You can look at it that way. As I see it, Owen used all interactions at the time to simply play games.
He's making a right tit of himself. Baffling.
Circle the Wagons
He was so deluded that he left that room thinking everyone in there had already bought season tickets for the coming season according to someone who accompanied him that day
I think some believe Owen to be this incredible strategist who was playing the fans and BST like a fiddle, mostly because of that one statement he made regarding the proposed bid which was written pretty coherently. Listening to people close to him however, it seems that perspective is quite far from the truth. In reality, he was totally deluded in his thinking and completely unable to realise what was happening around him, never knowing the danger he was in. He isolated himself to an extreme degree. Even in the court case, when everyone around him was begging for him to settle - family members pleading with him - he was sure he would win. It cost him more money than he could ever have imagined he would have had to pay. It was a crushing, devastating loss and it could have been avoided at so many steps.He was so deluded that he left that room thinking everyone in there had already bought season tickets for the coming season according to someone who accompanied him that day
Dearie me. That’s a shame.
I was convinced at the time ( as we’re others ) that he planned to come with something to try to break the boycott but as we know he didn’t
He's got one?
His objective at and around that time was largely about trying to undermine the integrity of the Trust and the collective will of the fans.He was so deluded that he left that room thinking everyone in there had already bought season tickets for the coming season according to someone who accompanied him that day
I think at the time that was the worst of it foggy.
Thanks insider. I remember her standing up and saying what a wonderful person Owen was.
Attendees included Jimmy Armfield, who was standing at the back of the room.
Yes there was a character from memory called Badabing who kept shouting out every few minutes and trying to come across as an urban warrior and he completely ruined the whole thing SPS. He put the cause back several steps they say and received a sound thrashing outside afterwards from the BST Top Table. I assume that is in Foggy’s book but I haven’t got a copy to check.
You and Phil would probably contest the shade of Magnolia!
This is the best ride...
The heckling was an absolute joke and completely ruined the event, whilst also giving Owen the opportunity to avoid questions.
was! Great book and can’t wait for the Netflix series!
The FPG I'd forgotten all about that nonsense, they themselves probably hope everyone's forgotten !I was convinced at the time ( as we’re others ) that he planned to come with something to try to break the boycott but as we know he didn’t
Indeed when I asked for a show of hands over STs to try to provide a visual demonstration of how many were boycotting he thought the full room putting their hands up first was how many were current ST holders
The heckling didn’t help - gave him too much opportunity to evade questions
Personally I found that more frustrating than his stalling
How many times did we get ‘ Will you let me finish ! ‘
Don’t agree that all interaction with Owen was a mistake
Firstly the Hilton meet ultimately showed him for what he was - many hadn’t heard him speak until then
Not sure it was for the BST committee to deny everyone that opportunity to hear him and / or to see what he might bring to the table
He might for instance have agreed to stop suing fans ( he did actually say that but only meant new claims not existing ones ) or to disband the FPG
It’s to get recalled that later the work J4F did to stop the suing also involved meeting him and ultimately that worked
I have independent sourcing that confirm Karl was in huge screaming matches with Owen before the trial, pleading with him to just listen to the lawyers. But Owen was trying to write the defence himself. It was the only thing keeping them together and once Owen lost Karl and the rest of his family just wanted him to pay up and accept his loss. As soon as they realised he was going to fail to follow the court order and drag his heels, Karl wanted none of it and sent the the email which ended their relationship, where he essentially offered up dirt on him to the Latvians. But what he was really doing was trying to separate him from his father. Karl said he tried to put the club up for sale the next day, Owen blocked it.
I think you need to give credit where it’s due and it’s a decent read… I don’t think you can take anything away from that. I really enjoyed it as a piece of literature, though of course the small inaccuracies I am aware of did leave me wondering about the accuracy of the stuff I wasn’t. That said…. I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.
What an odd post. We've been having a very nice discussion about the book these last couple of pages. I suspect you are hoping to change that with your return.
Why don’t you & Bfc x 3 write a sequel.
And there will be many who have not yet bought the book but intend to
I think it has probably become obvious to everyone, but Owen that a settlement was the wise way to go, so I can understand that would have been a source of frustration for Karl.
I’ve more or less written one on this thread…Why don’t you & Bfc x 3 write a sequel.
