German/low country flooding

T

TSSeasider

Well-known member
Over 30 people dead in floods across Germany which is a staggeringly high number.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but building on flood plains needs to stop and we need to think about mitigation against much, much heavier rainfall coming down in shorter time frames as a start.

Merkel is facing quite the year as she bows out of politics.

www.bbc.co.uk

Germany floods: Dozens killed after record rain in Germany and Belgium

The two countries and the Netherlands experience widespread devastation after record rainfall.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
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1966_and_all_that said:
I'm increasingly of the view that the answer - certainly for the advanced economies - must be to put the environment at the centre of our economic policy. I honestly think the idea of perpetual growth has had its day and that we all need to consider more frugality in our lifestyles.
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And there was me thinking you were a left-wing socialist. Welcome to the Greens way of thinking.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I'm increasingly of the view that the answer - certainly for the advanced economies - must be to put the environment at the centre of our economic policy. I honestly think the idea of perpetual growth has had its day and that we all need to consider more frugality in our lifestyles.
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Let me know when you get the Chinese on board.
 
Curryman said:
And there was me thinking you were a left-wing socialist. Welcome to the Greens way of thinking.
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I am a left-wing socialist Curryman but thinking about this seriously, I'm worrying that if Labour don't get elected and if they don't take the environmental cause very seriously then we are all seriously f**ked.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Let me know when you get the Chinese on board.
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And had you been onboard the Titsnic Lost would you have said, 'tell me when the hole is plugged' before helping people in distress.
I'm sorry mate but this is huge and it is on the verge of taking me away from Labour to the Greens.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
And had you been onboard the Titsnic Lost would you have said, 'tell me when the hole is plugged' before helping people in distress.
I'm sorry mate but this is huge and it is on the verge of taking me away from Labour to the Greens.
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Hahaha another one gone. Labour truly are finished. On the negative here though that’s surely only gonna give the nasty Tories four more years if more people drop their support for the Red wall. On a more serious note to the OP, you do wonder how 30 people have lost their lives to a flash flood with the incredible technology the meteorologists have at their disposal. Very sad.
 
Scaramanga said:
Hahaha another one gone. Labour truly are finished. On the negative here though that’s surely only gonna give the nasty Tories four more years if more people drop their support for the Red wall. On a more serious note to the OP, you do wonder how 30 people have lost their lives to a flash flood with the incredible technology the meteorologists have at their disposal. Very sad.
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My words were, "on the verge" Scara. Get back in your kennel.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
And had you been onboard the Titsnic Lost would you have said, 'tell me when the hole is plugged' before helping people in distress.
I'm sorry mate but this is huge and it is on the verge of taking me away from Labour to the Greens.
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That analogy makes no sense whatsoever.

It is the huge elephant in the room, China puts out more CO2 annually than we have in our entire history, China's annual growth exceeds the UK's total emissions and that's before we even start to think about the likes of India and other developing countries.

Against that background anything we do towards net zero is wasted, in which case the obvious question is should the effort be directed elsewhere?
 
Lost Seasider said:
That analogy makes no sense whatsoever.

It is the huge elephant in the room, China puts out more CO2 annually than we have in our entire history, China's annual growth exceeds the UK's total emissions and that's before we even start to think about the likes of India and other developing countries.

Against that background anything we do towards net zero is wasted, in which case the obvious question is should the effort be directed elsewhere?
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Yes, yes, I know. I was teasing you. Of course China is the elephant in the room but I still say we must all do our bit. Whether it's middle-class Margo-types putting foil in a separate bag whilst jetting off to the Bahamas or right-on greens wearing woollen sandals. We must all do something.
 
Lost Seasider said:
That analogy makes no sense whatsoever.

It is the huge elephant in the room, China puts out more CO2 annually than we have in our entire history, China's annual growth exceeds the UK's total emissions and that's before we even start to think about the likes of India and other developing countries.

Against that background anything we do towards net zero is wasted, in which case the obvious question is should the effort be directed elsewhere?
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It's difficult. I'd say that whilst china may not be arsed now, someone needs to develop both the technology and to work out how an economy can function differently but effectively.

It's the curse of competition and global markets where we can't do what is 'right' because of our need to compete on that stage.

What is possible is framed by others. Change is surely something that has to be modelled somehow and somewhere.

None of that is very deep but yeah...
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Yes, yes, U know. I was teasing you. Of course China is the elephant on the room but I still say we must all do our bit. Whether it's middle-class Margo-types putting foul in a separate bag whilst jetting off to the Bahamas or right&on greens wearing woollen sandals. We must all do something.
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I tend to agree with you and I'm quite hostile to the greens. What I am increasingly aware of in my contact with the world is how little actual wild space there is and how almost every bit of landscape I pass bears the signs of humans.

There's stuff that needs doing that could make a difference. The way vast tracts of moorland are kept essentially as wastelands in order to facilitate grouse shoot is part of the flooding issue.

But changing that, simple as it would be to achieve is fighting against centuries of inherited power and wealth in many cases and traditions.
 
td53 said:
I tend to agree with you and I'm quite hostile to the greens. What I am increasingly aware of in my contact with the world is how little actual wild space there is and how almost every bit of landscape I pass bears the signs of humans.

There's stuff that needs doing that could make a difference. The way vast tracts of moorland are kept essentially as wastelands in order to facilitate grouse shoot is part of the flooding issue.

But changing that, simple as it would be to achieve is fighting against centuries of inherited power and wealth in many cases and traditions.
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You're batting against an open door here. Of course you're right but when will these petro-dollar bilionaires and aristo-Brits realise that their grandchildren are in for a really shit life and that it's all because of the environment now!?
 
