Brexit war - that was then, this is now

glasshalffull said:
To be fair Jacob Rees-Mogg did say it might take fifty years for us to see the benefit of Bexit.

Unfortunately I think we are over budget and behind schedule already.
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50 years !!! He said that after the referendum when asked if he would resign if Brexit was shown not to be beneficial (i.e. covering his own arse!!).

Do you think if that had been on the side of the Brexit bus, people would have voted the same way. Most of them will be dead by then with voting intentions more likely to be influenced by their ability to pay their bills next week, not that their grandchildren might live in an economic paradise in 50 years!!
 
johnnyb said:
50 years !!! He said that after the referendum when asked if he would resign if Brexit was shown not to be beneficial (i.e. covering his own arse!!).

Do you think if that had been on the side of the Brexit bus, people would have voted the same way. Most of them will be dead by then with voting intentions more likely to be influenced by their ability to pay their bills next week, not that their grandchildren might live in an economic paradise in 50 years!!
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I think you and I are probably on the same page, but I am not quite sure??
 
When they said the German car industry would come to the rescue they didn't mean that. Brexit has been utterly pathetic, what a turgid flop of epic proportions.
 
Shandypants said:
Brexit has been utterly pathetic, what a turgid flop of epic proportions.
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Not all bad though. UK food and drink exports have hit a record high in Qtr3 of 2022, rising from the previous year by 23%. Sales to the EU increased by 18% and non-EU sales were up 30%.

Whisky +38%, chocolate +13%, cheese +40%, gin +41%.

Food and drink exports to Italy up 42%, France up 24%, Netherlands up 34%, Germany up 27% and Spain up 51%.

All trade figures, good and bad, are affected by the economy, covid, strikes etc but significantly this news is positive and that's a good thing.
 
tommytwojags said:
Not all bad though. UK food and drink exports have hit a record high in Qtr3 of 2022, rising from the previous year by 23%. Sales to the EU increased by 18% and non-EU sales were up 30%.

Whisky +38%, chocolate +13%, cheese +40%, gin +41%.

Food and drink exports to Italy up 42%, France up 24%, Netherlands up 34%, Germany up 27% and Spain up 51%.

All trade figures, good and bad, are affected by the economy, covid, strikes etc but significantly this news is positive and that's a good thing.
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Official figures show that food and drink exports are still below pre brexit figures to the EU. Figures have risen to areas outside the EU but considering the EU was by far the biggest market and the closest it hardly makes up. Total export figures are down so its hardly a win.
 
Wizaard said:
£200,000 pa. The economy is saved.

That's less than Scott Benton took in expenses.
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No it will be worth billions once the Koreans get a liking for the taste of British pork which is far superior to what they have been scoffing before. Oh yes the Pinky And Perky brand will be a sure fire winner!🇬🇧
 
Exports to the UAE up 41%. Total exports to Gulf countries were worth £624.5million last year and continue to grow. Trade with the Far East is the highest ever, creating a positive trade balance of £121million on whisky and other spirits, plus butter and cheese. Fish sales up by 560%. Singapore wine sales up 24%. Gin sales up by 56%. Why are some people so disappointed at higher than expected sales figures? Is it because they want the UK to fail so they can say I told you so?
 
tommytwojags said:
Exports to the UAE up 41%. Total exports to Gulf countries were worth £624.5million last year and continue to grow. Trade with the Far East is the highest ever, creating a positive trade balance of £121million on whisky and other spirits, plus butter and cheese. Fish sales up by 560%. Singapore wine sales up 24%. Gin sales up by 56%. Why are some people so disappointed at higher than expected sales figures? Is it because they want the UK to fail so they can say I told you so?
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Who the feck wants the UK to fail, grow up. Fish exports up 560%. That's not total figures is it? It'll be a figure based on exports to somewhere like Albabia comparing figures from 1833 to 2022. Embarrassing nonsense .
Positive trade balance of 121m absolutely pittance figures. Singapore wine sales up 21% wow how much are we sending in total.
 
