Energy prices...

It might have been an idea to buy gas when it was cheap. But even so, that would have amounted to only days or a few weeks supply. This government has significantly downgraded investment in our gas storage capacity over the last 10 years. What storage we have is mainly in the large national pipelines and in LPG tankers on the high seas making their way to South Wales. While the Norwegians leave theirs under the North Sea and the Dutch reinject into exhausted gas wells off their coast for storage.
 
td53, I've taken this from Shell's website. It helps to understand the situation, if not fully cover the causes of gas price increases. I suspect future speculation on the markets is also a cause:

  • British and European gas storage levels are at a record low level due to higher usage in the first half of the year. Gas storage levels approaching winter are an important indicator of the expected delivery price for gas at times when daily production is not enough to meet demand during the coldest months. The UK also sometimes receives deliveries of LNG (liquefied natural gas) tankers from places like Asia and the US, but gas prices in Asia are also high so much of the supply is being used there.
  • We’ve experienced unseasonably cold temperatures in the UK this year so gas usage was higher than usual. Generally the gas storage replenishment season starts in April, but a cold April and May this year depleted European gas reserves more than usual. With only the rest of September as the traditional gas replenishment season left, EU storage sites are around 20% lower than would normally be seen for this time of year.
  • European pipeline deliveries have reduced year on year, which has caused prices to rise. A large proportion of the gas is delivered through pipelines that come through Europe and there is high demand for gas across the continent.
  • Low wind generation across Europe in 2021 has driven demand from gas-burning electricity-generating power stations. With the price of CO2 emissions doubling since last year, this has also had a knock on effect of making gas burning rather than coal burning more appealing for power generation. Using gas reserves to generate power has exacerbated the demand for gas.
 
Starmer gave a floundering response to what Labour policy is on energy prices on BBC News this morning. He seemed to have a memory loss as to what it was, before, after an uncomfortable delay,said what it was which led to the interviewer being confused by the answer.😂
 
glasshalffull said:
Looks like Insulate Britain were onto something after all. That could be one way to permanently reduce our energy requirements.
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The fact that their tactics were counter productive shouldn't get past the message that is correct.

A big proper funded programme to insulate Britain's old housing stock could make an enormous difference. Modern construction houses can be built needing NO additional heat. There are loads of things that can be done, from loft, in wall insulation, under floor, to insulated wallpaper. Green Deal was a right dogs breakfast, but an effective campaign, properly backed for those on low incomes, would cut consumption rapidly. The need to get round the rental / landlord roadblock is vital.
 
If everyone had the balls to cancel their direct debit for three months would the energy companies cut everyone off?
 
Tangerinemoss said:
The fact that their tactics were counter productive shouldn't get past the message that is correct.

A big proper funded programme to insulate Britain's old housing stock could make an enormous difference. Modern construction houses can be built needing NO additional heat. There are loads of things that can be done, from loft, in wall insulation, under floor, to insulated wallpaper. Green Deal was a right dogs breakfast, but an effective campaign, properly backed for those on low incomes, would cut consumption rapidly. The need to get round the rental / landlord roadblock is vital.
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I was reading something recently about Holland (I think). If you get your house done you get a loan to cover the cost, and basically use money that would have been going to the electricity company to repay it.
 
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glasshalffull said:
I was reading something recently about Holland (I think). If you get your house done you get a loan to cover the cost, and basically use money that would have been going to the electricity company to repay it.
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👍 That was what Green Start was supposed to be, but the figures and loans never added up and many people who participated say it cost them far more than they saved. That is what you get for letting private companies run it for profit rather than the Government for National Strategy
 
Tangerinemoss said:
👍 That was what Green Start was supposed to be, but the figures and loans never added up and many people who participated say it cost them far more than they saved. That is what you get for letting private companies run it for profit rather than the Government for National Strategy
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Agreed, plus too many politicians in key strategic positions who like to wear their anti green agendas as a badge of honour.
Even if they cannot accept climate change, you would think they might see the need to promote energy security in this way, or the benefits of preserving scarce resources for future generations?
 
glasshalffull said:
Agreed, plus too many politicians in key strategic positions who like to wear their anti green agendas as a badge of honour.
Even if they cannot accept climate change, you would think they might see the need to promote energy security in this way, or the benefits of preserving scarce resources for future generations?
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Any politician not accepting climate change shouldn't be anywhere near politics as they obviously live in a make believe fairyland.
 
Renewables have to be paid for, but the cost of domestic renewable production is in manufacturing and maintenance. They are vastly more expensive per unit generated over the course of their lifetimes than non renewable sources.

The other main way that renewable energy targets are met is by buying energy from Norway, where they have a huge system of geothermal generation. That cost is open to market fluctuations.

The reality is that we have sabotaged our own energy security for the last 3 decades chasing the nonsense of renewable energy. We are now in a position where our domestic production is expensive and unreliable and we have to purchase energy on the open market, often from countries that we have pursued hostile geo-political strategies against.

The only viable answer to our energy needs is nuclear power.
 
