Furlough v doing a days work.

Jaffa_The_Hut

Jaffa_The_Hut

Well-known member
Called in last night for a planned bite to eat at the Tavern at the Mill (Thornton) tried to book at table over the phone the day before but couldn’t get through.
Anyway went on spec in the hope we could at least sit outside so when we rolled up we found the reason why, it’s been closed since last weekend due to staff shortages. 😮
Anyone after a job or know anyone who wants one then get applying, it’s part of the Holt brewery chain.
Same in every shop/super market you go in these days always advertising for either part time or full time staff.
Have we become lazy as a nation over Covid/furlough? Does no one want to work in retail/hospitality anymore? Granted ifs been badly effected over the last 12 months but I was one who was brought up with the understanding any job is better than no job. 🤔
 
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Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Called in last night for a planned bite to eat at the Tavern at the Mill (Thornton) tried to book at table over the phone the day before but couldn’t get through.
Anyway went on spec in the hope we could at least sit outside so when we rolled up we found the reason why, it’s been closed since last weekend due to staff shortages. 😮
Anyone after a job or know anyone who wants one then get applying, it’s part of the Holt brewery chain.
Same in every shop/super market you go in these days always advertising for either part time or full time staff.
Have we become lazy as a nation over Covid/furlough? Does no one want to work in retail/hospitality anymore? Granted ifs been badly effected over the last 12 months but I was one who was brought up with the understanding any job is better than no job. 🤔
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The furlough scheme is certainly very popular.
 
That’s those nasty tories for you, made it so it’s far more beneficial to stay in bed in the morning rather than do a days work🤪
no such problems under labour, where it was no work no money😁
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Called in last night for a planned bite to eat at the Tavern at the Mill (Thornton) tried to book at table over the phone the day before but couldn’t get through.
Anyway went on spec in the hope we could at least sit outside so when we rolled up we found the reason why, it’s been closed since last weekend due to staff shortages. 😮
Anyone after a job or know anyone who wants one then get applying, it’s part of the Holt brewery chain.
Same in every shop/super market you go in these days always advertising for either part time or full time staff.
Have we become lazy as a nation over Covid/furlough? Does no one want to work in retail/hospitality anymore? Granted ifs been badly effected over the last 12 months but I was one who was brought up with the understanding any job is better than no job. 🤔
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Jaffa. Give Tim Martin a call. He knows the cause and has a solution 👍
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Called in last night for a planned bite to eat at the Tavern at the Mill (Thornton) tried to book at table over the phone the day before but couldn’t get through.
Anyway went on spec in the hope we could at least sit outside so when we rolled up we found the reason why, it’s been closed since last weekend due to staff shortages. 😮
Anyone after a job or know anyone who wants one then get applying, it’s part of the Holt brewery chain.
Same in every shop/super market you go in these days always advertising for either part time or full time staff.
Have we become lazy as a nation over Covid/furlough? Does no one want to work in retail/hospitality anymore? Granted ifs been badly effected over the last 12 months but I was one who was brought up with the understanding any job is better than no job. 🤔
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Lots of hospitality workers (40% one stat I saw) were from the EU. Brexit aside, I would say that many probably went home during lockdown as they were unable to work, and probably haven't come back yet as things aren't fully open/aren't guaranteed to stay open.
 
poolseasider said:
Try getting a cab at night a lot of the drivers have gone and found other work you can be waiting up to 90 minutes for one!
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I’m a night driver, it’s great as a driver cos we’re none stop, but you’re right - customers are suffering.
It seems particularly to be hitting the bomber drivers.
Add in the amount of extra visitors we seem to be getting and it’s mental busy, only to get worse I suspect when the season proper kicks in.
 
poolseasider said:
Try getting a cab at night a lot of the drivers have gone and found other work you can be waiting up to 90 minutes for one!
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In defence of those who’ve left, it’s not because of furlough, it’s because, as you say, they’ve found other more stress free jobs without out the lairy customers and threat of violence.
Good luck to them.
 
