Budget gaslighting

Wizaard

Wizaard

Well-known member
Inflation is falling because of what we've done...nothing said about why it was through the roof at that point.

When the PM and I took over (as if it was a completely different party in charge)

We're all about cutting taxes (the tax rate is at the highest its been in 70+ years).

Completely shameless.
 
The whole thing is a farce and someone needs to get a grip and stop pretending these fiscal rules mean anything. Media parroting lines about "headroom". As the head of the OBR said 'I'd call it a work of fiction but at least someone has to bother to sit down and write fiction"

He has to show debt is falling by 2028 so his new plan is borrowing goes up every year and then magically it falls by just enough in the final year to make numbers add up on a spreadsheet somewhere and everyone pretends this is a normal, healthy way to talk about things. Public services crumbling and we have a fake Chancellor playing fantasy economics with made up rules presented as iron clad securities that means absolutely nothing and the worst thing of all is Labour don't dare change anything about it.

Sunak was right, someone needs to break the consensus. He was just obviously lying about it being him.
 
They know they are going to struggle at the GE. None of this matters ultimately to them, other than it may lessen the blow,

I'm sure anything that isn't reversed, because its just not feasible.. will be attacked by the Tories in opposition, in the hope people forget it was them that implemented it.
 
foggy said:
The whole thing is a farce and someone needs to get a grip and stop pretending these fiscal rules mean anything. Media parroting lines about "headroom". As the head of the OBR said 'I'd call it a work of fiction but at least someone has to bother to sit down and write fiction"

He has to show debt is falling by 2028 so his new plan is borrowing goes up every year and then magically it falls by just enough in the final year to make numbers add up on a spreadsheet somewhere and everyone pretends this is a normal, healthy way to talk about things. Public services crumbling and we have a fake Chancellor playing fantasy economics with made up rules presented as iron clad securities that means absolutely nothing and the worst thing of all is Labour don't dare change anything about it.

Sunak was right, someone needs to break the consensus. He was just obviously lying about it being him.
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Yep, the interview between Evan Davis and Laura Trott regarding debt as a percentage against GDP, in which Trott wrongly claimed it was going down over a 5 year period, was worrying on several counts.

Either Trott could not grasp simple economics - which as Chief secretary to the Treasury is extremely concerning - or she was being disingenuous for a reason: because admitting that debt was rising would invalidate the proposed tax rise as debt needs to be falling as one of their own `fiscal rules`.

"You know the very powerful and the very stupid share one thing in common - they don`t alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views." - Dr Who.

Hard to say which one Trott is...
 
Non-dom status rules to be changed from next year. Wonder how that affects the non-dom wife of the PM?
 
They just said on Sky, in effect, that the Budget amounted to a magician's hat with no rabbit in it. Which is as good a description as any. My first response was "is that it?".

There is some good news on levelling up for the North East and for Speke. But balanced against significant further support for places like Canary Wharf and Cambridge, who arguably don't really need it.

2p on NI is all very well, but I think it works out at £18 a week for a married couple. Not really life changing, is it?

There was some interesting stuff about NHS productivity and pension regulation, but we all know this lot will be gone long before any of it ever happens. The underlying position is that growth is going to be low, debt as a proportion of GDP will go up even from the eye watering levels we have now and the overall tax burden will remain the highest we have had since WW2.

Pretty shaming for a Tory Government, and it sounded to me as though they have just run out of ideas.
 
TSSeasider said:
IF I was in charge I wouldn't tinker too much but I would do the following.

Raise thresholds across the board by 5%

Change the taper on child benefit to start at £70k.

As those changes would stimulate spending rather than saving.

I'd introduce a vape tax as that's easy to sell it as "pricing out kids" which would be used to pay for the above.

And not much else as it's a bit tight at the minute and you wouldn't want to spook the market.
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I hadn't seen the non-Dom stuff coming but the rest of it was to be expected.

But you are right; the use of language to distance this government from the previous ones - even if they are the same party is pure politics.
 
