Good Sullay news for TD53. I think.

hills98

hills98

Well-known member
kuriousoranj said:
Not sure we've made a good decision here? Coming into his prime, wanted to stay and showing glimpses of real class.
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I’m a hoarder, so always worry if we release a player I like, but I guess all you can do is hope we make the right decisions for the club at any given time. It could be that we kept kaikai and due to signings/injury/inconsistency he rarely plays or doesn’t look any good for us, but then he could get picked up by another champ team and look awesome.

what’s different for me this time is, under the O’s I’d be assuming he was released to cut down the wage bill, whereas now my first though is optimism about the ambition of Sadler/critchley is such that EVEN a player with kaikai’s skill is looking to be upgraded.
 
Shiggy

Shiggy

Well-known member
Think only time will tell with whether we made the right decision with sullay. He was one of my favourite players but we have to remember him being prone to injury and inconsistency. I hope we don’t regret it. I see him moving to Charlton
 
GTFsTwinBrother

GTFsTwinBrother

Well-known member
I wish the lad all the luck in the world.

Personally, I think on his day he can be MOTM but it doesn't happen quite often enough. Regardless, every club in the world will sign players that are duffs and will let players go who turn out to be world beaters. It's how often that happens that's the difference. So I wont lose too much sleep about this as (so far) our recruitment policy seems to be as on form as I could wish for.
 
E

eatmygoal

Well-known member
firstly, well done sullay, i hope you represent SL with distinction.

i was sorry to see him go. taking up the option seemed like a free hit for us, if only to see if he sank or swam at a higher level. my hunch was that he would revel in the extra time and space that the championship affords ball-players and thinkers like him. and, of course, his decisive contribution in our promotion season was just that - decisive - he won us points. his flair, intelligence, technique and dynamism was/is there for all to see when played in his preferred position.

however, i trust Critch implicitly and i assume he has a top-level replacement lined up, if he hasn't, i'll be disappointed. i'm intrigued to see where sullay pitches up next and will watch his progress with interest. i wish him all the very best for the future and thank him for his impact here.
 
td53

td53

Well-known member
voyeur said:
And I'm delighted for Sullay. Apologies if posted elsewhere already, not seen anything.


www.bbc.co.uk

England-born Kaikai ready for Sierra Leone debut

Sullay Kaikai says he is ready for his Sierra Leone debut after a consistent two seasons with English League One side Blackpool.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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Thrilled for the lad.

@coppiceman only English football fans would consider skill, assists and goals as a 'luxury' inferior to 'huffing and puffing and stuff' 🤪
 
V

voyeur

Well-known member
td53 said:
Not enough huffing and puffing. 🤪

I really need to let this go don't I? I was doing well then Voy raked it all back up again.
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It needs to happen a bit more I think. Luxury players are usually players who do great things every now and then. Players who do great things regularly are great players. ;)

I understand your position though. I love to see players who can do the stuff the others can't too.
 
td53

td53

Well-known member
voyeur said:
It needs to happen a bit more I think. Luxury players are usually players who do great things every now and then. Players who do great things regularly are great players. ;)

I understand your position though. I love to see players who can do the stuff the others can't too.
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I think it's also the nature of the English game isn't it. We tend to see certain types of player as 'flakey' or 'flashy' and have always venerated physicality above other things.

I always like the players who don't quite fit the mould.
 
C

coppiceman

Well-known member
td53 said:
Not enough huffing and puffing. 🤪

I really need to let this go don't I? I was doing well then Voy raked it all back up again.
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No, not really. I understand why you like him, he can do some really good things. I think he drifts in and out of games a bit too much to be really top class.
 
E

eatmygoal

Well-known member
the kai kai question is an interesting one, and i've always been comfortable defending my position. i'm also very interested in listening to people and posters whom i respect and who acknowledge his qualities but who also think there is something missing from his game and who think he can't take it to the next level. it's exactly the kind of debate i've missed having down the pub.

what i do object to however, is the crass, lazy, ignorant, and, ahem, somewhat loaded comments i have read on this board regarding sullay over the past year in particular. more fool them.
 
rememberlesshannon

rememberlesshannon

Well-known member
He isn't a left sided midfield player, saw the best of him towards the end of the season, playing central behind the front two.
Whoever signs him and plays him right, will have a gem on their hands....in my opinion.
 