Johnno said:
I’m a night driver, it’s great as a driver cos we’re none stop, but you’re right - customers are suffering.
It seems particularly to be hitting the bomber drivers.
Add in the amount of extra visitors we seem to be getting and it’s mental busy, only to get worse I suspect when the season proper kicks in.
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And until it gets sorted it will put local people from going out.
Elderly couple(he's blind) I know had to struggle with buses the other night going out for a meal and that was midweek!
 
poolseasider said:
And until it gets sorted it will put local people from going out.
Elderly couple(he's blind) I know had to struggle with buses the other night going out for a meal and that was midweek!
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I’m not sure there’s a quick fix, tbh.
It will also get worse once the Euros start.
Allow extra time for bookings, particularly if you need a bomber. Worst I’ve had is people waiting half an hour, but I’ve certainly heard of some horror stories as you’ve suggested.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Called in last night for a planned bite to eat at the Tavern at the Mill (Thornton) tried to book at table over the phone the day before but couldn’t get through.
Anyway went on spec in the hope we could at least sit outside so when we rolled up we found the reason why, it’s been closed since last weekend due to staff shortages. 😮
Anyone after a job or know anyone who wants one then get applying, it’s part of the Holt brewery chain.
Same in every shop/super market you go in these days always advertising for either part time or full time staff.
Have we become lazy as a nation over Covid/furlough? Does no one want to work in retail/hospitality anymore? Granted ifs been badly effected over the last 12 months but I was one who was brought up with the understanding any job is better than no job. 🤔
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We're not criticising the unemployed now are we, we can't be having that!
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Called in last night for a planned bite to eat at the Tavern at the Mill (Thornton) tried to book at table over the phone the day before but couldn’t get through.
Anyway went on spec in the hope we could at least sit outside so when we rolled up we found the reason why, it’s been closed since last weekend due to staff shortages. 😮
Anyone after a job or know anyone who wants one then get applying, it’s part of the Holt brewery chain.
Same in every shop/super market you go in these days always advertising for either part time or full time staff.
Have we become lazy as a nation over Covid/furlough? Does no one want to work in retail/hospitality anymore? Granted ifs been badly effected over the last 12 months but I was one who was brought up with the understanding any job is better than no job. 🤔
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if a job doesnt pay enough to live on then why take the job. There are companies where staff are on zero hour contracts, who are expected to turn up every day at cost to the employee who then could be sent home if there isnt enough work to do. Why bother with that type of job.

Someone close to me who has been working for the same hospitality company for over twenty years has seen his wages drop from being very decent (in his words) to only just above minimum wage despite taking three "promotions" in the last twelve years and works very unsocial hours. He is now one of just five people out of a staff of forty odd who have full time contracts all the other staff including several in supposed management positions are on 5 to 12 hour contracts, although everyone is employed on the "understanding" that they will get between 36 to 48 hours per week. The general manager uses the availability of staff as a reward / punishment mechanism. as long as staff are completely flexible about hours and what work they are proepared to do whether trained or not and jump at a moments notice then they get work, if not then they get at most their contracted hours.

That is the state of the service industry and most retail in the UK at the moment, but its driven by people wanting cheap as chips drinks and food and products in retail at the absolute minimum price. These companies are squeezing the the only resource that can be squeezed which is people, and something has to give, and things have to change. its probably not a bad thing that people are making the decision not to do really badly paid jobs with crappy conditions.
 
Whilst most of the impact of Brexit gets cushioned behind subtle price increases, reduced choice in product lines or extra bureaucracy for companies, it's probably no bad thing to see a few direct hits on the daily life of the common man otherwise people would keep pretending all was going swimmingly.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
if a job doesnt pay enough to live on then why take the job. There are companies where staff are on zero hour contracts, who are expected to turn up every day at cost to the employee who then could be sent home if there isnt enough work to do. Why bother with that type of job.

Someone close to me who has been working for the same hospitality company for over twenty years has seen his wages drop from being very decent (in his words) to only just above minimum wage despite taking three "promotions" in the last twelve years and works very unsocial hours. He is now one of just five people out of a staff of forty odd who have full time contracts all the other staff including several in supposed management positions are on 5 to 12 hour contracts, although everyone is employed on the "understanding" that they will get between 36 to 48 hours per week. The general manager uses the availability of staff as a reward / punishment mechanism. as long as staff are completely flexible about hours and what work they are proepared to do whether trained or not and jump at a moments notice then they get work, if not then they get at most their contracted hours.

