Extend the transition period.

catinstalbans

Well-known member
The only sensible thing to do in the current circumstances is to seek an extension of the transition period with the EU.
Having purged any whiff of intelligence from his government it is clear that the current incumbents cannot deal with any aspect of running the country successfully never mind the self inflicted harm of no deal or the negligence driven catastrophe that is our handling of Covid 19.
Of course this would depend on our EU allies actually agreeing to it, which considering the hatred and vitriol with which they have been attacked by the swivel eyed loons of the right, I could well understand them wanting nothing to do with helping us out of our current predicament.
 
Having purged any whiff of intelligence from his government it is clear that the current incumbents cannot deal with any aspect of running the country successfully never mind the self inflicted harm of no deal or the negligence driven catastrophe that is our handling of Covid 19.
Agree with this bit however would say this is why it needs boxing off pronto. It's not exactly a cabinet of talented multitaskers. Get it done and then focus on finding a sociopolitical exit strategy from these ruinous on-off lockdowns.
 
Even Kier Starmer doesn't want us to extend the transition period. Should have been brought to a head ages ago, one way or the other
 
The only sensible thing to do in the current circumstances is to seek an extension of the transition period with the EU.
Having purged any whiff of intelligence from his government it is clear that the current incumbents cannot deal with any aspect of running the country successfully never mind the self inflicted harm of no deal or the negligence driven catastrophe that is our handling of Covid 19.
Of course this would depend on our EU allies actually agreeing to it, which considering the hatred and vitriol with which they have been attacked by the swivel eyed loons of the right, I could well understand them wanting nothing to do with helping us out of our current predicament.
It’s took us 4 years to get to where we are now and we’re still miles apart so it’s a massive no f*****g way from me and if it’s a no deal then so be it but FFS let’s get it done this week so we can all relax have a shitty Christmas. 🙏
 
It’s took us 4 years to get to where we are now and we’re still miles apart so it’s a massive no f*****g way from meow it’s a no deal then so be it.
When we're still in negotiations, surely it's better to sort a deal than stop to an arbitrary deadline, especially when it's been extended about 15 times anyway.
 
The only sensible thing to do in the current circumstances is to seek an extension of the transition period with the EU.
Having purged any whiff of intelligence from his government it is clear that the current incumbents cannot deal with any aspect of running the country successfully never mind the self inflicted harm of no deal or the negligence driven catastrophe that is our handling of Covid 19.
Of course this would depend on our EU allies actually agreeing to it, which considering the hatred and vitriol with which they have been attacked by the swivel eyed loons of the right, I could well understand them wanting nothing to do with helping us out of our current predicament.

The EU has been begging for an extension for long enough, they would hardly object now. But it's not likely to happen. They've had plenty of time to reach agreement. As the Finnish MEP said this week: the UK has signed trade agreements with 60 countries, what's the matter with the EU that we can't agree a deal with them?
 
When we're still in negotiations, surely it's better to sort a deal than stop to an arbitrary deadline, especially when it's been extended about 15 times anyway.
I think it’s pretty obvious the EU are not going to give us a fair deal and we shouldn’t just “cave in” to get it done.
FFS we’ve been talking for 2 years now on this issue alone and 4 years from the vote it’s just pathetic if nothing gets sorted by the end of this week fine let’s close the book and wave goodbye.
We’ve got Covid in the new year to look forward to so for Christ’s sake we don’t want Brexit hanging around as well.
 
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The EU has been begging for an extension for long enough, they would hardly object now. But it's not likely to happen. They've had plenty of time to reach agreement. As the Finnish MEP said this week: the UK has signed trade agreements with 60 countries, what's the matter with the EU that we can't agree a deal with them?
This is the far right Finnish MEP with links to a racist facebook group and that posted school children's names on twitter leading to online threats and abuse from racists. Great example to choose.
 
Sadly not the first time that some of the loops on here have quoted this rwnj.