Slightly below the radar is the Budget announcement to change the tax rules governing furnished holiday lets and remove CGT and income tax reliefs. This looks like being a massive issue for business owners in resorts like Blackpool and an invitation by the government to change holiday accommodation into houses of multiple occupation, or should I say holiday resorts into multi-occupation ghettos.
 
tommytwojags said:
Slightly below the radar is the Budget announcement to change the tax rules governing furnished holiday lets and remove CGT and income tax reliefs. This looks like being a massive issue for business owners in resorts like Blackpool and an invitation by the government to change holiday accommodation into houses of multiple occupation, or should I say holiday resorts into multi-occupation ghettos.
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That bit sounded like an attack on the growing air bnb sector to me which I imagine is going pretty unregulated.

It should be brought in line with other rented accommodation and really be treated like a HMO with fire regs and security measures.
 
Still no change on tax thresholds, which will be a far bigger burden on tax payers of all ages than a reduction in NI which isn't paid by the unemployed and pensioners at all.

As wages go up, then more tax will be paid because the threshold hasn't moved.
 
Some good news that £1 million will be spent on a Muslim War Memorial. That will go down well.
 
Chunkylad said:
That bit sounded like an attack on the growing air bnb sector to me which I imagine is going pretty unregulated.

It should be brought in line with other rented accommodation and really be treated like a HMO with fire regs and security measures.
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Spot on, as well as reducing the homeless figures of course. Unfortunately highly regulated businesses like mine are going to be punished more than the pop-up unregulated AirBnB places.
 
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This is purely anecdotal but everyone I know would have rather paid 2p more in NI to help fund the NHS. Only the rich benefit from shite public services whereas just about everybody on this board depends on them. For balance, Starmer claiming 'the national credit card is maxxed out' I have never heard such pathetic drivel in my life, bar all the other clowns that have used the phrase. We are truly between a rock and a hard place, the silent majority is on the left.
 
So Rishi's wife has sorted out trusts so her non dom status is now unnecessary. And Hunt has dropped CGT on property so his 7 flats are now worth 8 when he sells them. And anyone earning less than the tax threshold is worse off with inflation. And child allowance changes help those over £50K salary.

Why didn't he just stand up in Parliament and do a Marjorie Taylor Green and tell the poor people to Fxxx off? At least that wpuld have been honest.
 
Wizaard said:
Still no change on tax thresholds, which will be a far bigger burden on tax payers of all ages than a reduction in NI which isn't paid by the unemployed and pensioners at all.

As wages go up, then more tax will be paid because the threshold hasn't moved.
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The tax thresholds will have to go up at some stage in the future…no Government will allow itself to be the one who taxes the state pension….
 
tommytwojags said:
Spot on, as well as reducing the homeless figures of course. Unfortunately already highly regulated businesses like mine are going to be punished more than the pop-up unregulated AirBnB places.
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Allegedly to encourage longer term rentals, helping the locals to stay there. Not quite clear how.
 
Hunt at it again on the Today Programme this morning.

Challenged robustly by Amil Rajan about the state of public services, he said that the criticism was "unworthy of the BBC".

Presumably he was rattled when Rajan expressed some scepticism about the NHS productivity savings that Hunt was claiming would be delivered under the Budget and reminded him that similar bold claims had been made by the Health Secretary ** in 2013 and had failed to materialise.

** Have a guess who that was.
 
Worth a read. I listened to this guy's interview with James O'Brien on Full Disclosure, also well worth a listen in Spotify. Former city trader turned against the greed and argued for wealth distribution. Uphill task I know.

article in guardian yesterday linked here. Also worth reading. Think we are all ****** unless we take action. We keep sucking up the pain.
www.theguardian.com

Take it from a former banker: the budget is for ordinary people. The mega-rich look on and laugh | Gary Stevenson

