Freedom of Speech and the Queens Death

ElBurroSinNombre

ElBurroSinNombre

Well-known member
It seems that the police are now using the new policing act to arrest and charge people for protesting in public in relation to the death of the queen.

The incident below was certainly disrespectful given the circumstances but arrest and charged? - really
www.bbc.co.uk

Man charged over heckling of Prince Andrew as he followed coffin

The Duke of York was shouted at as he walked up the Royal Mile behind the Queen's coffin.
www.bbc.co.uk

It seems that holding a blank sheet of paper can get the law involved.
www.legalcheek.com

Garden Court barrister threatened with arrest if he wrote ‘not my King’ on blank sheet of paper - Legal Cheek

Footage of incident goes viral
www.legalcheek.com www.legalcheek.com

And someone else arrested for actually holding a piece of paper with writing on it - echoes of the Oyston 'we are thieves' case - which incidentally they lost in court
www.standard.co.uk

Anti-royal protester with ‘not my king’ sign led away by police

She unfurled a ‘Not My King’ sign near the Palace of Westminster
www.standard.co.uk www.standard.co.uk

And PNE getting involved as well, this ban is probably illegal and it looks like it's going to be tested in the courts.
fanbanter.co.uk

Preston accused of issuing lifetime stadium ban to fan for tweet on Queen and Royal Family - Fan Banter

Preston North End have been accused of issuing a lifetime stadium ban to a fan for a tweet was posted on the Queen and Royal Family. @Faircop_ have seen a letter which had been sent to the fan by the Championship club on the 10th of September, issuing a ban from all grounds. Faircop, who […]
fanbanter.co.uk fanbanter.co.uk

What sort of country have we become where if you protest against something in a peaceful manner you could end up with an arrest and charge or even a ban from watching your football team?
 
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Johnno said:
Any tw*t who thinks it acceptable to protest during a funeral procession won’t get any sympathy from me. Callous bastards IMO.
Protest all you want outside Buckingham Palace after the funeral, not during what is essentially a show of respect to a mother, grandmother etc.
Absolute scum.
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If only there was some sort of famous quote regarding free speech you personally depsise which might be relevant here. I can't quite think of it.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
It seems that the police are now using the new policing act to arrest and charge people for protesting in public in relation to the death of the queen.

The incident below was certainly disrespectful given the circumstances but arrest and charged? - really
www.bbc.co.uk

Man charged over heckling of Prince Andrew as he followed coffin

The Duke of York was shouted at as he walked up the Royal Mile behind the Queen's coffin.
www.bbc.co.uk

It seems that holding a blank sheet of paper can get the law involved.
www.legalcheek.com

Garden Court barrister threatened with arrest if he wrote ‘not my King’ on blank sheet of paper - Legal Cheek

Footage of incident goes viral
www.legalcheek.com www.legalcheek.com

And someone else arrested for actually holding a piece of paper with writing on it - echoes of the Oyston 'we are thieves' case - which incidentally they lost in court
www.standard.co.uk

Anti-royal protester with ‘not my king’ sign led away by police

She unfurled a ‘Not My King’ sign near the Palace of Westminster
www.standard.co.uk www.standard.co.uk

And PNE getting involved as well, this ban is probably illegal and it looks like it's going to be tested in the courts.
fanbanter.co.uk

Preston accused of issuing lifetime stadium ban to fan for tweet on Queen and Royal Family - Fan Banter

Preston North End have been accused of issuing a lifetime stadium ban to a fan for a tweet was posted on the Queen and Royal Family. @Faircop_ have seen a letter which had been sent to the fan by the Championship club on the 10th of September, issuing a ban from all grounds. Faircop, who […]
fanbanter.co.uk fanbanter.co.uk

What sort of country have we become where if you protest against something in a peaceful manner you could end up with an arrest and charge or even a ban from watching your football team?
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It's a little heavy handed to be arrested for holding up a placard saying Not My King.

Ironic that someone gets arrested for calling Prince Andrew a nonce, when he's never been charged for being a nonce.

It's a sensitive time, but if someone was arrested in Moscow or Pyongyang, we'd be accusing them of being undemocratic and heavy handed.
 
Wizaard said:
It's a little heavy handed to be arrested for holding up a placard saying Not My King.

Ironic that someone gets arrested for calling Prince Andrew a nonce, when he's never been charged for being a nonce.

It's a sensitive time, but if someone was arrested in Moscow or Pyongyang, we'd be accusing them of being undemocratic and heavy handed.
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I can see the argument for removing someone who is seriously breaching the peace at what is quite clearly an 'event' of national mourning. One person shouting abuse at a rapist for 10 seconds as he passed does not meet what should be a very high bar for arresting that person. And certainly not whoever it was who was arrested for holding a sign peacefully.
 
Anybody who goes out of their way to protest during a funeral or mourning event knows full well what they're doing.

It's a sort of political narcissism where they feel everybody should be respectful of all of their views, all of the time. If you're going to push that on society at wholly inappropriate times then don't be surprised if society pushes back.

Leave it a week then protest however you want.
 
I can see both viewpoints here.

