Clotting

Ragnarok

Well-known member
Having my second AZ jab this morning, has anyone been put off by reports of clotting?
If you're under 30 you're fucked mate...in that you are more likely to be run over by a bus than get a clot or get hit by an asteroid than die from covid.

Good luck regardless of course my friend
 

Matesrates

Well-known member
If you're under 30 you're fucked mate...in that you are more likely to be run over by a bus than get a clot or get hit by an asteroid than die from covid.

Good luck regardless of course my friend
Wish I was under 30 again, but regrettably that train left 48 years ago. Jab was fine and I feel fine.
 

TangerineBayern

Well-known member
Call it coincidence but the Moderna jab comes on line next week and that along with Pfizer will be the vaccines of choice for the U30s.
There are 10.1 million 18-29 year olds so should be enough between the two plus those yet to get MHRA approval, so end July should still be achievable 👍
 

gjr69

Well-known member
If anybody's interested: The ONS

Deaths involving COVID-19, all ages1
Persons 4
0​
Deaths by age group
0​
<1​
2​
1-4​
1​
5-9​
3​
10-14​
9​
15-19​
21​
20-24​
54​
25-29​
121​
30-34​
219​
35-39​
396​
40-44​
669​
45-49​
1310​
50-54​
2402​
55-59​
3980​
60-64​
6003​
65-69​
8137​
70-74​
12972​
75-79​
18096​
80-84​
24594​
85-89​
27028​
90+​
29543​
135560

The data is for England & Wales to 19 March and shows the total number of deaths by age group with Covid on the death certificate.

The key point is that 175 people aged 20 - 30 and 615 aged 30 - 40 died as a result of Covid in the pandemic.

So even in the least at risk groups the risk of Covid far exceeds any possible risk from the vaccine.
Going to be horrendous for the families involved but those figures tell me that if you are under 40 you are statistically very,very unlucky to die of either covid or the vaccine.
 

Seaside Aggro

Well-known member
Coincidence that it’s being stopped at just the exact time that they were estimating the supply would logjam and vaccination rate slow down 🤔
 

TSSeasider

Well-known member
It's all about chance.

The absolute chance of getting a clot is the same regardless of age. It's about 4 in 1 million, and that is a tiny risk.

The chance of getting seriously ill and death from Covid is higher, much higher, the older you are, therefore, the cost/benefit risk improves the older you get.

Under 30 appears to be the cut off point for when it becomes "not worth the risk." We've got alternatives, so of course we are going to use them?

Meanwhile, BHOK is rewriting history. Our European friends were questioning the efficacy of the vaccine for under 60's, and then the safety of vaccine to the under 60's; both of which are wrong.
 

Lost Seasider

Well-known member
Under 30 appears to be the cut off point for when it becomes "not worth the risk." We've got alternatives, so of course we are going to use them?

In fact to even get there you have to assume a very low background number of cases (about 20/100k/week) and that the vaccine benefit only lasts for 16 weeks, if you're 25 years old and German let alone French or one of the other hard hit countries the cost/benefit is very strongly in favour of the AZ vaccine.

Borrowing some of the slides from yesterday:

If you are in the UK this is the c/b:
1617908030746.png

If you are German this is the c/b
1617908048038.png

If you are French etc this is the c/b:
1617908064401.png

https://wintoncentre.maths.cam.ac.u...fits-and-harms-astra-zeneca-covid-19-vaccine/

So even if it is rational for the UK not to administer AZ to those under 30, it is irrational for the likes of France etc to do the same, and it is absolutely f***ing bonkers to limit it to over 60s.

And lets not get into the way that they have handled things generally.
 

Wizaard

Well-known member
Could karma come into play here for those who whinge about everything our government does and appreciate nothing?
Are you seriously suggesting you want fellow Blackpool fans dead?

Breathtaking comment liked by Scara of course.

That's a new low for this board.
 

bleach51

Well-known member
Oh what an irony it is now the UK faces banning the AZ jab for certain age groups after all the political froth we saw on this board when France and Germany did the same.
well I will happily be having my second AZ on the 28th...and if that makes you upset because it suits your pro EU agenda then I’m glad ...because they made it political because they screwed and wanted any excuse they could find...
 

