Fred From Hartlepool..

kuriousoranj

Well-known member
on LBC radio today' praising the Tories because ...wait for it..
they have 9 food banks now and Labour didn't give them any!

and you wonder why people sneer.
 
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on LBC radio today' praising the Tories because ...wait for it..
they have 9 food banks now and Labour didn't give them any!
and you wonder why people sneer.

Or as an independent journalist said

One man of 86 tells me, in all seriousness, that he is too old to vote. Hartlepool once made ships; it had 43 ship-owning companies in 1913. Now it makes ennui. It has some of the highest rates of male unemployment (9.7%) and child poverty (32% of children in workless households) in Britain. The A&E has gone, the police lock-up and magistrates court have gone, and maternity services have gone. No one is born in Hartlepool anymore, except in error. Many things have harmed Labour here: corruption, individualism and the desire to punish the villain they can touch. “Here Labour is the establishment,” says Rachel Featherstone, the Green Party candidate. But the most important is a failure of representation which Brexit exposed so gaudily it could not be ignored. Labour is two parties now, co-existing uneasily, which is why Keir Starmer is pale with fretting: pro-Remain London and the other affluent cities, and places like this. The two despise each other, but only one side will admit to it.
 
When you look at places like Hartlepool, Fleetwood and Blackpool- it’s just a continued story of neglect and lack of investment.
Both parties have failed these towns - more so the Torys as they held power longer. Brexit was almost inevitable or at least some form of total rebellion as nothing is helping these places.
I don’t believe they will benefit from Brexit either to be honest, but certainly the status quo since the 70s wasn’t working either
 
When you look at places like Hartlepool, Fleetwood and Blackpool- it’s just a continued story of neglect and lack of investment.
Both parties have failed these towns - more so the Torys as they held power longer. Brexit was almost inevitable or at least some form of total rebellion as nothing is helping these places.
I don’t believe they will benefit from Brexit either to be honest, but certainly the status quo since the 70s wasn’t working either
One of the many ironies of Brexit was that subsidies to the UK from the EU targeted the poorer areas which is in stark contrast to what Westminster has ever done. So bizarrely, some of the areas receiving those subsidies had the highest leave vote. Unless Westminster dramatically changes its thinking, those areas will be in an even bigger mess than they are now.
 
In 2017, Labour under Corbyn’s leadership, smashed previous records and won the seat with over 52% of the vote.
After a total of 4 years of abuse, smears, lies and sabotage he still managed to win the seat with 37% of the vote.
Under Starmer Labour loses for the first time since the seat was created.... with a mere 28%.
On the BBC Mandelson says this is all Corbyn’s fault. Apparently the people of Hartlepool hate Corbyn.
 
One of the many ironies of Brexit was that subsidies to the UK from the EU targeted the poorer areas which is in stark contrast to what Westminster has ever done. So bizarrely, some of the areas receiving those subsidies had the highest leave vote. Unless Westminster dramatically changes its thinking, those areas will be in an even bigger mess than they are now.

Valid point. European money has come to deprived towns like Blackpool, but then again British money to the EU has been used to rebuild seaside towns in Spain, Portugal, Greece etc. Let's hope that the UK's previous contributions to the EU are now directed to the north of England to restore some of its former glories, promote new business, reduce unemployment and address the poverty that is so rife in the north.
 
In 2017, Labour under Corbyn’s leadership, smashed previous records and won the seat with over 52% of the vote.
After a total of 4 years of abuse, smears, lies and sabotage he still managed to win the seat with 37% of the vote.
Under Starmer Labour loses for the first time since the seat was created.... with a mere 28%.
On the BBC Mandelson says this is all Corbyn’s fault. Apparently the people of Hartlepool hate Corbyn.

I said the other day that the left could give the Tories a run for their money when it came to arrogance and it was people like you I had in mind.

I don't think anyone in H'pool "hates" Corbyn and the like. But they don't trust them or feel that they ever listen.

Not sure what Keith does now. But that panic job over Rayner last night won't help.
 
Valid point. European money has come to deprived towns like Blackpool, but then again British money to the EU has been used to rebuild seaside towns in Spain, Portugal, Greece etc. Let's hope that the UK's previous contributions to the EU are now directed to the north of England to restore some of its former glories, promote new business, reduce unemployment and address the poverty that is so rife in the north.
We can hope but scepticism comes with two facts: (1) balancing investment across areas of the country other than the South East was entirely possible before Brexit but was largely overlooked, (2) the country is massively out of pocket now compared to the net contributions it used to make to the EU so not sure where the investment capital will now come from.
 