Anyone who can’t see the difference between signing a rollover deal with a country outside the EU and signing a deal with the EU should probably stick to the football section
 
I think it’s pretty obvious the EU are not going to give us a fair deal and we shouldn’t just “cave in” to get it done.
FFS we’ve been talking for 2 years now on this issue alone and 4 years from the vote it’s just pathetic if nothing gets sorted by the end of this week fine let’s close the book and wave goodbye.
We’ve got Covid in the new year to look forward to so for Christ’s sake we don’t want Brexit hanging around as well.
It's not 'caving in', it's extending the talks. Walking away when 95% of the deal is done is the wrong thing to do to meet some deadline. Throwing away the baby with the bathwater.
 
It’s took us 4 years to get to where we are now and we’re still miles apart so it’s a massive no f*****g way from me and if it’s a no deal then so be it but FFS let’s get it done this week so we can all relax have a shitty Christmas. 🙏
Ah yes, I remember that tag-line: let's get Brexit done!" It had that, 'let's stop messing about' air about it. This was a massively successful way of differentiating Mr positivity Johnson from Mr dithering Corbyn.
Turned out well, mind.
 
Think of it as a Cup Final that's gone to pens, the game seems to going on for an age so at 15-14, you say XXXX it, let's call it a draw.
 
Ah yes, I remember that tag-line: let's get Brexit done!" It had that, 'let's stop messing about' air about it. This was a massively successful way of differentiating Mr positivity Johnson from Mr dithering Corbyn.
Turned out well, mind.

Can't please some people. Get Brexit done was the message and it will finally be done by next week, just as promised. Now you're criticising poor Mr Johnson for sticking to his word. Honestly, it's hard to know what you want.
 
....swivel eyed loons of the right....oh dear . Presume any refugees will be vetted before entry to the UK as to their political leanings in a future socialist state.
 
I think it’s pretty obvious the EU are not going to give us a fair deal and we shouldn’t just “cave in” to get it done.
FFS we’ve been talking for 2 years now on this issue alone and 4 years from the vote it’s just pathetic if nothing gets sorted by the end of this week fine let’s close the book and wave goodbye.
We’ve got Covid in the new year to look forward to so for Christ’s sake we don’t want Brexit hanging around as well.
Do you genuinely think everything is sorted on January 1st because we're no longer in the EU? It's not going away until we have deals in place with not only the EU but each and every country that we need to deal with.
 
Do you genuinely think everything is sorted on January 1st because we're no longer in the EU? It's not going away until we have deals in place with not only the EU but each and every country that we need to deal with.
But we can’t sort any deals out can we? Fishing is the main stumbling block something you said on here 2 weeks ago we had was already agreed, really? 🤐
 
But we can’t sort any deals out can we? Fishing is the main stumbling block something you said on here 2 weeks ago we had was already agreed, really? 🤐
Fishing is a tiny, tiny sector in this country. We'll be making more from computer games than fishing. Why throw away a deal for a minuscule aspect of the economy? Why not agree to revisit fishing separately and agree on the remaining 95%?
 
Fishing is a tiny, tiny sector in this country. We'll be making more from computer games than fishing. Why throw away a deal for a minuscule aspect of the economy? Why not agree to revisit fishing separately and agree on the remaining 95%?
The EU are trying to screw us on every deal why do you think it’s taken till now?
I was all for a deal trust me but you can’t keep moving the goal posts.
If it’s going to be a no deal then bring it on.
 
🙄 I say negotiation, you say trying to screw us on every deal, let’s call the whole thing off

‘Bring it on’ - are you one of those sad cnts who flick v’s at opposition supporters from 100 yards away.
 
Do you genuinely think everything is sorted on January 1st because we're no longer in the EU? It's not going away until we have deals in place with not only the EU but each and every country that we need to deal with.
It looks increasingly like the EU won't have a deal in place with us by 1 January. That means we carry on trading with them on WTO terms. They will sell goods to us with tax and duty and we will sell a lower amount to them also with tax and duty. What will change is that the UK and the EU will be more selective about what they sell and buy. If French wine is too expensive we will buy wine from elsewhere. If we are priced out of buying German cars we will buy Japanese. Conversely, if the Germans think Scottish whisky is too dear they will buy from other countries.

