Corruption in the EU Parliament

1966_and_all_that said:
It points to significant differences in the way people believe our society should be organised. I can't believe you're so dismissive of that.
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I wouldn't judge a person based on his/her opinion on whether or not we stayed in the EU.

You had somebody on the thread saying that such and such was great news for Brexiteers and nonsense like that as if there are different consequences based on how you voted in the referendum.

I can't say I voted myself and I can't say that my life has been seriously affected, I imagine that those more seriously affected would probably already be concentrating on working on how to best to adapt to any changes, meet new challenges and develop new opportunities.

I would imagine that most on here were like myself 66 and not seriously affected but I guess I can only speak for myself.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
I wouldn't judge a person based on his/her opinion on whether or not we stayed in the EU.

You had somebody on the thread saying that such and such was great news for Brexiteers and nonsense like that as if there are different consequences based on how you voted in the referendum.

I can't say I voted myself and I can't say that my life has been seriously affected, I imagine that those more seriously affected would probably already be concentrating on working on how to best to adapt to any changes, meet new challenges and develop new opportunities.

I would imagine that most on here were like myself 66 and not seriously affected but I guess I can only speak for myself.
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Think the point is, Brexiteers have had fuck all to celebrate in terms of the so called Brexit bonus, with a real downturn as a consequence of leaving. This is a straw for a drowning man.
 
Wizaard said:
Think the point is, Brexiteers have had fuck all to celebrate in terms of the so called Brexit bonus, with a real downturn as a consequence of leaving. This is a straw for a drowning man.
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Nothing is making me change my previous post (see above) as I have not been seriously affected by Brexit.

I am not interested in stories of empty shelves or of a world leading vaccination programme.

I know one businessman who has done particularly well since Brexit, it's just a coincidence but he convinces himself it's because of Brexit because he voted for us to leave the EU.

This is all moving away from the point I was actually making in my first post Wiz, all I was trying to say is that things don't affect people differently based on how they voted in the EU referendum, a very obvious statement I know but some seem to struggle with it.
 
Newholland said:
Interesting... could you explain further please?
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At the very least, those who voted to leave the EU have a more insular mindset. I make no comment here as to the subjective benefit of that condition. Conversely, Remainers would be considered to be more open to and accepting of external influences. One mindset appears to be more openly accepting of outside influence and the other side appears to be more suspicious of external factors. One suggests a need for greater security within the known and trusted cultural mindset, one suggests a willingness to explore the benefits of wider cultural influences.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
At the very least, those who voted to leave the EU have a more insular mindset. I make no comment here as to the subjective benefit of that condition. Conversely, Remainers would be considered to be more open to and accepting of external influences. One mindset appears to be more openly accepting of outside influence and the other side appears to be more suspicious of external factors. One suggests a need for greater security within the known and trusted cultural mindset, one suggests a willingness to explore the benefits of wider cultural influences.
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It’s not worth explaining. You’re just a tree hugging lefty.
The suede head brigade won’t understand 😔
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
I wouldn't judge a person based on his/her opinion on whether or not we stayed in the EU.

You had somebody on the thread saying that such and such was great news for Brexiteers and nonsense like that as if there are different consequences based on how you voted in the referendum.

I can't say I voted myself and I can't say that my life has been seriously affected, I imagine that those more seriously affected would probably already be concentrating on working on how to best to adapt to any changes, meet new challenges and develop new opportunities.

I would imagine that most on here were like myself 66 and not seriously affected but I guess I can only speak for myself.
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I wouldn't seriously base a proper discussion of the wider implications of a person's Brexit vote on things posted on this board. I do believe that there are wider cultural, sociological and political feelings informing that vote than would be apparent from the knockabout stuff we read here. I can't believe that it simply boiled down to owners of SMEs being frustrated with the paperwork. In reality the vote swayed around a fulcrum of insularity and openness. These emotions were the real informers of the Brexit vote and they tell us a lot about significant touch points across a range of political concepts: security versus liberty, democracy versus autocracy, openness versus insularity, conservation versus exploration.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I wouldn't seriously base a proper discussion of the wider implications of a person's Brexit vote on things posted on this board. I do believe that there are wider cultural, sociological and political feelings informing that vote than would be apparent from the knockabout stuff we read here. I can't believe that it simply boiled down to owners of SMEs being frustrated with the paperwork. In reality the vote swayed around a fulcrum of insularity and openness. These emotions were the real informers of the Brexit vote and they tell us a lot about significant touch points across a range of political concepts: security versus liberty, democracy versus autocracy, openness versus insularity, conservation versus exploration.
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You are clearly contradicting yourself there 66.

You open with telling us about not basing a proper discussion on things posted on this board and then go on to make what I'm sure you consider to be serious points.

