Fourth Ashes Test

Gutted to see the rain but stayed up to see some play - just coming out now. Come on England . . Show them what we can do 👍
 
Hameed test career is over for the second time. Crawley should of been out twice already too.

I know when I wake up in the morning England will be in their second innings and 2 or 3 down.
 
What a surprise to find ourselves two down for less than 50 runs. Rip it up and start again.
 
53 deliveries, no runs scored, three wickets.

I have never seen a worse England team. This could very well be one of our biggest ever defeats.
 
I can hardly believe that in their wisdom BT sport have offered a spin bowling masterclass at lunch. Three blokes in pink shirts sounding utterly ridiculous. This is the lowest ebb I can ever remember for English test cricket.
 
We're so shit it's unbelievable, our 'batsmen' could do with reading the MCC Cricket Coaching Book printed and produced back in the 1950s!
 
Stokes and Bairstow showing glimpses of that partnership in Cape Town 5yrs ago. Amazing what happens when you attack a bowler and fight fire with fire. Don't get me wrong, I still expect England to be all out for 250 and 4 down by Sunday but at least this pair have shown a bit of courage and aggression.
 
At least we’ve shown a bit of real bottle. The upper batting order should take a leaf out of this. Well Played Stokes and Bairstow through the pain. Buttler really can just do one now.
 
Excellent from the top 4 once again, fuck off back to county cricket you imposters ( Root exempt of course )
 
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I liked Broads interview after play yesterday. "Doesnt matter who the bowlers are, if you dont get runs on the board". Also liked his inference about looking too far ahead is bollocks. Quite right - make the lad captain, he might get them motivated !
 
Dougz said:
I liked Broads interview after play yesterday. "Doesnt matter who the bowlers are, if you dont get runs on the board". Also liked his inference about looking too far ahead is bollocks. Quite right - make the lad captain, he might get them motivated !
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He's absolutely right, the fact our batting is so poor, it puts even more pressure on our bowlers because of the freedom it gives Australia. They know that if they collapse and score 250, it will still be par or better than our lot can muster.
 
Well done the Gingers, Stokes and Bairstow finally giving us something to cheer about.

As for the top order we must have the worst openers who ever toured Australia or any other country for that matter, Burns, Pope, Crawley and Hameed are all averaging less than 13 with Hameed scoring just 71 runs in 7 innings for an average of 10.14, Australia's bowlers Starc, Cummins, Green and Carey are all averaging more than those four batsmen with fast bowler and number 9 batsman Starc scoring more runs than Hameed, Pope and Crawley put together. 😳
 
hertfordseasider said:
Hameed test career is over for the second time. Crawley should of been out twice already too.

I know when I wake up in the morning England will be in their second innings and 2 or 3 down.
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This series has confirmed my concern on selecting Hameed too early after showing a promising revival of form. He has a lot of potential, but his confidence is still fragile after his latter Lanky years.
 
Raging_Bull said:
Well done the Gingers, Stokes and Bairstow finally giving us something to cheer about.

As for the top order we must have the worst openers who ever toured Australia or any other country for that matter, Burns, Pope, Crawley and Hameed are all averaging less than 13 with Hameed scoring just 71 runs in 7 innings for an average of 10.14, Australia's bowlers Starc, Cummins, Green and Carey are all averaging more than those four batsmen with fast bowler and number 9 batsman Starc scoring more runs than Hameed, Pope and Crawley put together. 😳
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And that’s why we are we’re we are when a No9 batsman (a bowler) has scored more runs than three of our opening batsmen.
 
I'm not sure what the long term answer is here, sure our preparation for this tour was nothing short of scandalous so the management take a heap of blame, but what has been said for a long time is the issues we have with preparing players for test cricket, the Aussies benefit from the Sheffield Shield which is a great grounding for Test cricket as the level is so much higher than County cricket which our players are brought up in, this gives them a false impression on how good they are (or think they are) and once they get exposed to world class bowlers they get slaughtered whereas the Sheffield Shield is a far better stepping stone. Ideally we would want a regionalised set up with just six teams playing a Sheffield Shield type format, North East, North West, Midlands, London x 2 and South West. This would give players a far better grounding playing cricket at a higher level than County Cricket which can be left to the next level down (similar to grade cricket in Sydney).
 