What we have to bear in mind is that we don't sell as much as we buy so the balance is always in our favour and we collect more duty revenue than UK businesses pay. In other words, we have a trading duty surplus at the Chancellor's disposal to spend as he wishes. In a civilised trading relationship this can work well. It's what the world has done for hundreds of years and so long as each side respects the other it's not a problem. By respect, I mean French trawlermen not blockading Channel ports and similar. What will be different in the present case is that there will initially be job losses on both sides as a result of the reduction in intra-EU trade, but this will change over time. It's not the end of the world like some on here seem to think.
 
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Fishing is a tiny, tiny sector in this country. We'll be making more from computer games than fishing. Why throw away a deal for a minuscule aspect of the economy? Why not agree to revisit fishing separately and agree on the remaining 95%?
That's what the UK want to do but the EU won't go for it. 'Everything must be agreed' and all that. If the EU can link fishing to everything else then that negates our leverage as fishing is the only real resource that the EU can never replicate.
 
Fishing is a tiny, tiny sector in this country. We'll be making more from computer games than fishing. Why throw away a deal for a minuscule aspect of the economy? Why not agree to revisit fishing separately and agree on the remaining 95%?
Surely we can now grow our fishing fleets and fish processing plants to rejuvenate coastal towns. Like Fleetwood & Grimsby etc.
 
There’s an argument to extend, but my gut feeling is that a deal that’s right for the U.K. won’t get done until after we’ve walked away.
 
Surely we can now grow our fishing fleets and fish processing plants to rejuvenate coastal towns. Like Fleetwood & Grimsby etc.
Oh yeh loads of the UK youth want to go into working on a trawler. FFS none of them want to go into the building trade when you are home at 5pm
 
There’s an argument to extend, but my gut feeling is that a deal that’s right for the U.K. won’t get done until after we’ve walked away.
We will get a deal on their terms that's why this is so stupid. How will we get a good deal if we walk away, it's fantasyland stuff
 
It looks increasingly like the EU won't have a deal in place with us by 1 January. That means we carry on trading with them on WTO terms. They will sell goods to us with tax and duty and we will sell a lower amount to them also with tax and duty. What will change is that the UK and the EU will be more selective about what they sell and buy. If French wine is too expensive we will buy wine from elsewhere. If we are priced out of buying German cars we will buy Japanese. Conversely, if the Germans think Scottish whisky is too dear they will buy from other countries.

What we have to bear in mind is that we don't sell as much as we buy so the balance is always in our favour and we collect more duty revenue than UK businesses pay. In other words, we have a trading duty surplus at the Chancellor's disposal to spend as he wishes. In a civilised trading relationship this can work well. It's what the world has done for hundreds of years and so long as each side respects the other it's not a problem. By respect, I mean French trawlermen not blockading Channel ports and similar. What will be different in the present case is that there will initially be job losses on both sides as a result of the reduction in intra-EU trade, but this will change over time. It's not the end of the world like some on here seem to think.
"we don't sell as much as we buy so the balance is always in our favour". How does that work in our favour then? If there is more tax and duty to pay in future and we are the ones buying more, then it will be us who will end up paying a lot more for our goods.
 
The EU has been begging for an extension for long enough, they would hardly object now. But it's not likely to happen. They've had plenty of time to reach agreement. As the Finnish MEP said this week: the UK has signed trade agreements with 60 countries, what's the matter with the EU that we can't agree a deal with them?
The UK has not in fact signed trade agreements with 60 countries. It has only managed to roll over 29 existing EU negotiated agreements covering 58 countries. That's somewhat different and doesn't give much confidence for the future that we would be able to negotiate better agreements on our own - which is probably obvious given it would be a market of 66 million on offer rather than the 500 million of the EU.
 
