By elections

Lytham_fy8 said:
Even after 2019 Starmer campaigned on the promise that he would continue Corbyn's economic policies, he was elected as a left winger, now like you said, he's just aimlessly drifting more and more to the centre without any real direction apart from don't fuck it up before the election and say virtually nothing of any consequence.

'I will maintain our radical values and work tirelessly to get Labour in to power. Based on the moral case for socialism, here is where I stand.” he uttered, then refused to back workers, even to the point of warning the rest of his MPs not to show public support either.
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It’s disappointingly true. They have a chance to grab the reigns and do great things, but Starmer is so very uninspiring.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Even after 2019 Starmer campaigned on the promise that he would continue Corbyn's economic policies, he was elected as a left winger, now like you said, he's just aimlessly drifting more and more to the centre without any real direction apart from don't fuck it up before the election and say virtually nothing of any consequence.

'I will maintain our radical values and work tirelessly to get Labour in to power. Based on the moral case for socialism, here is where I stand.” he uttered, then refused to back workers, even to the point of warning the rest of his MPs not to show public support either.
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Starmer's another Blair, he will sway whichever way the wind is blowing.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Yep the rise of the far right with 8% of the vote in Tamworth smashing the liberals and the Greens

You must be worried about that
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Tactical voting. It's the Tories who are worried. Voters are far less devoted to one party than they used to be. The prevailing vote now is anti-Tory. Labour will profit mightily, votes will be more focused towards them in all winnable seats at the GE. Conservatives will have inevitable voices telling them to move towards the Reform vote, a tiny fraction of the UK populus. If they do, they are doomed.
 
foggy said:
Tactical voting. It's the Tories who are worried. Voters are far less devoted to one party than they used to be. The prevailing vote now is anti-Tory. Labour will profit mightily, votes will be more focused towards them in all winnable seats at the GE. Conservatives will have inevitable voices telling them to move towards the Reform vote, a tiny fraction of the UK populus. If they do, they are doomed.
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Maybe but if you add that to to 41% the Tories got then they would have held it

Its interesting though as shows that people are still very worried about immigration and the recent violent protests in London won't help this

I do agree that everything at the moment is anti Tory, although I'm not sure you can build a manifesto based on just not being Tory
 
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Phil_bfc deux said:
Maybe but if you add that to to 41% the Tories got then they would have held it

Its interesting though as shows that people are still very worried about immigration

I do agree that everything at the moment is anti Tory, although I'm not sure you can build a manifesto based on just not being Tory
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Possibly. I think it is unrealistic to say every single Reform vote would go to the Tories if there was some sort of pact. And even then, it would likely be in recount territory for both of those elections last night. But I'm being a bit pedantic. Even if the Tories just held on to what were once massive majorities that would indicate a large Labour majority at the GE. I am keeping an eye on if Reform gives way to the Tories, but it doesn't seem like they will. They exist for a reason, because they don't think the Tories are being right wing enough, and if the Tories try to move more to the right wing, they will alienate their soft right support. This is their problem. The centre/left are voting tactically regardless so Labour so far doesn't have this issue. There is no left wing Reform party (and no, Corbyn isn't creating one).

Labour have more policies than they get credit for, although I hardly see them as offering a transformative image of Britain. Nevertheless they are trouncing the Tories in the polls and that is now backed up by local council elections and several by-elections. They are also, interestingly, fighting back against the SNP. I have no doubt Labour would win the next GE just by being boring men in suits who sound a bit competent. It is literally happening as we speak. Campaign is still a long way away, let's see what their manifesto ends up looking like.
 
foggy said:
Possibly. I think it is unrealistic to say every single Reform vote would go to the Tories if there was some sort of pact. And even then, it would likely be in recount territory for both of those elections last night. But I'm being a bit pedantic. Even if the Tories just held on to what were once massive majorities that would indicate a large Labour majority at the GE. I am keeping an eye on if Reform gives way to the Tories, but it doesn't seem like they will. They exist for a reason, because they don't think the Tories are being right wing enough, and if the Tories try to move more to the right wing, they will alienate their soft right support. This is their problem. The centre/left are voting tactically regardless so Labour so far doesn't have this issue. There is no left wing Reform party (and no, Corbyn isn't creating one).