BigHandsOliverKahn

Well-known member
well I will happily be having my second AZ on the 28th...and if that makes you upset because it suits your pro EU agenda then I’m glad ...because they made it political because they screwed and wanted any excuse they could find...
Nobody, other than those with a paranoid post-Brexit view of the EU, made it political. That's the very point. Decisions were made not to administer it for certain age groups due to the absence of test data to prove its safety, similar now to how the UK consider it prudent not to administer it to certain age groups for safety reasons. Maybe those people here that tried to make out it was all political can finally see the light.
 

Tangojoe

Well-known member
I see that the latest report by experts put the risk of blood clots from the AZ vaccine on a par with taking one aspirin. And that's only for the first dose as there is zero evidence of clotting from the second dose.
 
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Lost Seasider

Well-known member
Nobody, other than those with a paranoid post-Brexit view of the EU, made it political. That's the very point. Decisions were made not to administer it for certain age groups due to the absence of test data to prove its safety, similar now to how the UK consider it prudent not to administer it to certain age groups for safety reasons. Maybe those people here that tried to make out it was all political can finally see the light.

With respect, if you think what the UK has done is in any way comparable to the actions of Germany and France then you must be living on another planet.
 

Lost Seasider

Well-known member
Nitpicking, both placed restrictions on certain age groups for the AZ vaccine. When the EU countries did so, vaccine nationalists were out in force claiming political sabotage. Now the UK implement a restriction, all goes quiet.

Nitpicking?

In the UK an independent scientific assessment shows that for the very lowest risk group in a low background risk environment the cost/benefit is negative and have acted accordingly.

In the EU they've removed the vaccine from groups where the benefit is greater than 200 times the cost and even in the very lowest risk group still higher than that for UK 40 - 49.

Worse still is the way that they've gone about it, Macron claiming it's quasi-ineffective, the Germans briefing "8% effectiveness", von der Leyen et al shrieking about deliveries, false rumours about exports to the UK, raids on factories creating a general hysteria and then restricting the vaccine from most of the population despite the evidence.

You understand that this is going to cost lives don't you? Nevermind the effect this will have on their own shambolic vaccination programme it undermines confidence in AZ and other vaccines across the world, short of appointing a commissioner for anti-vax with a full time team dedicated to spreadign anti-vax propaganda they couldn't have handled this any worse.
 

BigHandsOliverKahn

Well-known member
Nitpicking?

In the UK an independent scientific assessment shows that for the very lowest risk group in a low background risk environment the cost/benefit is negative and have acted accordingly.

In the EU they've removed the vaccine from groups where the benefit is greater than 200 times the cost and even in the very lowest risk group still higher than that for UK 40 - 49.

Worse still is the way that they've gone about it, Macron claiming it's quasi-ineffective, the Germans briefing "8% effectiveness", von der Leyen et al shrieking about deliveries, false rumours about exports to the UK, raids on factories creating a general hysteria and then restricting the vaccine from most of the population despite the evidence.

You understand that this is going to cost lives don't you? Nevermind the effect this will have on their own shambolic vaccination programme it undermines confidence in AZ and other vaccines across the world, short of appointing a commissioner for anti-vax with a full time team dedicated to spreadign anti-vax propaganda they couldn't have handled this any worse.
Populations in the third world countries tend to be younger so the UK's decision may actually do more damage worldwide to confidence levels in the AZ vaccine than any of the precautions that were taken for the older generations.
 

Lost Seasider

Well-known member
Populations in the third world countries tend to be younger so the UK's decision may actually do more damage worldwide to confidence levels in the AZ vaccine than any of the precautions that were taken for the older generations.

You started off scraping the bottom of the barrel, moved on to grasping at straws and finally you have progressed to spouting utter nonsense out of sheer desparation.

Some light reading for you: The key difference between the British and EU approach to AstraZeneca’s vaccine

The decision by European countries to suspend the AZ vaccine for all ages continues to be wrong: there was and still is insufficient evidence to substantiate widespread harm. The suspension in other countries likely cost many more lives than it would have saved by slowing the rollout and dampening confidence in the life-saving vaccine.
 

BigHandsOliverKahn

Well-known member
You started off scraping the bottom of the barrel, moved on to grasping at straws and finally you have progressed to spouting utter nonsense out of sheer desparation.

Some light reading for you: The key difference between the British and EU approach to AstraZeneca’s vaccine

The decision by European countries to suspend the AZ vaccine for all ages continues to be wrong: there was and still is insufficient evidence to substantiate widespread harm. The suspension in other countries likely cost many more lives than it would have saved by slowing the rollout and dampening confidence in the life-saving vaccine.
You simultaneously spout your own desperate nonsense. That 8% efficacy was a misunderstanding of data by a single media outlet called Handelsblatt which was immediately trashed by all the rest of the German press and government within hours of its release.