"we don't sell as much as we buy so the balance is always in our favour". How does that work in our favour then? If there is more tax and duty to pay in future and we are the ones buying more, then it will be us who will end up paying a lot more for our goods.
It doesn’t.

It’s just one of those things they say.

Like Wazzam!!!!!

Or The Roar of the Spitfire Engine!!!!!

Or Wibble!!!!
 
The UK has not in fact signed trade agreements with 60 countries. It has only managed to roll over 29 existing EU negotiated agreements covering 58 countries. That's somewhat different and doesn't give much confidence for the future that we would be able to negotiate better agreements on our own - which is probably obvious given it would be a market of 66 million on offer rather than the 500 million of the EU.
And as 20s says, there are well over 200 countries out there ...
 
We will get a deal on their terms that's why this is so stupid. How will we get a good deal if we walk away, it's fantasyland stuff
We’ll get a good deal if we walk away because that is how the EU appears to work. Once we walk away then they will capitulate in order to get us back round the table.

They are happy to continue to extend (no doubt indefinitely) and keep the pressure away from the deal making process.

Everyone is well aware of what they need to give to get a deal. I’d expect things to be concluded 48 hours after we walk.
 
"we don't sell as much as we buy so the balance is always in our favour". How does that work in our favour then? If there is more tax and duty to pay in future and we are the ones buying more, then it will be us who will end up paying a lot more for our goods.
The duty will only be added to goods that we produce as well. I believe the EU have a tariff of 12% for beef. If we duplicate that then a British steak will cost £3 and the Irish steak next to it on the shelf will cost £3.36. If you want to buy Irish then that's your choice but it will hardly make you homeless. Most food stuffs have a tariff of between 2% and 4%. So a British fish in Spain that costs €2.00 will cost €2.04. Europeans aren't going to change their eating habits over a few cents so UK fish will still be easily marketable in current EU markets even with no deal.

In reality though, those larger tariffs will be absorbed mainly by the producers so they sell their produce at a lower price to UK importers thus reducing profits and everything that entails. The traffic of goods is also in our favour as we mainly export low-tariff goods and they mainly export high-tariff goods to us. Buyers at Tesco and the like will also start to source from elsewhere in the world thus further reducing exposure to the EU.
 
The UK has not in fact signed trade agreements with 60 countries. It has only managed to roll over 29 existing EU negotiated agreements covering 58 countries. That's somewhat different and doesn't give much confidence for the future that we would be able to negotiate better agreements on our own - which is probably obvious given it would be a market of 66 million on offer rather than the 500 million of the EU.
Those 29 agreements represent the overwhelming bulk of the current EU arrangements. The only remaining ones are places like Moldova, Albania and Cameroon. Ghana are also resisting to agree on the same terms as the EU agreement for some local political reason.
The trade deals have been a conspicuous success as far as I can see. We should certainly prioritise the CPTPP next year over any future EU deal.
 
Looking at this Tariffs on a no deal then it looks like exports into the EU for beef would be 12.8% and imports from the EU to here would be 12%. So they are almost at the same level. Therefore, if we buy more off them than they buy from us, it will be us who pays more in duties. I fail to see how this benefits us compared to the free trade agreement we had before.
 
"we don't sell as much as we buy so the balance is always in our favour". How does that work in our favour then? If there is more tax and duty to pay in future and we are the ones buying more, then it will be us who will end up paying a lot more for our goods.

Simple maths. We collect duty and VAT on imported goods, which goes to the Exchequer. The UK receives more revenue. It decides what to do with all this lolly, like lowering taxes, keeping prices down or how about subsidising UK business sectors and unlevelling the playing field just to annoy the EU.
 
Looking at this Tariffs on a no deal then it looks like exports into the EU for beef would be 12.8% and imports from the EU to here would be 12%. So they are almost at the same level. Therefore, if we buy more off them than they buy from us, it will be us who pays more in duties. I fail to see how this benefits us compared to the free trade agreement we had before.
The tariffs are almost always at the same level. There would be no reason for us to charge them a lower amount for the same product.