Exports of Uncle Joe mint balls up 37% to Alaska (sold an additional 8 packs last year) , fisherman Friend exports up 22% to Antarctica (three extra packs sold) kiwi gloss shoe polish up 17% to Borneo (that's another two tins)
 
tommytwojags said:
Listen to yourself. You're forever gloating about any bad news the UK suffers, but we never hear a dicky bird from you about the good news, apart from ridiculing the positive figures as demonstrated above. But don't worry, I'll keep reminding you.
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Listen to yourself. Forever gloating over bad news? Not at all, anyone is entitled to point out the inadequacy of what was promised and what was delivered. Your good news stories are as dismal as the £1m over 5 years that may occur via selling sausages to Korea. We've made it so much harder to sell to our biggest and nearest market and you try to gloss over this with minscule figures. For example you said we've sold 24% more wine to Singapore, last year we sold £3.9m worth of wine there. Like I said grow up, it's truly pathetic. If that constitutes a brexit benefit you lot really are a brainwashed cult.
 
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tommytwojags said:
Exports to the UAE up 41%. Total exports to Gulf countries were worth £624.5million last year and continue to grow. Trade with the Far East is the highest ever, creating a positive trade balance of £121million on whisky and other spirits, plus butter and cheese. Fish sales up by 560%. Singapore wine sales up 24%. Gin sales up by 56%. Why are some people so disappointed at higher than expected sales figures? Is it because they want the UK to fail so they can say I told you so?
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Meanwhile lots of SMEs are struggling because of difficulties exporting to the EU. Very difficult for them because extra costs and great deal of paperwork meaning theyve lost lots, if not most or all of their .business. Those who might be doing well with sales to the EU must be the v large companies.
 
Environment minister Mark Spencer has announced that Britain's fishing quota is 30,000 tonnes higher as a result of Brexit. British boats will be able to catch up to 140,000 tonnes of fish worth more than £280 million. He said “Our agreement with the EU secures valuable opportunities for the UK fishing industry while cementing our joint commitment to manage fisheries sustainably. The increase enables us to back the fishing industry across the country with a landmark £100m investment in infrastructure, skills and better scientific data so that our industry thrives for generations to come.”
 
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tommytwojags said:
Environment minister Mark Spencer has announced that Britain's fishing quota is 30,000 tonnes higher as a result of Brexit. British boats will be able to catch up to 140,000 tonnes of fish worth more than £280 million. He said “Our agreement with the EU secures valuable opportunities for the UK fishing industry while cementing our joint commitment to manage fisheries sustainably. The increase enables us to back the fishing industry across the country with a landmark £100m investment in infrastructure, skills and better scientific data so that our industry thrives for generations to come.”
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Sorry to burst your bubble again, due to taste the majority of stuff we catch was exported to the EU (75%) and the majority of the fish we eat are imported. How did leaving the customs union/single market help shift fresh produce?
 
tommytwojags said:
Exports to the UAE up 41%. Total exports to Gulf countries were worth £624.5million last year and continue to grow. Trade with the Far East is the highest ever, creating a positive trade balance of £121million on whisky and other spirits, plus butter and cheese. Fish sales up by 560%. Singapore wine sales up 24%. Gin sales up by 56%. Why are some people so disappointed at higher than expected sales figures? Is it because they want the UK to fail so they can say I told you so?
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This looks like good news, I’m happy we’re increasing trade with these countries.

However, it only took a quick google to see that it isn’t that rosy, and won’t be for some time. Every advanced economy had a major trade downturn at the start of the pandemic but all the other economies have bounced back to pre-pandemic levels and ours hasn’t, in fact we’re lagging far behind.

Nobody is happy about this or wants the UK to fail. This is why people are angry, because it didn’t need to happen and people are worse off for it. What we were told was going to happen hasn’t happened because it was bullshit, bullshit that people believed and now we’re in the shit.

You shouldn’t be shocked that people are angry about the situation we find ourselves in, they have every right to be.
 
Shandypants said:
Sorry to burst your bubble again, due to taste the majority of stuff we catch was exported to the EU (75%) and the majority of the fish we eat are imported. How did leaving the customs union/single market help shift fresh produce?
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I think you're missing the point again. The fishing deal for the next 12 months which was finalised between London and Brussels last week means that the UK will be allowed to catch an extra 110,000 tonnes of fish than when we were in the EU. It doesn't matter whether the quota amount are exported or sold domestically. This is additional revenue which would not have existed had we been in the EU.
 
tommytwojags said:
I think you're missing the point again. The fishing deal for the next 12 months which was finalised between London and Brussels last week means that the UK will be allowed to catch an extra 110,000 tonnes of fish than when we were in the EU. It doesn't matter whether the quota amount are exported or sold domestically. This is additional revenue which would not have existed had we been in the EU.
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An industry that creates 0.1 of the UKs GDP isn't very significant but lets anslyse your claims. Firstly our quotas were sold off to a few wealthy individuals/families (a consistent theme in the UK) Fish stocks have been managed better over the last 19 years so recent quotas have gone up across the board and the figure quotes was also the figure of recent years. (See attached article that debunks your claims)
You cannot ignore the issue of exporting fresh fish to the EU.
www.thenationalnews.com

Is the UK really allowed to catch more fish because of Brexit?