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Raging_Bull said:
I'm not sure what the long term answer is here, sure our preparation for this tour was nothing short of scandalous so the management take a heap of blame, but what has been said for a long time is the issues we have with preparing players for test cricket, the Aussies benefit from the Sheffield Shield which is a great grounding for Test cricket as the level is so much higher than County cricket which our players are brought up in, this gives them a false impression on how good they are (or thing they are) and once they get exposed to world class bowlers they get slaughtered whereas the Sheffield Shield is a far better stepping stone. Ideally we would want a regionalised set up with just six teams playing a Sheffield Shield type format, North East, North West, Midlands, London x 2 and South West. This would give players a far better grounding playing cricket at a higher level than County Cricket which can be left to the next level down (similar to grade cricket in Sydney).
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Fully agree Bully. The country championship is diluted in quality and is not close enough to Test cricket to provide a manageable step for players coming into Test cricket. But I doubt it will change as counties will do everything they can to stop it.
 
Dougz said:
I liked Broads interview after play yesterday. "Doesnt matter who the bowlers are, if you dont get runs on the board". Also liked his inference about looking too far ahead is bollocks. Quite right - make the lad captain, he might get them motivated !
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And the thing is, the Bowlers are the ones where they've been moved around. Rotated and scapegoated.
 
Think that’ll be Bairstow back behind the stumps. I feel for Buttler, such a destructive player and would be a different proposition in a better batting team. Generally coming in after a major collapse, batting with the tail, his confidence has been drained.
 
Drop Buttler, give Bairstow the gloves.

Play Roy, Hales and Livingstone as our top 3. Shift Malan and Root down a spot to hopefully have them coming in after the opposition have chased a bit of leather. It isn't ideal for Test Match cricket but has to be better than Burns, Dibley, Hameed and Crawley.
 
Latest reports are Sam Billings has been added to the Test squad to cover for injuries, it goes on to say Jos Buttler is struggling with a hand problem, they're not wrong there, he keeps handing his wicket to the Aussies. 😳
 
NewburyOne said:
Drop Buttler, give Bairstow the gloves.

Play Roy, Hales and Livingstone as our top 3. Shift Malan and Root down a spot to hopefully have them coming in after the opposition have chased a bit of leather. It isn't ideal for Test Match cricket but has to be better than Burns, Dibley, Hameed and Crawley.
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Not a bad shout at all Newbury, lets face it, they can't do any worse than the current lot, in fact South Shore Cricket Clubs top order could do better.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
Think that’ll be Bairstow back behind the stumps. I feel for Buttler, such a destructive player and would be a different proposition in a better batting team. Generally coming in after a major collapse, batting with the tail, his confidence has been drained.
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They need to swallow their pride and get Foakes back in the side.

One good innings from Bairstow doesn't suddenly make him a regular player and our first choice test keeper . . . he has been awful for most of the year.

It is obvious that the top order needs some serious work but to throw in white ball players who have already failed at test level isn't the answer. We tried it with Buttler and totally forgot about the guy who is allegedly the 'worlds best keeper'. The problems run a lot deeper with the lack of test quality openers in the county game. It's not just England too . . most of the top test teams have struggled with their openers in recent years . . even Australia.

Roy, Hales, Vince, Duckett, etc. have all been tried at test level and failed.

I would certainly have another look at Vince who I believe is one of the best natural talents in the country . I believe he's ready for another go but where would he bat? Malan & Root IMO should stay at 3 & 4.

Hameed has had a nightmare and I agree was probably brought back into the England team too soon and thrown to the lions facing the toughest challenge in world cricket. He needed to eased back in against a team like WI or a home series.

I do believe their is a test cricketer in there but his confidence is just shot . . . along with Crawley and Pope who have also had poor runs I think they all have an England future with the red ball.
 
straightatthewall said:
Fully agree Bully. The country championship is diluted in quality and is not close enough to Test cricket to provide a manageable step for players coming into Test cricket. But I doubt it will change as counties will do everything they can to stop it.
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It won't be if they won't let Test players (Eng) play in it.

Well, that's the 2 sessions won for the series.

Bairstow plus and minus. Plus he got an aggressive ton, minus, he's now undroppable for the next 5/6 tests.
 
NewburyOne said:
Drop Buttler, give Bairstow the gloves.

Play Roy, Hales and Livingstone as our top 3. Shift Malan and Root down a spot to hopefully have them coming in after the opposition have chased a bit of leather. It isn't ideal for Test Match cricket but has to be better than Burns, Dibley, Hameed and Crawley.
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Don't like that at all. Roy doesn't have it for test cricket, like Buttler doesn't either. Agree Hales should be given another go but definitely won't be.
 
