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Critch to Sheff Utd?

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
Absolutely no doubt about what you say.

Also absolutely no doubt that how he is remunerated at another club would be a huge factor in any consideration as seaside suggests.
Not as big a factor as S1 (or you perhaps) seem to think. Critch is an intelligent guy and as I’ve said, he’ll be well mentored.

He’s 43 and so has a good 20-25 year career in football management ahead of him. The decisions he makes will inevitably shape his career and his overall earning potential over what is a long time. We’re not talking about a short playing career or grabbing that last pay day.

So for me and for a thinking man like Critch (advised by someone who has built a careeer on longevity at each of his clubs) will not jump at a Smash and Grab type offer unless he thinks the Club and set up is right.

Those types of decisions consistently end promising managerial careers in their tracks. It’s too early for Critch in his development right now as he needs to gain that confidence in his own ability, develop a proper track record, without that instant pressure that one of those types of clubs might bring.

As I’ve said, he very much has time on his side and all this nonsense about securing his family and the like is just that… He’ll be doing well at Blackpool with the prospect of more if we progress and with time and limited pressure to learn his craft and set up his career properly… He will know and he will also be advised that he can turn offers down, in the safe knowledge that the right offer will come along at a time when he is ready to make the next step….

Most of the top managers have formed their career from solid foundations and not making them silly career ruining ‘banana skin’ moves….

Steady progress in the right direction is the answer and that means the Club (not the financial package) has to be the key driver in his decision making.
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
I fully expect a "Critch to............" thread almost every time a manager is potted elsewhere, and to a degree I quite like it. It shows how fortunate we are to have a reportedly sought after manager.

There are a lot of good posts in this thread (Loyalty v Contract/Cash v bigger club etc), but I think that besides the ongoing building for the future project, a major factor keeping Critch here could be the more realistic expectation from the fans. He simply wouldn't have the time nor patience of the club and its fans elsewhere, especially a club who has just sacked a manager when they're within 2 wins of the play-offs.

Dave

I agree with most of what you say and certainly good to see your manager being linked elsewhere.

I don't want to go overboard with the money angle but while you talk about the whole project thing at BFC and there is no doubt that will have a value to a manager, any contract offer - not talking about Sheff Utd but could be them - from another team also has a value to a manager.

Lets take Critch, BFC and Sheff Utd out of this, one unsuccessful season at a club could be worth more than five successful seasons at another one.

While it's not all about money, I'd imagine many on here that preach about loyalty would be happy to change jobs for an extra £50 a week nevermind maybe a five times bigger salary.
 

Lytham_fy8

Well-known member
Look, he's clearly fully invested in this club and the project he's been given, he's just signed a four year contract, has full control over all the footballing side, has a swanky new training ground that he'll have lots of input on it's way, he's got probably the most supportive owner in the league and without doubt the best fans in the league who worship him. Dem's facs innit.

On a more subjective note, he doesn't strike me as someone who's going to go chasing money.

He's going nowhere.

Also, he'd have to tell Crazy Uncle Richard and no one would look forward to that...
 
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Dave62

Well-known member
Dave

I agree with most of what you say and certainly good to see your manager being linked elsewhere.

I don't want to go overboard with the money angle but while you talk about the whole project thing at BFC and there is no doubt that will have a value to a manager, any contract offer - not talking about Sheff Utd but could be them - from another team also has a value to a manager.

Lets take Critch, BFC and Sheff Utd out of this, one unsuccessful season at a club could be worth more than five successful seasons at another one.

While it's not all about money, I'd imagine many on here that preach about loyalty would be happy to change jobs for an extra £50 a week nevermind maybe a five times bigger salary.
That's reasonable enough S2020, but the "one unsuccessful season at a club could be worth more than five at another" made me think of Ian Holloway at Leicester. That failure at Leicester almost wrecked his career iirc. None of us have any idea what may or may not be going through the minds of NC & SS, let's just hope he stays for as long as possible.👍
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
Not as big a factor as S1 (or you perhaps) seem to think. Critch is an intelligent guy and as I’ve said, he’ll be well mentored.

He’s 43 and so has a good 20-25 year career in football management ahead of him. The decisions he makes will inevitably shape his career and his overall earning potential over what is a long time. We’re not talking about a short playing career or grabbing that last pay day.