Silently holding a placard shouldn't be an arrestable event.

Shouting abuse at a cortege at people who have lost their mother is different.

I do wonder if the protestors will refuse to take the public holiday entitlement?
 
Called PA 'a sick old man' apparently. Most on here would probably agree with that assessment given many of the threads we have had on the subject. Anyway, it's about our right to freedom of speech and expression not what was said, it's not negotiable IMO. Have we morphed into North Korea because the queen has died?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1569378948819058688
 
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Kip said:
Anybody who goes out of their way to protest during a funeral or mourning event knows full well what they're doing.

It's a sort of political narcissism where they feel everybody should be respectful of all of their views, all of the time. If you're going to push that on society at wholly inappropriate times then don't be surprised if society pushes back.

Leave it a week then protest however you want.
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Quite clearly a difference between someone not respecting your views and having the police watch you get assaulted, then drag you away and arrest you and let the people who assaulted you crack on though.
 
foggy said:
If only there was some sort of famous quote regarding free speech you personally depsise which might be relevant here. I can't quite think of it.
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To be honest, I deleted my post rather rapidly when I realised I couldn’t be arsed getting into an argument over it.
I will say that I stand by it, I’m all for the right to protest, I’ve done it myself many a time, but I wouldn’t protest during a funeral procession out of respect to the dead. That could just be me, I suppose.
Kick off in a couple of weeks by all means, if they can be arsed, but I doubt it.
 
It was wholly inappropriate to heckle Andrew yesterday (who I couldn’t care less about.) It was disrespectful to the late queen and all the people who had stood for hours waiting for the procession and wanted to savour the moment. It was attention seeking, utterly pathetic behaviour and if he didn’t want to pay the price, then he shouldn’t have planned HiS little ‘moment‘ in the limelight..
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Called PA 'a sick old man' apparently. Most on here would probably agree with that assessment given many of the threads we have had on the subject.
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Me included.
But there's a time and a place. And a funeral cortege (or any mournful gathering) isn't just inappropriate, it's highly disrespectful.
Irrespective of your views or your cause.
Protesting at (say) a royal visit is entirely different.

Moving on to the arrests, it's as much a matter of the protesters' personal safety as anything. The bloke shouting at PA was yanked backwards by the collar by members of the crowd. If the police hadn't reached him and got him out of there by quick compulsion rather than lengthier persuasion and he'd been assaulted, the police would have been slagged off for failing to protect him.

it's worth noting what happened to the protesters who were apprehended before they could disrupt Prince William & Kate Middleton's wedding.
They went through the courts, arguing that their detention had been disproportionate.
They lost at every stage, right up to the Supreme Court and finally the European Court of Human Rights.
The ECHR found that the arrests were “necessary to prevent the likelihood of an imminent breach of the peace, taking into account the crowd size, international interest and ‘severe’ threat level on the day of the royal wedding”.
www.independent.co.uk

Protesters 'who planned to throw maggot confetti over William and Kate' were arrested before royal wedding

European Court of Human Rights finds preventative detention was ‘necessary to prevent the likelihood of an imminent breach of the peace’
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
 
Someone mentioned North Korea, we have a long way to go before plunging to their level.

"In North Korea, the institutional control of thought begins with the consolidation of language, a policy designed to unify the private and public spheres of thought. In order for the realms of individual expression to adhere to a shared ideology, the Party’s Propaganda" (from "Dear Leader: North Korea's senior propagandist exposes shocking truths behind the regime" by Jang Jin-Sung)

A book worth reading.
 
Toastrack said:
Me included.
But there's a time and a place. And a funeral cortege (or any mournful gathering) isn't just inappropriate, it's highly disrespectful.
Irrespective of your views or your cause.
Protesting at (say) a royal visit is entirely different.

Moving on to the arrests, it's as much a matter of the protesters' personal safety as anything. The bloke shouting at PA was yanked backwards by the collar by members of the crowd. If the police hadn't reached him and got him out of there by quick compulsion rather than lengthier persuasion and he'd been assaulted, the police would have been slagged off for failing to protect him.

it's worth noting what happened to the protesters who were apprehended before they could disrupt Prince William & Kate Middleton's wedding.
They went through the courts, arguing that their detention had been disproportionate.
They lost at every stage, right up to the Supreme Court and finally the European Court of Human Rights.
The ECHR found that the arrests were “necessary to prevent the likelihood of an imminent breach of the peace, taking into account the crowd size, international interest and ‘severe’ threat level on the day of the royal wedding”.
www.independent.co.uk

Protesters 'who planned to throw maggot confetti over William and Kate' were arrested before royal wedding

European Court of Human Rights finds preventative detention was ‘necessary to prevent the likelihood of an imminent breach of the peace’
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
Click to expand...

Being disrespectful in public is not an offence as far as I am aware. The person in this case did not plan to throw maggots at the cortege, they reportedly simply called Prince Andrew 'a sick old man'. There is a big difference between the two cases, you are comparing apples with oranges.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
It seems that the police are now using the new policing act to arrest and charge people for protesting in public in relation to the death of the queen.
Click to expand...