British politicians have made bold claims about the results of negotiations, but the reality is far more nuanced
www.thenationalnews.com www.thenationalnews.com

If these are the benefits, then it's a business disaster. if I were you I'd start defending brexit for political reasons because the trading arrangements do not hold any shred of credibility.
 
Shandypants said:
If these are the benefits, then it's a business disaster. if I were you I'd start defending brexit for political reasons because the trading arrangements do not hold any shred of credibility.
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I make these points merely as an indication of how yourself and a handful of other posters on here relish any hint of the UK struggling economically. Is it a political point you are trying to make or do you genuinely find the UK's travails a reason for gloating? The world is going through crises of all kinds including economically and the UK is no exception. In due course it will prevail as always, but I wonder if that will disappoint you? Anything that appears to be bad news seems to set your tail wagging, while good news is met with ridicule. Meanwhile, I and most others welcome positive news with enthusiasm. Personally I don't care which political party is in government so long as my country is progressing. Half-empty glass apologists I can do without.
 
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tommytwojags said:
I make these points merely as an indication of how yourself and a handful of other posters on here relish any hint of the UK struggling economically. Is it a political point you are trying to make or do you genuinely find the UK's travails a reason for gloating? The world is going through crises of all kinds including economically and the UK is no exception. In due course it will prevail as always, but I wonder if that will disappoint you? Anything that appears to be bad news seems to set your tail wagging, while good news is met with ridicule. Meanwhile, I and most others welcome positive news with enthusiasm and personally I don't care which political party is in government so long as my country is progressing. Half-empty glass apologists I can do without.
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I am pointing out that you are over egging very minor trade deals whilst completely and utterly ignoring the massive drop in our trade with our nearest and biggest market. You can try and deflect by childishly claiming that's gloating or I'm relishing the UK is failing. I have a child who is a UK resident, I'm desperate for it to do well and couldnt care less who is in govt if that is achieved. What I can't abide is cult like people (the real problem) burying their head in the sand with pathetic and silly "good news stories" about wine exports to Singapore and embellished fishing figures. They are peanuts, you fiddle whilst Rome burns and I'll continue to ask pertinent questions, blind faith is not the answer.
 
Shandypants said:
Who the feck wants the UK to fail, grow up. Fish exports up 560%. That's not total figures is it? It'll be a figure based on exports to somewhere like Albabia comparing figures from 1833 to 2022. Embarrassing nonsense .
Positive trade balance of 121m absolutely pittance figures. Singapore wine sales up 21% wow how much are we sending in total.
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We pay pensioners 2 billion a week. £121 million in sales might bring in £1 million in tax revenue.

You must know these pittance amounts compared to the billions we've lost in sales to the EU don't compare.

As we're always told, wake up and smell the coffee.
 
Brexit will cost the UK economy about 4% of GDP for the foreseeable future. That is the estimate of the OBR who are a neutral body. That is the big news. Tiny trade deals with far flung countries don't change this.
We need a new frictionless trade deal with Europe, Johnson's deal is terrible for the UK. The price of a free trade deal will be freedom of movement which would lessen the shortages of labour that we are experiencing. I'm afraid that is the reality of the situation. It has nothing to do with gloating, it's just addressing the situation honestly.

www.cer.eu

The cost of Brexit to June 2022

My latest update estimates Brexit reduced Britain's GDP by 5.5 per cent by the second quarter of 2022. My model avoids the cherry-picking of data, and performs better than its critics’ methods.
www.cer.eu www.cer.eu
 
Four of the biggest culprits together and none seem able to explain why good economic news keeps being riduculed. We all know what happened six years ago and that it was expensive for this country. What is the point of incessantly repeating it? That was the trade off chosen by the electorate to achieve separation from what Michael Portillo described as "government of the UK by the unaccountable and undemocratic."