Leither said:
Roy, Hales, Vince, Duckett, etc. have all been tried at test level and failed.
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Leither, you are correct there, but I'd bet my last tenner all would be averaging more than Hameed's paltry 10.14, especially James Vince who is a class act.
 
SeasideKurt said:
Don't like that at all. Roy doesn't have it for test cricket, like Buttler doesn't either. Agree Hales should be given another go but definitely won't be.
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It's a suggestion given we have zero openers who can actually bat to Test Match standard. If we can't grind out slow runs, we may as well play hitters who will at least challenge the bowlers. Our current top order are nothing but bunnies.
 
NewburyOne said:
It's a suggestion given we have zero openers who can actually bat to Test Match standard. If we can't grind out slow runs, we may as well play hitters who will at least challenge the bowlers. Our current top order are nothing but bunnies.
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No I get it and I'd rather watch Roy Hales and Vince than Hameed Crawley Burns Sibley. It's actually pretty ridiculous they are even near the team when you look at the quality of those 3 against the second 4.
 
SeasideKurt said:
Don't like that at all. Roy doesn't have it for test cricket, like Buttler doesn't either. Agree Hales should be given another go but definitely won't be.
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Do they not have it or have they been too white ball focused (not saying that's their fault either).

If we take your mate JV, he's been playing a lot of white ball cricket and playing it well - whether franchise or international - but he's also still Hampshire's number 1 red ball batsman. Obviously he's a little more refined than Roy, Hales or Livi, but my general point is that there's too much focus on the format a player should play rather then whether they are good enough for all formats. Look at the Aussies and India. Many of their top batters and bowlers are the top players in all formats, not just one.

Bairstow got a ton today, not because he went out to try and smash it around and took advantage of the fielding restrictions, but because he has enough technique, quality and mental strength to make runs at Test level. 4,500 Test runs, 7 centuries and 20-odd 50's back that up.

I should add, that I think there's some strength in what you're saying too. Not every player is right for Test cricket and will get exposed through lack of technique. But surely there's a middle ground. Just as not every T20 batsman needs to be able to hit the ball out of the ground.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
Think that’ll be Bairstow back behind the stumps. I feel for Buttler, such a destructive player and would be a different proposition in a better batting team. Generally coming in after a major collapse, batting with the tail, his confidence has been drained.
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Or Ben Foakes, deserves another chance
 
fcblackpool said:
It won't be if they won't let Test players (Eng) play in it.

Well, that's the 2 sessions won for the series.

Bairstow plus and minus. Plus he got an aggressive ton, minus, he's now undroppable for the next 5/6 tests.
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Couldn't agree more regarding Bairstow. As for the prospect of him keeping wicket, look at the size of him. At least a C cup. He'd make Flat Jack look svelte.
 
Hammed looks OK at times then again he looks well dodgy, take the captaincy off root give it butler who's a good batsman foakes should be behind the stumps
 
hertfordseasider said:
Hameed test career is over for the second time. Crawley should of been out twice already too.

I know when I wake up in the morning England will be in their second innings and 2 or 3 down.
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Have you woken up yet ? A bit of praise ,when it is due , for Bairstow , Stokes and Wood wouldn't go
amiss don't you think?
 
I totally agree with the comment about the championship being a poor training ground with too many teams. I like the tradition though and divisional cricket should in theory give a compromise by providing a top tier akin to Sheffield Shield cricket and the lower tiers being broadly feeder tiers (kind of like grade cricket) but with promotion and relegation.

Problem is partly that the top tier of county championship is really the third or fourth priority cos the money lies in other comps.

The quality has declined hugely as well because of two things...

1) The absurdity of playing in April and Sept (and even March/October) meaning learning to bat long just doesn't happen and we have no spinners/can't play spin

2) Long before the IPL, the championship was THE destination for world class cricketers to get a contract. The days of each county having a few top class internationals playing are long gone. The best England players don't even play in it any more most of the time. A developing player rarely pits their wits against the best players any more.

It's why all the names on here are pointless. They're all flawed and they've all been picked and tried before.

What is needed is to select a core of players, coach and lead them well and hope they learn. It's kind of how tbe Windies came back from the brink to become a passable impression of a test team again.

Less of all this 'taking the positives' and 'the guys are hurting but we know we're a great team really' shite. Some canny leadership, not ** middle management shit.

Feel sorry for Root myself,don't blame him but he's not a captain. He's just an affable and talented man who they're stuck with because they literally darent make anyone else captain cos they're too old or Ben Stokes or liable to get dropped next week.
 
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