How do we Clear the Air & Move Forward?

[Kyle Seasider]

The club isn't 'totally disconnected' from the fans. That's your perception, which is blinkered by your emotions. This behaviour is being replicated by plenty of others too, so please don't take my comment there as a specific dig at you. Example - you see the 'Seasiders Together' plan as a way of getting pro-Sadler supporters on the panel, whereas I saw nothing like that. It was an honest attempt from the club to meet what they expect to be regulatory requirements going forward. For the record, I also thought it was daft idea and you could spot a mile off what the moans and groans (and who made them) were going to come from.

Things could be better, but the club/fan relationship is suffering because on the pitch, things haven't been as good as they were previously. That would always lead to supporter apathy in any club and - as Biffo rightly observes - our supporters in particular have become 'once bitten, twice shy' over our relationship with the club.

The idea that the club doesn't have a clear strategy is also nonsense. It has a strategy around football performance and infrastructure investments, but the football side has not succeeded this season - nor has it abjectly failed to the point of relegation - and the infrastructure investments are not moving forward as quickly as people want them to. There could be very valid reasons for that. Such as the increased cost of financing the projects in a world where all costs associated with construction projects are a lot higher now than when the plans were first made.

As for the second paragraph, the last thing I want from the owner of my football club is him telling the head coach - that he employed - how he needs to set up his team and how they should play. If that was the case, then I'll be the first telling the owner he needs to fuck off and handle elements his skills and experience are relevant too.

You are probably right that there is alot of emotion in what I say because I care about the club so much. That probably is blinding me to things, but when I'm seeing so many people so unhappy with the clubs communication and strategy regarding fan interaction then I know I'm certainly not on my own. When I'm seeing the next generation of fans start to turn away because even they're fed up with the club right now, then it hurts. The comment about Sadler telling Critchley to change formation was more tongue in cheek as I don't want that either, just fed up with watching this shit on the pitch.

 

[hertfordseasider]

I get what you're saying Daz and I agree with a lot of it and it does need both sides to come together. The worrying thing for me is how the fuck did we get to this situation just 4 years into Sadler buying the club, that cannot be right.

We, the supporters have to take some responsibility, but I don't think we have been as bad as you say, I mean we sold nigh on 10,000 season tickets after one of the worst seasons for a while and a relegation, that is definitely supporting the club. here has been a lot of moaning, the players get picked out and I don't agree with that but there is, or was, a very small minority having a moan about Sadler and as you know I have been one of the most vociferous, not about what he has done, is doing off the pitch but the shambles of running the actual football side of it, which to me has been excusable up to a point as it was completely alien to him, but he has made a complete fuck up of it to be honest and at the end of the day, what we as supporters want is to see a manager who has us playing good attacking football, a good player recruitment policy, which I'm not sure we have nailed yet and most importantly, Sadler needs to stop being so paranoid and weird and communicate properly because the way he is dealing with the supporters is the most alienating thing of all.

If this doesn't get addressed in the next few months then we will find it difficult to repair and for that to happen after what we went through previously is absolutely flabbergasting!

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

The club isn't 'totally disconnected' from the fans. That's your perception, which is blinkered by your emotions. This behaviour is being replicated by plenty of others too, so please don't take my comment there as a specific dig at you. Example - you see the 'Seasiders Together' plan as a way of getting pro-Sadler supporters on the panel, whereas I saw nothing like that. It was an honest attempt from the club to meet what they expect to be regulatory requirements going forward. For the record, I also thought it was daft idea and you could spot a mile off what the moans and groans (and who made them) were going to come from.

Things could be better, but the club/fan relationship is suffering because on the pitch, things haven't been as good as they were previously. That would always lead to supporter apathy in any club and - as Biffo rightly observes - our supporters in particular have become 'once bitten, twice shy' over our relationship with the club.

The idea that the club doesn't have a clear strategy is also nonsense. It has a strategy around football performance and infrastructure investments, but the football side has not succeeded this season - nor has it abjectly failed to the point of relegation - and the infrastructure investments are not moving forward as quickly as people want them to. There could be very valid reasons for that. Such as the increased cost of financing the projects in a world where all costs associated with construction projects are a lot higher now than when the plans were first made.

As for the second paragraph, the last thing I want from the owner of my football club is him telling the head coach - that he employed - how he needs to set up his team and how they should play. If that was the case, then I'll be the first telling the owner he needs to fuck off and handle elements his skills and experience are relevant too.

I would pick up on a couple of points here mate, because I'm not entirely in agreement with you here.

Whilst I don't think the club are 'totally disconnected' from the fans, there is almost certainly a disconnect and I really don't think that the Club really get it. There's almost certainly a resistance from the Club to engage wholeheartedly in open and frank communication with the supporters and they have adopted a very guarded approach.

In addition I'd also argue that there isn't a clear strategy.... if there is one, then what is it? , because I'll be damned if it has been coherently communicated to the fans. There may be some vague talk of player development and sustainability, but I've certainly not seen anything that would constitute a vision for our future that we can collectively get behind... If that were the case, then I think the Managers job would be much easier, I also think fans might find it easier to mentally process some of the more challenging times... That strategy also needs to be backed up with proper open and honest communication...

A great example in terms of communication is the whole three at the back thing....

Radio Lancs have just raised the question in an interview, but it's an obvious point of contention... So Why not answer these questions head on... We have a Media Platform, yet it gets used for videos of players stacking fuck-ing doughnuts or talking shit on a sofa, instead of getting down to the crux of what fans actually want to hear.

If fans could see that sat behind the whole 3 at the back is a longer term vision of a better style of football.... If they could maybe understand why there might be short term inconsistencies, if they could understand that maybe we might still need to recruit players to fit and lose players that don't and have more insight into where the vision is actually trying to take us, then they might be more resilient to the ups and downs etc...

The same can be said about the Training Ground or the East Stand.... Yes, fans can be needy, but to fail to grasp the extent of interest and requirement for proper and regular informed updates is to fail to understand how football fans tick.... Jeez, I can remember people literally sat on Back Henry Street with camping chairs and sandwiches, simply sat watching the development of the new stand. These developments are a matter of huge significance and great pride for our supporters, the ground capacity matters, knowing that we are making progress matters.... And yet the Club and seemingly Simon as a Fan just can't seem to grasp it at all... In fact by contrast, they give the appearance at least that the fans interest or neediness for updates and information, is somewhat of a nuisance. This for me is a massive disconnect....

Now of course, all of these 'perceptions' of mine and of others may be completely wrong, but they are perceptions that are borne out of the way in which the Club is or isn't communicating at this time. If those perceptions are wrong, then the fact that the Club are failing to get there message through is an issue that needs addressing.

 

[Phil_bfc deux]

I would pick up on a couple of points here mate, because I'm not entirely in agreement with you here.

Whilst I don't think the club are 'totally disconnected' from the fans, there is almost certainly a disconnect and I really don't think that the Club really get it. There's almost certainly a resistance from the Club to engage wholeheartedly in open and frank communication with the supporters and they have adopted a very guarded approach.

In addition I'd also argue that there isn't a clear strategy.... if there is one, then what is it? , because I'll be damned if it has been coherently communicated to the fans. There may be some vague talk of player development and sustainability, but I've certainly not seen anything that would constitute a vision for our future that we can collectively get behind... If that were the case, then I think the Managers job would be much easier, I also think fans might find it easier to mentally process some of the more challenging times... That strategy also needs to be backed up with proper open and honest communication...