Whether or not the brexit vote was the right decision is no more relevant than whether it was right that Boris Johnson should succeed against Jeremy Corbyn in the 2019 general election, because it's a fact and is now irrevocable history. To keep saying it was the wrong decision is meaningless. Better surely to stop looking backwards and wondering what might have been and instead look forward to improving the situation for us all. That improvement will come over time and the point of the OP was to reflect upon some early signs of compromise and collaboration. The rest will inevitably follow in due course.
 
tommytwojags said:
Four of the biggest culprits together and none seem able to explain why good economic news keeps being riduculed. We all know what happened six years ago and that it was expensive for this country. What is the point of incessantly repeating it? That was the trade off chosen by the electorate to achieve separation from what Michael Portillo described as "government of the UK by the unaccountable and undemocratic."

Whether or not the brexit vote was the right decision is no more relevant than whether it was right that Boris Johnson should succeed against Jeremy Corbyn in the 2019 general election, because it's a fact and is now irrevocable history. To keep saying it was the wrong decision is meaningless. Better surely to stop looking backwards and wondering what might have been and instead look forward to improving the situation for us all. That improvement will come over time and the point of the OP was to reflect upon some early signs of compromise and collaboration. The rest will inevitably follow in due course.
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This is pretty disingenuous stuff, even for you. The question of whether Brexit is/ was the "right" thing matters far more than most because it will have an impact over generations, not years.

You make glib noises about how it will all somehow work in the end ; you really are setting a lot of store by these tiny deals with small countries, aren't you? I have to wonder why you do that but never try to assess the damage caused by us voluntarily shutting ourselves out of the truly global market on our doorstep.

Like many who voted to leave, you find it hard to admit you were naive, and you were conned. In years to come, our future generations will wonder how you could possibly be so reckless with their future. I just hope you feel a modicum of shame and embarrassment about it when they ask you what you were thinking of. If indeed there was any rational thought involved at all.
 
tommytwojags said:
Four of the biggest culprits together and none seem able to explain why good economic news keeps being riduculed. We all know what happened six years ago and that it was expensive for this country. What is the point of incessantly repeating it? That was the trade off chosen by the electorate to achieve separation from what Michael Portillo described as "government of the UK by the unaccountable and undemocratic."

Whether or not the brexit vote was the right decision is no more relevant than whether it was right that Boris Johnson should succeed against Jeremy Corbyn in the 2019 general election, because it's a fact and is now irrevocable history. To keep saying it was the wrong decision is meaningless. Better surely to stop looking backwards and wondering what might have been and instead look forward to improving the situation for us all. That improvement will come over time and the point of the OP was to reflect upon some early signs of compromise and collaboration. The rest will inevitably follow in due course.
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I have explained it all in my post and I didn't ridicule anything.
The deals that you have mentioned are minute compared to the 4% (at least) GDP hit that we are currently experiencing because of the terrible deal that Johnson negotiated.
I am interested in moving forward and the way forward is to renegotiate a free-trade deal with the EU which will involve re-introducing freedom of movement. We can do all of this and remain outside of the EU, like Switzerland and Norway are. This is the sensible, sane way forward that both respects the Brexit result and the many businesses that are suffering now because of this madness. Pretending that everything is OK is at best dishonest and at worst delusional.
 
We ended up with a hard Brexit that no one had advised was on the cards, that suited a small cadre of self interested people who no doubt, did very well out of it.

Trumpeting we've made a deal of a few million doesn't lessen the damage that has been done, both economically and politically.

Anyway, there was absolutely no reason why we couldn't have done the same deal from within the EU.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I have explained it all in my post and I didn't ridicule anything.
The deals that you have mentioned are minute compared to the 4% (at least) GDP hit that we are currently experiencing because of the terrible deal that Johnson negotiated.
I am interested in moving forward and the way forward is to renegotiate a free-trade deal with the EU which will involve re-introducing freedom of movement. We can do all of this and remain outside of the EU, like Switzerland and Norway are. This is the sensible, sane way forward that both respects the Brexit result and the many businesses that are suffering now because of this madness. Pretending that everything is OK is at best dishonest and at worst delusional.
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The deals mentioned are minute but form part of the future economic strategy. Take Malaysia for example, a member of the CPTPP which is a significantly bigger trading group than the EU, worth more than $13 trillion and 14% of global GDP even without the US, and without the political agenda of the EU. Perhaps there is a reason for the UK to cosy up with Malaysia.