Some people see the similarities in other people, whilst others only see the differences. If you think vaccine nationalism will beat a global pandemic, then you will be sadly disappointed.
 

Lytham_fy8

Well-known member
I can heartily recommend the Pfizer jab, both injections were a breeze and not a sniff of a side effect.

You may have to join the NHS first like but you know.....
 

Since1967

Well-known member
Won't deter me, but I am due to donate platelets the week before. I will postpone that as people with a low platelet count seem to be more like to suffer clots
 

Lost Seasider

Well-known member
You simultaneously spout your own desperate nonsense. That 8% efficacy was a misunderstanding of data by a single media outlet called Handelsblatt which was immediately trashed by all the rest of the German press and government within hours of its release.

Handelsblatt attribute the claim to a source within the federal government and you conveniently skip over Macron, von der Leyen and countless other hysterical statements coming out of the EU not to mention the small matter that not using the vaccine in under 60s is not justified by the balance of risks.

Your claim that the UK's decision to prefer another vaccine in under 30's is somehow more damaging than the EU's actions is quite frankly one of the most ludicrous statements I've ever read.

God help them if/when anyone notices a rare side-effect in Pfizer.


Some people see the similarities in other people, whilst others only see the differences. If you think vaccine nationalism will beat a global pandemic, then you will be sadly disappointed.

Are you criticising the EU now?

Brussels blocks vaccine exports in all but name
 

BigHandsOliverKahn

Well-known member
Handelsblatt attribute the claim to a source within the federal government and you conveniently skip over Macron, von der Leyen and countless other hysterical statements coming out of the EU not to mention the small matter that not using the vaccine in under 60s is not justified by the balance of risks.

Your claim that the UK's decision to prefer another vaccine in under 30's is somehow more damaging than the EU's actions is quite frankly one of the most ludicrous statements I've ever read.

God help them if/when anyone notices a rare side-effect in Pfizer.




Are you criticising the EU now?

Brussels blocks vaccine exports in all but name
I'm happy to criticise both sides. Both have shown stupidity in all of this. It's when people can't see more than one side that I tend to step in.

It's no good a single country of 66 million people having good vacination levels, or a single continent of 500 million either, if the other 7 Billion people worldwide are left unprotected. It will just keep mutating and coming back round under different guises. We already have at least 2 variants here now (Nigerian and South African) that can escape the vaccine. How many more variants in the unvaccinated parts of the world are being brewed up?
 

Lost Seasider

Well-known member
I'm happy to criticise both sides. Both have shown stupidity in all of this. It's when people can't see more than one side that I tend to step in.

In what sense have the UK shown stupidity?

It seems to me that the UK has acted wisely and correctly throughout whilst most of the EU has acted outrageously.


It's no good a single country of 66 million people having good vacination levels, or a single continent of 500 million either, if the other 7 Billion people worldwide are left unprotected. It will just keep mutating and coming back round under different guises. We already have at least 2 variants here now (Nigerian and South African) that can escape the vaccine. How many more variants in the unvaccinated parts of the world are being brewed up?

Which is why the UK has developed the Ox/AZ vaccine and made it available at cost to the entire world, what has the EU done exactly?

All of which is beside the point anyway.
 

BigHandsOliverKahn

Well-known member
In what sense have the UK shown stupidity?

It seems to me that the UK has acted wisely and correctly throughout whilst most of the EU has acted outrageously.




Which is why the UK has developed the Ox/AZ vaccine and made it available at cost to the entire world, what has the EU done exactly?

All of which is beside the point anyway.
You still seem to be getting drawn into the wrongful thinking of nationalising things. Even if nations being in it for themselves when fighting a global pandemic was the right thing to do, you still seem to completely overlook the fact that Astra Zeneca is a multinational company where half the company is owned by an EU land in Sweden! Without manufacturing in the EU, the UK wouldn't have been able to administer any doses of it either, it since transpired, and is now struggling to get enough second doses.

This is precisely what is wrong with Brexit. If we had all still been in the same boat, there wouldn't even be any of this individual nationalistic thinking which then leads to squabbling and inefficiency. Everybody would have been working together for a common goal, exactly what is needed when a pandemic is global.
 