Not complete correct: https://order-order.com/2022/09/13/lefts-right-to-protest-wrongs/

The widely reported arrest in Scotland came under Section 38 of the Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2010, a law introduced under an SNP government supported by the Greens and LibDems, opposed by Labour and the Tories.
 
In my opinion he should have been told to pipe down, removed from the area if he continued, and then just let go again.

Massive overeaction for spouting an opinion that most of us share and no threat made either 👎

Its a step too far if you ask me.
 
www.theguardian.com

Preston ban football fan for life for derogatory tweet about the royal family

A source told the Guardian that the tweet, since deleted, said the optimal way for the week to end would be for the royal family to all die on their way to the Queen’s funeral
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com


The PNE fan seems like quite a sick person if what is reported is true. However, I wonder if a ban such as this has any legal basis, I don't think he has done anything illegal.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Being disrespectful in public is not an offence as far as I am aware.
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Of course not. As I said, protesting at a royal visit would be entirely different.
ElBurroSinNombre said:
The person in this case did not plan to throw maggots at the cortege, they reportedly simply called Prince Andrew 'a sick old man'. There is a big difference between the two cases, you are comparing apples with oranges.
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Sorry, no.
These protesters are attending mournful events that the attendees find highly emotional and acting in ways that, in the circumstances, many will find provocative and likely to cause a breach of the peace.

Like I said, if one of the protesters had been assaulted by irate monarchists, people would be very critical of the police for failing to stop it.
Including you, I'd bet.
 
Toastrack said:
Of course not. As I said, protesting at a royal visit would be entirely different.

Sorry, no.
These protesters are attending mournful events that the attendees find highly emotional and acting in ways that, in the circumstances, many will find provocative and likely to cause a breach of the peace.

Like I said, if one of the protesters had been assaulted by irate monarchists, people would be very critical of the police. Including you, I'd bet.
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The person protesting was assaulted. The police watched as it happened and then arrested the victim of the assault.
 
Toastrack said:
Of course not. As I said, protesting at a royal visit would be entirely different.

Sorry, no.
These protesters are attending mournful events that the attendees find highly emotional and acting in ways that, in the circumstances, many will find provocative and likely to cause a breach of the peace.

Like I said, if one of the protesters had been assaulted by irate monarchists, people would be very critical of the police for failing to stop it.
Including you, I'd bet.
Click to expand...

So by your own description the protester was being disrespectful in public which isn't an offence.

The person who shouted was assaulted and then arrested, the police were present.
 
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Kip said:
Anybody who goes out of their way to protest during a funeral or mourning event knows full well what they're doing.

It's a sort of political narcissism where they feel everybody should be respectful of all of their views, all of the time. If you're going to push that on society at wholly inappropriate times then don't be surprised if society pushes back.

Leave it a week then protest however you want.
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Nonsense. It´s the principle which is important.
 
poolseasider said:
Oh goody hard left Republicans out in force again defending the indefensible.
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Are you seriously suggesting the right to free speech is an 'indefensible issue' or are you having difficulty separating things you don't like and things you should be assaulted and arrested for.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Can you explain why the arrests and threats of arrests are justified please?
And what is indefensible about peaceful protest?
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You could probably justify arrest on the basis of prevention of a breach of the peace I’d have thought.

Given the circumstances protest is likely to be inflammatory.

Probably best for the safety of those protesting in fairness.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
You could probably justify arrest on the basis of prevention of a breach of the peace I’d have thought.

Given the circumstances protest is likely to be inflammatory.

Probably best for the safety of those protesting in fairness.
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Possibly the arrest in Scotland
But the arrests elsewhere?
Holding up a piece of paper?
 
Scaramanga said:
Agree re the piece of paper, however how far could someone go regards whats written on the paper ?
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We have very strong libel and slander laws that go far beyond most other countries - it's what the Oystons used.
In fact there are string parallels here with the 'We are Thieves' case they bought against a fan. The big difference is that criminal law is being used against the republican protesters.
 
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Brazil said:
Nonsense. It´s the principle which is important.
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There's more than one principle. There's a time for taking a strict legal approach and a time for not acting like a **.

Everybody referenced above was deliberately pushing the boundaries for no other reason than wanting to cause distress. None of opinions expressed were original or needed to be heard at that particular moment in time.

If these same people say the same things again in a couple of weeks in a different environment then I doubt the police will look twice at them.

And if they do, I'll be on the side of the twats.
 
Kip said:
There's more than one principle. There's a time for taking a strict legal approach and a time for not acting like a **.

Everybody referenced above was deliberately pushing the boundaries for no other reason than wanting to cause distress. None of opinions expressed were original or needed to be heard at that particular moment in time.

If these same people say the same things again in a couple of weeks in a different environment then I doubt the police will look twice at them.

And if they do, I'll be on the side of the twats.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what you think about the opinions of the protestors, that is not the point. Acting like a ** is not an offence in criminal law. I don't think that they were trying to cause distress either, they are entitled to voice an opinion and they are doing just that in a peaceful manner. And in some cases they are being arrested for it.

If we stand for anything as a country we stand for freedom of speech and expression. This action by the police is completely contrary to that.
 
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