That is the state of the service industry and most retail in the UK at the moment, but its driven by people wanting cheap as chips drinks and food and products in retail at the absolute minimum price. These companies are squeezing the the only resource that can be squeezed which is people, and something has to give, and things have to change. its probably not a bad thing that people are making the decision not to do really badly paid jobs with crappy conditions.
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Fair comment.

There’s a lot of self proclaimed advocates of capitalism who don’t seem to understand the basic concepts of supply and demand.

The supply of cheap labour from the EU has been turned off. Demand from consumers after months of lockdown is sky rocketing.

How do you deal with that?

Up wages. Up prices. What’s the bet the other monster in the cupboard (Inflation) becomes hot news in the not too distant future?
 
Costero Poderoso said:
if a job doesnt pay enough to live on then why take the job. There are companies where staff are on zero hour contracts, who are expected to turn up every day at cost to the employee who then could be sent home if there isnt enough work to do. Why bother with that type of job.

Someone close to me who has been working for the same hospitality company for over twenty years has seen his wages drop from being very decent (in his words) to only just above minimum wage despite taking three "promotions" in the last twelve years and works very unsocial hours. He is now one of just five people out of a staff of forty odd who have full time contracts all the other staff including several in supposed management positions are on 5 to 12 hour contracts, although everyone is employed on the "understanding" that they will get between 36 to 48 hours per week. The general manager uses the availability of staff as a reward / punishment mechanism. as long as staff are completely flexible about hours and what work they are proepared to do whether trained or not and jump at a moments notice then they get work, if not then they get at most their contracted hours.

That is the state of the service industry and most retail in the UK at the moment, but its driven by people wanting cheap as chips drinks and food and products in retail at the absolute minimum price. These companies are squeezing the the only resource that can be squeezed which is people, and something has to give, and things have to change. its probably not a bad thing that people are making the decision not to do really badly paid jobs with crappy conditions.
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Very true CP. Having worked in hospitality post early retirement most of the staff were on minimum wage and zero hour contracts and not knowing whether they would have sufficient hours to work and pay their basic bills. It’s probably one of the worst businesses to be in for earning money but very rewarding in terms of customer satisfaction (in most cases).
 
Costero Poderoso said:
if a job doesnt pay enough to live on then why take the job. There are companies where staff are on zero hour contracts, who are expected to turn up every day at cost to the employee who then could be sent home if there isnt enough work to do. Why bother with that type of job.

Someone close to me who has been working for the same hospitality company for over twenty years has seen his wages drop from being very decent (in his words) to only just above minimum wage despite taking three "promotions" in the last twelve years and works very unsocial hours. He is now one of just five people out of a staff of forty odd who have full time contracts all the other staff including several in supposed management positions are on 5 to 12 hour contracts, although everyone is employed on the "understanding" that they will get between 36 to 48 hours per week. The general manager uses the availability of staff as a reward / punishment mechanism. as long as staff are completely flexible about hours and what work they are proepared to do whether trained or not and jump at a moments notice then they get work, if not then they get at most their contracted hours.

That is the state of the service industry and most retail in the UK at the moment, but its driven by people wanting cheap as chips drinks and food and products in retail at the absolute minimum price. These companies are squeezing the the only resource that can be squeezed which is people, and something has to give, and things have to change. its probably not a bad thing that people are making the decision not to do really badly paid jobs with crappy conditions.
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TBF it doesn’t seem to effect Aldi or Lidl , who are doing extremely well and seen to treat their staff pretty well..... I think the Hospitality industry is certainly struggling - especially restaurants and pubs (mainly chains) due to the fact they have ramped pricing up for a mediocre offering. During the last year, people have spent money on their houses and gardens and seem to be spending time at home instead of going out. Let’s be honest,,it’s a right ball ache booking to go in bars and restaurants. Hopefully the 21st (if it happens) will see things shift to being more busy.
 