The importer pays the tariff to HMRC but will mitigate that cost by reducing the wholesale price or by adding cost to the final consumer. So UK PLC benefits and sometimes the UK consumer will contribute to that but mainly by choice. If you can't live without your BMW or Bordeaux then you will contribute but that will be your choice. As said before, tariffs on goods we don't produce - say oranges - will be 0%.

I'm not sure what you mean about the 'FTA we had before'. We didn't have an FTA with the EU before because we were in a protectionist union. You don't see Argentine beef because of the 12.8% but you see plenty of Irish beef. The EU isn't a free trade organisation; it's a large scale protectionist bloc that uses it's consuming power to block competitive imports of goods that otherwise would put massive pressure on European farmers (and others) to change - and countries like France have no interest in that. That doesn't necessarily mean it's the wrong way to go about things, but it shouldn't be viewed as the default 'right' option.

Given the current world situation, WTO terms is almost certainly the best option at this moment. A genuine clean political break then, post Covid, when the dust settles and each side has got the political angst out their systems then it really should be much easier.
 
We’ll get a good deal if we walk away because that is how the EU appears to work. Once we walk away then they will capitulate in order to get us back round the table.

They are happy to continue to extend (no doubt indefinitely) and keep the pressure away from the deal making process.

Everyone is well aware of what they need to give to get a deal. I’d expect things to be concluded 48 hours after we walk.
Ok I'll let you believe that. The term capitulation is on the lines they need us more than we need them bollox. Walking away to WTO terms isn't a serious negotiatiating tactic it's embarrassing, it's akin to holding up a bank whilst holding a gun to your head.
 
The tariffs are almost always at the same level. There would be no reason for us to charge them a lower amount for the same product.

The importer pays the tariff to HMRC but will mitigate that cost by reducing the wholesale price or by adding cost to the final consumer. So UK PLC benefits and sometimes the UK consumer will contribute to that but mainly by choice. If you can't live without your BMW or Bordeaux then you will contribute but that will be your choice. As said before, tariffs on goods we don't produce - say oranges - will be 0%.

I'm not sure what you mean about the 'FTA we had before'. We didn't have an FTA with the EU before because we were in a protectionist union. You don't see Argentine beef because of the 12.8% but you see plenty of Irish beef. The EU isn't a free trade organisation; it's a large scale protectionist bloc that uses it's consuming power to block competitive imports of goods that otherwise would put massive pressure on European farmers (and others) to change - and countries like France have no interest in that. That doesn't necessarily mean it's the wrong way to go about things, but it shouldn't be viewed as the default 'right' option.

Given the current world situation, WTO terms is almost certainly the best option at this moment. A genuine clean political break then, post Covid, when the dust settles and each side has got the political angst out their systems then it really should be much easier.
Tariffs are small fry but will put costs to the UK consumer. Being out of the single market and the harmonisation of standards is more difficult to meet as an exporter and just in time supply lines are going to create huge problems for manufacturing. Even now basic building materials such as doors and windows had a 2 week lead in are now 12. We will reminisce how easy it was to buy goods.
 
The tariffs are almost always at the same level. There would be no reason for us to charge them a lower amount for the same product.

The importer pays the tariff to HMRC but will mitigate that cost by reducing the wholesale price or by adding cost to the final consumer. So UK PLC benefits and sometimes the UK consumer will contribute to that but mainly by choice. If you can't live without your BMW or Bordeaux then you will contribute but that will be your choice. As said before, tariffs on goods we don't produce - say oranges - will be 0%.