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Matesrates

Well-known member
You still seem to be getting drawn into the wrongful thinking of nationalising things. Even if nations being in it for themselves when fighting a global pandemic was the right thing to do, you still seem to completely overlook the fact that Astra Zeneca is a multinational company where half the company is owned by an EU land in Sweden! Without manufacturing in the EU, the UK wouldn't have been able to administer any does of it either, it since transpired, and is now struggling to get enough second doses.

This is precisely what is wrong with Brexit. If we had all still been in the same boat, there wouldn't even be any of this individual nationalistic thinking which then leads to squabbling and inefficiency. Everybody would have been working together for a common goal, exactly what is needed when a pandemic is global.
Well the 27 Eu countries working together went well didn’t it.
 

BigHandsOliverKahn

Well-known member
Well the 27 Eu countries working together went well didn’t it.
Nearly all countries now have 20% of people vaccinated, and administer properly, not single doses. Compare that to the rest of the world and it looks very good. They haven't just left others behind just for their own selfish aims.
 

Lost Seasider

Well-known member
You still seem to be getting drawn into the wrongful thinking of nationalising things.

You are the one doing that, I am merely trying to ensure that the facts are straight.


Even if nations being in it for themselves when fighting a global pandemic was the right thing to do, you still seem to completely overlook the fact that Astra Zeneca is a multinational company where half the company is owned by an EU land in Sweden!

Oxford University isn't, although what any of this has to do with clotting and the behaviour of the various parties is beyond me.


Without manufacturing in the EU, the UK wouldn't have been able to administer any does of it either, it since transpired, and is now struggling to get enough second doses.

You have a source for this, because it flies in the face of my understanding of the UK's programme.


If we had all still been in the same boat, there wouldn't even be any of this individual nationalistic thinking which then leads to squabbling and inefficiency. Everybody would have been working together for a common goal, exactly what is needed when a pandemic is global.

Delusional.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...members-blocking-export-medical-supplies.html

Germany and France have been condemned by other EU members after blocking the export of medical supplies, raising the alarm among smaller countries hit by coronavirus.


You are also ignoring the rush for the Sputnik and other vaccines.
 

Matesrates

Well-known member
Nearly all countries now have 20% of people vaccinated, and administer properly, not single doses. Compare that to the rest of the world and it looks very good. They haven't just left others behind just for their own selfish aims.
They haven’t left others behind just for their own selfish aims, we’ll they block supplies to Australia.
 

Lost Seasider

Well-known member
Nearly all countries now have 20% of people vaccinated, and administer properly, not single doses. Compare that to the rest of the world and it looks very good.

This is why I have a bit of a fettish for sources when claims are made: you are lying

8 April, none of the big countries in the EU has more than 15% with even a first dose, compare that to 47% in the UK or 34% in the US, even compared to some South American countries it's terrible.

Even on your preferred "fully vaccinated" measure it's still terrible, less than 7% lagging behind the UK on 10% and let's not mention the US (20%) or Chile (24%).

Also this idea that the EU is "doing it properly", presumably you're not a member of the JCVI or otherwise an expert in the field, so I wonder on what grounds you've decided to question their decision.
 

BigHandsOliverKahn

Well-known member
This is why I have a bit of a fettish for sources when claims are made: you are lying

8 April, none of the big countries in the EU has more than 15% with even a first dose, compare that to 47% in the UK or 34% in the US, even compared to some South American countries it's terrible.

Even on your preferred "fully vaccinated" measure it's still terrible, less than 7% lagging behind the UK on 10% and let's not mention the US (20%) or Chile (24%).

Also this idea that the EU is "doing it properly", presumably you're not a member of the JCVI or otherwise an expert in the field, so I wonder on what grounds you've decided to question their decision.
You mis-read what I wrote so jumped to a wrong conclusion. The data is here. Stats

Other countries around the world will need to catch up with the selfish lands that thought grabbing vaccines first would solve this problem otherwise it won't go away.

Now you seem to have resorted to childish name calling like in Primary School, I'll be ignoring you from now on as I prefer to debate only with those who have adult behaviour.
 

cruzzer

Well-known member
You mis-read what I wrote so jumped to a wrong conclusion. The data is here. Stats

Other countries around the world will need to catch up with the selfish lands that thought grabbing vaccines first would solve this problem otherwise it won't go away.

Now you seem to have resorted to childish name calling like in Primary School, I'll be ignoring you from now on as I prefer to debate only with those who have adult behaviour.
Classic, you are going to be very lonely in your deluded world.

If you dig this hole any deeper that you’re in you’ll pop out in Oz.
 
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