Whatever Jeremy Hunt says, traders know the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. And they’re paid millions to bet on it, says the author Gary Stevenson
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
bill40 said:
This is purely anecdotal but everyone I know would have rather paid 2p more in NI to help fund the NHS. Only the rich benefit from shite public services whereas just about everybody on this board depends on them. For balance, Starmer claiming 'the national credit card is maxxed out' I have never heard such pathetic drivel in my life, bar all the other clowns that have used the phrase. We are truly between a rock and a hard place, the silent majority is on the left.
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The 'credit card' analogy was Starmer's way of couching in day-to-day terms the fact that debt as a proportion of GDP is currently 97.6% rising to 98.8% by the end of the year. In that way it helps to get across to people an otherwise opaque subject. However, this use of a domestic term to explain an issue of macro-economics is not justifiable. It's the same type of language that had Thatcher talking about the need to balance the family budget. Nation-States don't work like family budgets or retail credit facilities.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
The 'credit card' analogy was Starmer's way of couching in day-to-day terms the fact that debt as a proportion of GDP is currently 97.6% rising to 98.8% by the end of the year. In that way it helps to get across to people an otherwise opaque subject. However, this use of a domestic term to explain an issue of macro-economics is not justifiable. It's the same type of language that had Thatcher talking about the need to balance the family budget. Nation-States don't work like family budgets or retail credit facilities.
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The utterly pathetic credit card anology doesn't help explain anything and he'd do far better talking like a grown ass adult instead of patronising people. As you will have gathered it grinds my gears!
 
1966_and_all_that said:
The 'credit card' analogy was Starmer's way of couching in day-to-day terms the fact that debt as a proportion of GDP is currently 97.6% rising to 98.8% by the end of the year. In that way it helps to get across to people an otherwise opaque subject. However, this use of a domestic term to explain an issue of macro-economics is not justifiable. It's the same type of language that had Thatcher talking about the need to balance the family budget. Nation-States don't work like family budgets or retail credit facilities.
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As you will agree austerity was a disaster and has done untold damage to our country and it was sold to people under false pretences similar to the language Keir Starmer used yesterday. It is shameful that Labour are continuing the same consensus of fantasy economics. This is the narrative that helped the Tories win 4 elections in a row and led to stupid attacks like 'magic money tree' that helped cause Labour to lose all 4.

This language is dangerous and makes everyone stupider. It benefits us all, and especially Labour, if they were to leave it behind and commit to reforming the way we run and talk about the economy. Ditch lazy, infectious comparisons like 'maxing out the credit card', and scrap or radically alter these fantasy fiscal rules.

There is a timebomb coming in the latter half of this decade which no party is talking about. The current projected numbers don't add up and anyone in Westminster with a brain knows it. Huge capital spending cuts would be needed to make it work. Huge cuts at a time when we can't get doctors appointments, trains don't run on time, rape victims are failing to get court dates, prisons are overcrowded, we are falling behind on our net zero ambitions, our rivers are full of sewage... I could go on. The projected cuts are just not possible. What has to happen and what will happen is massive tax rises. Labour has to start setting the table for that, to show people how unavoidable they are. They do that by telling the truth, peeling back the curtain, and properly showing the people of this country how fucked we are. Stupid phrases about credit cards are easy to grab band aids that only make the job harder in the long run
 
bill40 said:
This is purely anecdotal but everyone I know would have rather paid 2p more in NI to help fund the NHS. Only the rich benefit from shite public services whereas just about everybody on this board depends on them. For balance, Starmer claiming 'the national credit card is maxxed out' I have never heard such pathetic drivel in my life, bar all the other clowns that have used the phrase. We are truly between a rock and a hard place, the silent majority is on the left.
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Yep, quotes coming from Starmer are basically mildly right wing.
 
Truss offered tax cuts based on future growth which has no basis in reality, Hunt delivers reduction in NI based on some future unspecified cuts to public spending which means cuts to services we all benefit from. All he has done slow down the rate of increase of taxes not reversed them. Highest tax burden on country in last 70 years which is going to increase for rest of the decade, this from the party of low taxes.
IMO not much difference between them only the markets will lap up Hunts approach as he can control cuts to spending but Truss had no control over the majority of forces which lead to growth.
Both cut from the same cloth govern for the few not the majority
 
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