I'm not sure what you mean about the 'FTA we had before'. We didn't have an FTA with the EU before because we were in a protectionist union. You don't see Argentine beef because of the 12.8% but you see plenty of Irish beef. The EU isn't a free trade organisation; it's a large scale protectionist bloc that uses it's consuming power to block competitive imports of goods that otherwise would put massive pressure on European farmers (and others) to change - and countries like France have no interest in that. That doesn't necessarily mean it's the wrong way to go about things, but it shouldn't be viewed as the default 'right' option.

Given the current world situation, WTO terms is almost certainly the best option at this moment. A genuine clean political break then, post Covid, when the dust settles and each side has got the political angst out their systems then it really should be much easier.
Importing beef from Ireland at 0% sounds a quicker (fresher in terms of food) and cheaper option than transporting beef all the way from Argentina and the consumer paying an extra 12.8% on top. I may be able to take the hit on price increases but not sure the families already struggling to pay for food will find this a forward step.
 
Simple maths. We collect duty and VAT on imported goods, which goes to the Exchequer. The UK receives more revenue. It decides what to do with all this lolly, like lowering taxes, keeping prices down or how about subsidising UK business sectors and unlevelling the playing field just to annoy the EU.
It will come out of the UK consumer's pocket at the end of the day as importers pass on that cost.
 
Tariffs are small fry but will put costs to the UK consumer. Being out of the single market and the harmonisation of standards is more difficult to meet as an exporter and just in time supply lines are going to create huge problems for manufacturing. Even now basic building materials such as doors and windows had a 2 week lead in are now 12. We will reminisce how easy it was to buy goods.
Harmonisation of standards is the default setting for exporters. You can't sell electrical goods to the US unless you meet their standards and the same applies to the EU. The advantage is that all our standards already meet the EU standards.

JIT supply lines are what you make of them. It can be 2 days or 2 weeks - as long as the organisation is correct the time frame is largely irrelevant. I remember reading an article by a US car executive about this 'supply chain chaos' where they imported car parts from Mexico to assemble in the US. That had a turnaround of 4 weeks but they simply organised their production line accordingly and he couldn't believe the fuss that was being kicked up.
 
Ok I'll let you believe that. The term capitulation is on the lines they need us more than we need them bollox. Walking away to WTO terms isn't a serious negotiatiating tactic it's embarrassing, it's akin to holding up a bank whilst holding a gun to your head.
Thanks, that’s very good of you...

It’s actually nothing at all like your poor analogy.

It’s more like getting the bus home because you wouldn’t pay the asking price for a car you were interested in buying. You can bet your life that the Car Salesman would be calling you back with a better deal before you’d even got out of the showroom doors!!

It’s not about who has most to lose.... It’s about who is prepared to lose it.
 
Thanks, that’s very good of you...

It’s actually nothing at all like your poor analogy.

It’s more like getting the bus home because you wouldn’t pay the asking price for a car you were interested in buying. You can bet your life that the Car Salesman would be calling you back with a better deal before you’d even got out of the showroom doors!!

It’s not about who has most to lose.... It’s about who is prepared to lose it.
The car salesman wouldn't be calling you back at all. The EU want to maintain the single market and won't compromise, why should they?
 
Harmonisation of standards is the default setting for exporters. You can't sell electrical goods to the US unless you meet their standards and the same applies to the EU. The advantage is that all our standards already meet the EU standards.

JIT supply lines are what you make of them. It can be 2 days or 2 weeks - as long as the organisation is correct the time frame is largely irrelevant. I remember reading an article by a US car executive about this 'supply chain chaos' where they imported car parts from Mexico to assemble in the US. That had a turnaround of 4 weeks but they simply organised their production line accordingly and he couldn't believe the fuss that was being kicked up.
We automatically met EU standards when we were in the single market but the minute you leave that's not the case. We will also have to meet standards to individual markets without the muscle of a 13bn economy and 450 million people.
 
We automatically met EU standards when we were in the single market but the minute you leave that's not the case. We will also have to meet standards to individual markets without the muscle of a 13bn economy and 450 million people.
Which is why the USA thinks it can flood our market with hormone injected Beef and chlorine washed rotting chicken.
 
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