blatantly hypocritical than that.” And I’m saying there are greater examples of hypocrisy being shown by those at the very top who are the one’s making the rules and recommendations - based on evidence from the Scientific Community - that they expect us all to follow.

Perhaps what we should all do is take our lead from all the hypocrites and just do what the hell we want. So for example I’ll continue to wear a mask in shops and get as many booster or otherwise jabs that enhance - in my hypocritical view - my chances of getting another couple of years in. I will say I’m also considering switching to Mayonnaise “Light”.

For those that don’t want to wear masks, not have jabs etc. Then crack on

I’m not sure if you’re unhappy with Ferguson’s blatant hypocrisy or just those above him.

I’ll wear a mask when legally obliged to and I’ll gladly and gratefully have all my jabs when eligible. So we have at least some things in common, and I’ll try to ignore your love of mayonnaise. I’ll turn my Mayo wars attention to the full fat Mayo lovers (Chubby Boris) rather than the Mayo light lovers (skinny Ferguson). All things lead back to Boris in the end.

 

[Bottle]

I’m not sure if you’re unhappy with Ferguson’s blatant hypocrisy or just those above him.

I’ll wear a mask when legally obliged to and I’ll gladly and gratefully have all my jabs when eligible. So we have at least some things in common, and I’ll try to ignore your love of mayonnaise. I’ll turn my Mayo wars attention to the full fat Mayo lovers (Chubby Boris) rather than the Mayo light lovers (skinny Ferguson). All things lead back to Boris in the end.

Yes I was surprised and disappointed in Ferguson who fell to to the Achilles Heel of most men, he let his dick rule his head. just as the voting system in this country has allowed a dick to rule the land!

 

[Trammo]

There can be no doubt that Boris is responsible for............. the worst Labour Party General Election defeat since 1935 ! Bloody 1935 ! Worse than Barnstoneworh Utd’s biggest ever loss!

 

[Malced]

Yes I was surprised and disappointed in Ferguson who fell to to the Achilles Heel of most men, he let his dick rule his head. just as the voting system in this country has allowed a dick to rule the land!

 

[AndrewDuncanSmith]

I have had the first 2 jabs I have been through out this pandemic quite anti social
and even after I receive the booster jab I won t socialise with other people.

 

[Adams Kebab]

I have had the first 2 jabs I have been through out this pandemic quite anti social
and even after I receive the booster jab I won t socialise with other people.

That’s not very healthy.

When will you feel like you can start socialising again? Or is this it?

 

[BigHandsOliverKahn]

Something needs to be done, if only cheap and affective measures like work from home and masks indoors. Case rates have gone stupid in this country compared to elsewhere and daily deaths are now up to a level we can't just dismiss as an irrelevance - nearly 900 deaths so far this week - and all this before we are anywhere near winter.

Putting all eggs in the vaccine basket and that now wearing out isn't now looking the right thing to do. Need a few extra layers of protection adding to the defence.

 

[Lost Seasider]

Something needs to be done, if only cheap and affective measures like work from home and masks indoors. Case rates have gone stupid in this country compared to elsewhere and daily deaths are now up to a level we can't just dismiss as an irrelevance - nearly 900 deaths sk far this week - and all this before we are anywhere near winter.

The risk there is that you're not preventing cases, you're pushing them back into the winter when the pressures on the NHS are highest, so there's a strong case against measures to reduce case numbers at this time.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

We've lost probably over 150,000 through Covid, what do you think the numbers would be without the restrictions? What do you think happens when the NHS collapses under the weight of Covid patients?

Lost, don't make the fatal mistake of trying to rationalise with an idiot.
PS. Rejoinders about debating with me on here will not be appreciated.