A great example in terms of communication is the whole three at the back thing....

Radio Lancs have just raised the question in an interview, but it's an obvious point of contention... So Why not answer these questions head on... We have a Media Platform, yet it gets used for videos of players stacking fuck-ing doughnuts or talking shit on a sofa, instead of getting down to the crux of what fans actually want to hear.

If fans could see that sat behind the whole 3 at the back is a longer term vision of a better style of football.... If they could maybe understand why there might be short term inconsistencies, if they could understand that maybe we might still need to recruit players to fit and lose players that don't and have more insight into where the vision is actually trying to take us, then they might be more resilient to the ups and downs etc...

The same can be said about the Training Ground or the East Stand.... Yes, fans can be needy, but to fail to grasp the extent of interest and requirement for proper and regular informed updates is to fail to understand how football fans tick.... Jeez, I can remember people literally sat on Back Henry Street with camping chairs and sandwiches, simply sat watching the development of the new stand. These developments are a matter of huge significance and great pride for our supporters, the ground capacity matters, knowing that we are making progress matters.... And yet the Club and seemingly Simon as a Fan just can't seem to grasp it at all... In fact by contrast, they give the appearance at least that the fans interest or neediness for updates and information, is somewhat of a nuisance. This for me is a massive disconnect....

Now of course, all of these 'perceptions' of mine and of others may be completely wrong, but they are perceptions that are borne out of the way in which the Club is or isn't communicating at this time. If those perceptions are wrong, then the fact that the Club are failing to get there message through is an issue that needs addressing.

"And yet the Club and seemingly Simon as a Fan just can't seem to grasp it at all... In fact by contrast, they give the appearance at least that the fans interest or neediness for updates and information, is somewhat of a nuisance. This for me is a massive disconnect."

Yep bang on that

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

I get what you're saying Daz and I agree with a lot of it and it does need both sides to come together. The worrying thing for me is how the fuck did we get to this situation just 4 years into Sadler buying the club, that cannot be right.

We, the supporters have to take some responsibility, but I don't think we have been as bad as you say, I mean we sold nigh on 10,000 season tickets after one of the worst seasons for a while and a relegation, that is definitely supporting the club. here has been a lot of moaning, the players get picked out and I don't agree with that but there is, or was, a very small minority having a moan about Sadler and as you know I have been one of the most vociferous, not about what he has done, is doing off the pitch but the shambles of running the actual football side of it, which to me has been excusable up to a point as it was completely alien to him, but he has made a complete fuck up of it to be honest and at the end of the day, what we as supporters want is to see a manager who has us playing good attacking football, a good player recruitment policy, which I'm not sure we have nailed yet and most importantly, Sadler needs to stop being so paranoid and weird and communicate properly because the way he is dealing with the supporters is the most alienating thing of all.

If this doesn't get addressed in the next few months then we will find it difficult to repair and for that to happen after what we went through previously is absolutely flabbergasting!

When you say "but I don't think we have been as bad as you say"... What do you perceive that I have said?

Because I'm not sure I have really suggested at all that the supporters have been particularly bad or that they have failed to support the Club at all. I think that our supporters have been absolutely fantastic in terms of the number of STH's in very challenging times and also in terms of the vocal support.

That said, I also think that there have been a number of issues over the last few seasons that have also made life very difficult for the owner and which have almost certainly contributed to the erosion of goodwill and the fan / club relationship. I think that some supporters have been too busy trying to score points and out-do each other, instead of focusing their collective efforts on doing what is right for the Club. I think that people have selfishly pursued their own personal agendas and been too stubborn to acknowledge and address things that need to be addressed in modern football.

 

[I bleed Tangerine]

I would pick up on a couple of points here mate, because I'm not entirely in agreement with you here.

Whilst I don't think the club are 'totally disconnected' from the fans, there is almost certainly a disconnect and I really don't think that the Club really get it. There's almost certainly a resistance from the Club to engage wholeheartedly in open and frank communication with the supporters and they have adopted a very guarded approach.

In addition I'd also argue that there isn't a clear strategy.... if there is one, then what is it? , because I'll be damned if it has been coherently communicated to the fans. There may be some vague talk of player development and sustainability, but I've certainly not seen anything that would constitute a vision for our future that we can collectively get behind... If that were the case, then I think the Managers job would be much easier, I also think fans might find it easier to mentally process some of the more challenging times... That strategy also needs to be backed up with proper open and honest communication...

A great example in terms of communication is the whole three at the back thing....

Radio Lancs have just raised the question in an interview, but it's an obvious point of contention... So Why not answer these questions head on... We have a Media Platform, yet it gets used for videos of players stacking fuck-ing doughnuts or talking shit on a sofa, instead of getting down to the crux of what fans actually want to hear.

If fans could see that sat behind the whole 3 at the back is a longer term vision of a better style of football.... If they could maybe understand why there might be short term inconsistencies, if they could understand that maybe we might still need to recruit players to fit and lose players that don't and have more insight into where the vision is actually trying to take us, then they might be more resilient to the ups and downs etc...

The same can be said about the Training Ground or the East Stand.... Yes, fans can be needy, but to fail to grasp the extent of interest and requirement for proper and regular informed updates is to fail to understand how football fans tick.... Jeez, I can remember people literally sat on Back Henry Street with camping chairs and sandwiches, simply sat watching the development of the new stand. These developments are a matter of huge significance and great pride for our supporters, the ground capacity matters, knowing that we are making progress matters.... And yet the Club and seemingly Simon as a Fan just can't seem to grasp it at all... In fact by contrast, they give the appearance at least that the fans interest or neediness for updates and information, is somewhat of a nuisance. This for me is a massive disconnect....

Now of course, all of these 'perceptions' of mine and of others may be completely wrong, but they are perceptions that are borne out of the way in which the Club is or isn't communicating at this time. If those perceptions are wrong, then the fact that the Club are failing to get there message through is an issue that needs addressing.

When you have alot of the fan base thinking the same, as you can see on here and especially on Twitter, then I'm sorry but the disconnect is real and needs addressing. Like you said, it feels like the fans are a nuisance to the Club, with the multiple tellings off we get from Sadler and the blasé way the club appear to treat any fan interaction. Someone said on twitter yesterday that we seem to have been sucked dry of any optimism, both the club and fans, and I have to agree with that.

 

[Insider]

There are a few posters on here that have a lot to say (and I don't exclude myself) but we/they don't represent anyone other than themselves. Of course some posts get plenty of likes (and we preen ourselves) and there are some very good, well thought out ideas.
We believe that Simon reads this messageboard but do we ever see any evidence that he takes on board any of these ideas/initiatives?
Personally I'm not someone who wants to be active in a recognised supporters group but I'm not saying I wouldn't mind a chat over a drink with Simon Sadler or Critch.
I'll admit I'm a bit of a nosey bugger and like to know what is going on so the fact that BFC is currently so secretive doen't help.