So for me and for a thinking man like Critch (advised by someone who has built a careeer on longevity at each of his clubs) will not jump at a Smash and Grab type offer unless he thinks the Club and set up is right.

Those types of decisions consistently end promising managerial careers in their tracks. It’s too early for Critch in his development right now as he needs to gain that confidence in his own ability, develop a proper track record, without that instant pressure that one of those types of clubs might bring.

As I’ve said, he very much has time on his side and all this nonsense about securing his family and the like is just that… He’ll be doing well at Blackpool with the prospect of more if we progress and with time and limited pressure to learn his craft and set up his career properly… He will know and he will also be advised that he can turn offers down, in the safe knowledge that the right offer will come along at a time when he is ready to make the next step….

Most of the top managers have formed their career from solid foundations and not making them silly career ruining ‘banana skin’ moves….

Steady progress in the right direction is the answer and that means the Club (not the financial package) has to be the key driver in his decision making.

x3

You summed it up well in your opening line.

I think you don't consider the value of any contract offer to be as big a factor as I would, no problemmo, there is no right or wrong answer.

I am talking generally here and not specifically about Critch, BFC and Sheff U and I wouldn't know how much weighting Critch would put on the financial side of things - his personal finances - when considering offers from anybody.
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
That's reasonable enough S2020, but the "one unsuccessful season at a club could be worth more than five at another" made me think of Ian Holloway at Leicester. That failure at Leicester almost wrecked his career iirc. None of us have any idea what may or may not be going through the minds of NC & SS, let's just hope he stays for as long as possible.👍

62

Fair enough but it's still all about the money.

If a manager knocks back an offer from another club, I'd imagine they've got a far better chance of getting him to change his mind by increasing his remuneration by a further 25% than by promising to issue free season tickets to the local unemployed, etc, etc.

I hear all you say 62 and you make fair points, maybe I'm overdoing the money side and apologies for chunnering on.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
x3

You summed it up well in your opening line.

I think you don't consider the value of any contract offer to be as big a factor as I would, no problemmo, there is no right or wrong answer.

I am talking generally here and not specifically about Critch, BFC and Sheff U and I wouldn't know how much weighting Critch would put on the financial side of things - his personal finances - when considering offers from anybody.
I think 'generally' I might agree with you. The 'norm' is almost certainly to jump at the first big offer that comes along - It's the unintelligent option though and It's the option which ruins a lot of very promising young managerial careers. So yep, I accept that is the norm and I also accept that it is perfectly possible that Critch might also make that mistake.

That said, I don't think he will, for all the reasons mentioned... There's obviously a small amount of wishful thinking involved from my perspective, but by and large I think the logic there is sound.... Klopp spent a very solid 7 years at Mainz and I suspect he is very much the man who Critch aspires to and rightly so IMHO, because Klopp is a class act.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
I was just suggesting that we also don't get to hear of cases when basket case clubs make offers to managers that are are too good to refuse and with that in mind, how do you know that Sheffield United won't make such an offer ?
Ah OK...

I wasn't so much suggesting that they wouldn't make such an offer, I just that there are a whole series of reasons why I can't see it happening, because I don't think that he would be a good fit for them and vice versa.
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
I think 'generally' I might agree with you. The 'norm' is almost certainly to jump at the first big offer that comes along - It's the unintelligent option though and It's the option which ruins a lot of very promising young managerial careers. So yep, I accept that is the norm and I also accept that it is perfectly possible that Critch might also make that mistake.

That said, I don't think he will, for all the reasons mentioned... There's obviously a small amount of wishful thinking involved from my perspective, but by and large I think the logic there is sound.... Klopp spent a very solid 7 years at Mainz and I suspect he is very much the man who Critch aspires to and rightly so IMHO, because Klopp is a class act.

I agree with a lot of what you say and I think we'll always differ on the weight of money.

Not important but I'm not sure that all great managers are successful as a result of great career decisions.

Klopp might be a good romantic example but I'd imagine he was at Mainz for as long as he was because he was unable to convince bigger clubs until then.

Many great managers have had rocky career paths but got to the top but probably inspite of and not because - although some might say they gained good experience battling against poor career decisions.

