Gove probed about Indian variant

JJpool

JJpool

Well-known member
Sorry if already been covered but only just seen on YOUTUBE.

To me this is one of the biggest mistakes.

I dont know why regardless of variant a proper quarantine system wasn't in place already from early in the pandemic.

But I think the figures show it should have been on the list.

Gove answers they looked at the figures, positivity rate and thats why Pakistan and Bangladesh was put on the list yet India wasn't and had higher numbers than Bangladesh so that made no sense.

But I think what Madley said about him and his wife watching the news is the most damming.

Everyone could see the disaster happening there and the fact people were still let back in in their thousands was just basic common sense to me.

 
JJpool said:
But I think the figures show it should have been on the list.

Gove answers they looked at the figures, positivity rate and thats why Pakistan and Bangladesh was put on the list yet India wasn't and had higher numbers than Bangladesh so that made no sense.
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This is what they show you on the news:
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This is what they don't show you on the news:
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This is also what they don't show you on the news:
1624217224841.png


India had more recorded cases than Pakistan and Bangladesh because they were doing far more testing than the other two countries, also relative to Europe the case numbers in India were actually quite small.

What Gove should really have said is that the decision was taken in line with the advice from the JBC.
 
JJpool said:
Sorry if already been covered but only just seen on YOUTUBE.

To me this is one of the biggest mistakes.

I dont know why regardless of variant a proper quarantine system wasn't in place already from early in the pandemic.

But I think the figures show it should have been on the list.

Gove answers they looked at the figures, positivity rate and thats why Pakistan and Bangladesh was put on the list yet India wasn't and had higher numbers than Bangladesh so that made no sense.

But I think what Madley said about him and his wife watching the news is the most damming.

Everyone could see the disaster happening there and the fact people were still let back in in their thousands was just basic common sense to me.

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I have a couple of issues with that clip.

1 Michael (smug fur hooker) Gove

2 Richard (I’ve got a massive ego and forgot to pay at Tesco’s) Madley

What an obnoxious duo🤮
 
Lost Seasider said:
This is what they show you on the news:
View attachment 6653

This is what they don't show you on the news:
View attachment 6655

This is also what they don't show you on the news:
View attachment 6656


India had more recorded cases than Pakistan and Bangladesh because they were doing far more testing than the other two countries, also relative to Europe the case numbers in India were actually quite small.

What Gove should really have said is that the decision was taken in line with the advice from the JBC.
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Even if you argue the figures this way or that way it was common sense looking at the chaos in March as Madley said.

Also there is absolutely no excuse for not having a proper effective quarantine system in place for all countries by this point.

You look at places like Australia, it may seem strong but with everyone properly quarantined on arrival no variant gets it as quickly as it does and we could them be getting our own house in order first.

This system was obvious and should have been done very early on the pandemic.
 
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JJpool said:
Even if you argue the figures this way or that way it was common sense looking at the chaos in March as Madley said.
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Shame it wasn't obvious to the Chief Medical Officers of England, Scotland, Wales and NI and the supporting scientists on the JBC, who ultimately are the real decision makers.


JJpool said:
Also there is absolutely no excuse for not having a proper effective quarantine system in place for all countries by this point.
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Well we do, so are you saying that you think that every country in the world should be on the red list, and all arrivals subject to hotel quarantine?


JJpool said:
You look at places like Australia, it may seem strong but with everyone properly quarantined on arrival no variant gets it as quickly as it does and we could them be getting out own house in order first.

This system was obvious and should have been done every early on the pandemic.
Click to expand...

Take a look at a map and the differences should be obvious.

Australia is about 500 km from its nearest neighbour, and the populated parts further still, it has a tiny population and a land mass about 50% greater than Europe, and is in part of the world that seems to have been largely ignored by covid anyway.

What this means in practice is that there is far less international or even internal travel to be controlled in the first place, goods arrive on container ships rather than on the back of lorries, the economy is far less intertwined with the rest of the world, thus it is much easier and cheaper for them to impose these controls than it is for the UK.

Plus there's the basic point that once the virus is established in a country border controls are ineffective anyway.
 
Here is some additional data.

When Pakistan and Bangladesh were put on the red list there was evidence that the South Africa variant was circulating in Bangladesh. There was no evidence of the South Africa or Brazil variant in Pakistan. There was evidence of the South Africa and Brazil variant in India as well as a then unidentified variant (subsequently known as the Indian or Delta variant).

Over 5 % of travellers to UK from India were testing positive on arrival between the 25th March and 7th April. Pakistan it was over 6 % and Bangladesh just over 3.5 %. It should be noted that the numbers of travellers from India was significantly greater then the numbers from Pakistan and Bangladesh.
 
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Lost Seasider said:
Shame it wasn't obvious to the Chief Medical Officers of England, Scotland, Wales and NI and the supporting scientists on the JBC, who ultimately are the real decision makers.




Well we do, so are you saying that you think that every country in the world should be on the red list, and all arrivals subject to hotel quarantine?




Take a look at a map and the differences should be obvious.

Australia is about 500 km from its nearest neighbour, and the populated parts further still, it has a tiny population and a land mass about 50% greater than Europe, and is in part of the world that seems to have been largely ignored by covid anyway.

What this means in practice is that there is far less international or even internal travel to be controlled in the first place, goods arrive on container ships rather than on the back of lorries, the economy is far less intertwined with the rest of the world, thus it is much easier and cheaper for them to impose these controls than it is for the UK.

Plus there's the basic point that once the virus is established in a country border controls are ineffective anyway.
Click to expand...
Proper effective quarantine system is in place. Really???

For example. I know people who have come over from Portugal and then been out and about the Fylde without any quarantine whatsoever. As long as it's left to self-police then people will ignore the rules.
 