 

[alginate]

Ultimately the mood will always be dictated by results and style of play, but there’s a few things that could be changed off the pitch:

• club needs to stop banning fans on Twitter. Whether it’s justified or not, it’s not a good look and rarely ends well.
• Sadler needs to stop reading AVFTT and social media
• All Structured Dialogue Meetings to be live streamed
• Sadler, Winter & Downes to regularly agree to interviews with BBC Radio Lancashire and The Gazette. At least do the odd sit down on Tangerine TV (otherwise what’s the point in having it?)
• Improve the work environment, there’s a reason why staff turnover is so high
• Probably also needs to be a realisation Sadler doesn’t want proper fan representation at board level. Anything else will just be a token gesture. We all know by now he can’t deal with proper scrutiny or criticism and wants total control.
• Get the next managerial appointment right, otherwise there will be pressure on Sadler given past failings. Take into account fan views (e.g. Appleton & Critchley)

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

When you have alot of the fan base thinking the same, as you can see on here and especially on Twitter, then I'm sorry but the disconnect is real and needs addressing. Like you said, it feels like the fans are a nuisance to the Club, with the multiple tellings off we get from Sadler and the blasé way the club appear to treat any fan interaction. Someone said on twitter yesterday that we seem to have been sucked dry of any optimism, both the club and fans, and I have to agree with that.

We are sucked dry of optimism, because nobody (at least none of the fans) have a clear idea of where we are supposed to be heading towards...

The ambition seems to extend to being a half decent Championship Club and maybe flirting with the Play Offs if everything goes in our favour. And I'm afraid that is not good enough... How are we going to get from here to the EPL is the question that needs to be answered... Because the EPL should be our objective.

 

[hertfordseasider]

When you say "but I don't think we have been as bad as you say"... What do you perceive that I have said?

Because I'm not sure I have really suggested at all that the supporters have been particularly bad or that they have failed to support the Club at all. I think that our supporters have been absolutely fantastic in terms of the number of STH's in very challenging times and also in terms of the vocal support.

That said, I also think that there have been a number of issues over the last few seasons that have also made life very difficult for the owner and which have almost certainly contributed to the erosion of goodwill and the fan / club relationship. I think that some supporters have been too busy trying to score points and out-do each other, instead of focusing their collective efforts on doing what is right for the Club. I think that people have selfishly pursued their own personal agendas and been too stubborn to acknowledge and address things that need to be addressed in modern football.

Are you talking about supporters groups here or social media I'm a bit confused? I'm not disagreeing with you I just want to understand.

 

[Phil_bfc deux]

There are a few posters on here that have a lot to say (and I don't exclude myself) but we/they don't represent anyone other than themselves. Of course some posts get plenty of likes (and we preen ourselves) and there are some very good, well thought out ideas.
We believe that Simon reads this messageboard but do we ever see any evidence that he takes on board any of these ideas/initiatives?
Personally I'm not someone who wants to be active in a recognised supporters group but I'm not saying I wouldn't mind a chat over a drink with Simon Sadler or Critch.
I'll admit I'm a bit of a nosey bugger and like to know what is going on so the fact that BFC is currently so secretive doen't help.

Yeah I'm the same not really bothered about being part of any fans group

Wouldn't mind a beer with Simon and a game of Pool, the offer is there, you never know he might learn something

 

[Markobfc]

THIS^^ Kind of attitude for me is precisely why we are fucked at the moment....

Just fuck-ing stop it FFS!!

Demanding that we sack the bloody manager....

People like you, have never given the manager a chance from day one... You've been on his back at every single opportunity... people like YOU are dragging the club down and making it harder for us to achieve success... It needs to stop!!


What we need to do is place our trust in the people who are running the Club to make the right decision, regarding the manager as and when it is the right time to make that decision. It isn't the right decision to sack the manager on the back of another disappointing away performance.... We have seen enough from Critchley to suggest that he's a capable manager and he also has potential to improve.

What we do need is some communication from the Club and Manager so that we (as a fanbase) can gain some understanding and insight into what exactly is going on at the Club... What we are trying to achieve....Why we are persisting with the current style of play.....What we expect that to achieve in the longer term..... Why that might mean some short term pain..... What we are trying to do in order to improve things...... What our recruitment plans are... etc... etc..

It may be the case at some point that Critchley needs to go.... It's quite probably the case that he should have never been re-appointed in the first place, but the fact of the matter is that this way of handling it from supporters really doesn't help... A Manager forced to operate under this kind of constant cloud, with Idiots abusing him at games and fans continually calling for him to be sacked after every loss is never going to be able to perform to his potential...

The manager is the core of the problem no matter how vociferous you are about defending him.. Until he changes tac and quickly it is going to get worse. The football is ** dross and you are expecting people to get behind him even though he has no thoughts about changing. Instead of going off on one, how about you telling us all the good things that Critchley has done this second tenure because I can list a raft of shit that he has got wrong on multiple occasions.

 

[hertfordseasider]

Yeah I'm the same not really bothered about being part of any fans group

Wouldn't mind a beer with Simon and a game of Pool, the offer is there, you never know he might learn something

I've hear your shit at Pool and he's a bit of a hustler!!

 

[hertfordseasider]

It's a weird time at the moment, off this board it all seems to be going tits up on social media with the supporters and the club imploding yet on here, the place a lot think is a crazy place of over opinionated people there has been a real calmness and I have to say some brilliantly positive and well thought out posts which is a credit to us on here I think.

If Simon is reading this board it is probably the best time he does because it has been a really fair assessment of our concerns, no abuse, just considered opinion and looking at ourselves in the mirror too. We are not against SS, in fact we want him to succeed, I also want him to be enjoying owning our club, his club because when he bought it I bet that is what he thought was going to happen.

I think things have broken down for all the reasons that have been debated over the last 2 days and it now needs to come to a head and either it gets sorted out and we can all get back to enjoying being involved in the club again or he battens down the hatches and digs his heels in and fails to take this opportunity to do something positive about it and we, the supporters need to be patient and listen to what he has to say and react to that. Battling against each other will only lead to disaster.

I'm going to use an Oyston comparison here. just to prove my point above. I'm sure many of you will remember the famously long Dark Lord post on the old AVFTT where it was started by Karl travelling on a train )Blimey Phil!!) it started off as banter, insults etc., but it ended up 100's of posts strong with so many intelligent supporters of the club giving Karl the most amazing advice, in fact I was, and I think. some others were going to be summoned to go and see Karl and discuss some of the great ideas raised.

Of course, in the end he didn't do that and completely ignored all the comments and they self destructed. Let's nor self destruct Simon,let's move onward and upwards together because divided we fall.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Are you talking about supporters groups here or social media I'm a bit confused? I'm not disagreeing with you I just want to understand.

I'm talking about a whole range of things...

Fan's Groups and the way they interact with Social Media
Individual Fans on Social Media
Fan's Behaviour in the Ground
Fan's Behaviour outside the Ground
Fan's attitude towards the Manager(s)
Fan's interactions with the Club / Owner

The manager is the core of the problem no matter how vociferous you are about defending him.. Until he changes tac and quickly it is going to get worse. The football is ** dross and you are expecting people to get behind him even though he has no thoughts about changing. Instead of going off on one, how about you telling us all the good things that Critchley has done this second tenure because I can list a raft of shit that he has got wrong on multiple occasions.