One other thing I might disagree on is the length of managerial careers, you suggest Critch might have another 20-25 years in the game but it's a precarious game and you can soon go from being the in thing to the old thing, not saying Critch won't have a long - and successful - coaching career but there is always some level of uncertainty in football, that's probably another factor that would make accepting big offers more attractive ?
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
One other thing I might disagree on is the length of managerial careers, you suggest Critch might have another 20-25 years in the game but it's a precarious game and you can soon go from being the in thing to the old thing.
Well you certainly can if you make unintelligent career decisions by placing too much weight on money....😉

I wonder if Heckingbottom has been offered a 'Life Changing' package by Sheffield United
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
Well you certainly can if you make unintelligent career decisions by placing too much weight on money....😉

I wonder if Heckingbottom has been offered a 'Life Changing' package by Sheffield United

You certainly can x3.

There are plenty examples of people accepting "the money" and regretting it.

There are also plenty examples of rejecting the money and playing it safe and rejecting it.

I don't think I suggested that Sheff U were going to be making Critch a life changing offer ?

I think it's possible that Critch could receive a life changing offer and that such an offer could come from a basket case club.

I'm giving up with my caveats, I think we probably agree on everything apart from the value of money - that's strange really, especially when we consider that I don't have a pot to p1ss in and that you are absolutely caked !!!!!!!!!!!
 

Wizaard

Well-known member
On top of B side’s and BFC x 3 comments above, there are a few big picture points to consider on this club.

Alan Biggs, the long standing Sheffield sports journalist, is saying that the core of the team which got them promoted is getting old and replacements won’t come cheap. Jokanovic stated he wanted three players next January and the boards reaction was to sack him. So the new manager won’t have much to spend.

Biggs is touting either Paul Heckingbottom or would you believe it Neil Warnock. That tells you the short term thinking involved here.

And finally, the Athletic had an article in the last few days about the financial state of clubs in the Championship. They pointed out that Sheffield Utd are owned by a Saudi. And seemed to suggest that, per their regime there’s only room now for one Saudi owned club to be successful. Of course I have no way of knowing whether that’s true and wouldn’t suggest such a thing,
In all seriousness, Steve Bruce would be a good fit for what they need.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
I'm giving up with my caveats, I think we probably agree on everything apart from the value of money - that's strange really, especially when we consider that I don't have a pot to p1ss in and that you are absolutely caked !!!!!!!!!!!
Money has never been a primary motivating factor in any decision I've ever made in my life... So maybe that plays a big part in the reason I think the way I do....👍
 

Goforgoal

Well-known member
Unfortunately DP that means nothing today in Football 👎
You are correct contracts in football mean nothing, however Critchley has more than enough oil in his can to differentiate between a long term project and short term financial gain. He knows if we keep performing his stock will continue on an upward trajectory and he will be approached by much bigger clubs than any being mentioned at the moment.
 

Wizaard

Well-known member
Look, he's clearly fully invested in this club and the project he's been given, he's just signed a four year contract, has full control over all the footballing side, has a swanky new training ground that he'll have lots of input on it's way, he's got probably the most supportive owner in the league and without doubt the best fans in the league who worship him. Dem's facs innit.

On a more subjective note, he doesn't strike me as someone who's going to go chasing money.

He's going nowhere.

Also, he'd have to tell Crazy Uncle Richard and no one would look forward to that...
And he's also said that the fan worship is reciprocated. These things matter.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
He was already under contract there with the youth.
Ah OK... I must admit I haven't really followed his career with a great deal of interest🤣, despite him supposedly being in the frame for the job at Blackpool before Critch arrived.

So it probably is a case of offloading some of the big earners and rebuilding .... They've probably decided this season is done with, so they might as well start now for next season.
 

Jaffa_The_Hut

Well-known member
Just been reading some of the comments on the Sheff Utd board.

To say it’s in meltdown right now is an understatement.