I said the other day that the left could give the Tories a run for their money when it came to arrogance and it was people like you I had in mind.

I don't think anyone in H'pool "hates" Corbyn and the like. But they don't trust them or feel that they ever listen.

Not sure what Keith does now. But that panic job over Rayner last night won't help.
You wouldn't be out of place stood on the the deck of that ship, you really wouldn't.

It has absolutely nothing to do with arrogance.
 
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You wouldn't be out of place stood on the the deck of that ship, you really wouldn't.

It has absolutely nothing to do with arrogance.

It might be just a question of style of posting. But you come across as thinking you know how to run people's lives better than they do. Just my impression.
 
So the Tories are feeding the poor and Labour left them for dead. Who’s sneering now. And you wonder why Labour are finished 🤦🏻‍♂️
I'm not sure you quite grasp the point there fella. You're not Fred from Hartlepool by any chance?
 
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One Labour councillor did time for fraud after her company, with 2 Labour Councillors on the board, were awarded a £750k without going through the procurement process.

Labour Police & Crime Commissioner chose to close the custody suite in Hartlepool.

Labour MP & Labour led council chose to remove services from the award winning local Hospital in favour of a new super hospital that never got built.

Father of the then Labour Leader had shared on the company which subsequently won the contract to run the urgent care services (Virgin)

Dr P Williams, was part of the process which removed those services. He is also part of the private company which was awarded the contract as *some* of them are brought back.

There's a very long list of reasons why Labour locally aren't very good and that's before we talk about the mess they are in nationally.

The truth is a bit more complicated than taking the piss out of an old man for having the temerity to vote for a different party.
 
What saddens me is the lack of nuance from the British electorate. Brexit was a debatable issue good or bad, but you would have to have real balls to talk about it that way at the time. Much easier to either get on the big red bus or start bizarrely worshipping the EU. The success or failure of government is a massively complicated thing, it can directly kill people off at the bottom of the ladder or destroy business interests overnight. So it makes absolutely no sense to ‘support’ the Prime Minister or a political party like it’s a ** football team. They don’t give a fuck about us, that’s not something to despair about it’s just the way it is and we should be forever on our toes. It makes me genuinely depressed to see the amount of people in communities, industries, even families that have been abandoned by this government and its wreckless ineptitude still support and try to defend the PM and cabinet. They will respond to any criticism or negative story with a sort of vomit-worthy ‘not our Boris’ narrative.

Don’t get me wrong, I was at Glasgow uni through two general elections, an independence referendum and the brexit vote, I’ve had to listen to a lot of delusional people on the left as well. People who want to talk about what they would do to change the country but never give a second of thought to how they would actually win an election.

But nonetheless it boggles me how people of all political creeds, in today’s discourse, seem to approach politics like a national sport with two teams. It’s not sustainable for the long term good of the country that people already know whose side they’re on before they’ve evaluated the facts in each case, and most nowadays don’t read past a headline - I even catch myself doing that sometimes, regurgitating a news story that I didn’t actually read!

We’re all very aware how toxic and manipulated social media and handheld devices are to our connection with reality, and yet I find people sort of over the age of 40 tend to think because they grew up without it they’re immune to the negative side effects. Where the absolute opposite is the case. More and more older people spend mad amounts of time on FB, commenting on news articles, online shopping, giving all their data away without realizing it etc. Etc. And they don’t want to accept that doing all of this without checking yourself is literally signing yourself up for brainwashing from the highest bidder, which in most cases these days is either Moscow or one of the two main political parties in any western democracy. And it goes beyond politics, hundreds thousands of companies know exactly what time of day *you* as in *just you* are going to be relaxed and thus responsive to advertising certain products, or stressed and thus responsive to advertising holidays and medicines.

This is literal, proven fact and yet whether it’s indyref or brexit or tory sleaze or a general election or whatever most people mindlessly accept whatever information is presented to them, it is mind blowing sometimes how people don’t hear themselves just regurgitating exactly what Cambridge Analytica or whatever successor big brother company need you to regurgitate. Getting angry with faceless profiles and using threats and calling names, not realizing at all that they’re just in a state of road rage basically because of the amount of negative shit being expertly injected into your emotional sensitivities.