That's just a matter of opinion and in my opinion, it's an opinion that shows a lack of appreciation or understanding of what is needed for a football club to be successful. Over the years I've seen loads of Clubs in very similar situation to ours, go through Manager after Manager (many of whom who have been successful elsewhere). The Manager certainly has a part to play in making sure that we achieve better performances and results on the pitch and he certainly needs to find a solution to winning Away from Home and competing with these tough and physical opponents. As for this raft of shit, our home form is the second best in L1 and so one 'good thing' is that Critchley has made us extremely good at Home. To fail to recognise or appreciate that fact would be completely unfair, but then I suppose it's hard to expect football fans to be remotely rational.

 

[basilexile]

I'm talking about a whole range of things...

Fan's Groups and the way they interact with Social Media
Individual Fans on Social Media
Fan's Behaviour in the Ground
Fan's Behaviour outside the Ground
Fan's attitude towards the Manager(s)
Fan's interactions with the Club / Owner



That's just a matter of opinion and in my opinion, it's an opinion that shows a lack of appreciation or understanding of what is needed for a football club to be successful. Over the years I've seen loads of Clubs in very similar situation to ours, go through Manager after Manager (many of whom who have been successful elsewhere). The Manager certainly has a part to play in making sure that we achieve better performances and results on the pitch and he certainly needs to find a solution to winning Away from Home and competing with these tough and physical opponents. As for this raft of shit, our home form is the second best in L1 and so one 'good thing' is that Critchley has made us extremely good at Home. To fail to recognise or appreciate that fact would be completely unfair, but then I suppose it's hard to expect football fans to be remotely rational.

Out of interest is the home form based on percentages, or skewed by having played so many home games?

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Out of interest is the home form based on percentages, or skewed by having played so many home games?

It's skewed by having played slightly more home games (one or two) more than others. If it was based on Points per Game, then we'd be third instead of second, so it makes no difference really.

 

[straightatthewall]

I would pick up on a couple of points here mate, because I'm not entirely in agreement with you here.

Whilst I don't think the club are 'totally disconnected' from the fans, there is almost certainly a disconnect and I really don't think that the Club really get it. There's almost certainly a resistance from the Club to engage wholeheartedly in open and frank communication with the supporters and they have adopted a very guarded approach.

In addition I'd also argue that there isn't a clear strategy.... if there is one, then what is it? , because I'll be damned if it has been coherently communicated to the fans. There may be some vague talk of player development and sustainability, but I've certainly not seen anything that would constitute a vision for our future that we can collectively get behind... If that were the case, then I think the Managers job would be much easier, I also think fans might find it easier to mentally process some of the more challenging times... That strategy also needs to be backed up with proper open and honest communication...

A great example in terms of communication is the whole three at the back thing....

Radio Lancs have just raised the question in an interview, but it's an obvious point of contention... So Why not answer these questions head on... We have a Media Platform, yet it gets used for videos of players stacking fuck-ing doughnuts or talking shit on a sofa, instead of getting down to the crux of what fans actually want to hear.

If fans could see that sat behind the whole 3 at the back is a longer term vision of a better style of football.... If they could maybe understand why there might be short term inconsistencies, if they could understand that maybe we might still need to recruit players to fit and lose players that don't and have more insight into where the vision is actually trying to take us, then they might be more resilient to the ups and downs etc...

The same can be said about the Training Ground or the East Stand.... Yes, fans can be needy, but to fail to grasp the extent of interest and requirement for proper and regular informed updates is to fail to understand how football fans tick.... Jeez, I can remember people literally sat on Back Henry Street with camping chairs and sandwiches, simply sat watching the development of the new stand. These developments are a matter of huge significance and great pride for our supporters, the ground capacity matters, knowing that we are making progress matters.... And yet the Club and seemingly Simon as a Fan just can't seem to grasp it at all... In fact by contrast, they give the appearance at least that the fans interest or neediness for updates and information, is somewhat of a nuisance. This for me is a massive disconnect....

Now of course, all of these 'perceptions' of mine and of others may be completely wrong, but they are perceptions that are borne out of the way in which the Club is or isn't communicating at this time. If those perceptions are wrong, then the fact that the Club are failing to get there message through is an issue that needs addressing.

I see the club trying to set up Q&A sessions with supporters groups, providing lots modern-day media offerings like Tangerine TV, interviews, community-based work etc. Not all of it will be to everyone's taste, interests or (in the case of Q&A sessions) liking, but they are doing these things. The club has also put in a lot of effort to improve the match day experience, like the Moretti club or whatever its called. The problem with looking for 'wholehearted engagement with frank communication' is that a) it will never be enough for some and b) the answers will just as likely piss people off as make them more engaged. There's ample proof to support that over the years. A frank view might say that the goal for a season is consolidation. A frank view might say that while the budget is competitive in absolute terms, concessions need to be made by the coach in managing playing time. It's a hiding to nothing.

Is the current relationship perfect? No. Are people making an effort to try and do the right thing in terms of the relationship between club and supporter? I'd say they were. But just like with on the pitch efforts, some you win, some you have to go back to the drawing board and start again.

Regarding strategy, I feel there's been enough said and done to show the type of recruitment/player development we feel is needed to grow the club and also there has been plenty of discussion around the 2 big investments off the pitch. I get that people would like to hear more about the training ground or East stand. But what if there's no movement on either? Would that create a positive reaction and bring club and supporters closer? Almost certainly not. Hertford Peter can't see us lose a game without telling the world he knew Sadler was a bad owner from Day 1. I imagine he'd be on the verge of a high school gun massacre if SS came out and said 'East stand is currently delayed because the cost of building it is 5 times what is was when we first started planning'.
I guess we can argue that stating our goals and the vision is positive - but would it actually appease people if results don't go our way on the pitch? We both know the answer to that.

Again, the idea that Critcho is given a platform to explain the 3 at the back philosophy (or something similar in terms of our footballing goals) is great on paper, less so in the real world. It wouldn't make any difference because people's minds are made up in most cases. In the summer, I heard a great interview with Gareth Southgate - on Test Match Special as it happens - where GS gave a really interesting overview of his process and grand plan as manager of the England team. One of his points was that he had loyalty to Maguire because he, John Stones and Kyle Walker had all grown up in the same area and had some established bonds and relationships beyond being international teammates. That made them a better unit. To me that made great sense and displayed the level of thinking and planning being applied. When I relayed the story to football fans the reaction was typically, 'Maguire's shit. I'm better than him!' etc. or 'Southgate is holding us back...' Tenuous link to us? Possibly, but it underlines the point that few would be happy if shit first team results were (apparently) offset by the academy teams beating all-comers and developing strongly using the system.

The club can do better, but its flaws are being blown way out of proportion, mainly through a very natural feeling of being pissed off that we had a cracking couple of seasons followed by a shit heap last year and mediocrity this.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

I see the club trying to set up Q&A sessions with supporters groups, providing lots modern-day media offerings like Tangerine TV, interviews, community-based work etc. Not all of it will be to everyone's taste, interests or (in the case of Q&A sessions) liking, but they are doing these things. The club has also put in a lot of effort to improve the match day experience, like the Moretti club or whatever its called. The problem with looking for 'wholehearted engagement with frank communication' is that a) it will never be enough for some and b) the answers will just as likely piss people off as make them more engaged. There's ample proof to support that over the years. A frank view might say that the goal for a season is consolidation. A frank view might say that while the budget is competitive in absolute terms, concessions need to be made by the coach in managing playing time. It's a hiding to nothing

Is the current relationship perfect? No. Are people making an effort to try and do the right thing in terms of the relationship between club and supporter? I'd say they were. But just like with on the pitch efforts, some you win, some you have to go back to the drawing board and start again.