GeminiPool said:
The other main way that renewable energy targets are met is by buying energy from Norway, where they have a huge system of geothermal generation. That cost is open to market fluctuations.
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I'm not sure that Norway has much if any geothermal, they've lots of hydro but you need lots of mountains to do that.
 
I get supply and demand; I don't like the fact that subsidiaries of companies producing the energy, then sell it on to us and whatever price their producing arm dictates.

I also wonder just what the point of all the energy saving devices we've industry in over the years was? I guess my energy usage is as low as it's ever been with LED bulbs, hyper efficient white goods etc; but we are still getting hammered.

It was inevitable that the moment we used less energy, they would hike the prices to maintain their profits.
 
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'Can we charge what we like?'

'Of course we can!'

'But how do we wing it?'

'We don't, all these fuckers need it so we'll make some bollocks up that no one really understands'

'Ah, that's why we pay you the big bucks...'
 
TSSeasider said:
It was inevitable that the moment we used less energy, they would hike the prices to maintain their profits.
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This

As we use heating Control energy up here in the Highlands (no mains gas) there is only one supplier for our 2 sets of electric, on variable rates. We have always been frugal with our electricity usage, but as we reduce our watts, they increase our price to ensure we pay the Price cap. I have tried explaining this to the energy regulator, but they cannot grasp the concept, advising us to change our supplier when no one else does it isn't helpful.
 
Just spoken to British Gas and agreed to sign up for a fixed tariff until October ‘23 … my new monthly payment for a four bed semi is… £700!!!
Feel slightly sick 🙀
 
45% of the UK's coal consumption is imported. But then, Thatcher Major and other Tories killed the UK coal industry because the citizens who's livelihoods depended on digging it out were "the enemy within." Of course, they weren't an enemy in wartime only when it was pitifully convenient for the Tories.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
45% of the UK's coal consumption is imported. But then, Thatcher Major and other Tories killed the UK coal industry because the citizens who's livelihoods depended on digging it out were "the enemy within." Of course, they weren't an enemy in wartime only when it was pitifully convenient for the Tories.
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As they say, it takes two to tango, and Scargill was just as bad as the aforementioned, but he got away and still gets away with his part in the debacle. He seems to have come out of it well with plenty of money. Also, don't forget that the Labour Government of Wilson closed more mines than Thatcher and co. It all adds up.
 
Curryman said:
As they say, it takes two to tango, and Scargill was just as bad as the aforementioned, but he got away and still gets away with his part in the debacle. He seems to have come out of it well with plenty of money. Also, don't forget that the Labour Government of Wilson closed more mines than Thatcher and co. It all adds up.
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More mines closed during the time of the Wilson Labour Governments because they were worked out. It was the NCB that closed them. The Hestletine closures under Thatcher and Major were political.

Partly agree about Scargill. He was tactically inept and his use of flying pickets to bully workers at non-striking pits led directly to the founding of UDM. Had the NUM been better led, by a politically astute leader, the miners might have won.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
More mines closed during the time of the Wilson Labour Governments because they were worked out. It was the NCB that closed them. The Hestletine closures under Thatcher and Major were political.

Partly agree about Scargill. He was tactically inept and his use of flying pickets to bully workers at non-striking pits led directly to the founding of UDM. Had the NUM been better led, by a politically astute leader, the miners might have won.
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Agree with your last para.
 
Oil and gas are paid for in dollars. We are paying more for the same amount of fuel as a consequence of the falling £.
 
td53 said:
Here's what I don't get.

How do energy prices go up so much when we are drawing a lot of power from renewables and all tariffs, even those where you pay a premium for only renewable energy are affected.

I honestly don't understand why people aren't raging about this?

Yes, I understand gas/oil supplies are affected but wind, wave, nuclear, coal, biomass etc aren't and I don't think we need much oil in our power grid do we?

I am absolutely baffled. People explain shit about energy markets and it makes no sense to me at all.

It's like everyone has just shrugged and gone 'oh, ok, that thing has doubled in price' and the explanation is just a vague wave of the hand and someone going 'yeah, the economy and that' and we've all gone 'yeah, the economy, that'll be it'

Am I missing something?

*nb - it would be mad good, if we could not end up with a Brexit/not Brexit debate within 2 posts cos I'm genuinely confused and I'd like an explanation not just dickheads arguing through each other to make pathetic points cos they put a tick in a box 5 years ago but are acting on like they're warrior heroes from two ancient feuding tribal races when really they're just some people who have mostly the same desires and beliefs.
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The energy companies are price gouging.

The reality is though that energy prices should probably be at the level they currently are based on peak oil predictions. I've long thought there would be major energy issues, with security of supply, infrastructure failures and price hikes due to the energy companies needing to increase profit to account for the amount of debt in the industry.

The way renewables is structured is also creating issues both economic and in supply security, my expectation is that consumer energy prices will remain quite high probably for ever. Saw a notification the other day (from a wealth management fund that keeps trying to get money off me) to buy into energy funds as expectations on returns are quite high.
 
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