Scaramanga said:
On a more serious note to the OP, you do wonder how 30 people have lost their lives to a flash flood with the incredible technology the meteorologists have at their disposal. Very sad.
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You cant' blame the meteorologists, they have the stats, density of cloud cover etc, and can forecast the amount of rainfall over a given time and area, but they do not know the drainage systems and what they can cope with likewise if rivers are silted up.
 
We have to stop building in green belt as covid n brexit has shown we will need the land to grow food on once it's gone we won't get it back . No run off into full rivers due to concrete either. We also need to ban tarmac n solid drives on houses we need natural soak away. All new houses should have to have solar panels as it's a fraction of the cost to put on when being built . These things arnt rocket science. No I'm not a Green just someone who sees we are not preparing for the future generations.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Yes, yes, I know. I was teasing you. Of course China is the elephant in the room but I still say we must all do our bit. Whether it's middle-class Margo-types putting foil in a separate bag whilst jetting off to the Bahamas or right-on greens wearing woollen sandals. We must all do something.
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I think the problem with us "doing our bit" is that most of our effort is being wasted on measures with a high cost but marginal benefit on a global scale because of a cultish belief that something must be done, and cutting our CO2 emissions is something therefore it must be done.

Personally I think we should be directing our effort at research into new technologies that can be deployed across the world (nuclear fusion and carbon capture being the main ones) and if that means pumping out a bit more CO2 then it's preferable to not having the new tech but delaying "climate change" by about 6 months or so.
 
Loftyboy said:
We have to stop building in green belt as covid n brexit has shown we will need the land to grow food on once it's gone we won't get it back . No run off into full rivers due to concrete either. We also need to ban tarmac n solid drives on houses we need natural soak away. All new houses should have to have solar panels as it's a fraction of the cost to put on when being built . These things arnt rocket science. No I'm not a Green just someone who sees we are not preparing for the future generations.
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Your starter for 10, what percentage of the UK's land mass is built on?

Six percent: https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/nr/land-cover-atlas-uk-1.744440
 
Lost Seasider said:
I think the problem with us "doing our bit" is that most of our effort is being wasted on measures with a high cost but marginal benefit on a global scale because of a cultish belief that something must be done, and cutting our CO2 emissions is something therefore it must be done.

Personally I think we should be directing our effort at research into new technologies that can be deployed across the world (nuclear fusion and carbon capture being the main ones) and if that means pumping out a bit more CO2 then it's preferable to not having the new tech but delaying "climate change" by about 6 months or so.
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Agreed. More agreed than agreed thing that's on a 2 for 1 offer at Tesco's. But....I would say, as well as....huh? I think we're on the point of violently agreeing with each other but let people do things domestically as well without pissing them off.
 
Whitstabletangerine said:
You cant' blame the meteorologists, they have the stats, density of cloud cover etc, and can forecast the amount of rainfall over a given time and area, but they do not know the drainage systems and what they can cope with likewise if rivers are silted up.
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Not blaming anyone, I just find it strange. Surely a warning was distributed to the local area. If so did people ignore it ?
 
If NASA have got it right about the so-called "moon wobble" we can expect more extreme events like this in the near future.

I agree about needing a strategy for China. Freezing them out of global summits and taking decisions about how to work together without them would be a start.
 
I mean, we've fished and hunted species to extinction, polluted rivers to a point of death, filled the seas with microplastics, turned the land to our own ends via forestry and agriculture, bred species that live deeply unnatural lives in order to feed ourselves, developed a global economy based on trading a load of shite we don't need that has a ridiculous carbon cost... but we've only literally concreted over 6% of the country so it's grand...

Probs the richest .01% will fuck off to space eventually and colonise another planet.

I would probably say the opening 30 mins of Wall-e is one of the best things ever made.

We're all utter cunts. Me included. There is no defence. We're a vermin as a species.
 
I don't believe as a race we are capable of altering things significantly to make any real change, FFS we can't even get along, greed & power struggles & that's without the constant wars. Too many people on our planet, using up it's recourses recklessly, I really do worry for future generations, as it probably won't impact as much in the next 20-30 years I may have left.
What we need is a good virus to bump off some of the surplus people 😬
Or something catastrophic or wonderful to pull all of society together. I doubt it's possible, as blame would be swapped & all the other sins would resurface. I could get really down about these thoughts, then when on some beautiful hillside with picturesque scenery away from it all, I do think, is all this real or just a figment of my imagination. I guess we will continue playing at it & sleepwalk into an irreversible decline.
Sorry if this is a lot doom & gloom & I really hope I'm wrong. Shame there is no God to sort this out.
On a brighter note we're in the Championship.
 
I've just read 80 dead with 1300 still missing.

It's barely comprehensible that it's Germany. Given their engineering heritage and focus on safety, not to have been prepared for it.

The scale of it is staggering.

I can't imagine Merkel remaining in Washington too much longer of the death toll continue to rise.

She's having an awful end to her tenure as Chancellor.
 
I think Covid was the first modern attempt to get rid of us by nature, their second effort might do the job.

We are a plague.
 
TSSeasider said:
I've just read 80 dead with 1300 still missing.

It's barely comprehensible that it's Germany. Given their engineering heritage and focus on safety, not to have been prepared for it.

The scale of it is staggering.

I can't imagine Merkel remaining in Washington too much longer of the death toll continue to rise.

She's having an awful end to her tenure as Chancellor.
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Not much you can do when flood water rises 2 metres in 15 minutes. Poor devil's, a lot have lost everything including parts of their families. Commiserations and Good luck to them all.
 
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