Regarding strategy, I feel there's been enough said and done to show the type of recruitment/player development we feel is needed to grow the club and also there has been plenty of discussion around the 2 big investments off the pitch. I get that people would like to hear more about the training ground or East stand. But what if there's no movement on either? Would that create a positive reaction and bring club and supporters closer? Almost certainly not. Hertford Peter can't see us lose a game without telling the world he knew Sadler was a bad owner from Day 1. I imagine he'd be on the verge of a high school gun massacre if SS came out and said 'East stand is currently delayed because the cost of building it is 5 times what is was when we first started planning'.
I guess we can argue that stating our goals and the vision is positive - but would it actually appease people if results don't go our way on the pitch? We both know the answer to that.

Again, the idea that Critcho is given a platform to explain the 3 at the back philosophy (or something similar in terms of our footballing goals) is great on paper, less so in the real world. It wouldn't make any difference because people's minds are made up in most cases. In the summer, I heard a great interview with Gareth Southgate - on Test Match Special as it happens - where GS gave a really interesting overview of his process and grand plan as manager of the England team. One of his points was that he had loyalty to Maguire because he, John Stones and Kyle Walker had all grown up in the same area and had some established bonds and relationships beyond being international teammates. That made them a better unit. To me that made great sense, but I relayed the story to football fans who's reaction was 'Maguire's shit. I'm better than him!' etc. or 'Southgate is holding us back...' Tenuous link to us? Possibly, but it underlines the point that few would be happy if shit first team results were (apparently) offset by the academy teams beating all-comers and developing strongly using the system.

The club can do better, but its flaws are being blown way out of proportion, mainly through a very natural feeling of being pissed off that we had a cracking couple of seasons followed by a shit heap last year and mediocrity this.

The Club are certainly doing some very good things and yes, of course, they have tried to engage with supporters to some extent, but for whatever reason they seem to be missing the mark. A good example is the failure or unwillingness to video or livestream the Supporter Meetings so that the wider fanbase can have proper access to see what is going on. The way in which the Club cautiously controls the subsequent minutes, so as to retain full control of the narrative etc... It all harks back to a similarly guarded Oyston and frankly it just serves to make people concerned and suspicious... What's the problem? What are they scared of? What are they trying to hide ? etc.... (just t be clear that doesn't mean that the current owners are like the Oystons, just that fans are viewing things through that historic lens)

And why should it never being enough for some (a tiny minority) be an excuse for the failure to communicate adequately with all? And why should honest communication need to 'Piss People Off' any more than poor communication? There's ways of communicating frankly and positively.... Crikey you seem to be making excises for a mickey mouse approach just for the sake of it... Why should we try and do anything better, if there's a small chance that doing things better might make things worse.... ?

The current relationship isn't just not perfect mate... It's completely gone to the dogs... That's not to say that the Club hasn't started to reach out recently, but there seems to be a massive gap in terms of what fans are looking for wand what the club seems to be offering.

In terms of Critchley, it was an example, but I'll reiterate that if the Club has a clearer strategy an d if the fan s have a better understanding w=of why we are choosing to do man y of the things we are doing, then they will almost certainly be more willing to stick with the Club when the going gets a bit tough. The fact is that we have nothing at the moment... No Plan, No Clearly Defined Ambition and No understanding Simple as that.... To suggest that having those things would make no difference is beyond ridiculous.... It's literally the way all successful businesses conduct themselves. In terms of Southgate, I think the issue you have there is that his reasoning / justification is really really poor in all honesty and the people you spoke to are absolutely spot on... I mean you wouldn't play your Aunty and Uncle in defence, because they lived together and had a really strong bond, so why the fuck would you play any other shit and out of form player for that reason... It's literally a terrible excuse and highlights what a clueless and wet weapon Southgate can be at times.


You are right that problems will get blown out of proportion when you lose a few games, but this isn't something new and it has been festering for while. As I have alluded to in other posts, there are issues on both sides here..... You seem to be well aware of the issues with the fans and I absolutely agree with your assessment in that regard... Some of the behaviour has been nothing short of pathetic.... I'm not entirely sure though that you are quite as in tune with the other side of the coin here....

 

[straightatthewall]

The Club are certainly doing some very good things and yes, of course, they have tried to engage with supporters to some extent, but for whatever reason they seem to be missing the mark. A good example is the failure or unwillingness to video or livestream the Supporter Meetings so that the wider fanbase can have proper access to see what is going on. The way in which the Club cautiously controls the subsequent minutes, so as to retain full control of the narrative etc... It all harks back to a similarly guarded Oyston and frankly it just serves to make people concerned and suspicious... What's the problem? What are they scared of? What are they trying to hide ? etc...

And why should it never being enough for some (a tiny minority) be an excuse for the failure to communicate adequately with all? And why should honest communication need to 'Piss People Off' any more than poor communication? There's ways of communicating frankly and positively.... Crikey you seem to be making excises for a mickey mouse approach just for the sake of it... Why should we try and do anything better, if there's a small chance that doing things better might make things worse.... ?

The current relationship isn't just not perfect mate... It's completely gone to the dogs... That's not to say that the Club hasn't started to reach out recently, but there seems to be a massive gap in terms of what fans are looking for wand what the club seems to be offering.

In terms of Critchley, it was an example, but I'll reiterate that if the Club has a clearer strategy an d if the fan s have a better understanding w=of why we are choosing to do man y of the things we are doing, then they will almost certainly be more willing to stick with the Club when the going gets a bit tough. The fact is that we have nothing at the moment... No Plan, No Clearly Defined Ambition and No understanding Simple as that.... To suggest that having those things would make no difference is beyond ridiculous.... It's literally the way all successful businesses conduct themselves. In terms of Southgate, I think the issue you have there is that his reasoning / justification is really really poor in all honesty and the people you spoke to are absolutely spot on... I mean you wouldn't play your Aunty and Uncle in defence, because they lived together and had a really strong bond, so why the fuck would you play any other shit and out of form player for that reason... It's literally a terrible excuse and highlights what a clueless and wet weapon Southgate can be at times.


You are right that problems will get blown out of proportion when you lose a few games, but this isn't something new and it has been festering for while. As I have alluded to in other posts, there are issues on both sides here..... You seem to be well aware of the issues with the fans and I absolutely agree with your assessment in that regard... Some of the behaviour has been nothing short of pathetic.... I'm not entirely sure though that you are quite as in tune with the other side of the coin here....

You could well be right regarding how in tune I am. To be honest, I don't really care about how the club does or doesn't communicate right now. They're doing some OK stuff and have made mistakes too. But the intent is there to make the club better, which is really good enough for me. I disagree about the gap between what fans want and what the club gives them. We're still getting told more or less what we - and supporters of other clubs - typically get told.
To my view, I see mountains being made out of mole hills and people looking for conspiracies where there are none. Sometimes it's right to be proactive stop the mystery, sometimes it makes no difference because the 'nutters' will find something wherever they can anyway and you're effectively trying to reason with idiots...Much like the tattoos are dawn fiasco...