Especially in the case of places like Blackpool, completely and increasingly ** neglected and turned into a social landfill slowly but surely with imported mental health demographics. Why oh why can the community not come together and say fuck off to the labour and conservative councils that have consistently done nothing but spend money on needless shit to protect their budgets for years and years and ** years. Wasted countless golden opportunities to save what precious little magic remained from our very proud, beautiful local history. Why do we still vote for MPs, again from both sides, that are not even from our wonderful town and do not know the first thing about what it needs. Cunts who are literally, obviously on a mission to dilute our individual strength and autonomy and replace that with more Westminstralisation. Most people, red and blue, will go along with it if it’s their ** ‘team’ despite the fact nothing ever changes. It may as well be X Factor or I’m a Celeb they’re voting in honestly for the way they perceive it.

And everybody just gets more nasty, less willing to listen, and they respond to what they perceive as hatred from the opposition with just more hatred. Imagine going to the pearly gates and having to watch that shit back, it’s embarrassing! “Yeah well Labour supporters nerrr nerrr ** nerr” or “Well all tories are evil cunts and it’s not even worth talking to them”, this shit is rife, it’s the status quo, and it’s so so so so dumb. All these tories on here whose arguments in support of Boris start with the word “Labour...” and Labour supporters who when asked why they are voting for Keir Starmer start their answers with ‘well Boris Johnson...’. These privately educated pricks are laughing at you as you umm and ahh over which one you would rather to get shafted by.

Engaging in political discourse on social media is like having a philosophical debate in the middle of a traffic jam at 8:45am on a Monday morning. You’re not gonna ** get anywhere with it. Next time you’re tempted to go ape at somebody, ask yourself what compromise you might be able to reach in an ideal world. If there isn’t one, then why burst a vein over it? Leading to both of you just leaning more on your convictions and failing to actually think with a clear mind? People really need to wake up and realize that this status quo is destroying us and our communities.
 
What saddens me is the lack of nuance from the British electorate. Brexit was a debatable issue good or bad, but you would have to have real balls to talk about it that way at the time. Much easier to either get on the big red bus or start bizarrely worshipping the EU. The success or failure of government is a massively complicated thing, it can directly kill people off at the bottom of the ladder or destroy business interests overnight. So it makes absolutely no sense to ‘support’ the Prime Minister or a political party like it’s a ** football team. They don’t give a fuck about us, that’s not something to despair about it’s just the way it is and we should be forever on our toes. It makes me genuinely depressed to see the amount of people in communities, industries, even families that have been abandoned by this government and its wreckless ineptitude still support and try to defend the PM and cabinet. They will respond to any criticism or negative story with a sort of vomit-worthy ‘not our Boris’ narrative.

Don’t get me wrong, I was at Glasgow uni through two general elections, an independence referendum and the brexit vote, I’ve had to listen to a lot of delusional people on the left as well. People who want to talk about what they would do to change the country but never give a second of thought to how they would actually win an election.

But nonetheless it boggles me how people of all political creeds, in today’s discourse, seem to approach politics like a national sport with two teams. It’s not sustainable for the long term good of the country that people already know whose side they’re on before they’ve evaluated the facts in each case, and most nowadays don’t read past a headline - I even catch myself doing that sometimes, regurgitating a news story that I didn’t actually read!

We’re all very aware how toxic and manipulated social media and handheld devices are to our connection with reality, and yet I find people sort of over the age of 40 tend to think because they grew up without it they’re immune to the negative side effects. Where the absolute opposite is the case. More and more older people spend mad amounts of time on FB, commenting on news articles, online shopping, giving all their data away without realizing it etc. Etc. And they don’t want to accept that doing all of this without checking yourself is literally signing yourself up for brainwashing from the highest bidder, which in most cases these days is either Moscow or one of the two main political parties in any western democracy. And it goes beyond politics, hundreds thousands of companies know exactly what time of day *you* as in *just you* are going to be relaxed and thus responsive to advertising certain products, or stressed and thus responsive to advertising holidays and medicines.

This is literal, proven fact and yet whether it’s indyref or brexit or tory sleaze or a general election or whatever most people mindlessly accept whatever information is presented to them, it is mind blowing sometimes how people don’t hear themselves just regurgitating exactly what Cambridge Analytica or whatever successor big brother company need you to regurgitate. Getting angry with faceless profiles and using threats and calling names, not realizing at all that they’re just in a state of road rage basically because of the amount of negative shit being expertly injected into your emotional sensitivities.

