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Scaramanga

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Didnt all the remainers Pooh Pooh the joint armed forces claim ?
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Please explain...not about remainers - the other bit.
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One source.

www.breitbart.com

'EU Empire': Army, Centralised Brussels Powers Approved by Conference

The Conference on the Future of Europe approved the establishment of a European Union army and centralising more power in Brussels.
www.breitbart.com www.breitbart.com

www.politico.eu

Nine EU states, including UK, sign off on joint military intervention force

The plan, spearheaded by Emmanuel Macron, allows for British participation post Brexit.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
 
A simple honest reply of, yes I was wrong about the EU wanting a unified army. They do and I got it wrong would of been a fair response.
 
Scaramanga said:
A simple honest reply of, yes I was wrong about the EU wanting a unified army. They do and I got it wrong would of been a fair response.
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I think you'll find that the world of 2016 is very different today. Greater unity on defence across the European States can only be a good thing.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I think you'll find that the world of 2016 is very different today. Greater unity on defence across the European States can only be a good thing.
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Yes but the point is you were all arguing against this being the case back at the referendum stage, you were having none of it back then, all leavers were idiots that didn’t know what they were talking about. Which has now been seen to be untrue. Sometimes you just have to own it.
 
Scaramanga said:
Yes but the point is you were all arguing against this being the case back at the referendum stage, you were having none of it back then, all leavers were idiots that didn’t know what they were talking about. Which has now been seen to be untrue. Sometimes you just have to own it.
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No we weren't. It was the Brexiteers who were afraid that an integrated European armed force would further erode Britain's independence. For my part, I've long been of the view that an integrated European strategic military command and deployment would be necessary if ever the USA were to look more inward - as they were starting to under Trump.
 
Scaramanga said:
Yes but the point is you were all arguing against this being the case back at the referendum stage, you were having none of it back then, all leavers were idiots that didn’t know what they were talking about. Which has now been seen to be untrue. Sometimes you just have to own it.
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I've never heard a remainer say that. There were many a brexiteer frothing about this subject, considering we didn't even join the euro why would we join that? For what it's worth I couldn't care less, it would save a bob or two so we could prop up our crumbling infra structure or even give some mega lucrative govt contracts to mates.
 
Scaramanga said:
Yes but the point is you were all arguing against this being the case back at the referendum stage, you were having none of it back then, all leavers were idiots that didn’t know what they were talking about. Which has now been seen to be untrue. Sometimes you just have to own it.
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What ? Despite all the mounting evidence you still think Brexshit was a good idea( no question mark).
 
Scaramanga said:
A simple honest reply of, yes I was wrong about the EU wanting a unified army. They do and I got it wrong would of been a fair response.
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Wasn't bothered about it one way or the other.
I'd guess a positive would be a European army wouldn't easily be drawn into an unnecessary conflict like Blairs war in Iraq.
A negative would be difficult to make rapid decisions if needed when so many involved.
Ultimately it wasn't and isn't a thing that bothers me too much.
 
gjr69 said:
Wasn't bothered about it one way or the other.
I'd guess a positive would be a European army wouldn't easily be drawn into an unnecessary conflict like Blairs war in Iraq.
A negative would be difficult to make rapid decisions if needed when so many involved.
Ultimately it wasn't and isn't a thing that bothers me too much.
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It would be feasible to differentiate the theatres and circumstances under which a European force would engage. At present there are already a number of alliances that involve UK armed forces, not all of which are triggered whenever UK forces become involved in military operations. For example, our involvement in Afghanistan was not conducted under a NATO banner. We also share military intelligence through the 5 Eyes network, as well as through the European Common Security and Defence Policy.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
It would be feasible to differentiate the theatres and circumstances under which a European force would engage. At present there are already a number of alliances that involve UK armed forces, not all of which are triggered whenever UK forces become involved in military operations. For example, our involvement in Afghanistan was not conducted under a NATO banner. We also share military intelligence through the 5 Eyes network, as well as through the European Common Security and Defence Policy.
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So if you look behind the headline not much to be concerned about, which is what I thought at the time of the referendum.
Though many people seemed to think our armed forces were going to be disbanded and redeployed as part of a European army!
But they also believed in huge amounts of money on a weekly basis for the NHS and that tens of thousands of Turkish people were about to move here!!
It's not about people being thick, my formal education finished around age 15, it's about not allowing the usual suspects to spout rubbish which plays on people's prejudices without question.
And then not holding them to account when all the evidence points to them being self serving liars.
Not sure how best to describe committed Brexit voters like scaramanga, it's definitely more complex than just calling them thick.
 
gjr69 said:
So if you look behind the headline not much to be concerned about, which is what I thought at the time of the referendum.
Though many people seemed to think our armed forces were going to be disbanded and redeployed as part of a European army!
But they also believed in huge amounts of money on a weekly basis for the NHS and that tens of thousands of Turkish people were about to move here!!
It's not about people being thick, my formal education finished around age 15, it's about not allowing the usual suspects to spout rubbish which plays on people's prejudices without question.
And then not holding them to account when all the evidence points to them being self serving liars.
Not sure how best to describe committed Brexit voters like scaramanga, it's definitely more complex than just calling them thick.
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Your forgetting all the remain lies that where also peddled out emergency budget, every person over 1000 a year worse off whilst having to work 12 hour days, recession and half a million out of work.