The truth here is that if we were top of the league, nobody would give a shit about other stuff and if someone chirped up about demanding a training ground update they'd be scoffed at for being a negative nelly.

One point though - how do you know there is 'No Plan, No Clearly Defined Ambition and No understanding'?
I'm pretty sure this years plan was to finish as high in the table as possible. Does the club need to state a position?
As for the years after that, I reckon they'll be aiming for the same.
I'm sure that we plan to do that through a combination of smart recruiting of either experienced, proven players for the level and players with the ability to develop so we get added value beyond the short-term. Some of those players will be ours, some will be loanees.

All of that is pretty clear to me, so I don't need a mission statement and quarterly updates to keep reminding me unless it changes.

The plan off the pitch is to build a training ground and a proper East stand. Both of which - naturally - carry some added complications, but given the business cycle that SS has had to work through whilst this has been happening, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that it's still at the forefront of his plans. If we're still here in 5 years time saying 'where is it?' then we can start telling him to put up or piss off.

By 'No understanding' do you mean understanding of what supporters want? I might be inclined to agree there.

Fair point re Southgate

 

[JJpool]

It is certainly very strange that we have these people like Winter and Downes and we never hear a dickie bird from anybody. Clear disconnect.

He was on the preview show the other week...

 

[DreadPool]

Well potting Critchley then a statement from Sadler on the club and what’s happening in the future would be a start.

Sadly neither is going to happen so buckle up folks for the bumpy ride ahead.

You support Fleetwood so why are you arsed ????

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

You could well be right regarding how in tune I am. To be honest, I don't really care about how the club does or doesn't communicate right now. They're doing some OK stuff and have made mistakes too. But the intent is there to make the club better, which is really good enough for me. I disagree about the gap between what fans want and what the club gives them. We're still getting told more or less what we - and supporters of other clubs - typically get told.
To my view, I see mountains being made out of mole hills and people looking for conspiracies where there are none. Sometimes it's right to be proactive stop the mystery, sometimes it makes no difference because the 'nutters' will find something wherever they can anyway and you're effectively trying to reason with idiots...Much like the tattoos are dawn fiasco...

The truth here is that if we were top of the league, nobody would give a shit about other stuff and if someone chirped up about demanding a training ground update they'd be scoffed at for being a negative nelly.

One point though - how do you know there is 'No Plan, No Clearly Defined Ambition and No understanding'?
I'm pretty sure this years plan was to finish as high in the table as possible. Does the club need to state a position?
As for the years after that, I reckon they'll be aiming for the same.
I'm sure that we plan to do that through a combination of smart recruiting of either experienced, proven players for the level and players with the ability to develop so we get added value beyond the short-term. Some of those players will be ours, some will be loanees.

All of that is pretty clear to me, so I don't need a mission statement and quarterly updates to keep reminding me unless it changes.

The plan off the pitch is to build a training ground and a proper East stand. Both of which - naturally - carry some added complications, but given the business cycle that SS has had to work through whilst this has been happening, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that it's still at the forefront of his plans. If we're still here in 5 years time saying 'where is it?' then we can start telling him to put up or piss off.

By 'No understanding' do you mean understanding of what supporters want? I might be inclined to agree there.

Fair point re Southgate

For every 'tattoos at dawn' there's a 'poison pen letter at supper' and so it has gone on. It's not an area I particularly want to elaborate on so much on here to be honest, but I hope you'll trust me when I say that the situation has been far from ideal and that it absolutely needs to change, because the relationship is extremely unhealthy, regardless of the visible 'meetings'.

I think you're right to some extent about trying to reason with idiots and I'd also agree with you that some of the behaviour has been pretty idiotic, I've said as much in this thread. In fact it was a significant part of the thrust of my OP.... The Fan Groups need to sort their own shit out and start behaving like mature adults...

I agree that if we were top of the league that nobody would care, but being 'Top of the League' is a rare occurrence at a Football Club and it's important to build resilience into your plans and your fanbase to help you through the more challenging times. In the past, Blackpool Fans have been very supportive and very understanding through some pretty tough times... That certainly isn't the case at the moment and that mean that we are not giving the Team or the Manager the best platform to succeed.

I would like to hope that there is a Plan somewhere, but there certainly isn't a clearly defined vision for the future of Blackpool F.C. that has been communicated to our fanbase. The fact that you are 'pretty sure' that this years 'plan' was to 'finish as high up the table as possible' kind of emphasises that really ... don't you think?

It's great to know that you 'reckon they'll be aiming for the same' in the future seasons and I'm sure some people will find that very reassuring, but nonetheless, that isn't a communicated vision or a plan either, it's just something you've kind of made up in your own head. Of course, you are an intelligent bloke and reasonably positive in your outlook, so you've filled in the gaps (or the massive big gaping hole to put it more accurately) and made up your own version of a possible vision that the club might ideally have if it were you. Unfortunately your own thoughts aren't particularly helpful when it comes to creating a sense of direction togetherness throughout the club and our fanbase, they merely satisfy you for now.

And yes, there's a plan to build an East Stand and a Training Ground, but there isn't a vision of how or why those two things fit in with a long er term vision for the Club... An explanation as to why the Club feels that these developments are important or to be prioritised... No vision of how the East Stand and ground development might seek to meet the demands of a growing fanbase and how we might seek to develop uor fanbase in the future etc.. No vision of how a Training Ground might enable us to attract better quality players, what aspirations we have in terms of our academy and why that approach is likely to be of benefit to Club like ours. Of course, you can try to trivialise that by trying to assimilate it to some kind of David Brent style 'Company Speak' with the reference to Mission Statements etc... but nonetheless a clearly defined vision would certainly give our whole fanbase and our club something to aspire to and to motivate ourselves behind, because right now, what I see is a whole load of people with no clear idea about where we are going, a fanbase that is bored and lacks a sense direction and an owner that maybe doesn't share our collective ambition.

What I mean by no understanding, is that the fans do not have any appreciation of what the club is trying to achieve and are therefore unwilling to give the Club or the Manager any leeway.

 

[Wizaard]

As for everything else, I agree that the club is totally disconnected from the fans. I was reading the statement from BST before and the fan panel that the club what to create where they decide who is on it sounds like they just want the fans that think Sadler is a god and can do no wrong, bit like BSA was for the Oystons.

Don't get wrong me here, I still back Sadler as our owner, but he does seem to have an issue taking any type of criticism from the fans, which is going to cause issues as fans will critises even the best owners in the world. Liverpool were winning the prem and the champions league and they still had a group that wanted FSG gone. Andy Holt at Accrington has done a brilliant job for them and you still have some that want him gone. It just the nature of football.

Right now we need a clear strategy of what the club is going to do moving forward regarding fan engagement as the Seasiders Together thing was just alot of words with no real substance.

The best way to get the fans back on side is to have a word with Critchley and tell him he needs to change formation, that would do wonders for the mood around the club. Also stop getting dragged into petty arguments with fans. Even if the club are in the right, it's not a good look. You don't want to see what a fan is saying, then mute them. That way they don't know they've been muted, they can still see what the club is saying and comment back, but the club doesnt see it. I feel like the club is still very naive is many regards when it comes to social media.

BST have done the opposite of what you're claiming. I thought their response to the plans was asking the club to take a different approach altogether and questioning the strategy as outlined.