I have no problem with your contradiction but I am not going to spend my time on here complaining about the result of a democratic referendum that I didn't vote in and have no problem with the result of.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
At the very least, those who voted to leave the EU have a more insular mindset. I make no comment here as to the subjective benefit of that condition. Conversely, Remainers would be considered to be more open to and accepting of external influences. One mindset appears to be more openly accepting of outside influence and the other side appears to be more suspicious of external factors. One suggests a need for greater security within the known and trusted cultural mindset, one suggests a willingness to explore the benefits of wider cultural influences.
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Thanks for your considered reply above and post 57.
Whilst there is considerable evidence to support the “insular v openness” position , I think the polar opposite also exists, to a lesser extent, which inevitably adds to the complexity.
To explain, many remain voters have said to me they feared stepping outside the 40 year security blanket of EU membership... to them it simply wasn’t worth the risk... for myself and other leave voters...membership was stifling opportunity in a ever decreasing world.
I would have happily remained if I felt the EU was open to massive reform... for me it had grown beyond its original “trade” objective and is becoming a dinosaur in a progressive world.
 
Newholland said:
Thanks for your considered reply above and post 57.
Whilst there is considerable evidence to support the “insular v openness” position , I think the polar opposite also exists, to a lesser extent, which inevitably adds to the complexity.
To explain, many remain voters have said to me they feared stepping outside the 40 year security blanket of EU membership... to them it simply wasn’t worth the risk... for myself and other leave voters...membership was stifling opportunity in a ever decreasing world.
I would have happily remained if I felt the EU was open to massive reform... for me it had grown beyond its original “trade” objective and is becoming a dinosaur in a progressive world.
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Partly agree, (fear of stepping outside the 49 year security blanket). However, a dinosaur in a progressive world? It makes me wonder what you base your concept of progressiveness on. There is much evidence to show that, since the financial crash the world has been going through a sustained period of insular nationalism.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Partly agree, (fear of stepping outside the 49 year security blanket). However, a dinosaur in a progressive world? It makes me wonder what you base your concept of progressiveness on. There is much evidence to show that, since the financial crash the world has been going through a sustained period of insular nationalism.
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That’s a fair point re progressive world, although I do feel things are improving, my main buyer has found enough benefits from leaving the EU to counter some of the difficulties ( bizarrely even with EU countries) . It’s worth noting they were very strong for remaining but took the attitude on 23/6/16 that they would make the best of ( what they considered) was a bad job.
I’ve got to say, I’m encouraged by Sir Kier and his comments on this subject.... also I’m keep a close eye on his position re the current industrial unrest.... a workers revolution might not be in their political interests.
.
 
Newholland said:
That’s a fair point re progressive world, although I do feel things are improving, my main buyer has found enough benefits from leaving the EU to counter some of the difficulties ( bizarrely even with EU countries) . It’s worth noting they were very strong for remaining but took the attitude on 23/6/16 that they would make the best of ( what they considered) was a bad job.
I’ve got to say, I’m encouraged by Sir Kier and his comments on this subject.... also I’m keep a close eye on his position re the current industrial unrest.... a workers revolution might not be in their political interests.
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Nobody wants a workers revolution. What is needed is for the Government to stop playing political games and negotiate with these people.
 
Agree with your point about the government, can’t help but feel they are deliberately orchestrating trouble... they have history!
Listening to Mick Lynch on Today program... can’t help but feel he was peddling the Socialist Worker angle... support the strikes... bring down the Tories... not helpful either.
We are all going to have to take a big hit... the problem is getting the top 1% to take a hit too... a change in government will help to achieve that but it must be done with minimum damage to us all.
 
Basically, those banging on about £600,000 in Qatari bribes are ignoring the literally billions taken from the tax payers by cronies of this Government to make a point about corruption.

You couldn't make it up.
 
A few hundred thousand for 4 or so MEPs. Michel Mone ripped off minimum £29 million as a Tory Peer using the so called " fast lane " during Covid created by the Tory gov, when suspending normal or basic controls during covid, hence Matt Hancock's pub landlord mate getting his share too. Other UK established companies denied access. Seems she or associates just bought random gowns from China to sell on to us, mostly found to be useless. So govt pursuing a case against her re that apart from criminal investigation.
 
Newholland said:
That’s a fair point re progressive world, although I do feel things are improving, my main buyer has found enough benefits from leaving the EU to counter some of the difficulties ( bizarrely even with EU countries) . It’s worth noting they were very strong for remaining but took the attitude on 23/6/16 that they would make the best of ( what they considered) was a bad job.
I’ve got to say, I’m encouraged by Sir Kier and his comments on this subject.... also I’m keep a close eye on his position re the current industrial unrest.... a workers revolution might not be in their political interests.
.
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My friend in London.is having huge difficulty exporting to the EU because of all the ridiculous paperwork and increased costs , so former EU customers not wanting to deal with UK companies. She will eventually close her business. SMEs all over the UK have this problem. Quite ridiculous in the modern world..Not much publicised though for obvious readons
 
Always tangerine said:
A few hundred thousand for 4 or so MEPs. Michel Mone ripped off minimum £29 million as a Tory Peer using the so called " fast lane " during Covid created by the Tory gov, when suspending normal or basic controls during covid, hence Matt Hancock's pub landlord mate getting his share too. Other UK established companies denied access. Seems she or associates just bought random gowns from China to sell on to us, mostly found to be useless. So govt pursuing a case against her re that apart from criminal investigation.
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Put her house up for sale at £20 million, £10 million for the yacht and gone off to Honduras, which coincidentally, doesn't have an extradition treaty with us.

Makes what's happening in Europe small beer really, especially as Mone took our money.
 
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