Labour have more policies than they get credit for, although I hardly see them as offering a transformative image of Britain. Nevertheless they are trouncing the Tories in the polls and that is now backed up by local council elections and several by-elections. They are also, interestingly, fighting back against the SNP. I have no doubt Labour would win the next GE just by being boring men in suits who sound a bit competent. It is literally happening as we speak. Campaign is still a long way away, let's see what their manifesto ends up looking like.
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Yep that's a decent post

I do still think that Labour could end up shooting themselves in the foot with the way they are moving to the centre thus alienating the left and moving away somewhat from some of their historic core values

I don't think the political spectrum has every been as confused as what it is now

A General Election won't be called until probably January 25 so there is a long way to go

Anything could happen
 
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Phil_bfc deux said:
Yep that's a decent post

I do still think that Labour could end up shooting themselves in the foot with the way they are moving to the centre thus alienating the left and moving away somewhat from some of their historic core values

A General Election won't be called until probably January 25 so there is a long way to go

Anything could happen
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I think Labour is holding extremely steady. They've expelled a lot of troublemakers and been very thorough in their candidate selection. It's the Blairites party again, and he held it together for nearly two decades. However, I will never underestimate the ability of the left wing and the Labour party to destroy itself with in-fighting. It's what we do best.

I think Oct is the betting favourite. Cant see them getting much extra benefit of an extra three months, and the downside is how much it will piss people off by them clinging to power as long as possible despite massive unpopularity, and of course a winter of 'NHS crisis worst its ever been!' headlines and presumably high energy bills.
 
Starmer is, by all accounts, very ruthless. In this situation winning is everything and he will do whatever it takes. Appearing to be a centrist is a part of this. He should do whatever it takes as we cannot have another 5 year Conservative shit show.
Give him a chance and judge him on what he does in power. GB energy is a good idea and other policies look promising. Reeves exudes competence and is a real economist who worked at the BoE. I would love a quietly competent government who repair some of the problems we currently have. He lacks a big unified vision but I would give him a chance, he's not going to put it all out there at this time.

Btw, has Curryman got a crush on Rayner or something. There is no chance of her becoming leader, Reeves maybe, Streeting or Burnham favourites after Starmer steps down for me.
 
Wizaard said:
They threw out an individual who made an anti semitic comment. Therefore the party is not anti semitic. Don't know why you're struggling with that.
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It was more than that and you know it

I don't know why you are struggling with what the Equality and Human Rights Commission found, it was very clear even to the most biased and blinkered amongst us

I bet you deny the Holocaust happend as well

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you also want Corbyn to be Prime Minister?
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
It was more than that and you know it

I don't know why you are struggling with what the Equality and Human Rights Commission found, it was very clear even to the most biased and blinkered amongst us

I bet you deny the Holocaust happend as well

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you also want Corbyn to be Prime Minister?
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You've lost your bet. Holocaust denier? You're getting silly now.

I've been to Auschwitz.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Starmer is, by all accounts, very ruthless. In this situation winning is everything and he will do whatever it takes. Appearing to be a centrist is a part of this. He should do whatever it takes as we cannot have another 5 year Conservative shit show.
Give him a chance and judge him on what he does in power. GB energy is a good idea and other policies look promising. Reeves exudes competence and is a real economist who worked at the BoE. I would love a quietly competent government who repair some of the problems we currently have. He lacks a big unified vision but I would give him a chance, he's not going to put it all out there at this time.

Btw, has Curryman got a crush on Rayner or something. There is no chance of her becoming leader, Reeves maybe, Streeting or Burnham favourites after Starmer steps down for me.
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Interesting you say Rayner has no chance of becoming leader. She's the polar opposite of KS and both really aren't PM material for that. I can't imagine either at a Gwoteva summit, KS is too bland and AR too brash. The truth is they've out of power for so long that none of them are politicians.

I think Burnham is the best of those mentioned by you, still nowhere near ideal, however I'd throw in David Milliband if he could be persuaded to come back and slum it.

I honestly don't people give a monkey's about the shift to the centre, left or far right. As long as they hear policies they can relate to and look viable, that's all they care about.
 
fcblackpool said:
Interesting you say Rayner has no chance of becoming leader. She's the polar opposite of KS and both really aren't PM material for that. I can't imagine either at a Gwoteva summit, KS is too bland and AR too brash. The truth is they've out of power for so long that none of them are politicians.