In terms of suing fans, I suspected exactly the same thing. But the truth is, I had sources who were there, who aren't connected to Karl, who were adamant he did advise Owen against it. Karl described himself as an 'attack dog', but I aimed to counter this in the book by saying 'but it was a role he greatly enjoyed'. It's clear from his involvement the rest of the way he was a very willing participant and told Owen that once they started, he wouldn't let it stop. So I dont think he comes across reluctantly at all, but I do believe it is true he advised against it originally.
You must be one of the most forgiving people in the world for acting politely and sitting down with someone who you had to pay thousands out to. I would have thumped him tbh if that had happened to me.Fair play to you.I was convinced at the time ( as we’re others ) that he planned to come with something to try to break the boycott but as we know he didn’t
Indeed when I asked for a show of hands over STs to try to provide a visual demonstration of how many were boycotting he thought the full room putting their hands up first was how many were current ST holders
The heckling didn’t help - gave him too much opportunity to evade questions
Personally I found that more frustrating than his stalling
How many times did we get ‘ Will you let me finish ! ‘
Don’t agree that all interaction with Owen was a mistake
Firstly the Hilton meet ultimately showed him for what he was - many hadn’t heard him speak until then
Not sure it was for the BST committee to deny everyone that opportunity to hear him and / or to see what he might bring to the table
He might for instance have agreed to stop suing fans ( he did actually say that but only meant new claims not existing ones ) or to disband the FPG
It’s to get recalled that later the work J4F did to stop the suing also involved meeting him and ultimately that worked
ExactlyI’ve more or less written one on this thread…
I've heard recording of him in a mediation meeting and he was certainly nasty. I would imagine that it would be a bit terrifying being sat there knowing the money at stake, not that Raggy was the slightest bit intimidated though!
He certainly comes / came across as a pretty mixed up individual really. His behaviour was almost childlike on occasions. I think his ‘Attack Dog’ is possibly being kind to himself, as for me he and Sam came across more like Kevin and Perry
To be honest it was your sly comments and the veiled threat from who i think is your brother that turned this thread back on Friday
Ah yes, I suppose I’m thinking more of his other persona. The childlike wind up merchant / silly public schoolboy.
I think if you were feeding back in good faith we could have continued a discussion, but you listed two "inaccuracies" originally, one of which you made up. It appears you can offer criticism but can't take it yourself. If you were genuinely interested in a real discussion about the book, I find it quite bizarre you still haven't responded to my several attempts to ask you where I mentioned the Knights in the Derby protest - I believe this might be my 4th or 5th attempt now. If you have such a genuine concern about accuracy, surely you would be relieved to know the issue was just because you misread it?
I remember watching it thinking, The man has lost the plot and there is absolutely no way out for him. . I think he thought he could start and start a publicity campaign against those nasty people heckling a frail old man. We all saw through it, his time had come to leave. Thankfully.He was so deluded that he left that room thinking everyone in there had already bought season tickets for the coming season according to someone who accompanied him that day
Yeah, that is a contradiction in a sense. Although, I think Owen was genuinely upset and offended by what was said about him (thin skin) - whereas Karl probably enjoyed the arguments. I think he saw it as sport, and believed every single fan was thick as mince and he was smarter. I don't think Steve Smith genuinely upset him, although he may have had him rattled a bit - I just think Karl went back and forth like that with whoever wanted it and for some inexplicable reason didn't account for the fact those texts could be leaked. Karl likes to argue, and will happily delve into the depths. Owen took it more personally and wanted to shut people up.
Psychologically, it amounts to the same thing. In both instances the comments had gotten (forgive the Americanism, whoever it was) under their skin. People tend to argue because their ego is threatened.
Well you're correct he's not authentic, I think that's 100% clear. The ease of which he lies, covers up with new lies when called out, and misrepresents his own actions - was frankly scary. I've never know anyone quite like it, and I'm glad it's not a skill I have. It's why I relied on 3rd party sourcing where necessary, like for his role in the libel cases.
Here you go again being rude
You said the book makes out BST and the Knights organised protests that you didn't think they did. When someone asked you which ones you are talking about, you said "the Derby one for a start". But I didn't mention the Knights or BST at Derby. This is something you've just misread. I'm not being rude, it's a fact you made that up.
I think the difficulty for BST at the time was they had rightly positioned themselves as a more considered organisation and were perhaps struggling to some extent to find their place in a rapidly changing environment.
Here you go again being rude