 

[Mark_GT]

Just listened to a detailed breakdown of the problems on Radio Lancs. Loads of insights and ideas about what's going wrong and what to do about it.





Unfortunately of course, it's all about T' Rovers

 

[Mexboroseasider]

BST have done the opposite of what you're claiming. I thought their response to the plans was asking the club to take a different approach altogether and questioning the strategy as outlined.

Yes. It was the complete opposite of what was posted.

 

[fcblackpool]

BST have done the opposite of what you're claiming. I thought their response to the plans was asking the club to take a different approach altogether and questioning the strategy as outlined.

What the Club should do is disassociate themselves from all fans groups and tell them to come back with one group that covers all.

the various factions, for want of a better word, would be under the umbrella, eh, eh eh of the main fans group. How that would evolve I don't know.

 

[straightatthewall]

What the Club should do is disassociate themselves from all fans groups and tell them to come back with one group that covers all.

the various factions, for want of a better word, would be under the umbrella, eh, eh eh of the main fans group. How that would evolve I don't know.

It would be as chaotic as it is now because you've more chance of getting Gerry Adams to marry Carol Thatcher (in lieu of Maggie) than get full agreement of who best represents 'us'.

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

You support Fleetwood so why are you arsed ????

Really?

When people start coming out with the Cods comments I always look at it as a sign of desperation for cheap brownie points.

I also support AFC Fylde as well next time you reply.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

It would be as chaotic as it is now because you've more chance of getting Gerry Adams to marry Carol Thatcher (in lieu of Maggie) than get full agreement of who best represents 'us'.

Bang on, but these Fan Groups do need to take a long hard look at themselves and find a way to sort out their egos and approach, because to put it bluntly they are letting us all down right now.

 

[Mexboroseasider]

Bang on, but these Fan Groups do need to take a long hard look at themselves and find a way to sort out their egos and approach, because to put it bluntly they are letting us all down right now.

You are contradicting yourself now.

Either the fans group are a complete irrelevance. Or they have massive influence and are letting us all down. It can’t be both.

I tend to align with Straiters. There’s no way the Naughty Boys are going to “get into bed” with the school swots. And vice versa.

And quite right too. Why should they?

And if your answer is ….. it’s in the interests of the fanbase as a whole…..well then why does any individual poster have the right to dictate what’s in the interest of the fanbase? Or dictate to any fans group (elected or not) what they should be doing?

And as for Sadler. Well he’ll either take on board what people are telling him, decide it has merit and implement it. Or he’ll ignore it. And carry the financial can/reap the financial benefit depending on what he does and what happens.

On a purely personal level, it comes down to the enjoyment/hassle ratio. As an exile every match (home or away) entails a lot of hassle. I’m committed to several matches from hereon, so will probably go to them all unless I get really pissed off or things crop up. I’m not expecting anything BST, the MSG or BASIL do will make much difference. I suspect it’ll be what happens on the pitch and how that impacts the hassle/enjoyment ratio. Which I suppose (in the words of that great philosopher KoKo) makes me fickle.

 

[straightatthewall]

You are contradicting yourself now.

Either the fans group are a complete irrelevance. Or they have massive influence and are letting us all down. It can’t be both.

I tend to align with Straiters. There’s no way the Naughty Boys are going to “get into bed” with the school swots. And vice versa.

And quite right too. Why should they?

And if your answer is ….. it’s in the interests of the fanbase as a whole…..well then why does any individual poster have the right to dictate what’s in the interest of the fanbase? Or dictate to any fans group (elected or not) what they should be doing?

And as for Sadler. Well he’ll either take on board what people are telling him, decide it has merit and implement it. Or he’ll ignore it. And carry the financial can/reap the financial benefit depending on what he does and what happens.

On a purely personal level, it comes down to the enjoyment/hassle ratio. As an exile every match (home or away) entails a lot of hassle. I’m committed to several matches from hereon, so will probably go to them all unless I get really pissed off or things crop up. I’m not expecting anything BST, the MSG or BASIL do will make much difference. I suspect it’ll be what happens on the pitch and how that impacts the hassle/enjoyment ratio. Which I suppose (in the words of that great philosopher KoKo) makes me fickle.

Watching the games on heroin is probably the best way to get through them. Oh sorry, I misread that...

 

[Mexboroseasider]

Watching the games on heroin is probably the best way to get through them. Oh sorry, I misread that...

I generally watch the games through a haze of alcohol. I’m driving tomorrow so won’t have that protection.

Oh dear.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

You are contradicting yourself now.

Either the fans group are a complete irrelevance. Or they have massive influence and are letting us all down. It can’t be both.

I tend to align with Straiters. There’s no way the Naughty Boys are going to “get into bed” with the school swots. And vice versa.

And quite right too. Why should they?

And if your answer is ….. it’s in the interests of the fanbase as a whole…..well then why does any individual poster have the right to dictate what’s in the interest of the fanbase? Or dictate to any fans group (elected or not) what they should be doing?

And as for Sadler. Well he’ll either take on board what people are telling him, decide it has merit and implement it. Or he’ll ignore it. And carry the financial can/reap the financial benefit depending on what he does and what happens.

On a purely personal level, it comes down to the enjoyment/hassle ratio. As an exile every match (home or away) entails a lot of hassle. I’m committed to several matches from hereon, so will probably go to them all unless I get really pissed off or things crop up. I’m not expecting anything BST, the MSG or BASIL do will make much difference. I suspect it’ll be what happens on the pitch and how that impacts the hassle/enjoyment ratio. Which I suppose (in the words of that great philosopher KoKo) makes me fickle.

Sorry.. can you point me to where I said they were a complete irrelevance and let me know how that might be contradictory in any case ?

As an individual fan I think I’m reasonably well placed and intelligent enough to appreciate that our supporter groups engaging in childish spats over social media is probably not really in our collective interests… I’m not sure it takes a genius!!

 

[Mexboroseasider]

Sorry.. can you point me to where I said they were a complete irrelevance and let me know how that might be contradictory in any case ?

An excellent example of how to park egos, clear the air and move forward.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

An excellent example of how to park egos, clear the air and move forward.

So did I say it or not ?

As far as I’m aware I didn’t …. So forgive me if my ego has taken a slight dent and I’m challenging you for completely misinterpreting what I’ve said in order to build up your own burgeoning ego … whilst pissed again, no doubt!!

 

[Mexboroseasider]

So did I say it or not ?

As far as I’m aware I didn’t …. So forgive me if my ego has taken a slight dent and I’m challenging you for completely misinterpreting what I’ve said in order to build up your own burgeoning ego … whilst pissed again, no doubt!!

So we can agree then that fans groups are important (and ignore all the previous criticisms over the last 24 months). Excellent.

And yes. Surprise surprise. I may well have an ego. And yes, being a Friday, I may well have had a drink as well.

Sorry. What was the thread about again?

Oh yes. Being positive and moving the debate forward. Corking.

Well here’s a in hope (rather than expectation) for a good game and good result tomorrow. UTMP

 

[fcblackpool]

It would be as chaotic as it is now because you've more chance of getting Gerry Adams to marry Carol Thatcher (in lieu of Maggie) than get full agreement of who best represents 'us'.

It just needs a reset. From both sides.