I think Burnham is the best of those mentioned by you, still nowhere near ideal, however I'd throw in David Milliband if he could be persuaded to come back and slum it.

I honestly don't people give a monkey's about the shift to the centre, left or far right. As long as they hear policies they can relate to and look viable, that's all they care about.
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She is the modern day equivalent of Jon Prescott, I don't think she could become leader. I do think she has improved a lot in the last couple of years and is more credible in the front bench.
David Miliband is not interested in a political career any more, he won't be back imo. Nandy has been marginalised, a shame as she is talented.
 
Lala said:
It’s disappointingly true. They have a chance to grab the reigns and do great things, but Starmer is so very uninspiring.
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Lala, why do leaders have to be inspiring? Johnson arguably was inspiring and look where that got us. Perhaps the greatest post-war PM was Clement Attlee, under whose term in office the NHS was created, and he made Starmer look like Mr Charisma Plus.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
She is the modern day equivalent of Jon Prescott, I don't think she could become leader. I do think she has improved a lot in the last couple of years and is more credible in the front bench.
David Miliband is not interested in a political career any more, he won't be back imo. Nandy has been marginalised, a shame as she is talented.
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That's fair comment.

DM would make a good respected PM I think. H&S ( I don't) above anyone in the recent past.
 
kerrytangerine said:
Lala, why do leaders have to be inspiring? Johnson arguably was inspiring and look where that got us. Perhaps the greatest post-war PM was Clement Attlee, under whose term in office the NHS was created, and he made Starmer look like Mr Charisma Plus.
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It’s not necessarily charisma I’m looking for. It’s inspiring content in his speeches and in his policies.
As Foggy says, when Labour publish their manifesto it will be crunch-time for me, and for many of us I guess.
 
kerrytangerine said:
Lala, why do leaders have to be inspiring? Johnson arguably was inspiring and look where that got us. Perhaps the greatest post-war PM was Clement Attlee, under whose term in office the NHS was created, and he made Starmer look like Mr Charisma Plus.
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I actually liked Johnson, I'm not sure many other leaders would have got us through covid like he did

I mean if Starmer had of been in charge we would have had an even longer lock down

Look at the cluster fuck in Wales with Drakesford

Things went downhill once Johnson got stitched up by his own party
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I actually liked Johnson, I'm not sure many other leaders would have got us through covid like he did

I mean if Starmer had of been in charge we would have had an even longer lock down

Look at the cluster fuck in Wales with Drakesford

Things went downhill once Johnson got stitched up by his own party
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Like ? Johnson ?

Congratulations. You're the last remaining person in this country, who's brave enough to admit that.

Just watch Laura Kuennsbergs series on the Tory Party (still on iplayer I think).

He was an unmitigated disaster. He was good at campaigning, but couldn't deal with detail or managing people. Truss was even worse than him.

I liked Cameron and Theresa, and also John Major and William Hague.

But Johnson ????????

You should repost your comments on the Friday joke thread. It'll break the record for likes!
 
Ollygon said:
Like ? Johnson ?

Congratulations. You're the last remaining person in this country, who's brave enough to admit that.

Just watch Laura Kuennsbergs series on the Tory Party (still on iplayer I think).

He was an unmitigated disaster. He was good at campaigning, but couldn't deal with detail or managing people. Truss was even worse than him.

I liked Cameron and Theresa, and also John Major and William Hague.

But Johnson ????????

You should repost your comments on the Friday joke thread. It'll break the record for likes!
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Well I voted Boris simply to stop Commie Corbyn getting in so stick that in yer pipe.

And it worked. 👍😊
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I actually liked Johnson, I'm not sure many other leaders would have got us through covid like he did

I mean if Starmer had of been in charge we would have had an even longer lock down

Look at the cluster fuck in Wales with Drakesford

Things went downhill once Johnson got stitched up by his own party
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tbh mate we've no idea what COVID would have been like under Labour.

I doubt they would have had such a flippant approach to the feeling of the country though.

And I doubt contracts for mates or self through the backdoor would be dished out.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Well I voted Boris simply to stop Commie Corbyn getting in so stick that in yer pipe.

And it worked. 👍😊
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So you lived in the Uxbridge constituency in 2019 then

BTW I hated Corbyn too but I voted Lib Dem.

I remember Lying Bastard and Grease Knob when they were on HIGNFY.