Seems like the McCall appointment is the only positive bit of news their fans are in agreement with. 😮
 

seasideone

Well-known member
You are correct contracts in football mean nothing, however Critchley has more than enough oil in his can to differentiate between a long term project and short term financial gain. He knows if we keep performing his stock will continue on an upward trajectory and he will be approached by much bigger clubs than any being mentioned at the moment.
If he gets a 3 year contract at a bigger club worth a few million (that might not be the right amount BUT there will be an amount!), he will be off and rightly so. If he gets sacked they usually have to pay him up in full if they do not have a sacking clause.

That is life changing for his family, fans chanting his name is not going to stop that.

It's just like the vast majority of the population....your companies competitor comes in and offers to triple your wages - most people would not be seen for dust!!!
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
If he gets a 3 year contract at a bigger club worth a few million (that might not be the right amount BUT there will be an amount!), he will be off and rightly so. If he gets sacked they usually have to pay him up in full if they do not have a sacking clause.

That is life changing for his family, fans chanting his name is not going to stop that.

It's just like the vast majority of the population....your companies competitor comes in and offers to triple your wages - most people would not be seen for dust!!!
That depends....

If competitor is a business that is on a downward spiral and the last three people (who you know to be capable) who have taken up the position you have been offered have been potted without proper chance to do a job, then you might not be so keen. If you also have a clear career strategy in your mind and feel you are progressing solidly towards your personal goals and milestones where you are then you would also think differently..

Of course, in the real world, individuals are increasingly badly advised, whether that be Agents in the football world or recruitment consultants in the business world.... Commissions and instant revenue driving bad advice and bad career choices (especially for those who are starting out)...

A basket case like Sheffield United (or for that matter any other club right at this moment) isn't going to be offering NC 'Life-Changing' money, because right now he hasn't done 'enough' for anyone to push the financial boat out. So to that extent Blackpool could compete financially...

Like I said on another thread... It's not about silly concepts like "life changing for his family"... That will come in time regardless and you don't put the next 20 years at stake for a smash and grab. Right Club, Right Time, Right Money (In that order)
 

seasideone

Well-known member
That depends....

If competitor is a business that is on a downward spiral and the last three people (who you know to be capable) who have taken up the position you have been offered have been potted without proper chance to do a job, then you might not be so keen. If you also have a clear career strategy in your mind and feel you are progressing solidly towards your personal goals and milestones where you are then you would also think differently..

Of course, in the real world, individuals are increasingly badly advised, whether that be Agents in the football world or recruitment consultants in the business world.... Commissions and instant revenue driving bad advice and bad career choices (especially for those who are starting out)...

A basket case like Sheffield United (or for that matter any other club right at this moment) isn't going to be offering NC 'Life-Changing' money, because right now he hasn't done 'enough' for anyone to push the financial boat out. So to that extent Blackpool could compete financially...

Like I said on another thread... It's not about silly concepts like "life changing for his family"... That will come in time regardless and you don't put the next 20 years at stake for a smash and grab. Right Club, Right Time, Right Money (In that order)
I am not on about Sheffield United - when he gets offered life changing money he will be gone!

...and rightly so.

old news, but Paul Heckingbottom has the job with Stuart Mccall as his assistant.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
I am not on about Sheffield United - when he gets offered life changing money he will be gone!

...and rightly so.

old news, but Paul Heckingbottom has the job with Stuart Mccall as his assistant.
Yes... I linked that above👍 and of course, Heckingbottom won't have been offered 'life changing money' either ... whatever that is🙄

Of course, we'll never know what offers Critch turns down, only the one he eventually takes, which I expect will be to the right club at the right time and I'm not convinced that money will be the driving factor 'life changing' or otherwise.
 

seasideone

Well-known member
Yes... I linked that above👍 and of course, Heckingbottom won't have been offered 'life changing money' either ... whatever that is🙄

Of course, we'll never know what offers Critch turns down, only the one he eventually takes, which I expect will be to the right club at the right time and I'm not convinced that money will be the driving factor 'life changing' or otherwise.
Reality is what happens to Critch in the future is just speculation, just as you have no idea what the new manager at Sheffield United has been offered on his 5 year contract, or what other managers have turned down in private as you mentioned before.

I think as soon as he is offered life changing money he is gone, you think it is a lot more than that - let's just agree to disagree as we are going round in circles.

We will see... I for one hope he is here for many years to come.
 