I have said this many times before but I' m not interested in Custard Creams or voting status, I'd like the Club to come out and say that they are going to have a Q&A that they have set in stone 3/4 times a year. I'd now like to see an independent gatherer of questions from you, me, the bloke next door, BST, MSG, ABC and these questions asked and mandatory required answered. Just consult the root and branch stakeholders/STH's and let them be the leader.

What % of STH's are in these groups?

The Club seems to be totally lost in this area.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Good O/P. I think the Board need to sit down with BST....yes, BST and talk through the issues. Currently BST don't speak for all fans but it is their critique that is causing a stir. I would have all fans join BST, whilst being allied to other groups. That is what the Club wants and that is what could make us strong. Not fighting among ourselves but being members of BST whilst also being members of Knights, Muckers, Yorkshire Seasiders, BASIL, et al. If we were all allied through BST, then it would be all of our voices being heard.

 

[td53]

It is certainly very strange that we have these people like Winter and Downes and we never hear a dickie bird from anybody. Clear disconnect.

I find this the hardest bit of all in a way. We're literally lower in the league then when we had Terry Mcphillips and Gary Brabin and Phil Horner as basically the football staff. The commercial staff was a skeleton too.

We're spending a shedload on a plethora of positions and roles and yet, I don't really feel like we make entirely clear what it's all for and about.

The danger is, we start sounding like Karl - but it does strike me that football is full of people who will do a 'job' whether that job really is essential or not. I dunno. I'm happy to pay my money on wages for players. I know those players need a coach and a physio but you get to a certain point and wonder 'how many recruitment people, video people, media people, strategy people, finance people does a league 1 club need?'

@Insider made a good point the other day - we don't even have a staff directory on the website. The community trust does. Every job and role and employee is listed there with a picture and what they do.

It's kind of boring and I'm much happier debating why people are wrong about Sonny or whether Critchley is stuck in a kind of weird in between state where his tactics say one thing but his philosophy says another - but there is this sense that the club has transformed into something different and undefined.

 

[Mark_GT]

It would be as chaotic as it is now because you've more chance of getting Gerry Adams to marry Carol Thatcher (in lieu of Maggie) than get full agreement of who best represents 'us'.

That is true. There is also, as we and msg both pointed out the other night, an even bigger constituency of fans who really have zero interest in being represented by any kind of formal group. They can and do have good ideas though. That's something any engagement process has to get right.

 

[td53]

That is true. There is also, as we and msg both pointed out the other night, an even bigger constituency of fans who really have zero interest in being represented by any kind of formal group. They can and do have good ideas though. That's something any engagement process has to get right.

The only solution there is a new group

Completely
Unaligned
Neutral
Tangerine
Supporters.

I can see no flaw there.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

So we can agree then that fans groups are important (and ignore all the previous criticisms over the last 24 months). Excellent.

And yes. Surprise surprise. I may well have an ego. And yes, being a Friday, I may well have had a drink as well.

Sorry. What was the thread about again?

Oh yes. Being positive and moving the debate forward. Corking.

Well here’s a in hope (rather than expectation) for a good game and good result tomorrow. UTMP

We can agree that Fan Groups abusing other Fan Groups on Social Media or fighting and squabbling with each other is less desirable than grown up communication and trying to show some kind of combined front on matters that concern the rest of us.

I certainly wouldn’t want to ignore any of the criticisms, because many of them have played a part in where we now find ourselves.

The thread isn’t about ‘being positive and moving the debate forward’

The thread asks a question as to how we can ‘Clear the Air & Move Forward’… The reason that I used the term ‘Clear the Air’ was because I don’t just think this is about simply ‘being positive’, but rather, finding a platform / way in which the Club and Fans can resolve some of the grievances and find a way to put them behind us… That’s likely to involve some challenging discussions and a change in attitudes if we’re to move forward successfully..

 

[hertfordseasider]

I find this the hardest bit of all in a way. We're literally lower in the league then when we had Terry Mcphillips and Gary Brabin and Phil Horner as basically the football staff. The commercial staff was a skeleton too.

We're spending a shedload on a plethora of positions and roles and yet, I don't really feel like we make entirely clear what it's all for and about.

The danger is, we start sounding like Karl - but it does strike me that football is full of people who will do a 'job' whether that job really is essential or not. I dunno. I'm happy to pay my money on wages for players. I know those players need a coach and a physio but you get to a certain point and wonder 'how many recruitment people, video people, media people, strategy people, finance people does a league 1 club need?'

@Insider made a good point the other day - we don't even have a staff directory on the website. The community trust does. Every job and role and employee is listed there with a picture and what they do.

It's kind of boring and I'm much happier debating why people are wrong about Sonny or whether Critchley is stuck in a kind of weird in between state where his tactics say one thing but his philosophy says another - but there is this sense that the club has transformed into something different and undefined.

I was thinking the same and I wonder if Sadler, who has clearly swallowed the corporate bullshit manuel because of his financial business, believes that filling the place with numbers nerds and analytical this and the stats that has forgotten the most important thing, the heart of the club, the old boiler that fires the passion. I Don’t get the vibe of any passion whatsoever from him because of what you said in your post and he then only employs managers who fit his philosophy which means we get a squad full of players lacking in any leaders , characters, the place really is more like an accountancy business than a football club and I’m not sure Sadler is capable or even willing to change that.

 

[td53]

I was thinking the same and I wonder if Sadler, who has clearly swallowed the corporate bullshit manuel because of his financial business, believe that filling the place with numbers nerds and analytical this ans stats that has forgotten the most important thing, the heart of the club, the old boiler that flies the passion. I Don get the vibe f any passion whatsoever from him because of what you said in your post and he then only employs managers who fit his philosophy which means we get a squad full of players lacking in any leaders , characters, the place really is more like an accountancy business than a football club and I’m not sure Sadler is capable or even willing to change that.

I don't really know what the place is like. That's kind of the point. People make assumptions based on heresay.

To be fair, we had a lot of character on the pitch not so long ago. Uncle Richard and wor Gaz weren't 'identikit nerd' footballers. Mad Mick wasn't exactly a bland 'yes man' type either.

 

[hertfordseasider]

I don't really know what the place is like. That's kind of the point. People make assumptions based on heresay.

To be fair, we had a lot of character on the pitch not so long ago. Uncle Richard and wor Gaz weren't 'identikit nerd' footballers. Mad Mick wasn't exactly a bland 'yes man' type either.

No, he was just shit?

 

[Insider]

I think I've over-dosed on this now.
Roll on tomorrow and a game of football.

 

[td53]

I think I've over-dosed on this now.
Roll on tomorrow and a game of football.

Game's cancelled - it's getting in the way of the real business of internecine squabbling. Everyone remotely connected to the club is instead summoned to the windmill at 3pm for a mass rumble to sort out once and for all who is best at life and that.

 

[td53]

No, he was just shit?

To be honest, in my head he's a kind of legend. I adored the man. His football management less so.

It can't get any worse, can it Mick?

Oh... It can...

 

[Insider]

Game's cancelled - it's getting in the way of the real business of internecine squabbling. Everyone remotely connected to the club is instead summoned to the windmill at 3pm for a mass rumble to sort out once and for all who is best at life and that.

Don't tempt fate.
Peterborough's game was postponed mid-week for a waterlogged pitch. Not sure what the weather has been like down there subsequently.