Especially in the case of places like Blackpool, completely and increasingly ** neglected and turned into a social landfill slowly but surely with imported mental health demographics. Why oh why can the community not come together and say fuck off to the labour and conservative councils that have consistently done nothing but spend money on needless shit to protect their budgets for years and years and ** years. Wasted countless golden opportunities to save what precious little magic remained from our very proud, beautiful local history. Why do we still vote for MPs, again from both sides, that are not even from our wonderful town and do not know the first thing about what it needs. Cunts who are literally, obviously on a mission to dilute our individual strength and autonomy and replace that with more Westminstralisation. Most people, red and blue, will go along with it if it’s their ** ‘team’ despite the fact nothing ever changes. It may as well be X Factor or I’m a Celeb they’re voting in honestly for the way they perceive it.

And everybody just gets more nasty, less willing to listen, and they respond to what they perceive as hatred from the opposition with just more hatred. Imagine going to the pearly gates and having to watch that shit back, it’s embarrassing! “Yeah well Labour supporters nerrr nerrr ** nerr” or “Well all tories are evil cunts and it’s not even worth talking to them”, this shit is rife, it’s the status quo, and it’s so so so so dumb. All these tories on here whose arguments in support of Boris start with the word “Labour...” and Labour supporters who when asked why they are voting for Keir Starmer start their answers with ‘well Boris Johnson...’. These privately educated pricks are laughing at you as you umm and ahh over which one you would rather to get shafted by.

Engaging in political discourse on social media is like having a philosophical debate in the middle of a traffic jam at 8:45am on a Monday morning. You’re not gonna ** get anywhere with it. Next time you’re tempted to go ape at somebody, ask yourself what compromise you might be able to reach in an ideal world. If there isn’t one, then why burst a vein over it? Leading to both of you just leaning more on your convictions and failing to actually think with a clear mind? People really need to wake up and realize that this status quo is destroying us and our communities.
Amen.
 
One of the many ironies of Brexit was that subsidies to the UK from the EU targeted the poorer areas which is in stark contrast to what Westminster has ever done. So bizarrely, some of the areas receiving those subsidies had the highest leave vote. Unless Westminster dramatically changes its thinking, those areas will be in an even bigger mess than they are now.

What incentive do the tories have to help these places if continuing to neglect them has only made them more conservative?
 
What incentive do the tories have to help these places if continuing to neglect them has only made them more conservative?
In the case of Hartlepool, the Tory Mayor has delivered a Freeport and they are upgrading the local airport, I think. Created quite a lot of new and reasonably paid jobs. Thirteen years under Blair and local MP Mandelson didn't deliver that, and people do remember.
 
In the case of Hartlepool, the Tory Mayor has delivered a Freeport and they are upgrading the local airport, I think. Created quite a lot of new and reasonably paid jobs. Thirteen years under Blair and local MP Mandelson didn't deliver that, and people do remember.
I'm not sure their vote was anything to do with Blair. They elected a Labour MP under Corbyn, twice...albeit the last one with a reduced majority.
This is still all about Brexit and Labour's ridiculous policy on it...by trying to please both wings of the Party and it's voters, it's literally ended up ** off the lot of them.
 
The o/p perfectly encapsulates why the Labour party has alienated much of it's traditional voter base.
The sneering illiberal liberals continue to treat voters as idiots because they don't agree with their views - they don't listen but just preach.
The fact that Labour chose an outspoken remainer as their candidate in Hartlepool shows that they think they know better than the voters.
Starmer seems a decent, albeit boring, bloke who has a seemingly impossible job appealing to both traditional labour supporters )who tend to be strongly pro Brexit); and the EU loving home counties centric, self styled liberal elite (aka sneering illiberal liberals) who refuse to accept they can ever be wrong about anything and don't feel the need to debate or engage with people who hold different views - unless it's insults or sneering - unfortunately too many of them post on here - you know who you are and I am sure Boris appreciates your help 😉
 
What saddens me is the lack of nuance from the British electorate. Brexit was a debatable issue good or bad, but you would have to have real balls to talk about it that way at the time. Much easier to either get on the big red bus or start bizarrely worshipping the EU. The success or failure of government is a massively complicated thing, it can directly kill people off at the bottom of the ladder or destroy business interests overnight. So it makes absolutely no sense to ‘support’ the Prime Minister or a political party like it’s a ** football team. They don’t give a fuck about us, that’s not something to despair about it’s just the way it is and we should be forever on our toes. It makes me genuinely depressed to see the amount of people in communities, industries, even families that have been abandoned by this government and its wreckless ineptitude still support and try to defend the PM and cabinet. They will respond to any criticism or negative story with a sort of vomit-worthy ‘not our Boris’ narrative.