P

poolfc

Well-known member
Came as a surprise to me that even if they didn't take the option they didn't try to negotiate a 1+1 on new terms. A clean break from a player who HAS contributed goals and assists only makes sense if they're really planning to strengthen the forward options and also have a clear out of some others who were supposed to be the emperors new clothes and replace him last summer, but haven't.
 
V

voyeur

Well-known member
td53 said:
I think it's also the nature of the English game isn't it. We tend to see certain types of player as 'flakey' or 'flashy' and have always venerated physicality above other things.

I always like the players who don't quite fit the mould.
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Me too. But the likes of Hoddle played consistently well but still weren't trusted. The Hoddle thing was absurd.
 
E

eatmygoal

Well-known member
voyeur said:
Me too. But the likes of Hoddle played consistently well but still weren't trusted. The Hoddle thing was absurd.
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hoddle was under appreciated for sure, but, latterly, bobby robson didn't play him so much too. maybe he didn't fit his system as opposed to not knowing what to do with him.

remember too that when hoddle was manager he tried to accommodate le tissier. he didn't perservere.

to be fair to critch, maybe sullay doesn't fit his ideal system too as opposed to not appreciating his qualities.

what i think td53 is railing against (and correct me if i'm wrong by all means), is the value that some fans (on this board and elsewhere) and english football culture in general, places on the huffers and the puffers over the strokers and the schemers.

i rail against that too and as sad as i am to see sullay go, i'm happy to trust critch too. i suppose that's the big picture.
 
td53

td53

Well-known member
voyeur said:
Me too. But the likes of Hoddle played consistently well but still weren't trusted. The Hoddle thing was absurd.
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The same Hoddle that then preferred Batty to Le Tissier or Gascoigne...

Huff and puff above skill.
 
V

voyeur

Well-known member
eatmygoal said:
hoddle was under appreciated for sure, but, latterly, bobby robson didn't play him so much too. maybe he didn't fit his system as opposed to not knowing what to do with him.

remember too that when hoddle was manager he tried to accommodate le tissier. he didn't perservere.

to be fair to critch, maybe sullay doesn't fit his ideal system too as opposed to not appreciating his qualities.

what i think td53 is railing against (and correct me if i'm wrong by all means), is the value that some fans (on this board and elsewhere) and english football culture in general, places on the huffers and the puffers over the strokers and the schemers.

i rail against that too and as sad as i am to see sullay go, i'm happy to trust critch too. i suppose that's the big picture.
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I was appalled when Hoolahan didn't win our fans player of the season in the promotion season. I want to see those players more than anything. Platini once said that if Hoddle had been French they would have built their side around him for a decade. He was a top top player, one if the absolute elite, probably the best English player of my lifetime.
 
td53

td53

Well-known member
eatmygoal said:
hoddle was under appreciated for sure, but, latterly, bobby robson didn't play him so much too. maybe he didn't fit his system as opposed to not knowing what to do with him.

remember too that when hoddle was manager he tried to accommodate le tissier. he didn't perservere.

to be fair to critch, maybe sullay doesn't fit his ideal system too as opposed to not appreciating his qualities.

what i think td53 is railing against (and correct me if i'm wrong by all means), is the value that some fans (on this board and elsewhere) and english football culture in general, places on the huffers and the puffers over the strokers and the schemers.

i rail against that too and as sad as i am to see sullay go, i'm happy to trust critch too. i suppose that's the big picture.
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Ah, I hadn't read this when I posted above so indeed, you are spot on!
 
td53

td53

Well-known member
voyeur said:
I was appalled when Hoolahan didn't win our fans player of the season in the promotion season. I want to see those players more than anything. Platini once said that if Hoddle had been French they would have built their side around him for a decade. He was a top top player, one if the absolute elite, probably the best English player of my lifetime.
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But you've seen Gary Madine?

Jesting aside, there is a lot of truth in that. The game that always sticks out to me was when one of our ever vaunted golden generations of athletic all action midfielders came up against Pirlo (2010?) and he just strolled about at a jog and ran the game. He was incredible.

