Hypothetical situation - interested in your thoughts

S

straightatthewall

Well-known member
OK, so this is the scenario.

A flat with separate garage is sold in 2010. In 2023, the people who bought the flat in 2010 are trying to sell. Surveys reveal that the garage wasn't sold - i.e. ownership remained with the people who sold in 2010 even though they thought they'd sold flat and garage. The solicitors for those trying to sell the flat get in touch to say, this is still owned by the original sellers and ownership needs to be transferred to allow the current owners to sell.

All clear?

SO:

If you were the people who owned the garage, what would you do next?

1) Sell the garage to the existing owners/potential buyers for the current market value?
2) Show goodwill and allow the sale to go through with some possible small compensation?
3) Do it for free?
4) Something else?
 
Sounds like a massive omission on the part of the conveyancing solicitors in 2010, either to include the garage in the sale or expressly exclude it.

If it was part of the original agreement, I'd hope the 2010 sellers honour that agreement and go with 3
 
As above it’s a huge error by the conveyance process in 2010. But the seller needs to recover those costs from the solicitor independently. Meanwhile the land registry is pretty much final: that is the purpose of it.
 
cside said:
As above it’s a huge error by the conveyance process in 2010. But the seller needs to recover those costs from the solicitor independently. Meanwhile the land registry is pretty much final: that is the purpose of it.
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The land registry has no part in the equation……I am agreeing in my answer to allow it to be transferred to the people who it should have been trfd to….the land registry are just doing the admin
 
I'd certainly be looking at the professional indemnity route if I was the 2010 buyer.

Might be worth a discussion direct between the buyer and seller to try and agree a fair way forward. A professional indemnity claim could cover the cost in full of the buyer procuring the garage at 2023 prices, leaving both buyer and seller with the value of the sale in both their pockets once the 2023 sale is concluded.
 
I'm with the Biffster on this one....it's negligence on the part of the original conveyancing solicitor who handled the purchase as they (and I struggle to see why land registry didnt flag this up) missed the garage when it was being sold.

The previous owners (should) could request a payment based on the cost of a garage not being included in sale and the increase in value
The legal costs and purchase costs in the original and subsequent sale.

Add all this together and the fact that both selling and purchase solicitor mucked up the sale....I'm sure there's blame.....so there is a decent claim
 
From the seller's P.O.V, it depends entirely upon what's in the contract.

From the buyer's P.O.V, it depends upon what's in the contract, but with a potential P.I. claim against their solicitors depending upon what they were told.
 
It may not be as simple as ‘what is in the contract’. If the garage was specifically excluded, then that’s clear cut, if it’s been omitted and everything else points to an agreement/ commitment to include, then I’d imagine there might be some wiggle room?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It may not be as simple as ‘what is in the contract’. If the garage was specifically excluded, then that’s clear cut, if it’s been omitted and everything else points to an agreement/ commitment to include, then I’d imagine there might be some wiggle room?
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In this 'hypothetical' 😉 situation...the garage was supposed to have been included in the sale of 2010. The sellers in 2010 had no idea the transfer of ownership hadn't happened. But 'hypothetically' the land registry is suggesting that the last sale of the garage was in 2000, when the 2010 sellers bought the flat and garage.
 
Are we not being a bit quick to blame the solicitors here by some .

We don’t know the facts .

How do we know the buyers solicitors were aware there was a garage included in the sale if it’s seperate ?

Seperate plot seperate conveyance probably.

Like most things on here people jumping to conclusions without knowing full details .

I had same issue when I bought a flat with a parking space . Deal done with the seller for both.

Flat transferred to me.

Few weeks later I got a letter from my solicitor saying sellers solicitor has got in touch asking if I want to buy the parking space for £25 k ?

I said give over the parking space was included here’s the sales particulars .

He got straight on to the sellers solicitors and it was transferred no charge seller trying was trying it on.

Have to get up early to get one over on me i tell thee !

Happens all the time with flats apparently.

No one should be profiting from the o/p’s scenario.
 
straightatthewall said:
In this 'hypothetical' 😉 situation...the garage was supposed to have been included in the sale of 2010. The sellers in 2010 had no idea the transfer of ownership hadn't happened. But 'hypothetically' the land registry is suggesting that the last sale of the garage was in 2000, when the 2010 sellers bought the flat and garage.
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Funnily enough I’ve just concluded a sale where the situation was similar. Sometimes the Land Registry details don’t get updated.

The Land Registry record isn’t the determining factor, when it comes to the Legal Ownership.
 