I agree with the rest of your post and you are right to point to the way forward. I don't believe anyone is pretending everything is OK. Every country in the world is suffering at present, the UK less than several countries even within the EU.
 
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basilrobbie3 said:
This is pretty disingenuous stuff, even for you. The question of whether Brexit is/ was the "right" thing matters far more than most because it will have an impact over generations, not years.

You make glib noises about how it will all somehow work in the end ; you really are setting a lot of store by these tiny deals with small countries, aren't you? I have to wonder why you do that but never try to assess the damage caused by us voluntarily shutting ourselves out of the truly global market on our doorstep.

Like many who voted to leave, you find it hard to admit you were naive, and you were conned. In years to come, our future generations will wonder how you could possibly be so reckless with their future. I just hope you feel a modicum of shame and embarrassment about it when they ask you what you were thinking of. If indeed there was any rational thought involved at all.
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Really Robbie? Your posts are becoming more and more bizarre. An unfortunate example of those who want voters (the majority) to make some kind of confession of culpability for wanting to brexit. Are you really asking the majority to "feel a modicum of shame and embarrassment" about expressing their wish to leave the EU? Yus guv, I was conned by those sneaky politicians. They put some writing on a bus and I didn't know what to do. Maybe an hour or two of self-flagellation will help put things right. You remind me of the pompous butler in Upstairs Downstairs.
 
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ElBurroSinNombre said:
The deals that you have mentioned are minute compared to the 4% (at least) GDP hit that we are currently experiencing because of the terrible deal that Johnson negotiated.
I am interested in moving forward and the way forward is to renegotiate a free-trade deal with the EU which will involve re-introducing freedom of movement. We can do all of this and remain outside of the EU, like Switzerland and Norway are.
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My feeling is that 4% will increase as the losses to EU trade and structural factors such as declining investment bite further.
Regarding the alternate deals, a New Statesman journalist does “not regard the Norwegian or Swiss models, which entail full or partial membership of the European single market, as optimal for the UK. This is partly because I am a realist about whether either major party could ever reintroduce full free movement of people and partly because, on financial regulation in particular, it is inconceivable that the UK could accept rule-taking in the way Norway does.”
I read elsewhere that the EU would strongly resist a deal along the lines of Switzerland.
But what do I know? And I think this is the problem, such a far reaching and complex issue put to a 50:50 vote where absolute nonsense and lies such as the bus and mass Turkish immigration can be paraded as fact. Contrast that with the requirements needed for the RCN to be able call a strike. I wonder who exactly is 'taking back control'?
 
Newholland said:
I hope he’s 50% correct, can you guarantee he’s not 100% correct...
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People like Trammo have been saying stuff like this for years, they change the date to suite. Nobody can guarantee anything. Hope is one thing, prediction quite another.
 
Brazil said:
People like Trammo have been saying stuff like this for years, they change the date to suite. Nobody can guarantee anything. Hope is one thing, prediction quite another.
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With answer like that, you’re clearly wasted on here... consider politics 😉😁
 
John Craven's Newsround said:
Well, well, well @tommytwojags - I bet even you didn't think you would catch so many bitter and twisted Remainer fish in your net.

Good work, although it looks like most of them are still kicking and screaming - you would have thought they might have moved on after 6+ years.
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He has an Irish passport and revels in the UK's economic demise so best left alone. The Brexit damage is so bad, it speaks for itself.
 
John Craven's Newsround said:
Well, well, well @tommytwojags - I bet even you didn't think you would catch so many bitter and twisted Remainer fish in your net.

Good work, although it looks like most of them are still kicking and screaming - you would have thought they might have moved on after 6+ years.
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Personally I find it wonderful watching someone trying to polish the Brexit turd. It's truly comical.

Shame the balance of trade post Brexit isn't quite so amusing.
 
John Craven's Newsround said:
Well, well, well @tommytwojags - I bet even you didn't think you would catch so many bitter and twisted Remainer fish in your net.

Good work, although it looks like most of them are still kicking and screaming - you would have thought they might have moved on after 6+ years.
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Does the same principle apply to 12 years of tory rule? Move on, it's done just accept everything.
 
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