Once seen never trusted again.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I actually liked Johnson, I'm not sure many other leaders would have got us through covid like he did

I mean if Starmer had of been in charge we would have had an even longer lock down

Look at the cluster fuck in Wales with Drakesford

Things went downhill once Johnson got stitched up by his own party
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You have now conclusively lost the plot! Your response will probably be you are entitled to your opinion. However, after these comments, nobody will take your posts seriously again. Johnson was a compulsive liar, totally devoid of a moral compass. To suggest you liked him is a sign that a yellow van will soon be visiting your home!
 
Someone may have already commented on this, but the Tory candidate at Tamworth, Andrew Cooper arrived late for the result, and skulked off through the back door when the result was announced.

This is the same nice man who told food bank users to fuck off.

Class act. Shame he lost. Parliament would have been the better with him in the Chamber
 
EPM46 said:
You have now conclusively lost the plot! Your response will probably be you are entitled to your opinion. However, after these comments, nobody will take your posts seriously again. Johnson was a compulsive liar, totally devoid of a moral compass. To suggest you liked him is a sign that a yellow van will soon be visiting your home!
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Well he managed Covid in England a lot better than Drakesford did in Wales
 
fcblackpool said:
tbh mate we've no idea what COVID would have been like under Labour.

I doubt they would have had such a flippant approach to the feeling of the country though.

And I doubt contracts for mates or self through the backdoor would be dished out.
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We have a good idea given how Labour wanted to extend the lockdown and the clusterfuck the Labour government in Wales caused
 
EPM46 said:
You have now conclusively lost the plot! Your response will probably be you are entitled to your opinion. However, after these comments, nobody will take your posts seriously again. Johnson was a compulsive liar, totally devoid of a moral compass. To suggest you liked him is a sign that a yellow van will soon be visiting your home!
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Don't back off on Phil

He has to be continually confronted. Otherwise in has addled brain he thinks he's right.

Like the yellow van reference by the way. There's a couple more on here who could go in it as well. If we have to pay I'll go halves with you. We may even be able to negotiate a discount- pay for 2 and get the third one free.

We could also try crowd funding. I think we could get a few contributions.
 
Ollygon said:
Someone may have already commented on this, but the Tory candidate at Tamworth, Andrew Cooper arrived late for the result, and skulked off through the back door when the result was announced.

This is the same nice man who told food bank users to fuck off.

Class act. Shame he lost. Parliament would have been the better with him in the Chamber
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I’ve seen a food bank user turn up with a crate of beer, leave it outside, collect his food parcel, pick up his crate of beer and away he went, quality👏

You lefties are crazy, we are getting fucked over by everybody.
 
no9 said:
I’ve seen a food bank user turn up with a crate of beer, leave it outside, collect his food parcel, pick up his crate of beer and away he went, quality👏

You lefties are crazy, we are getting fucked over by everybody.
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A crate of beer.?I didn't think you could buy those any more

Was he delivering for the brewery?

Why not volunteer at a food bank for a while and see the plight people are in as a result of the Tory Government's policies.

And do you think it's right to tell people who use food banks to fuck off? If so it says even more about you than the failed Tory candidate.

Now go back to your cave and please look after your knuckles. They must be very sore being dragged along the ground so much. Be careful they don't get infected. You may have to wait a while for treatment as the Tory Government have buggered up the NHS too.
 
no9 said:
I’ve seen a food bank user turn up with a cra of beer, leave it outside, collect his food parcel, pick up his crate of beer and away he went, quality👏

You lefties are crazy, we are getting fucked over by everybody.
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By the way. Just searched on your previous posts.

Your latest one is consistent with those.

It's a shame really. You seem to have problems with quite a few different groups of people.

You could do with some help. In the meantime try mindfulness. You should feel better very quickly
 
Ollygon said:
By the way. Just searched on your previous posts.

Your latest one is consistent with those.

It's a shame really. You seem to have problems with quite a few different groups of people.

You could do with some help. In the meantime try mindfulness. You should feel better very quickly
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Your what’s known as a smart arse
 
Ollygon said:
Don't back off on Phil

He has to be continually confronted. Otherwise in has addled brain he thinks he's right.

Like the yellow van reference by the way. There's a couple more on here who could go in it as well. If we have to pay I'll go halves with you. We may even be able to negotiate a discount- pay for 2 and get the third one free.