Don’t get me wrong, I was at Glasgow uni through two general elections, an independence referendum and the brexit vote, I’ve had to listen to a lot of delusional people on the left as well. People who want to talk about what they would do to change the country but never give a second of thought to how they would actually win an election.

But nonetheless it boggles me how people of all political creeds, in today’s discourse, seem to approach politics like a national sport with two teams. It’s not sustainable for the long term good of the country that people already know whose side they’re on before they’ve evaluated the facts in each case, and most nowadays don’t read past a headline - I even catch myself doing that sometimes, regurgitating a news story that I didn’t actually read!

We’re all very aware how toxic and manipulated social media and handheld devices are to our connection with reality, and yet I find people sort of over the age of 40 tend to think because they grew up without it they’re immune to the negative side effects. Where the absolute opposite is the case. More and more older people spend mad amounts of time on FB, commenting on news articles, online shopping, giving all their data away without realizing it etc. Etc. And they don’t want to accept that doing all of this without checking yourself is literally signing yourself up for brainwashing from the highest bidder, which in most cases these days is either Moscow or one of the two main political parties in any western democracy. And it goes beyond politics, hundreds thousands of companies know exactly what time of day *you* as in *just you* are going to be relaxed and thus responsive to advertising certain products, or stressed and thus responsive to advertising holidays and medicines.

This is literal, proven fact and yet whether it’s indyref or brexit or tory sleaze or a general election or whatever most people mindlessly accept whatever information is presented to them, it is mind blowing sometimes how people don’t hear themselves just regurgitating exactly what Cambridge Analytica or whatever successor big brother company need you to regurgitate. Getting angry with faceless profiles and using threats and calling names, not realizing at all that they’re just in a state of road rage basically because of the amount of negative shit being expertly injected into your emotional sensitivities.

Especially in the case of places like Blackpool, completely and increasingly ** neglected and turned into a social landfill slowly but surely with imported mental health demographics. Why oh why can the community not come together and say fuck off to the labour and conservative councils that have consistently done nothing but spend money on needless shit to protect their budgets for years and years and ** years. Wasted countless golden opportunities to save what precious little magic remained from our very proud, beautiful local history. Why do we still vote for MPs, again from both sides, that are not even from our wonderful town and do not know the first thing about what it needs. Cunts who are literally, obviously on a mission to dilute our individual strength and autonomy and replace that with more Westminstralisation. Most people, red and blue, will go along with it if it’s their ** ‘team’ despite the fact nothing ever changes. It may as well be X Factor or I’m a Celeb they’re voting in honestly for the way they perceive it.

And everybody just gets more nasty, less willing to listen, and they respond to what they perceive as hatred from the opposition with just more hatred. Imagine going to the pearly gates and having to watch that shit back, it’s embarrassing! “Yeah well Labour supporters nerrr nerrr ** nerr” or “Well all tories are evil cunts and it’s not even worth talking to them”, this shit is rife, it’s the status quo, and it’s so so so so dumb. All these tories on here whose arguments in support of Boris start with the word “Labour...” and Labour supporters who when asked why they are voting for Keir Starmer start their answers with ‘well Boris Johnson...’. These privately educated pricks are laughing at you as you umm and ahh over which one you would rather to get shafted by.

Engaging in political discourse on social media is like having a philosophical debate in the middle of a traffic jam at 8:45am on a Monday morning. You’re not gonna ** get anywhere with it. Next time you’re tempted to go ape at somebody, ask yourself what compromise you might be able to reach in an ideal world. If there isn’t one, then why burst a vein over it? Leading to both of you just leaning more on your convictions and failing to actually think with a clear mind? People really need to wake up and realize that this status quo is destroying us and our communities.

👏👏👏👏👏👏
 
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