How much trade do we have with Pakistan and Bangladesh? How much with India? Which is a global super power? Suspect this was stupidly about money and influence. Border control has generally been abysmal.
 
Mark_GT said:
How much trade do we have with Pakistan and Bangladesh? How much with India? Which is a global super power? Suspect this was stupidly about money and influence. Border control has generally been abysmal.
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JBC is not involved in trade and foreign policy.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Shame it wasn't obvious to the Chief Medical Officers of England, Scotland, Wales and NI and the supporting scientists on the JBC, who ultimately are the real decision makers.




Well we do, so are you saying that you think that every country in the world should be on the red list, and all arrivals subject to hotel quarantine?




Take a look at a map and the differences should be obvious.

Australia is about 500 km from its nearest neighbour, and the populated parts further still, it has a tiny population and a land mass about 50% greater than Europe, and is in part of the world that seems to have been largely ignored by covid anyway.

What this means in practice is that there is far less international or even internal travel to be controlled in the first place, goods arrive on container ships rather than on the back of lorries, the economy is far less intertwined with the rest of the world, thus it is much easier and cheaper for them to impose these controls than it is for the UK.

Plus there's the basic point that once the virus is established in a country border controls are ineffective anyway.
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Not sure why you defend them so much on this one, I voted for them and am not out to just hate on things, some has been good, some bad.

This was an obvious one for me.

The lack of a proper border policy throughout is the reason it got in so easily and common sense looking at what was happening there very early on, thousands just allowed to fly back and whatever they had in place clearly didn't work as it spread like wildfire.

Its kind of hard to deny that.
 
JJpool said:
Not sure why you defend them so much on this one, I voted for them and am not out to just hate on things, some has been good, some bad.

This was an obvious one for me.
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So a good starting point would be to define who "them" is, and see if that gives us any clues as to why they missed something so obvious.

In this case "them" refers to the membership of the Joint Biosecurity Center, which primarily means the 4 Chief Medical Officers (England, Scotland etc), supported by the Chief Scientific Advisers and a number of other eminient scientists.

At which point saying something is "obvious" is another way of saying "I think I know more about the subject than a large number of experts in the field", which is something that ought to give you pause for thought.


JJpool said:
The lack of a proper border policy throughout is the reason it got in so easily and common sense looking at what was happening there very early on, thousands just allowed to fly back and whatever they had in place clearly didn't work as it spread like wildfire.

Its kind of hard to deny that.
Click to expand...

I think you're vastly over-estimating how effective border controls can be for the UK, especially once the virus is already established in the country, even introducing hotel quarantine for the whole world was only likely to delay the spread of new variants, not stop it altogether.

Also you're not looking at the costs of this policy, how much is it going to cost to implement a global red list and what's the pay off in the return?
 
Wizaard said:
Proper effective quarantine system is in place. Really???

For example. I know people who have come over from Portugal and then been out and about the Fylde without any quarantine whatsoever. As long as it's left to self-police then people will ignore the rules.
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The people who came back from Portugal were tested and 0.5% of them were positive. Portugal wasn't a problem.
 
gjr69 said:
The people who came back from Portugal were tested and 0.5% of them were positive. Portugal wasn't a problem.
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200 were tested, not all of them. The point is, it was clear self isolation was the requirement but its not happened. Just because someone thinks they're clear doesn't mean they can ignore the regs.
 
Wizaard said:
200 were tested, not all of them. The point is, it was clear self isolation was the requirement but its not happened. Just because someone thinks they're clear doesn't mean they can ignore the regs.
Click to expand...
Wizaard said:
200 were tested, not all of them. The point is, it was clear self isolation was the requirement but its not happened. Just because someone thinks they're clear doesn't mean they can ignore the regs.
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If it is deemed necessary to self isolate it is almost impossible to police, so all foreign travel for leisure purposes should be banned.
There should be no loopholes for the wealthy, all or nothing. But that's not the way of the Conservative party.
 
Wizaard said:
Explain to me how it's not a political decision to approve 75,000 in Wembley and no quarantine or checks on UEFA officials. Has that been signed off by incorruptible officials?
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Nobody can explain anything at the moment Wiz as the government are 'flip flopping' all the time to suit certain agendas and threats. The current guidelines are progressively being ignored, 20k Jocks in London, UEFA delegates exempt from isolation, increased capacities at Wembley and other sporting events etc. The messages given to the population are mixed whether they want to call them 'test events' or not. The case of Gove getting a NHS alert after the champions league final was not too dissimilar to Cummings eye test drive!
 
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A lot of excellent arguments on here, but for anyone in a hurry I've surmised the points below;

Gove is a smarmy cnut
Johnson is an inept cnut
Hancock is a lying cnut
Starmer is a pointless cnut
Covid is the biggest cnut out of the lot of them
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
A lot of excellent arguments on here, but for anyone in a hurry I've surmised the points below;

Gove is a smarmy cnut
Johnson is an inept cnut
Hancock is a lying cnut
Starmer is a pointless cnut
Covid is the biggest cnut out of the lot of them
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Brilliant Lytham 🤣🤣🤣 but you forgot Williamson as a complete and incompetent useless cnut
 
Thread with plenty of (pre-politicised/bastardised science) primary public health sources.

threadreaderapp.com

Thread by @SwedenTeam on Thread Reader App

@SwedenTeam: 1/ Sweden’s no lockdown covid response is often called an “experiment” This is utterly false, and it’s easy to prove. In this thread I’ll go through pre-2020 pandemic plans from the WHO, CDC, Johns Hopk...…
threadreaderapp.com threadreaderapp.com
 
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