As I make my way through life, I try to stick to a simple, but remarkably useful motto, “Don’t be a dick”.

In this instance it would guide me to option 3 with very little thought.

There are many ways to make a quick buck in life, but very few of them will help you get to sleep at night.
 
AngelBFC said:
Are we not being a bit quick to blame the solicitors here by some .

We don’t know the facts .

How do we know the buyers solicitors were aware there was a garage included in the sale if it’s seperate ?

Seperate plot seperate conveyance probably.

Like most things on here people jumping to conclusions without knowing full details .

I had same issue when I bought a flat with a parking space . Deal done with the seller for both.

Flat transferred to me.

Few weeks later I got a letter from my solicitor saying sellers solicitor has got in touch asking if I want to buy the parking space for £25 k ?

I said give over the parking space was included here’s the sales particulars .

He got straight on to the sellers solicitors and it was transferred no charge seller trying was trying it on.

Have to get up early to get one over on me i tell thee !

Happens all the time with flats apparently.

No one should be profiting from the o/p’s scenario.
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I blame Tom Folding!! 😂😂
 
straightatthewall said:
In this 'hypothetical' 😉 situation...the garage was supposed to have been included in the sale of 2010. The sellers in 2010 had no idea the transfer of ownership hadn't happened. But 'hypothetically' the land registry is suggesting that the last sale of the garage was in 2000, when the 2010 sellers bought the flat and garage.
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Is this a case of the transfer of ownership simply hasn't been registered at the LR, or have the contracts been incorrectly prepared so that the garage was never legally transferred?

The former is simple to solve, the latter might be a PI claim against someone.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Is this a case of the transfer of ownership simply hasn't been registered at the LR, or have the contracts been incorrectly prepared so that the garage was never legally transferred?

The former is simple to solve, the latter might be a PI claim against someone.
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The former.

To be honest, I also recognise the simplicity of resolving, i was more interested in the moral/ethical 'dilemma' of how to react to it as the previous sellers are (apparently) still the owners of the garage and (in theory) would be entitled to sell at current market value if they wished. Wouldn't be something I would do and seems like most AVFTTers are the same.
 
straightatthewall said:
The former.

To be honest, I also recognise the simplicity of resolving, i was more interested in the moral/ethical 'dilemma' of how to react to it as the previous sellers are (apparently) still the owners of the garage and (in theory) would be entitled to sell at current market value if they wished. Wouldn't be something I would do and seems like most AVFTTers are the same.
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I think, were the previous owners to do that, it would amount to fraud, because legally, whatever the LR says, the garage belongs to the buyer.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I think, were the previous owners to do that, it would amount to fraud, because legally, whatever the LR says, the garage belongs to the buyer.
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Lost,

Not disagreeing with you there as I don't know the law. But that point - if correct - was another reason I asked the OP. To try and understand if there is was a reason to mean 1) cannot be done anyway 👍
 
hertfordseasider said:
I blame Tom Folding!! 😂😂
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You wont get the legals on here, they are not getting paid.
Buying another property at the moment and the solicitors are pestering me for search fees. Told them I will forward fees when/if survey/valuation comes back ok with no major issues. Next day pestering me again for fees and said it will speed up process. Asked how long average exchange takes and they said three months. No wonder they are raking it in.
 
todayistheday said:
You wont get the legals on here, they are not getting paid.
Buying another property at the moment and the solicitors are pestering me for search fees. Told them I will forward fees when/if survey/valuation comes back ok with no major issues. Next day pestering me again for fees and said it will speed up process. Asked how long average exchange takes and they said three months. No wonder they are raking it in.
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Are you paying hourly or fixed fee ?

When you say they are raking it in how much are they charging you ?
 
straightatthewall said:
OK, so this is the scenario.

A flat with separate garage is sold in 2010. In 2023, the people who bought the flat in 2010 are trying to sell. Surveys reveal that the garage wasn't sold - i.e. ownership remained with the people who sold in 2010 even though they thought they'd sold flat and garage. The solicitors for those trying to sell the flat get in touch to say, this is still owned by the original sellers and ownership needs to be transferred to allow the current owners to sell.

All clear?

SO:

If you were the people who owned the garage, what would you do next?

1) Sell the garage to the existing owners/potential buyers for the current market value?
2) Show goodwill and allow the sale to go through with some possible small compensation?
3) Do it for free?
4) Something else?
Click to expand...
4) Something else. Sell at half the market value is the fairest way. That way, the current owners get half and the new owners get it at half price.
 
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