Highfield pub was dead on Sunday teatime yet found it very difficult to get served or a menu after 30 minutes so we upped and left they had hardly any staff
We preceded onto the cherry tree again pub was deathly quiet we got a table no problem but the guy taking us to the table told us they’d hardly any staff. Got served after around 30 minutes. Pint glass covered in lipstick and dirty cutlery 🤮
 
michellebutterflyhotel said:
Highfield pub was dead on Sunday teatime yet found it very difficult to get served or a menu after 30 minutes so we upped and left they had hardly any staff
We preceded onto the cherry tree again pub was deathly quiet we got a table no problem but the guy taking us to the table told us they’d hardly any staff. Got served after around 30 minutes. Pint glass covered in lipstick and dirty cutlery 🤮
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The problem with those type of food venue's you normally do some of the the work(going to the bar ordering food getting drinks taking them with you picking up cutlery etc) against a restaurant where your sat and waited but they charge a lot more.

My local boozer is making hardly anything as they have had to double the amount of staff to serve a 2.50 pint roll on the 21st. 👍
 
Have a holiday lodge in the Lakes so my second home these days is Bowness/Windermere usually visit about once/twice a week I must admit I’ve been gobsmacked at the amount of job vacancies in just about every pub/restaurant/shop window It’s the same in Ambleside as well all advertising for either full time or part time staff.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Called in last night for a planned bite to eat at the Tavern at the Mill (Thornton) tried to book at table over the phone the day before but couldn’t get through.
Anyway went on spec in the hope we could at least sit outside so when we rolled up we found the reason why, it’s been closed since last weekend due to staff shortages. 😮
Anyone after a job or know anyone who wants one then get applying, it’s part of the Holt brewery chain.
Same in every shop/super market you go in these days always advertising for either part time or full time staff.
Have we become lazy as a nation over Covid/furlough? Does no one want to work in retail/hospitality anymore? Granted ifs been badly effected over the last 12 months but I was one who was brought up with the understanding any job is better than no job. 🤔
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Are you offering your services?

What a terribly uninformed holier than thou load of bollocks.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Fair comment.

There’s a lot of self proclaimed advocates of capitalism who don’t seem to understand the basic concepts of supply and demand.

The supply of cheap labour from the EU has been turned off. Demand from consumers after months of lockdown is sky rocketing.

How do you deal with that?

Up wages. Up prices. What’s the bet the other monster in the cupboard (Inflation) becomes hot news in the not too distant future?
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Inflation has always been high since the eighties, its just that the main aspects of increasing living costs, housing, energy and to a great extent, food aren't included in inflation calculations, and even the most keynsian of economists dont regard them as inflationary even though they obviously are. Not long after I graduated (a long time ago) i read something by one of Thatchers close advisers who was making the comment about how inflation deemed low during her time in power (and a continual economic goal) was always false because in particular then, housing was never included, either renting or buying, and that, he predicted, would in the future be a fundamental driver of wage increases.

That never came about, wages have stalled whilst property even accounting for several bursting bubbles has grown on average by about 6% per annum. The banks have created so many little provisions and mechanisms within the mortgage and general debt market that they can still keep issuing them despite the systemic risks being massive.

Wages have to increase in order to provide balance to the housing / property market, because it is impossible that the gap between earnings and housing can be sustained indefinately.

Whilst wages for the majority have stalled (dropped in real terms) across the economy more and more people are moved onto minimum wage jobs, so there is a general drop in earnings across society, so the gap between earnings and housing in particular is actually growing at a rate of around 8% per annum.

Even if what the economists regard as inflation increased it might not a bad thing because it might be a factor in bringing down the cost of housing.

Im not sure what the answer is anymore, we are genuinely on new ground with what has happened ove the last year (even though this is something that has happened before) and the old answers about wages vs prices and supply and demand are, i dont think relevant anymore.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
Whilst most of the impact of Brexit gets cushioned behind subtle price increases, reduced choice in product lines or extra bureaucracy for companies, it's probably no bad thing to see a few direct hits on the daily life of the common man otherwise people would keep pretending all was going swimmingly.
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BHOK

WALOFB
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Called in last night for a planned bite to eat at the Tavern at the Mill (Thornton) tried to book at table over the phone the day before but couldn’t get through.
Anyway went on spec in the hope we could at least sit outside so when we rolled up we found the reason why, it’s been closed since last weekend due to staff shortages. 😮
Anyone after a job or know anyone who wants one then get applying, it’s part of the Holt brewery chain.
Same in every shop/super market you go in these days always advertising for either part time or full time staff.
Have we become lazy as a nation over Covid/furlough? Does no one want to work in retail/hospitality anymore? Granted ifs been badly effected over the last 12 months but I was one who was brought up with the understanding any job is better than no job. 🤔
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See Brexit for details.