Hoddle had that quality and as you say,was never understood properly.
 
E

eatmygoal

Well-known member
voyeur said:
I was appalled when Hoolahan didn't win our fans player of the season in the promotion season. I want to see those players more than anything. Platini once said that if Hoddle had been French they would have built their side around him for a decade. He was a top top player, one if the absolute elite, probably the best English player of my lifetime.
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yep, other foreign nations just find a way to make it work with such players. historically england haven't - see lampard/gerrard/ssholes equation for a recent one.

i was thinking about wes recently. at the time i thought he was the best/most influential player in my lifetime and how on earth will we replace him. subsequently, we signed charlie adam.

as i said, i trust critch and that level of trust is a comfortable place to be (at least for me). here's to our next hero.
 
E

eatmygoal

Well-known member
td53 said:
But you've seen Gary Madine?

Jesting aside, there is a lot of truth in that. The game that always sticks out to me was when one of our ever vaunted golden generations of athletic all action midfielders came up against Pirlo (2010?) and he just strolled about at a jog and ran the game. He was incredible.

Hoddle had that quality and as you say,was never understood properly
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trappatoni preferred paul fucking green over wes for ireland when they couldn't buy a goal let alone score one.
 
P

poolfc

Well-known member
eatmygoal said:
yep, other foreign nations just find a way to make it work with such players. historically england haven't - see lampard/gerrard/ssholes equation for a recent one.

i was thinking about wes recently. at the time i thought he was the best/most influential player in my lifetime and how on earth will we replace him. subsequently, we signed charlie adam.

as i said, i trust critch and that level of trust is a comfortable place to be (at least for me). here's to our next hero.
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Think it's more go and make yourself a hero, but only after you've cycled through the passing routines within a set framework nowadays mostly. Don't shoot from there!

Get the feeling Kaikai would have been right up Holloway's street back in the day when he was still on his happy pills. Done well for us overall and hope he's not without a club for long.
 
P

poolfc

Well-known member
td53 said:
There's definitely something mechanical about top level football these days.
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I blame the FA's last root and branch investigation into why everyone else has got better footballers than England. And coming to the conclusion that if you keep the ball away from them for long enough then they can't hurt you. Until someone has a brainfart in possession and they do anyway.
 
Wizaard

Wizaard

Well-known member
voyeur said:
It needs to happen a bit more I think. Luxury players are usually players who do great things every now and then. Players who do great things regularly are great players. ;)

I understand your position though. I love to see players who can do the stuff the others can't too.
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Luxury players is a nonsense label. Match winner is the correct term.

No amount of huffing and puffing wins you stuff. The reason I never took to Colin Hendry was because he ditched Richie Wellens in favour of John Doolan and Rory Prendergast. Sweat over ability.
 
V

voyeur

Well-known member
Wizaard said:
Luxury players is a nonsense label. Match winner is the correct term.

No amount of huffing and puffing wins you stuff. The reason I never took to Colin Hendry was because he ditched Richie Wellens in favour of John Doolan and Rory Prendergast. Sweat over ability.
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Absolutely, but Wellens was pretty consistent. For me a luxury player is one who does the sublime, but only occasionally.
 
td53

td53

Well-known member
voyeur said:
Absolutely, but Wellens was pretty consistent. For me a luxury player is one who does the sublime, but only occasionally.
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Wellens was absolutely integral to McMahon's set up and played in the 6 role everytime he set foot on the pitch more or less. Sullay was played out of position and yet still delivered. Had Macca played Wellens week in week out on the right wing or something, I doubt we'd have seen the best of him.

Will Sullay go down as a great? No, of course he won't.

Did we play to his strengths? No not really.

Season 1 - looked pretty good albeit in aside that was very direct. Played in more of a decent position but style not really his game overall.

Season 2 - style more suitable but mostly played as an out and out left sided player, which he isn't. Despite this, still far and away the most productive player who wasn't a striker.
 
D

Danny Ocean

Well-known member
Maybe Sullay just didn't want to be at Blackpool, especially after the last year. Often it is better to let somebody move on rather
than let them be potentially disruptive. At one time Critchley was swapping between Bez and Sullay they were both
in competition for the left-wing position, then suddenly Bez disappeared from the team, and Sullay was never seen again when
Anderson got back fit again and Critchley had someone that could play left wing. It all seems very strange.
 