Goforgoal

Well-known member
If he gets a 3 year contract at a bigger club worth a few million (that might not be the right amount BUT there will be an amount!), he will be off and rightly so. If he gets sacked they usually have to pay him up in full if they do not have a sacking clause.

That is life changing for his family, fans chanting his name is not going to stop that.

It's just like the vast majority of the population....your companies competitor comes in and offers to triple your wages - most people would not be seen for dust!!!
I don’t think facetious comments like ‘fans chanting his name’ add anything to the discussion. As you are well aware that wasn’t my point. BFCx3 put the argument more succinctly than I ever could.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
Reality is what happens to Critch in the future is just speculation, just as you have no idea what the new manager at Sheffield United has been offered on his 5 year contract, or what other managers have turned down in private as you mentioned before.

I think as soon as he is offered life changing money he is gone, you think it is a lot more than that - let's just agree to disagree as we are going round in circles.

We will see... I for one hope he is here for many years to come.

Well we won't actually see and that's my point really.... Like with every other Manager or Player, we will really only see what he does take rather than what he doesn't....

What I will say, is that Critch won't go for a perceived poison chalice type job...... I think he's too cute for that......... And I'm prepared to hang my hat on that statement.👍
 

seasideone

Well-known member
Well we won't actually see and that's my point really.... Like with every other Manager or Player, we will really only see what he does take rather than what he doesn't....

What I will say, is that Critch won't go for a perceived poison chalice type job...... I think he's too cute for that......... And I'm prepared to hang my hat on that statement.👍
Bookmarked for the future 👍

Hope it's a long time before it comes back out again!
 

gjr69

Well-known member
Alex Ferguson did 4 years at St Mirren and then 8 years at Aberdeen before going to United.
I'm pretty sure there would have been bigger clubs sniffing around earlier in his Aberdeen career but he stayed with them until he reached what was in all probability their maximum potential.
If Neil Critchley does that with us we would wish him well and his career arc and therefore earnings would be heading the right way.
Some posters think that all people will jump at the first offer of bigger money, not everybody is made that way and in some respects it would indicate a lack of faith in your own ability.
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
Alex Ferguson did 4 years at St Mirren and then 8 years at Aberdeen before going to United.
I'm pretty sure there would have been bigger clubs sniffing around earlier in his Aberdeen career but he stayed with them until he reached what was in all probability their maximum potential.
If Neil Critchley does that with us we would wish him well and his career arc and therefore earnings would be heading the right way.
Some posters think that all people will jump at the first offer of bigger money, not everybody is made that way and in some respects it would indicate a lack of faith in your own ability.


Alex Ferguson wanted to stay at East Stirling when he was offered the St Mirren job but Jock Stein told him to take the job as East Stirling could never be St Mirren.

He was then actually sacked at St Mirren - not for on the field performance, for bullying his secretary disguised as fiddling his ex's and he lost when he took it to a tribunal - but was lucky enough to get the Aberdeen job because the Celtic job came up for Billy McNeill.

As you suggest he was offered the Rangers job while at Aberdeen (1983) but turned it down before moving to Man Utd in 1986 - when he went to Man Utd he effectively took a pay cut as when bonuses were considered he was on more at Aberdeen.

I think it's fair to say that he could have easily been tick tacked before he became successful at Man Utd.

I know you didn't ask for Ferguson's career history gj but I was just trying to explain that most of the time it's not as easy as staying at one club for x years before moving on to another club for x years and getting to the very top after y years.

No doubt Critchley will have decisions to make at various stages of his career and he probably won't know whether he's made the right decisions or not until long after he's made them.
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
I'll caveat that by saying I mean 4 + years from the day he started working for us... Personally I think that's a solid term for a first job...

If it only it was that easy, he could get an offer or offers after being with us for 2 years and there is no guarantee that such offers will be there in the future.

It's not an exact science.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
If it only it was that easy, he could get an offer or offers after being with us for 2 years and there is no guarantee that such offers will be there in the future.

It's not an exact science.

It's not an exact science, no... But you can, nonetheless, make a judgement and form an opinion. First and foremost you have to ask yourself what circumstances might prompt this so called 'life changing offer' in the next 12-18 months. Do you think it's possible we might be getting slightly ahead of ourselves?
 
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