Who is going to plug the gaps left by EU workers?
 
You don’t choose to be furloughed or when you return to work it’s down to your employer. Many employers are milking the system. They have staff on flexible furlough where they only work two or three days a week and it can vary from week to week. Employers can also claim for training days but the employee isn’t being trained but just doing their normal job.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Fair comment.

There’s a lot of self proclaimed advocates of capitalism who don’t seem to understand the basic concepts of supply and demand.

The supply of cheap labour from the EU has been turned off. Demand from consumers after months of lockdown is sky rocketing.

How do you deal with that?

Up wages. Up prices. What’s the bet the other monster in the cupboard (Inflation) becomes hot news in the not too distant future?
Click to expand...
Inflation is definitely going to raise its head. I work on construction, there is a chronic shortage of materials and prices are going up on a weekly basis. It's not good
 
We have the same issue up here in the Highlands. Many EU staff went home during Lockdown, and have not come back. Hotels are running on few staff, 12 hour shifts, and already starting to lose staff to burn out. Staycations have given there opportunity for second home and 6 month rentals to go week cottage lets, so accommodation is less than before. One local hotel chain took over a well known brand ( Derby Baths anyone?), and converted 3/4 of their staff accommodation to guest rooms. Last week they still had 17 rooms to clean on Friday from the previous weekend. Every shop in the village needs staff.

There are many people in Central Belt would love a job up here, but if there is nowhere to stay, are they expected to live in the woods in a tent? House prices are rocketing.

Easy to sit with your pension and home and pontificate about how all these layabouts should get a job. Maybe you should join the real world.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Been to the the tavern many times over the years as one of my locals and not one staff member was a foreigner as I recall so FA to do with Brexit, next........
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What about at your second home? From what I have seen in The Lakes the majority of people working in pubs and restaurants have been foreigners until they were democratically informed that their services were no longer required on this sceptered isle.

Also I am not sure that a pub in Thornton is the best litmus test for the nation.
 
Jimmy Jazz said:
What about at your second home? From what I have seen in The Lakes the majority of people working in pubs and restaurants have been foreigners until they were democratically informed that their services were no longer required on this sceptered isle.

Also I am not sure that a pub in Thornton is the best litmus test for the nation.
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I’am not saying it is I’am just telling you my personal experience what I know at that particular pub.

As for the Lake District I think anyone working in the area is on loser straight away as accommodation is not only difficult to find it’s also bloody expensive so any wages would disappear on rent/cost of living.
Unless of course you happen to live at home with mum/dad in the area.
 
The lake district relies massively on foreign seasonal work where living in is part of the culture. I used to work in hospitality and even in sunny Wigan the live in foreign seasonal worker was a thing. The lakes has a big problem in that the housing stock is sold off, either to retirees or as second homes. Essentially to people who aren't going to function as workers. Ergo foreign labour who are prepared to accept living in a single room on minimum wage or less...

As ever, bickering about Brexit obscures a larger issue - the impact that the declining jobs in agriculture (mechanisation) and the gentrification of rural areas by second home/retirement home owners has. That's kind of more important than being in or out of the EU as it has manifested itself over the last 50 years and sees places like the lakes (and other areas) hollowed out and locals forced away.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Called in last night for a planned bite to eat at the Tavern at the Mill (Thornton) tried to book at table over the phone the day before but couldn’t get through.
Anyway went on spec in the hope we could at least sit outside so when we rolled up we found the reason why, it’s been closed since last weekend due to staff shortages. 😮
Anyone after a job or know anyone who wants one then get applying, it’s part of the Holt brewery chain.
Same in every shop/super market you go in these days always advertising for either part time or full time staff.
Have we become lazy as a nation over Covid/furlough? Does no one want to work in retail/hospitality anymore? Granted ifs been badly effected over the last 12 months but I was one who was brought up with the understanding any job is better than no job. 🤔
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Due to Brexit and all the fuss that was made about us fishing our own waters maybe they have all abandoned shops and pubs to become trawler men!
 