V

voyeur

Well-known member
td53 said:
Wellens was absolutely integral to McMahon's set up and played in the 6 role everytime he set foot on the pitch more or less. Sullay was played out of position and yet still delivered. Had Macca played Wellens week in week out on the right wing or something, I doubt we'd have seen the best of him.

Will Sullay go down as a great? No, of course he won't.

Did we play to his strengths? No not really.

Season 1 - looked pretty good albeit in aside that was very direct. Played in more of a decent position but style not really his game overall.

Season 2 - style more suitable but mostly played as an out and out left sided player, which he isn't. Despite this, still far and away the most productive player who wasn't a striker.
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I think Sullay has to take some responsibility. He's been at the club 2 years and not managed to nail down a spot in his favoured position or otherwise. I understand what you're saying, if love to see him achieve his potential, but I think there are issues preventing that which Critch feels he can't do enough about.
 
P

poolfc

Well-known member
voyeur said:
I think Sullay has to take some responsibility. He's been at the club 2 years and not managed to nail down a spot in his favoured position or otherwise. I understand what you're saying, if love to see him achieve his potential, but I think there are issues preventing that which Critch feels he can't do enough about.
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That can only be it. The sports bra he had to wear told them he's shite.

To me I can't see what more responsibility could he take though apart from seven goals and eight assists. In a team set up to deny him opportunities on the ball rather than promote it? If you go looking for it you're out of position and likely replaced in the function.

It was only when they shifted to a 4-2-2-2, almost in recognition that he could do more if he had more, that he scored and assisted like he did in the Gillingham home game. And then when that went stale they put him in behind Yates and he scored a goal of the season contender that played a big part in what we ended up with. What can you do.

Is what it is and hope his replacement is bang on it for the 90 every 90. At least this way they're putting a marker down that they're looking for improvement.
 
T

tangerine_neil

Well-known member
Play him in his preferred role and he could be a match winner. Unfortunately he was often played too deep and/or asked to track back. That’s not his game. Also, I’d expect him to shine in a league that plays higher quality passing football on better pitches.

Only reason for letting him go would be long term injury.
 
Chunkylad

Chunkylad

Well-known member
One thing about KaiKai is that on a DVD of highlight clips he will absolutely look a world beater. The amount of games where he has mazed his way from the number 8 position and caused mayhem, plus those long range strikes that happen a couple of times a season makes you go “wow”

However - too many games have passed him by, and Critch does seem to prefer a team of 7 out of 10s to fit his high press, high energy team. If one player misses the press it just doesn’t work.
Yates, Keshi, Embo and Dimi - also CJ all hunted like a pack with King K and K mopping up behind. Just the same as a Klopp attack
I’m guessing that’s why he opted out on KaiKai?
 
Z

zico_bamber

Well-known member
Chunkylad said:
One thing about KaiKai is that on a DVD of highlight clips he will absolutely look a world beater. The amount of games where he has mazed his way from the number 8 position and caused mayhem, plus those long range strikes that happen a couple of times a season makes you go “wow”

However - too many games have passed him by, and Critch does seem to prefer a team of 7 out of 10s to fit his high press, high energy team. If one player misses the press it just doesn’t work.
Yates, Keshi, Embo and Dimi - also CJ all hunted like a pack with King K and K mopping up behind. Just the same as a Klopp attack
I’m guessing that’s why he opted out on KaiKai?
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Yea off the ball he doesn’t work as hard as the rest. i wouldn’t say we played much of a high press, apart from Yates. imagine if we had 2 Jerry Yates!
 
Chunkylad

Chunkylad

Well-known member
zico_bamber said:
Yea off the ball he doesn’t work as hard as the rest. i wouldn’t say we played much of a high press, apart from Yates. imagine if we had 2 Jerry Yates!
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Would be frightening- although we may have just signed ‘little Jerry’ from Linfield looking at his highlight reels?
Yates must be genetically blessed to keep that energy level. He must eat through calories like a chubby at an all day buffet
 
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