It was project fear and it didn't work I'd go as far the whole remain campaign was pathetic and lazy.
 
gjr69 said:
It's not about people being thick, my formal education finished around age 15, it's about not allowing the usual suspects to spout rubbish which plays on people's prejudices without question.
And then not holding them to account when all the evidence points to them being self serving liars.
Not sure how best to describe committed Brexit voters like scaramanga, it's definitely more complex than just calling them thick.
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Absolutely agree. There are many more appropriate adjectives: insecure, introverted, suspicious, unfamiliar. Of course, those desciptors do not cover everyone who voted Brexit. Those who experienced massive bureaucrasy when dealing with the EU had an understandable wish to seek change as did those who's perceptions were of losing control or of a democratic deficit. I still believe there were a significant number who wanted to aim a blow at those in power - at the Establishment. The referendum gave people that opportunity.
 
poolseasider said:
Your forgetting all the remain lies that where also peddled out emergency budget, every person over 1000 a year worse off whilst having to work 12 hour days, recession and half a million out of work.

It was project fear and it didn't work I'd go as far the whole remain campaign was pathetic and lazy.
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It was a terrible campaign by the remain side which reinforced my view that the standard of politicians in the UK across the board is piss poor!!
Unfortunately it is now a lot harder for me to get away from them!
 
gjr69 said:
It was a terrible campaign by the remain side which reinforced my view that the standard of politicians in the UK across the board is piss poor!!
Unfortunately it is now a lot harder for me to get away from them!
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And a leader of the opposition at the time of the vote still to this day no one has a scooby which way he voted!
 
poolseasider said:
And a leader of the opposition at the time of the vote still to this day no one has a scooby which way he voted!
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My guess is he voted leave but once again he is as unrepresentative of most of us as Boris Johnson is, these are the crap choices we are given.
Self serving, over privileged egotists versus virtue signalling, wishy washy impractical types.
Needs shaking up but it won't happen, both major parties in their general ideology creep ever closer together looking for what they think is the most fertile territory for easy votes.
Ultimately the Tories look after the top couple of per cent with all the money and labour seem to want power for the sake of it!
 
poolseasider said:
Your forgetting all the remain lies that where also peddled out emergency budget, every person over 1000 a year worse off whilst having to work 12 hour days, recession and half a million out of work.

It was project fear and it didn't work I'd go as far the whole remain campaign was pathetic and lazy.
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I'm substantially more than £1,000 a year worse off than I was before Brexit taking into account the cost of living. Fact.
 
gjr69 said:
Wasn't bothered about it one way or the other.
I'd guess a positive would be a European army wouldn't easily be drawn into an unnecessary conflict like Blairs war in Iraq.
A negative would be difficult to make rapid decisions if needed when so many involved.
Ultimately it wasn't and isn't a thing that bothers me too much.
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Well the truth is we won’t know until it’s too late.
 
poolseasider said:
That's today after Covid and an ongoing war not the years after the vote.

Inflation is rife in Europe also Spain and Germany recently higher than us so fuck all to do with Brexit.
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Businesses incur increased costs to both import and export. That's a fact now we've left the single market due to additional bureaucracy, that cost is passed to the consumer.
 
EagleDay said:
Translation, " You are hoping are you not, old boy?", you posh git. 😆 I was referring to your post about an honest admittance to the pooh poohing about the EU army claim.
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The EU army claim was a Brexiteer claim. Don't try and pin that one on Remainers.

We didn't give a shit then and now it's irrelevant.

Of course, nothing is Brexit's fault, yet a war in Ukraine is ignored as being the cause of discussions around a joint response, and claimed to be being forced through secretly.
 
Wizaard said:
The EU army claim was a Brexiteer claim. Don't try and pin that one on Remainers.

We didn't give a shit then and now it's irrelevant.

Of course, nothing is Brexit's fault, yet a war in Ukraine is ignored as being the cause of discussions around a joint response, and claimed to be being forced through secretly.
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🤣
I wouldn’t want to be in the same trench as French and Italian soldiers that’s for sure not without rear body armour. 🤣
 
There‘s already a European army, it’s called Nato, to which the USA is the main contributor. What happens to Nato if this goes ahead? Does it run alongside? If so does that mean Eu countries have to fund both? Does Nato disband? Will they want America to contribute? Seems a vanity, pie in the sky project to me.
 
tommytwojags said:
What would be the point of an EU army? It would never agree on who to attack or who to defend against.
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1966_and_all_that said:
Why's that then?
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Errr because they can't agree on anything else. I see Bulgaria, Hungary, Slovakia and Italy can't even agree to boycott Russian gas

In any event, I assume Mr Macron would have to be Commander in Chief of any EU army. He'd probably use it to attack the UK
 
Lost Seasider said:
It's a step along the way to a USE, or can anybody else think of a trade association that has its own army, other than the Medallin cartel perhaps?
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Why should you care? The Brexiteers won and we have no input or influence on anything the rest of Europe does.

Just think, if we were a major player in there we could have a voice....

Still, at least our borders are impregnable and we have sovereignty...
 
tommytwojags said:
Errr because they can't agree on anything else. I see Bulgaria, Hungary, Slovakia and Italy can't even agree to boycott Russian gas

In any event, I assume Mr Macron would have to be Commander in Chief of any EU army. He'd probably use it to attack the UK
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As was said to me the other day, any evidence behind that assertion?
 
tommytwojags said:
Errr because they can't agree on anything else. I see Bulgaria, Hungary, Slovakia and Italy can't even agree to boycott Russian gas

In any event, I assume Mr Macron would have to be Commander in Chief of any EU army. He'd probably use it to attack the UK
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Your scoffing is noted.
 
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