The heading to this op doesn’t really make sense.

Furlough v doing a day’s work?

First it’s not the staff who get to decide whether they are on furlough. It’s the employer. So to suggest the employees have chosen to sit around at home rather than put a shift in is just wrong.

Secondly if they are on furlough then the employer just gets them back in. There’s really no excuse for having a shortage of staff in that situation. If they aren’t on furlough it’s probably because the employer chose to sack them at the start of the pandemic, rather than keep them on by using the government support. Exactly as Tim Martin did (remember his advice to employees to get a job in Tesco).
 
Mexboroseasider said:
The heading to this op doesn’t really make sense.

Furlough v doing a day’s work?

First it’s not the staff who get to decide whether they are on furlough. It’s the employer. So to suggest the employees have chosen to sit around at home rather than put a shift in is just wrong.

Secondly if they are on furlough then the employer just gets them back in. There’s really no excuse for having a shortage of staff in that situation. If they aren’t on furlough it’s probably because the employer chose to sack them at the start of the pandemic, rather than keep them on by using the government support. Exactly as Tim Martin did (remember his advice to employees to get a job in Tesco).
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I never suggested the employee gets to make them self furloughed 🤔 think you misunderstand what I’am saying.

What I’am saying is a lot of people during the last 10-12 months that are/were furloughed in the hospitality/retail industry were more than happy to stay at home rather than go look for another job.

Having just come back from the lake district I counted in Bowness alone on Sunday 8 job vacancies, 3 for pub staff, 2 in cafes, 2 in local art/craft shops and 1 in the local co-op, that is not the normal trust me and it’s the same in every other lake district town/village most pubs, cafes, shops, are all crying out for staff.

My point is where have they all the old staff gone? I don’t except people who simply say back to Europe that’s an easy cop out and simply not true of every position.
 
And my point is that those employers must presumably have fired the staff rather than putting them on furlough. Otherwise they’d just pull them back in and there’d be no staff shortages.

Loyalty is a two way street and if those employees have now found better paid jobs with better working hours/conditions, who can blame them for not flocking back to their previous positions.

And despite what you say, the absence of foreign workers is having an impact. Hence Tim Martin’s plea to the Home Office to allow EU workers back in.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
And my point is that those employers must presumably have fired the staff rather than putting them on furlough. Otherwise they’d just pull them back in and there’d be no staff shortages.

Loyalty is a two way street and if those employees have now found better paid jobs with better working hours/conditions, who can blame them for not flocking back to their previous positions.

And despite what you say, the absence of foreign workers is having an impact. Hence Tim Martin’s plea to the Home Office to allow EU workers back in.
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Tim Martin is only thinking about his profits, wanting cheap foreign labour back.
If he paid more in wages he wouldn’t have a problem as I keep saying loads of British workers out there sat at home but who aren’t going to work for peanuts.
 
The 'old' staff were furloughed...or made redundant....or left for another job.....or found a better paying job.

Most (if not all) businesses have been operating at 50%, 60% 70% capacity and don't need their full compliment of staff.
Pubs, restaurants etc have only been open a few months and only operate at 30% - 40%....as 21st June was D day...these businesses were looking for people to get back up to 80% - 90%......same with retail and leisure businesses.

Staff that were working in pubs for £8.91 an hour can command £10 - £12 in other areas.....why would you go back.
C19 organisations, Test & Trace and the NHS have picked up 450k new employees in the last 12 months...they don't pay £8.91

As for these jobs being available because there are no 'foreign' workers......do you honestly think they all come here to get minimum wage......NO

Last week Blackpool's Primark announced 30 part time jobs for 20 hours a week over 7 days.....They received over 200 applicants
That was £9.00 an hour.......your slightly out of touch with your casual observation...unless your looking for a P/T job yourself?
 
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