We could also try crowd funding. I think we could get a few contributions.
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So people with a different opinion need to be taken away in a yellow van

That's not very liberal of you

It does appear on this site that the left have far less tolerance of other peoples views than those who are supposed to be from the right
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I actually liked Johnson, I'm not sure many other leaders would have got us through covid like he did

I mean if Starmer had of been in charge we would have had an even longer lock down

Look at the cluster fuck in Wales with Drakesford

Things went downhill once Johnson got stitched up by his own party
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100,000 unnecessary deaths under Johnson's absolutely disastrous management. You're right. No one would have got us through like him.
 
Wizaard said:
100,000 unnecessary deaths under Johnson's absolutely disastrous management. You're right. No one would have got us through like him.
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So you are blaming Johnson for Covid

Even by your low standards that's utterly ridiculous

You do realise that the death rates per 100,000 in Wales under a Labour government were higher than England under the Conservative government
 
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Phil_bfc deux said:
So you are blaming Johnson for Covid

Even by your low standards that's utterly ridiculous

You do realise that the death rates per 100,000 in Wales under a Labour government were higher than England under the Conservative government
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You said no one could have dealt with it better. That is utterly ridiculous, as the daily outputs of the inquiry show.
 
Wizaard said:
You said no one could have dealt with it better. That is utterly ridiculous, as the daily outputs of the inquiry show.
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Have you even read what I posted

Labour in Wales did worse and when you consider the urban make up of many English cities compared to Wales the figures are disgraceful for the Welsh government
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Have you even read what I posted

Labour in Wales did worse and when you consider the urban make up of many English cities compared to Wales the figures are disgraceful for the Welsh government
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So that excuses Johnson? Jingle and mingle setting a great example.

Downing St had more fines issued than any other address in the UK.
 
Wizaard said:
So that excuses Johnson? Jingle and mingle setting a great example.

Downing St had more fines issued than any other address in the UK.
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Errr no but I'm not the one blaming Johnson for Covid deaths

I don't give a fuck if he had parties or broke rules the whole thing was ridiculous I broke Covid rules every single day and I'm glad I did

Wales 372.5 per 100,000
England 334.7 per 100,000

Remarkable when you consider the longer lockdowns and constraints for Welsh residents and Welsh businesses

Unbelievable incompetence from the Labour Welsh government who performed far worse than any other of the 4 home nations
 
I'm seeing a distinct lack of details of how Covid could've been tackled differently, bearing in mind that the various lockdown breaches were not sanctioned by ministers, and so far as we know were in fact hidden from them, and in any event they only became public knowledge after the second wave had passed.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I'm seeing a distinct lack of details of how Covid could've been tackled differently, bearing in mind that the various lockdown breaches were not sanctioned by ministers, and so far as we know were in fact hidden from them.
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And I've highlighted how poorly Welsh Labour performed

You can understand why Wizaard is so anti government must be difficult being a civil servant working for the government with a gold plated pension who would have got paid thousands of pounds of furlough money during Covid

Maybe he wanted a longer lockdown like what Labour proposed so he would have got paid more money for doing fuck all
 
Lost Seasider said:
I'm seeing a distinct lack of details of how Covid could've been tackled differently, bearing in mind that the various lockdown breaches were not sanctioned by ministers, and so far as we know were in fact hidden from them, and in any event they only became public knowledge after the second wave had passed.
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Right from the off we were saying on here that there should be a ban on flights from China.

Johnson prevaricated for at least a month by which time it was too late.

Sending people from hospitals into care homes without testing.

We all knew that at the time.

Where were you? Did you miss those conversations?
 
Lost Seasider said:
I'm seeing a distinct lack of details of how Covid could've been tackled differently, bearing in mind that the various lockdown breaches were not sanctioned by ministers, and so far as we know were in fact hidden from them, and in any event they only became public knowledge after the second wave had passed.
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Hidden from them? They were there, as we all know.
 
Wizaard said:
Right from the off we were saying on here that there should be a ban on flights from China.

Johnson prevaricated for at least a month by which time it was too late.
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The vast, vast, vast majority of cases came in from Italy, Spain and France, so that would've made precisely zero difference in the long run.

And no, we didn't know it, and we certainly weren't saying there should be a ban on flights from China.


Wizaard said:
Sending people from hospitals into care homes without testing.
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The vast majority of cases came in from the community, so again zero difference, and contrary to popular belief, testing was done whenever possible.
 
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